Gnome Warning!!!
 

If you have Gnome installed, and you do a "fink update-all", you are in for a bad surprise. The update will uninstall libpng 1.0.12-6 and replace it with libpng3 which in turn will dump all your Gnome graphics into an unreadable state. You will get a warning that Gnome was compiled with 1.0.12 and that the libpng3 won't work. So the logical thing to do would be to uninstall/reinstall to a libpng 1.0.12 and then totally rebuild Gnome-core. But no, that does not work! In other words, if you like using Gnome, and you do a Fink update-all, you will trash Gnome into a totallu unuseable state, never to work again.

You can rebuild all you want. It won't work. I deleted-reinstalled-rebuilt, using every possible combination of building and nothing works. *&*$% @#$^% &^& *&*&^%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I haven't notified the Fink Folks. I am to &*&^%^%$%en mad. I let Sao do it if he has the same problem. He is more patient than I. :) I am really mad.

EDIT: So I checked everything else out. Windowmaker is half-trashed, Blackbox the same..... In other words, a simple "fink update-all" totally trashed my Fink install this morning. I give up! I am pulling out my Debian PPC CDs that I had someone burn for me last week.

Bye-bye OSX and Fink!!! ToodleLoo Kind folks!!!!
Back to Debian..

Glanz

How very odd. I just did a fink update-all after a fink selfupdate-cvs this morning and my windowmaker is still working just fine. I don't have the whole gnome thing so I can't comment on that. I just have gnome-libs, gnome-libs-dev and gnome-libs-shli.

Sorry to hear of your troubles Glanz. But before you dump everything, wait for sao to reply and maybe there is something that can save you here.

OK... I'll wait!!! heheheh... I was really mad there for a bit!!!! Gnome is a total loss... total. Wmaker works OK but since it was compiled with the older libs, it refuses to load certain icons. Nothing helps. Only Blackbox works right now. GeeeZZZZZZ I'd better quit.... I'm getting mad again! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
:D :mad: :D

It seems that sao isn't around right now so maybe I'll try to contact the maintainer of libpng to see if he knows anything about all this. I'll let you know if I get a reply. If there's anybody else you think it would be better to contact, please let me know..... anyone.

Okay, I just heard back from the maintainer of libpng and he has forwarded the message to fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net. So, hopefully, we will hear something back again soon.

Here's the latest:

And here's some more...

I downgraded everything..... rebuilt everything to the original state... It didn't work. Then I upgraded everything......, rebuilt everything...... it didn't work. After the downgrade, the console says that everything was compiled for libpng3..... on the upgrade, console says that everything was compiled for libpng. The opposite of what it should be. Now here's the only solution as I see it.: the user has to totally dump all Gnome, Windowmaker, configuration files and libtaries via hard deletion then start all over again......, possibly dump Fink completely, all references to it all files and start all over. Either way, it will take weeks. Whereas a Debian install would take me one hour. [[[[just kiddin for now]]]]... but seriously, If this is really as fatal as I believe, I'll have no choice.

Everyone, please have a look now at the fink home page. In attempts to let the kind folks at fink see what was going on here first hand, I got the following reply:

WELL, I guess I just stick it out to see what happens. I am glad I posted that glitch here. Thank you for notifying the Finkies for me..... It may save others from the non-functional Fink install with which I am now faced. I was too mad to notify them.

It took me a long time to get THE perfect Gnome install. Too bad.....

ThanXXXX again:)

Glanz,

I'm sorry this hasn't turned out to be the best of days for you. I was happy to help because I could see how angry you were/are.

I am not noticing any problems though which is really weird. But I haven't done anything like log out and back in or reboot, if that's what it might take to turn up the problems, I dunno. And, as always, I had just backed up prior to this mornings update-all scenario. So, if anything does go bad on me now, I could be back to where I was in less than 30 minutes via the trusty psync.

I hope nothing goes wrong for you:) I am mad because they have known about this problem for a few days and they just got around to posting a warning today. What they should have done is PULL THE FRIGGEN LIBPNG3 update until they got their act together........GRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRrrrr
Woof woooook grrrrrr!

