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-   -   How many Fs? (http://hintsforums.macworld.com/showthread.php?t=87061)

fazstp 03-09-2008 08:03 PM
How many Fs?
 
Count the Fs in the following sentence

"FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS"

cwtnospam 03-09-2008 09:30 PM
6 ;)

Code:
set x to characters of "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS" as list
set y to count of items in x
set n to 0
repeat with i from 1 to y
        if item i of x is "F" then
                set n to n + 1
        end if
end repeat
display dialog n as string

fracai 03-09-2008 10:01 PM
pfft

Code:
echo "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS" | sed "s/\(.\)/\1\n/g" | grep F | wc
6

fish3k1 03-09-2008 10:05 PM
Sneaky... if not for the obvious factor that is can't be the obvious answer (or you'd not bother asking the question) I'd not have been looking hard enough to notice the fact that those aren't quotation marks ;)

J Christopher 03-09-2008 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazstp (Post 457015)
Count the Fs in the following sentence

"FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS"
Zero. Sentences end with some sort of punctuation. ;)

Mikey-San 03-09-2008 10:18 PM
you all can eat my dust as i burn over this string

Code:
#include <stdio.h>

int subcharCount(const char *str, const char *subchar);

int main (int argc, const char * argv[])
{
        char *riddle = "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS";
        char *subchar = "F";
       
        int count = subcharCount(riddle, subchar);
        printf("There were %i occurrences of the character %s.\n", count, subchar);

        return 0;
}

int subcharCount(const char *str, const char *subchar)
{
        int count = 0;
       
        while (*str != '\0')
        {
                if (*str == *subchar)
                        ++count;
                                       
                ++str;
        }
       
        return count;
}
edit: no matter what I do, I can't get rid of the whitespace in the CODE section . . . grr!

Mikey-San 03-09-2008 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Christopher (Post 457035)
Zero. Sentences end with some sort of punctuation. ;)
http://content.imagesocket.com/image...owchartf99.jpg

hayne 03-09-2008 10:31 PM
Code:
echo "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS" | grep -o 'F' | wc -l

Mikey-San 03-09-2008 10:32 PM
Okay, how many other versions of this can we come up with?

cwtnospam 03-09-2008 10:47 PM
I believe they are quotes, but if we're counting the number of 'Fs' and not 'F', then it would be zero. :eek:

Mikey-San 03-09-2008 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwtnospam (Post 457024)
6 ;)

Code:
set x to characters of "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS" as list
set y to count of items in x
set n to 0
repeat with i from 1 to y
        if item i of x is "F" then
                set n to n + 1
        end if
end repeat
display dialog n as string
You know, you can simplify this a bit:

Code:
set chars to characters of "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS"
set n to 0
repeat with c in chars
        if (c as string) is "F" then
                set n to (n + 1)
end repeat
display dialog n as string
edit: countdown until someone simplifies this . . .

fracai 03-10-2008 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hayne (Post 457038)
Code:
echo "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS" | grep -o 'F' | wc -l
curse your superior grep flag usage!

NovaScotian 03-10-2008 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey-San (Post 457047)
You know, you can simplify this a bit:

Code:
set chars to characters of "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS"
set n to 0
repeat with c in chars
        if (c as string) is "F" then
                set n to (n + 1)
end repeat
display dialog n as string
edit: countdown until someone simplifies this . . .
A tiny bit shorter:
Code:
set chars to characters of "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS"
repeat with C in chars
        if contents of C is not "F" then set contents of C to 0
end repeat
count strings of chars
Alternatively, but same approach:
Code:
set chars to characters of "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS"
repeat with C in chars
        if contents of C is "F" then set contents of C to 1
end repeat
count numbers of chars

cwtnospam 03-10-2008 11:19 AM
In my defense, I wasn't trying to code efficiently. I was just typing quickly so I could confirm my manual count. Funny how it escalated though! :D

Mikey-San 03-10-2008 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian (Post 457125)
A tiny bit shorter:
Code:
set chars to characters of "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS"
repeat with C in chars
        if contents of C is not "F" then set contents of C to 0
end repeat
count strings of chars
Alternatively, but same approach:
Code:
set chars to characters of "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS"
repeat with C in chars
        if contents of C is "F" then set contents of C to 1
end repeat
count numbers of chars
Okay, come back in 6 months and determine the intent of this code. Better comment it. ;)

Edit: No fair not displaying it to the user! I could wrap my if statement onto one line, too, y'know. :P

tw 03-10-2008 08:01 PM
Inefficient AppleScript!!!

try this: :D
Code:
set theString to "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS"
set {tid, AppleScript's text item delimiters} to {AppleScript's text item delimiters, "F"}
set n to (count of text items of theString) - 1
set AppleScript's text item delimiters to tid
display dialog n as string

EatsWithFingers 03-10-2008 08:05 PM
Using Just Two* Bash Commands...
 
