Glanz,

I suggest you post directly your concerns to the 'fink-users' list.

Maybe there, they will help you clarify any issues that you might have or misunderstand about Fink.

I do not believe it would do any good. "Unstable"
should not mean "unuseable".... Perhaps instead of an "unstable" tree they should have an "unuseable tree" LOL :)

Anyway, I still like Fink....

Seems I'm stuck either way.
 

Right now after the last selfupdate-cvs and update-all I'm stuck. Gnome is working fine but Enlightenment has no (visible) widgets. If I revert to older imlib then Enlightenment looks fine but Gnome looses all its icons.:(

Also now control-center build crashes Fink Commander. Builds ok on command line but right in the middle puts up some garbage chars.
Fink info shows maintainer none.

I believe the problem is libpng3 not being recognized as replacing libpng. Not all the Gnome stuff has been updated yet to recognize it. My current solution is wait and see and if not resolved soon to disable unstable and rebuild things (everything runs its just not pretty)
My opinion is the major version number name change was a good idea when only a few things were dependent on say an application. Maybe not such an easy solution when lots of stuff is dependant on a library.

I have a Reason not to be grumpy.
Willy
ps.
My email is messed up till I get imap running. So I can send on one account (webmail) but not receive. And receive on another but not send (says I'm not a member). Anyway I don't have email on my current DSL account till I set up imap. So I'm getting all the fink users list stuff but can't post without going back to the 56k modem.

Quoted from the FAQs at the Fink site:

<<First make sure you understand what 'unstable' means. Packages in there usually have not been tested at all, many have problems or just won't compile. That is why Fink doesn't search the unstable tree by default.>>


And at the Fink news, main page:

<<Many Fink users may be using Fink's unstable tree without being fully aware of what this entails. Fink users who do not wish to help the Fink team with testing should disable their unstable tree.>>


<<The Fink team appreciates those users who are willing to stick with the unstable tree, even when there are problems like today's, and provide the team with prompt feedback. This is a community effort and we appreciate your participation.>>

Thank you Sao!

Maybe, **just maybe**, there's a reason that the unstable tree isn't in the fink search path by default?

(If you want to live on the (b)leading edge then sometimes the red stuff is gonna flow. Sheesh! Frustration I can understand, but anger? Taking your bat and ball and going home?)

Flabbergasted,
Paul

Great words, Paul... :D

I haven't used any of my own, the information at the Fink site is clear and simple, but being from latinoamerica, I can't resist to add:

"Don't cry for me...Argentina" (soft violin music in the background)

For all of us who use unstable.

To de BoyZ....

Just to make this clear again. I like Fink, but that does not mean that I have to become a non-critical integrist like many here.

I use the unstable Fink also, and I do send feedback, and I plan to send concrete feedback to help solve simple library probs.

I have been using Debian since its inception also always the "unstable"...

I have been with "Mandrake Cooker" since its inception. I personally know Jacques Lemarois the founder of Mandrake.

I have tweak and de-bugged countless Linux applications, and still work at that.... and
NEVER..... Let me make that clear: the word is NEVER; Never \Nev"er\, adv. [AS. n?fre; ne not, no + ?fre ever.]
1. Not ever; not at any time; at no time, whether past,
present, or future. --Shak.

Death still draws nearer, never seeming near.
--Pope.

2. In no degree; not in the least; not.

Never have I encountered so many avoidable bugs in an "unstable" version of an operation system or in a development tree.

But that does not mean I do not like Fink. I love Fink to bits, or should I say "Bytes"....

Maybe, just maybe, if more folks join the team, and more of the developers, or at least one of them who does nothing else, could simply verify library compatibility, application useability, and crash and burn tendencies before listing on the server, Fink will have a chance to be quite a phenomenon someday. Glitches are understandable, but system trashing IS NOT.