Now I just thought of an easier solution. We'll put all those finkies on speed until they come up with Gnome2......... There shouldn't be a prob with that. hehehe

Anyway, the only WM that works correctly now is Blackbox because I don't use any graphics with that except for the background that corresponds with my OS X background so that "eterm --trans" works in rootless mode.

All icons on all window manager systems are gone. That's not all..... You can't log out of Gnome either. The only way to quit is to kill apps and force quit X11.

Here's the latest.... ALL GRAPHICS ON ALL X11 browsers are totally trashed. There's no spinner with Galeon for example.... Mozilla won't even start any more. I have no choice but to uninstall Fink.

Glanz,

Wow...! I knew nothing about libpng3. Will investigate further.

One good note, is that I heard they will soon try to put together gnome2


will come back later...

the skinny
 

So, I see that on the Fink site they are warning certain folks about the use of the unstable tree.... uggggggrrrrrrrrr

THE LIBPNG3 THAT IS GIVING US THIS BIG PROBLEM IS ON THE STABLE TREE. So I do not at all appreciate their tardy warning to users. They should have noticed this and reported this days ago.

But........ I like dem FinkenboyZ anyway....... except for the guy responsible for libpng and imlib, of course.

Glanz,

I'm using:

% fink -V
Package manager version: 0.11.2
Distribution version: 0.5.1.cvs

Made 'fink selfupdate-cvs' yesterday.

I have installed:
And gnome-session in fullscreen XDarwin is working very fine. Don't see any problems. Also in Apple's X11, for me gnome-session is working as before.

Do we have the same set-up?

Glanz,

Did you installed gnome from binaries?

Clarification
 

The problem is with imlib.

imlib-1.9.10-9 is in stable, and if you have it (and -shlibs) installed, GNOME is happy (at least it was for me).

imlib-1.9.14-2 is in unstable, and leads to the libpng problems.

That's why is working here.
Must check this further in the fink-devel list.

akhansen,

Then what about force removing imlib-1.9.14-2 and reinstalling 1.9.10-9?

Will this work?

Downgrading
 

You don't even have to force-remove it. If you use "fink install imlib-1.9.10-9", a downgrade should occur automatically (I did it this afternoon).

Glanz,

There you have it, try that and let us know.

akhansen,

Are you 'the Alexander' that will all know, who helps hundreds of lost souls find their way at fink-users?

% fink -V
Package manager version: 0.11.2
Distribution version: 0.5.1.cvs

status name installed binary stable unstable category summary version
archived libpng 1.0.12-6 1.0.12-6 graphics PNG image format handling library 1.0.12-6
current libpng-shlibs 1.0.12-6 1.0.12-6 1.0.12-6 graphics PNG image format handling library 1.0.12-6
current libpng3 1.2.5-2 1.2.5-2 1.2.5-2 graphics PNG image format handling library 1.2.5-2
current libpng3-shlibs 1.2.5-2 1.2.5-2 1.2.5-2 graphics PNG image format handling library 1.2.5-2


#################
libpng warning: Application was compiled with png.h from libpng-1.2.5
libpng warning: Application is running with png.c from libpng-1.0.12
libpng error: Incompatible libpng version in application and library
gdk_imlib ERROR: Cannot load image: /sw/share/galeon/spinners/galeon/026.png
All fallbacks failed.
#######################and
libpng warning: Application was compiled with png.h from libpng-1.0.12
libpng warning: Application is running with png.c from libpng-1.2.5
libpng error: Incompatible libpng version in application and library

##################

The imlib downgrade worked!!!!
Hooooooooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

May I stop ranting now??????????

PleeeeeeZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

Phew!!!!!!!!!

That just goes to show ya how little I know!

Greetings from one of the Fink project leaders.

We're pretty proud of our responsiveness to user concerns over at Fink. We run three mailing lists there, and people who post problem reports on those lists usually get rapid responses.

We don't monitor other forums such as this one, however, so it is quite distressing to see people reporting on problems with Fink, mis-diagnosing them (as in this case), but NEVER bringing the matter to the attention of the Fink team.

In the case at hand, although the error messages referred to libpng, the cause was an update to the imlib package in Fink's unstable tree. If you downgrade your imlib package as mentioned earlier, everything should work fine.

I wonder if I should downgrade imlib even though I haven't had any problems? Of course, I don't have the whole gnome set up as Glanz and sao do.