Code:
FSTRING=$(echo "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS" | tr -cd F)
echo ${#FSTRING}
*two distinct commands, but still three calls :rolleyes:.

Or if you prefer it on one line:

Code:
FSTRING=$(echo "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS" | tr -cd F) | echo ${#FSTRING}

P.S. - the 'o' flag isn't supported by Panther's grep!

Jay Carr 03-10-2008 09:48 PM
Yes.
--Zen Master

J Christopher 03-11-2008 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey-San (Post 457047)
edit: countdown until someone simplifies this . . .
It would be much more interesting to see who could write the least efficient program to count the Fs in that sentence series of words quoted in the OP.

hayne 03-11-2008 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Christopher (Post 457285)
It would be much more interesting to see who could write the least efficient program to count the Fs in that sentence series of words quoted in the OP.
The least efficient program does not exist since given any such, you can always make a less efficient program by adding another useless statement to the program.
But here's a starting candidate:
Code:
#!/usr/bin/perl

use warnings;
use strict;

sub makeRandStringWithNFs($$)
{
    my ($len, $numFs) = @_;

    my @chars = ();
    for (my $i = 0; $i < $numFs; ++$i)
    {
        my $index;
        do
        {
            $index = int(rand($len));
        }
        while (defined($chars[$index]));
       
        $chars[$index] = 'F';
    }

    for (my $index = 0; $index < $len; ++$index)
    {
        next if defined($chars[$index]);

        $chars[$index] = chr(ord('A') + int(rand(26)));
    }
   
    return join('', @chars);
}

sub countFs($)
{
    my ($targetStr) = @_;
   
    my $len = length($targetStr);
    while (1)
    {
        for (my $numFs = 0; $numFs <= $len; ++$numFs)
        {
            my $str = makeRandStringWithNFs($len, $numFs);
            #print "$str\n";
            if ($str eq $targetStr)
            {
                return $numFs;
            }
        }
    }
}

my $targetStr = "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS";
my $numFs = countFs($targetStr);
print "$numFs\n";
[edit]
The above script generates random strings with the same length as the original string but with varying numbers of F's and then tests to see if by chance that randomly generated string is the same as the original string.
This is (intentionally) extremely inefficient - for the string that was the subject of this thread, I'm think it would take more than the lifetime of the universe to finish!
[/edit]

EatsWithFingers 03-11-2008 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Christopher (Post 457285)
It would be much more interesting to see who could write the least efficient program to count the Fs in that sentence series of words quoted in the OP.
This reminded me of the International Obfuscated C Code Contest, where the aim is to write a program such that is impossible to work out what it does.

Unfortunately, my programming teacher taught me too well, and I refuse to go down that path...! :D


EDIT: It was too tempting. Below is C code which, although only slightly obfuscated, computes the result using a divide-and-conquer approach. The first parameter is the sentence, and the second is the letter to count (e.g. $>./a.out 'hello there' e). It prints out -1 if not called correctly.

Code:
int f(char *s, char l, int a, int b) { return a==b?s[a]==l:f(s,l,a,(a+b)/2)+f(s,l,((a+b)/2)+1,b); }
int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { printf("%d\n",argc==3?f(argv[1],*argv[2],0,strlen(argv[1])-1):-1); }

Felix_MC 03-11-2008 07:38 PM
Couldn't find this for OS X (not that I look that much :P), but if you got a PC around, or Bootcamp and such, heres an easier way ;)
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Office-...Software.shtml

Maybe I'll put some long and useless javascript code later, I gtg right now..:P

fazstp 03-11-2008 08:20 PM
Much as I've enjoyed the coding challenge that has ensued the original post was to illustrate a quirk of the brain. Apparently most people only see 3 Fs.

Now code-on :D . I am interested to see where this might lead.