But as things stand now, the Fink "Stable" is the equivalent of Debian "unstable" or even experimental. The Fink unstable, taken as a whole, is virtually a bug trap. "Unstable" in the Linux world for example, means there's going to be problems and constructive feedback to those problems, MINOR crashes and solutions. It shouldn't be a "crash guarantee. It should not in the least mean "GeeZ, this doesn't work but I'll put it up on the tree to see how many systems it crashes," or "I have no idea if this will work, but let's post it to see if it flies." Before something gets posted unto the unstable tree, it should at least be possible to actually USE so that constructive feedback may be given, not just a list of 98% of a system that comprises unworkable applications, broken libraries, deleted necessities, forgotten dependencies, and general labyrinthine and incessant tweaking by users who merely wish to test something that refuses to display the least bit of functionality.

This is not an ideological rant against the monumental effort that is Fink. It is a simple 'critique' that is hard to take for the more obsessivly orientated among you. And for that, I have no intention of apologizing. But I will do my part, however small, to make Fink better, by contributing some real work...... in finding solutions to the problems.

Let me make myself clear once again, I like Fink. I do not like integrists who dare not face the obvious.

Re: Seems I'm stuck either way.
 

I have somewhat the opposite phenomenon: Gnome, Xfce have lost all widgets.... but Windowmaker and BB are fine, as is Enlightenment.

I notified the Finkies about the widget problem but they said that they didn't have the same prob on their boxes so they weren't going to worry about it.

At first, the "imlib" downgrade fixed everything. But with the latest Gnome upgrade, all is back to normal, that is to say, totally botched. Once again there the seemingly incessant library incompatibilities, etc, but this time reversal or downgrading no longer solves the problem.

In any case, I have a feeling that all this will be solved soon because there are many Gnome users in the Fink community, unless of course, they just dump Fink and install Debian like I did yesterday.

Glanz,

What is it that you want? I can't follow you, really...

As I see it, it's very simple, if you just want to use debian, please do so, or if you want to dump MacOS X like you wrote before, and use other system, please do so.

If you want to join the Fink Developer team to help them with your knowledge and experience to solve problems (you will probably be very much welcome), please do so.

I guess Glanz, that if you have a bit of patience, the Fink Developers will iron out the problems you are having now, and with a bit of goodwill, understanding and help from you and others, maybe the solution could come even faster.

Good will is indeed a good idea.

not only Gnome
 

So it seems that this still has nothing tom do with the "libpng" update. That's a "misdiagnosis"... It's the updating process. That's why hunderds of "libpng" error messages are being emitted for Gnome, now for KDE, for Xfce and Sawfish. The Console is "misdiagnosing".........

It seems that rebuilding doesn't help either in most cases. An update of sawfish etc may help.

I believe this is a shared library problem solved by the Gnome developers in 2001, but I am not sure...
#####################################
On Thursday, January 30, 2003, at 04:39 AM, Heinz Nabielek wrote:

Failed: compiling kdelibs3-ssl-3.1-11 failed

libpng warning: Application was compiled with png.h from libpng-1.2.5
libpng warning: Application is running with png.c from libpng-1.0.12

* From: Benjamin Reed
* Subject: Re: [Fink-beginners] Failed: compiling kdelibs3-ssl-3.1-11 failed
* Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:23:30 -0800

Rebuilding may help, this is a bug in the update process, I think.

Yawobs
 

Another week has gone by.

How long can it take to upgrade 2100+ packages.

The way I see it every package that depends on imlib and in turn depends on libpng will have to be upgraded for the name change if they use shared libraries. Otherwise they will be using the new imlib and the old libpng.

Without the name change this could be corrected for any application by simply recompiling (fink rebuild appname).

With the name change of libpng every app that is rebuilt with the unstable version of imlib but hasn't been updated for the name change is still not going to work.

So why the name change? The latest version of libpng is imcompatable with the older version. There wasn't a major revision number change that I could see but the code changes warranted one. The packaging guidelines suggest (demand?) the name change for major version number changes.

With the name change will I ever be able to compile a program without fink?????

Ie. can I download rosegarden and expect it to compile?

I thought having a Mac was the same as being promised a rosegarden and I want it.

I have a Reason not to be Grumpy but a Rosegarden would be nice too.
Willy

First, anger is out of the question. But intolerance of incompetence would be more a accurate description. Therefore, the fact that you remain flabbergasted, does not concern me in the least. In fact, I regret having posted this very message which, I am sure, is not only a waste of time, but a violation of some pietistic protocol to which you adhere.

Glanz: there's a private message waiting for you. You should read it.