David,

It's an honor that you pay us a visit. Here in the forums, you will probably find some of your most loyal Fink fans.

Glanz, probably panicked a bit to much, and I'm glad the solution to his problems is quite easy actually.

Please, I hope you can keep coming to visit us, if you can squeeze some free time to post here.

thatch:

You may not need to downgrade, unless you have problems with specific applications. One problem that I saw which surprised me is that the Eterm scrollbar disappeared.

Anyway, once you have deb files for both versions, you can switch back and forth.

sao:

I am indeed the same Alexander. dmrrsn pointed this thread out to me, and I saw that there was a bit of confusion, so I figured it would be a good idea to clarify the situation.

-- oops, that was already posted :)

Wow, what an honor to have you both here and at the same time..!

I'm not worthy....:)

Thanks a lot for coming and hope you stay for long.

What's this,... and now Ben Hines too, wowwww...!

This start to look like fink-users...

I brought this to the fink team's attention as soon as I found out about it for the benefit of all and at the unfortunate cost to Glanz. I also reported back here that it was imlib via quote from the fink team. So, somehow it apparently got misconstrued after that.

Okay, thanks for the reply. I'm just going to sit tight until I see something not right, otherwise do nothing.

thatch,

I know your intentions were very noble and good, trying to help Glanz, but you nearly brought the whole Fink Developers Team to visit us for a simple, little problem. :D

Best, is not to panic when some problem comes out, and is good to remember that everything has a solution, somehow.

Unfortunately, tonight I was late to come around.

sao,

I didn't panic. I just reported the problem. Glanz was too upset to do so and so I did it for him. Am I wrong for that?

Not at all...

Maybe just a bit loud...:D

I had a good laugh when I started seeing all the familiar faces from Fink. :)

I don't understand what about my reporting the problem for Glanz was loud. Could you please elaborate on what it was that I said that sounded loud to you?

Thatch,

Sorry if you misunderstood my words. Nothing personal here, on the contrary.

Okay then. It just kind of sounded like you thought I was being panicky and loud, neither of which I thought I was.

Looking back to the beginning of this thread, I was trying to calm Glanz down and be patient for a possible solution. And just to be clear, some quotes that were not referenced by anyone early in the thread that I posted were from the package maintainer and not from me.

I just don't want to be associated with panicking, being loud, not reporting or mis-diagnosing here.

thatch,

I apologize if you took my "mis-diagnosis" comment as being directed at you. You were extremely helpful in bringing this matter to the attention of the Fink team. This mis-diagonis, made by the original poster, was the assumption that the problem was with libpng, when in fact it was with imlib.

-- Dave

dmrrsn,

Thanks for saying so. For a minute there, I was feeling like the messenger who got killed.

And thanks for all your tremendous efforts at the fink project. As sao had said, you'll find a lot of fink users here that know it to be the greatest and so they are very loyal. And I am one.

Now I am certain.......
that....
any attempt to "upgrade" Gnome in the unstable tree will result in new and wonderful imlib crashes, new and refreshing ways to NOT render Portable Network Graphics, new ways to totally eliminate widgets from all browsers and window frames..., and the list goes on.

Granted, Fink uses APT, but this ends the similarity with Debian. For example, if you try to install something from the unstable tree that will affect the stability of "stable" apps already installed, you will be notified by APT. In Debian, one simply cannot do an upgrade that will render the system useless. In FINK, unhappily, this is not only a regular occurance, but it seems to be a way for their developers to get "testing" feedback because it is becoming evident they do little testing themselves.

Is this a criticism, you may ask? Yes it is..., but it's not the end of the world. The only criticism I have then is that it seems that the developers don't even bother to launch some of the apps they place in the unstable tree.

So I am hereby giving notice to them that the word "unstable" is just that.... a word. Therefore they may feel free (hopefully) not to take "unstable" as a requirement just to be semantically correct.

The purpose of APT/dpkg and the Debian tools is not only to facilitate installations of "no matter what" no matter what the effect. The Debian APT system was developped to insure relative system stability, even in the "unstable" distribution by averting the user of possible or certain inconsistencies. But that takes someone (hopefully human) to actually write the text of these warnings, and someone conscient, after a minimal amount of testing, of the possible inconsistencies.