Felix_MC 03-11-2008 10:05 PM
Well, I tried it in javascript, but it got too messy, and too complicated to debug.. :p

Besides, who needs code anyway, when you could do this in Quartz Composer in under 5 mins? :)
Below is the QC file, containing only 3 base patches: String Components, Structure Count, and Mathematical Expression. Then I added a Image with string and Sprite patches so the result can be seen in the viewer window. :p
I've also build a "codeless" cocoa app in Xcode, using the QC file as the "logic".
And my app can count any letter, symbol, word, or phrase the user wants, so it's already better than all of y'all's :D
Download here :P

tw 03-11-2008 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 457505)
Besides, who needs code anyway, when you could do this in Quartz Composer in under 5 mins? :)
maybe you should turn this into the world's most useless screensaver... ;)

NovaScotian 03-12-2008 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey-San (Post 457216)
Okay, come back in 6 months and determine the intent of this code. Better comment it. ;)
I would know in 6 months.

Code:
-- AppleScript can discern class within a list.
set tList to {"Alpha", "Beta", 6, {27, 36}, "Gamma", 4, {1, "B", 3}, {A:"Adam", E:"Eve"}}
-- each of these produces a list:
set S to strings of tList --> {"Alpha", "Beta", "Gamma"}
set N to integers of tList --> {6, 4}
set L to lists of tList --> {{27, 36}, {1, "B", 3}}
set M to integers of item 1 of L --> {1, 3}
set R to records of tList --> {{A:"Adam", E:"Eve"}}
-- etc.

Wee_Guy 03-12-2008 03:07 PM
I find that the simplest way to find the fs was to hit [Command]+[F] and hit 'Next' a few times.

The answer was indeed, 6.

However, when i counted manually before hitting 'Find', I failed to count the 'F's in the 'of's.

Felix_MC 03-12-2008 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tw
maybe you should turn this into the world's most useless screensaver...
Nah, you're just jealous of my skills XD :D

BTW, does the app at least work properly? Anyone tried it:p?
I know it has a few bugs with main window when opening and closing the app, but does it count right?:)

capitalj 03-12-2008 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 457657)
BTW, does the app at least work properly? Anyone tried it:p?
I know it has a few bugs with main window when opening and closing the app, but does it count right?:)
After reading that, I thought "What the heck..." and downloaded it.

It counted correctly, and I noticed the search is case sensitive, too.

I searched "Dimple monkey twice the pudding octopi for tango man" for first "i" (4) then "I" (0).

Felix_MC 03-12-2008 07:58 PM
Okay, so I fixed some changed some stuff around. First I added a checkbox that asks you whether you want the search to be case sensitive or not. I had to triple the number of patches just for that;). Then I fixed one bug that under some circumstances, when the main text field was empty, and the search field contained something, the frequency would show -1. I added a quick conditional patch that displays "0" whenever the output displays a negative number. I also did some small interface changes, and stuff like that..
Download qc file and app here for anyone that's interested.
That was actually pretty fun :D
There should be more small, silly, programming contests on this forum, kinda like some forums have photoshop contests or what not :D

Now I'm going to go and try to write a "F" counter program for my TI-84+ Silver Edition :p:)

EatsWithFingers 03-13-2008 08:49 AM
Probabilistic Method
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazstp (Post 457487)
Much as I've enjoyed the coding challenge that has ensued the original post was to illustrate a quirk of the brain. Apparently most people only see 3 Fs.
Even knowing that there were 6, it still took me the best part of two minutes to find them all!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fazstp (Post 457487)
Now code-on :D . I am interested to see where this might lead.
Below is code which returns an answer based on probability. A random character is chosen, then checked for equivalence with the target letter. Over time, the ratio of hits/(misses + hits) will tend towards the ratio of 'target letters'/total.

Code:
#define VAL_UPDATE_BOUND 1000000

#include <stdlib.h>
#include <time.h>


/* Chooses a random character in the input string and tests for equality with *
 * the target letter. The number of hits and misses are used to calculate    *
 * probabilistically the number of occurrences of the target letter in the    *
 * input string. The loops exists when no change in the guessed answer occurs *
 * for a given number of iterations, or when the number of hits or misses are *
 * about to overflow. Shorter strings have a larger bound for the number of  *
 * iterations required for each guess, since guesses are more volatile when  *
 * the number of characters is low.                                          */
void count_letters_prob(char *str, char letter)
{
  int length    = strlen(str);
  int num_loops = 0;
  int max_loops = VAL_UPDATE_BOUND / length;

  unsigned int hits  = 0;
  unsigned int misses = 0;

  int curr_guess = 0;
  int new_guess  = 0;

  while (num_loops++ < max_loops) {
    int idx = length * ((float)(rand())/(RAND_MAX + 1.0));

    /* Check Character for Match */
    if (str[idx] == letter) {
      if (hits == UINT_MAX) break; else hits++;
    }
    else {
      if (misses == UINT_MAX) break; else misses++;
    }

    new_guess = (length * ((float)hits / (hits + misses))) + 0.5;

    /* Update Variables if Guess has Changed */
    if (new_guess != curr_guess) {
      // printf("%d\n", new_guess);
      curr_guess = new_guess;
      num_loops = 0;
    }
  }

  printf("HITS:\t%d\nMISSES:\t%d\nGUESS:\t%d\n", hits, misses, curr_guess);
}


int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
  if (argc != 3) { return 1; }

  /* Initialise Random Number Generator                        *
  * (srand is called twice because if this is not done, for    *
  *  small ranges, the first random number is always the same) */
  srand(time(0));
  srand(rand());

  count_letters_prob(argv[1], *argv[2]);

  return 0;
}
Example run:

$> ./a.out 'FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS' F
HITS: 739
MISSES: 10962
GUESS: 6


Not as compact as my previous entries though.... :p

Jay Carr 03-13-2008 11:42 AM
Good grief! I had myself wholly convinced that you all were nutters and the sentence in fact only had 3 F's in it. I was going to write an extended rant about how you all are idiots, then I decided to run a simple test on my own. I put the line into a text editor and starting deleting every letter that wasn't an F.

Didn't take me long to see that there were in fact 6 Fs, and that for some reason my mind was completely skipping over the Fs in the world "of". How ridiculous! Why on earth does that happen? Fastzp, is there an explanation for this?

cwtnospam 03-13-2008 12:20 PM
It's becuase we do nto raed letetrs, we raed wrods!

seeker777 03-13-2008 12:39 PM
I just wanted to pipe up and say that I have enjoyed this thread even though I did not participate (might have something to do with being ancient and having learned practically dead languages back in the day...Cobol anyone? :p How about Fortran IV?...)

Anyway, Felix_MC, shouldn't you be working on homework, not fooling around here:D I seem to remember some last minute crises (hmm, interviews...losing your a$$ in stock games...):rolleyes::)

iampete 03-13-2008 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker777 (Post 457826)
. . . I have enjoyed this thread . . .
Ditto, even though most of it was way above my head.:o

Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker777 (Post 457826)
. . . Felix_MC . . . losing your a$$ in stock games...):rolleyes::)
Ah, but he still has his a$$, since all of his losses were imaginary:), unlike most of the rest of us whose (paper) lo$$es were for real.:(

NovaScotian 03-13-2008 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwtnospam (Post 457818)
It's becuase we do nto raed letetrs, we raed wrods!
Or even: "Acocdrnig to an elgnsih unviesitry sutdy the oredr of letetrs in a wrod dosen't mttaer, the olny thnig thta's iopmrantt is that the frsit and lsat ltteer of eevry word is in the crcreot ptoision. The rset can be jmbueld and one is stlil able to raed the txet wiohtut dclftfuity"

Felix_MC 03-13-2008 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker777
Anyway, Felix_MC, shouldn't you be working on homework, not fooling around here I seem to remember some last minute crises (hmm, interviews...losing your a$$ in stock games...)
Right now I'm slacking off a bit. As some of might now, this weekend I moved from a big city in Northern Virginia (Sterling), to a smaller city in Central Virginia. School is a bit easier, and teachers aren't counting any tests or hw for this week, since I'm new. The school is also a bit older, and therefore has less computers and stuff like that. Also since I moved, I won't be able to participate in the Stock Market game, but I can still check on my group, since I have the username and password :p The good thing is, I got promoted to Algebra II, which is considered 11th grade math here in Virginia, and I'm only in 8th grade :). Also, girls are a bit hotter here, and way more "nicer":rolleyes:. And since I now take 11th grade math, I have to take a bus in the middle of the day to go to the local highschool to take Algebra II. Highschool girls are sweet..:p Maybe I should create a new threat about it, I need help with something anyway..
Ah... Math and girls... What more could you ask for?:D