It shouldn't be just a chaotic "grab-bag" of crashy applications emitted for feedback.

Glanz,

I suggest you post directly your concerns to the 'fink-users' list.

Maybe there, they will help you clarify any issues that you might have or misunderstand about Fink.

I do not believe it would do any good. "Unstable"
should not mean "unuseable".... Perhaps instead of an "unstable" tree they should have an "unuseable tree" LOL :)

Anyway, I still like Fink....

Seems I'm stuck either way.
 

Right now after the last selfupdate-cvs and update-all I'm stuck. Gnome is working fine but Enlightenment has no (visible) widgets. If I revert to older imlib then Enlightenment looks fine but Gnome looses all its icons.:(

Also now control-center build crashes Fink Commander. Builds ok on command line but right in the middle puts up some garbage chars.
Fink info shows maintainer none.

I believe the problem is libpng3 not being recognized as replacing libpng. Not all the Gnome stuff has been updated yet to recognize it. My current solution is wait and see and if not resolved soon to disable unstable and rebuild things (everything runs its just not pretty)
My opinion is the major version number name change was a good idea when only a few things were dependent on say an application. Maybe not such an easy solution when lots of stuff is dependant on a library.

I have a Reason not to be grumpy.
Willy
ps.
My email is messed up till I get imap running. So I can send on one account (webmail) but not receive. And receive on another but not send (says I'm not a member). Anyway I don't have email on my current DSL account till I set up imap. So I'm getting all the fink users list stuff but can't post without going back to the 56k modem.

Quoted from the FAQs at the Fink site:

<<First make sure you understand what 'unstable' means. Packages in there usually have not been tested at all, many have problems or just won't compile. That is why Fink doesn't search the unstable tree by default.>>


And at the Fink news, main page:

<<Many Fink users may be using Fink's unstable tree without being fully aware of what this entails. Fink users who do not wish to help the Fink team with testing should disable their unstable tree.>>


<<The Fink team appreciates those users who are willing to stick with the unstable tree, even when there are problems like today's, and provide the team with prompt feedback. This is a community effort and we appreciate your participation.>>

Thank you Sao!

Maybe, **just maybe**, there's a reason that the unstable tree isn't in the fink search path by default?

(If you want to live on the (b)leading edge then sometimes the red stuff is gonna flow. Sheesh! Frustration I can understand, but anger? Taking your bat and ball and going home?)

Flabbergasted,
Paul

Great words, Paul... :D

I haven't used any of my own, the information at the Fink site is clear and simple, but being from latinoamerica, I can't resist to add:

"Don't cry for me...Argentina" (soft violin music in the background)

For all of us who use unstable.

To de BoyZ....

Just to make this clear again. I like Fink, but that does not mean that I have to become a non-critical integrist like many here.

I use the unstable Fink also, and I do send feedback, and I plan to send concrete feedback to help solve simple library probs.

I have been using Debian since its inception also always the "unstable"...

I have been with "Mandrake Cooker" since its inception. I personally know Jacques Lemarois the founder of Mandrake.

I have tweak and de-bugged countless Linux applications, and still work at that.... and
NEVER..... Let me make that clear: the word is NEVER; Never \Nev"er\, adv. [AS. n?fre; ne not, no + ?fre ever.]
1. Not ever; not at any time; at no time, whether past,
present, or future. --Shak.

Death still draws nearer, never seeming near.
--Pope.

2. In no degree; not in the least; not.

Never have I encountered so many avoidable bugs in an "unstable" version of an operation system or in a development tree.

But that does not mean I do not like Fink. I love Fink to bits, or should I say "Bytes"....

Maybe, just maybe, if more folks join the team, and more of the developers, or at least one of them who does nothing else, could simply verify library compatibility, application useability, and crash and burn tendencies before listing on the server, Fink will have a chance to be quite a phenomenon someday. Glitches are understandable, but system trashing IS NOT.