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampete
Ah, but he still has his a$$, since all of his losses were imaginary, unlike most of the rest of us whose (paper) lo$$es were for real.
Maybe you should sign up for the Stock Market Game too :)
Last time I checked the fee was $15 :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian
Or even: "Acocdrnig to an elgnsih unviesitry sutdy the oredr of letetrs in a wrod dosen't mttaer, the olny thnig thta's iopmrantt is that the frsit and lsat ltteer of eevry word is in the crcreot ptoision. The rset can be jmbueld and one is stlil able to raed the txet wiohtut dclftfuity"
I bleive taht we leanred taht in shoocl too :)

fazstp 03-13-2008 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalister (Post 457797)
Didn't take me long to see that there were in fact 6 Fs, and that for some reason my mind was completely skipping over the Fs in the world "of". How ridiculous! Why on earth does that happen? Fastzp, is there an explanation for this?
I have no idea why. My wife found the question on an Alzheimer's website but there wasn't much in the way of explanation. I just found it interesting because I was pretty convinced there were 4 Fs. It seems like such a simple task for the brain.

tw 03-13-2008 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazstp (Post 457924)
I have no idea why. My wife found the question on an Alzheimer's website but there wasn't much in the way of explanation. I just found it interesting because I was pretty convinced there were 4 Fs. It seems like such a simple task for the brain.
I think its because the brain pays less attention to connector words than to substance words. we don't really think word by word, we think phrase by phrase, and those 'of's are just there to tie the phrases together.

fazstp 03-14-2008 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EatsWithFingers (Post 457773)
Below is code which returns an answer based on probability. A random character is chosen, then checked for equivalence with the target letter. Over time, the ratio of hits/(misses + hits) will tend towards the ratio of 'target letters'/total.
That's crazy enough to work :D . I found 10000 passes gives you a pretty accurate count.

fazstp 03-16-2008 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 457684)
There should be more small, silly, programming contests on this forum, kinda like some forums have photoshop contests or what not :D
The Enigma puzzles in New Scientist are often programmable.

Like this one;

Classical Centuries
No. 1484 by Adrian Somerfield

Place the letters C, L, X, V and I into a 4 x 4 grid so that each row, column and diagonal forms 10 different valid roman numerals less than CC (columns and diagonals read from the top down). Add the total of the 10 numbers to get a score for the grid.

There should be 12 solutions. Two pairs of solutions have scores differing by C. In one of these pairs the two scores are both divisible by V. What are the scores of the other pair (in roman or arabic numbers)?

( If you want the chance to win £15 email your answer and postal address to enigma@newscientist.com by 9 April but if you just want the coding challenge post it here. Maybe post your code but not the actual answer to stop lazy people entering the competition with your answer. Well the official question was "What were the scores of Robert's pair?" as the pairs differing by C were assigned to Pauline and Robert but that doesn't really matter to the coding challenge. )

tw 03-16-2008 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazstp (Post 458519)
Place the letters C, L, X, V and I into a 4 x 4 grid so that each row, column and diagonal forms 10 different valid roman numerals less than CC (columns and diagonals read from the top down). Add the total of the 10 numbers to get a score for the grid.
what is that - Roman sudoku???

fazstp 03-16-2008 11:52 PM
Actually just reading back over that question I think maybe Felix's time would be better spent on his homework :D

I suppose I can't talk. If I weren't such a procrastinator I wouldn't have posted it in the first place.

iampete 03-16-2008 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazstp (Post 458527)
. . . If I weren't such a procrastinator I wouldn't have posted it in the first place.
Naaah, you're not a real procrastinator. If you were, you would have waited until tomorrow to post it.

Felix_MC 03-17-2008 12:13 AM
Quote:
Actually just reading back over that question I think maybe Felix's time would be better spent on his homework :D
Lol, I'm up for the challenge, I can always do homework later:D
Besides, homework is only 5% of my grade :p and I have only A's anyways, so far at least (if I get a B, bye bye Mac for a month or so.. lol, my parents are very strict :rolleyes:)
I'll work on it tomorrow, as it's 12:10 AM around here, and I have to wake up at 6:30 Am tomorrow :eek:
I had to stay up late tonight to memorize my perfect, imperfect, and future verb endings for the 3rd, 3rd-io, and 4th conjugations, for my latin I class... got a big quiz tomorrow.. and I forgot to call my gf tonight.. I'm in trouble:rolleyes:..
Night Night :p

Mikey-San 03-17-2008 03:44 AM
This thread has more emoticons than posts. Just sayin'.

Jay Carr 03-17-2008 05:14 AM
:D:(:eek::cool::rolleyes::confused::eek::mad:Whatever do you mean?:):(:p:o;):D:):mad::eek::cool::(:o:confused:

Just try and tell me you didn't ask for that. I feel like a middle schooler all over again...:p:p;):):eek::D

PS--You may or may not be happy to know that the first time I tried to post this, I got a message saying I was only allowed 30 emoticons per post. A very rational limit if you ask me :confused::eek::D

seeker777 03-17-2008 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Felix_MC
Quote:
homework is only 5% of my grade and I have get only A's anyways, so far at least
Its gooder to see that English much easy for you, so homework no important.:D...Et tu Latin multus eximius?:p

tw 03-17-2008 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 458531)
pand I have get only A's anyways, so far at least
hmmm... I'll give you the cautionary tale I give to all my undergrad freshman (even though that seems like a million years in the future to you now). getting A's too easily will really cause you problems down the line. you develop bad study habits, walk into a college classroom (which has about the same relationship to a high school class that a high school class has to kindergarten), and you sink like a stone. I see some of the smartest students flounder, where mediocre ones (who are used to struggling for every ounce of knowledge) thrive.

I'm just sayin'... ;)

NovaScotian 03-17-2008 02:59 PM
Right on, tw. I've experienced this both ways; first when I went to university as a straight-A high school student, screwed around, and got suspended for a year (after which, of course, I buckled down), and then later as a prof, department head, and Dean over a 35 year teaching career. The core problem for the good HS student is a complete deficiency in study habits because cramming has always been more than enough.

Mikey-San 03-17-2008 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian (Post 458634)
Right on, tw. I've experienced this both ways; first when I went to university as a straight-A high school student, screwed around, and got suspended for a year (after which, of course, I buckled down), and then later as a prof, department head, and Dean over a 35 year teaching career. The core problem for the good HS student is a complete deficiency in study habits because cramming has always been more than enough.
The spiral is worse now that so many school districts are implementing/have implemented graduation requirements that include passing standardized tests. In Virginia, you cannot graduate without passing the Standards of Learning exam, a standardized test that ignores the curriculum of teachers in the different school districts. As a result, you end up with insightful teachers capable of training their students to think being used instead to teach students to pass tests. It's a modern derelict, if you will.

Students end up being "taught", in a roundabout way, to cram for the tests they need to pass, just to get into college. But what use is higher education at that point?

Felix_MC 03-17-2008 04:41 PM
Just came from school 7 minutes ago.. Let's reply to people ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC
homework is only 5% of my grade and I have get only A's anyways, so far at least
Its gooder to see that English much easy for you, so homework no important.:D...Et tu Latin multus eximius?:p
Ok, lol, it was 12:00 AM, and I was tired, I forgot to erase the word "get" when I edited my post.. I erased it now.. Happy :D?
By the way, your latin phrase is way off.. First off, in Latin, the word "Latin", is not "Latin", it's "Latina", hence it's feminine:p
Second off, when you talk to someone, you don't require the word "tu" since the person you're talking to/about is usually deducted from the verb ending, but I guess it's not really wrong especially when you don't even have a verb XD:D.. And unless I'm terribly wrong, eximius means "extremely good" or "extraordinary", and that doesn't really make sense, considering the context.. But you probably wrote it wrong on purpose to poke fun at "moi" :p:)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tw
getting A's too easily will really cause you problems down the line. you develop bad study habits, walk into a college classroom (which has about the same relationship to a high school class that a high school class has to kindergarten), and you sink like a stone. I see some of the smartest students flounder, where mediocre ones (who are used to struggling for every ounce of knowledge) thrive.