But as things stand now, the Fink "Stable" is the equivalent of Debian "unstable" or even experimental. The Fink unstable, taken as a whole, is virtually a bug trap. "Unstable" in the Linux world for example, means there's going to be problems and constructive feedback to those problems, MINOR crashes and solutions. It shouldn't be a "crash guarantee. It should not in the least mean "GeeZ, this doesn't work but I'll put it up on the tree to see how many systems it crashes," or "I have no idea if this will work, but let's post it to see if it flies." Before something gets posted unto the unstable tree, it should at least be possible to actually USE so that constructive feedback may be given, not just a list of 98% of a system that comprises unworkable applications, broken libraries, deleted necessities, forgotten dependencies, and general labyrinthine and incessant tweaking by users who merely wish to test something that refuses to display the least bit of functionality.

This is not an ideological rant against the monumental effort that is Fink. It is a simple 'critique' that is hard to take for the more obsessivly orientated among you. And for that, I have no intention of apologizing. But I will do my part, however small, to make Fink better, by contributing some real work...... in finding solutions to the problems.

Let me make myself clear once again, I like Fink. I do not like integrists who dare not face the obvious.

Re: Seems I'm stuck either way.
 

I have somewhat the opposite phenomenon: Gnome, Xfce have lost all widgets.... but Windowmaker and BB are fine, as is Enlightenment.

I notified the Finkies about the widget problem but they said that they didn't have the same prob on their boxes so they weren't going to worry about it.

At first, the "imlib" downgrade fixed everything. But with the latest Gnome upgrade, all is back to normal, that is to say, totally botched. Once again there the seemingly incessant library incompatibilities, etc, but this time reversal or downgrading no longer solves the problem.

In any case, I have a feeling that all this will be solved soon because there are many Gnome users in the Fink community, unless of course, they just dump Fink and install Debian like I did yesterday.

Glanz,

What is it that you want? I can't follow you, really...

As I see it, it's very simple, if you just want to use debian, please do so, or if you want to dump MacOS X like you wrote before, and use other system, please do so.

If you want to join the Fink Developer team to help them with your knowledge and experience to solve problems (you will probably be very much welcome), please do so.

I guess Glanz, that if you have a bit of patience, the Fink Developers will iron out the problems you are having now, and with a bit of goodwill, understanding and help from you and others, maybe the solution could come even faster.

Good will is indeed a good idea.

not only Gnome
 

So it seems that this still has nothing tom do with the "libpng" update. That's a "misdiagnosis"... It's the updating process. That's why hunderds of "libpng" error messages are being emitted for Gnome, now for KDE, for Xfce and Sawfish. The Console is "misdiagnosing".........

It seems that rebuilding doesn't help either in most cases. An update of sawfish etc may help.

I believe this is a shared library problem solved by the Gnome developers in 2001, but I am not sure...
#####################################
On Thursday, January 30, 2003, at 04:39 AM, Heinz Nabielek wrote:

Failed: compiling kdelibs3-ssl-3.1-11 failed

libpng warning: Application was compiled with png.h from libpng-1.2.5
libpng warning: Application is running with png.c from libpng-1.0.12

* From: Benjamin Reed
* Subject: Re: [Fink-beginners] Failed: compiling kdelibs3-ssl-3.1-11 failed
* Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:23:30 -0800

Rebuilding may help, this is a bug in the update process, I think.

Yawobs
 

Another week has gone by.

How long can it take to upgrade 2100+ packages.

The way I see it every package that depends on imlib and in turn depends on libpng will have to be upgraded for the name change if they use shared libraries. Otherwise they will be using the new imlib and the old libpng.

Without the name change this could be corrected for any application by simply recompiling (fink rebuild appname).

With the name change of libpng every app that is rebuilt with the unstable version of imlib but hasn't been updated for the name change is still not going to work.

So why the name change? The latest version of libpng is imcompatable with the older version. There wasn't a major revision number change that I could see but the code changes warranted one. The packaging guidelines suggest (demand?) the name change for major version number changes.

With the name change will I ever be able to compile a program without fink?????

Ie. can I download rosegarden and expect it to compile?

I thought having a Mac was the same as being promised a rosegarden and I want it.

I have a Reason not to be Grumpy but a Rosegarden would be nice too.
Willy

First, anger is out of the question. But intolerance of incompetence would be more a accurate description. Therefore, the fact that you remain flabbergasted, does not concern me in the least. In fact, I regret having posted this very message which, I am sure, is not only a waste of time, but a violation of some pietistic protocol to which you adhere.

Glanz: there's a private message waiting for you. You should read it.