I'm just sayin'...
To tw & NovaScotian
Ok, so I'm not even in highschool yet, I'm in 8th grade, even though I take 11th grade math and 9th grade Latin & Science :p
I'm not saying that i get A's too easily, I'm just saying that I get A's :D.
Though it is true that I could study a little more than I currently am, I usually memorize all the stuff I need as the teacher says it in class, or read it later from the textbook.
In the case of latin where I need to memorize a lot of grammar and vocabulary, that I can't really get it stuck into my head during class, I learn them at home by putting them into little "songs" to the tune of a popular song or so.. I don't know how good of a strategy that is, but it works for me.. I pretty much do the same thing with math with postulates and formulas. For example I memorized the Quadratic formula ((x=-b+/-√((b^2)-4ac))/2a) by putting it to the tune of "Pop goes the weasel" :p...
As of this year, they are also teaching us how to use Cornell (?¿) Notes, and other note-taking methods, to prepare us for high school, which come in handy at times :)
So.. Not sure if what I'm doing is right, but it worked so far.. Please do reply with any comments, advice, and/or words of wisdom :p :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey-San
The spiral is worse now that so many school districts are implementing/have implemented graduation requirements that include passing standardized tests. In Virginia, you cannot graduate without passing the Standards of Learning exam, a standardized test that ignores the curriculum of teachers in the different school districts. As a result, you end up with insightful teachers capable of training their students to think being used instead to teach students to pass tests. It's a modern derelict, if you will.

Students end up being "taught", in a roundabout way, to cram for the tests they need to pass, just to get into college. But what use is higher education at that point?
Oh yea.. SOL's, and the "funnest" thing here in VA... They try to make them hard, but they try too hard :p I've taken the SOL's since I came to US, in 6th grade, and my score was always close to perfection.
This year I've already taken the writing prompt and the writing multiple choice SOL test, pretty easy, but I have a load more of those coming in April and May, that i might need to actually study for ;).
You are right about the fact that most students only study for tests they need to pass.. I generally study for any test or quiz, only if I don't know the stuff, which isn't usually the case.. I generally get the hang of things pretty quickly..
Then again, I'm one of those weirdoes who likes school, and thinks it's actually interesting:p.. What do they call those now a-days:rolleyes:? nerds:D?

(Sorry about the excess of smilies Mikey ;))

Jay Carr 03-17-2008 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey-San (Post 458637)
Students end up being "taught", in a roundabout way, to cram for the tests they need to pass, just to get into college. But what use is higher education at that point?
Oh oh! As a college student, I can answer this one easily: A nice shiny piece of paper that tells people some college somewhere knows you passed some tests. Gets you the job just about every time, though sometimes it depends on the shininess of the paper. (And even if this is a myth, most college students believe it.)

Mikey-San 03-17-2008 04:58 PM
I graduated high school the year immediately before the SOLs became graduation requirement in VA. I am eternally happy for this, because I do not test well at all. I'd probably still be in class.

You have my sympathies.

Felix_MC 03-17-2008 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey-San
I graduated high school the year immediately before the SOLs became graduation requirement in VA. I am eternally happy for this, because I do not test well at all. I'd probably still be in class.

You have my sympathies.
Wow, that's pretty lucky of you :)
The SOL's are really long and sometimes you have to wait the whole day for people to finish...

So I'm assuming live(d) in VA then? Just wondering, around what area? Alexandria/DC area? Lynchburg/Richmond area? South VA? I've lived up North in Alexandria and Loudon County for about 2 years... About a week ago I moved south a bit to central VA..

NovaScotian 03-17-2008 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey-San (Post 458637)
The spiral is worse now that so many school districts are implementing/have implemented graduation requirements that include passing standardized tests. In Virginia, you cannot graduate without passing the Standards of Learning exam, a standardized test that ignores the curriculum of teachers in the different school districts. As a result, you end up with insightful teachers capable of training their students to think being used instead to teach students to pass tests. It's a modern derelict, if you will.
What a shame. When I was in high school in NYC (Fall 50 to Spring 55 :eek:) there were state exams called Regents Exams, and here in most Canadian Provinces there were Provincial Exams that didn't vary much across Canada and so served as somewhat of a national standard. The teachers didn't teach to them, they just taught their curriculum. A rant at this point about the dumbing down of our education is tempting, but I'll forebear.

Mikey-San 03-17-2008 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 458671)
So I'm assuming live(d) in VA then? Just wondering, around what area? Alexandria/DC area? Lynchburg/Richmond area? South VA? I've lived up North in Alexandria and Loudon County for about 2 years... About a week ago I moved south a bit to central VA..
I used to live in VA, in a few different areas over the course of many years. I camp out in a shack in the middle of Central Park now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian
What a shame. When I was in high school in NYC (Fall 50 to Spring 55 ) there were state exams called Regents Exams, and here in most Canadian Provinces there were Provincial Exams that didn't vary much across Canada and so served as somewhat of a national standard. The teachers didn't teach to them, they just taught their curriculum. A rant at this point about the dumbing down of our education is tempting, but I'll forebear.
Part of the problem we have with the decline of pedagogy in the United States is that many school district administrators and boards are comprised of people who have never been teachers. They have no idea how to educate people, let alone children, and they never will. Instead of teaching kids how to learn, we end up training them to take exams with no long-term intellectual benefits, or other idiotic curriculum decisions. I cringe every time I read a story about a school board of non-educators (in many places, simply elected community members) telling a teacher how to teach. It's hard to be a good teacher, and the more you tie their hands, the harder it becomes.

By all means, rant away, my man.

NovaScotian 03-18-2008 12:25 PM
RANT on Education Today
 
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but couldn't resist Mikey's invitation:

Having spent 35 years as a professor (who dealt with the products of our school systems), married to an elementary school teacher, and having three grown kids and seven grandkids spread over the east coast of Canada and the US, I do feel qualified to comment somewhat negatively on the state of our (US and Canadian) school systems. There are 6 major issues that have led to the decline of the education of our youth, in my view, but in the interests of brevity, I'll just list them with short explanations -- I could go on at length.

1. School Boards:
At one time school boards had two functions. They were elected to manage and oversee the finances of the the schools in their district (taxpayers money, hence the elected status) and they were responsible for long-term policy and planning for their district (which was to reflect the views of the folks who payed). School administrations ran the schools within guidelines and managed their budgets with some local oversight from the PTA, and, of course, the boards appointed the administrators. Somewhere along the line boards got it into their thick skulls that they knew about and had some purview to consider curriculum content -- an unmitigated disaster for most districts -- a social program gone wild.

2. The Sin of Rote Learning
Little children are sponges -- they can absorb an incredible amount of information and they are extremely observant. Little boys and girls are quite different in many ways (I have 2 girls and a boy plus 5 granddaughters and two grandsons to observe), but they share the ability to memorize almost anything. I can still remember poems memorized in the early grades of my own schooling). Somewhere along the line, it was decided that rote learning was demeaning and that kids (whose logical skills are way behind their memorization skills) should figure out arithmetic for themselves instead of learning their times tables, and the tricks of arithmetic calculation. Result: they need a calculator to do things that I can easily do 5 times as fast in my head. My grandsons took to the times tables as ducks to water -- they thought it was fun and challenging to rattle off quick answers to posed problems. The calculator thing has a huge downside too -- engineering students will write out all the significant figures on their calculator screen even though the input data was only accurate to two or three significant figures and they have virtually no estimation skills. My grandkids have been taught (by us) to round up and down to make the arithmetic easy and give us a guess of the total restaurant bill without seeing the answer (thumb-covered). All of them love to be taught little ditties which they soak up like the sponges they are, and can repeat back anytime. Why schools decided not to emphasize that positive is beyond me.

3. Whole Word versus Sounding It Out Reading.
Modern kids aren't taught to read. Somewhere along the line, some ivory tower education prof decided that "holistic" reading was the way to go, where that means, in simple terms, that readers should recognize whole words. Clearly, adult readers do that, but that's no way to teach it; start with the basics. The problem with that is that they don't learn how to "sound out" new words -- to figure out how to pronounce them from the rules of spelling and the sounds of the letters. Result: they can't spell, and in far too many cases can't read either. Even in Engineering school, they don' t answer the written question. Taught to read before they went to school by their grandmother, all of the grandkids can read damned near anything and spout the parts they understood of it back.

4. The Self-Esteem Fiasco
At some point in the past, school systems seem to have got the fat-headed notion that it was their job to make kids feel good about themselves -- hard comparisons and competition were to be avoided lest we "damage the inner child". They play games in which scores are not kept -- participation is everything. Unfortunately, that's not the way real life is. Grief counseling is a major industry, the news features tearful funerals ahead of world events. What ever happened to a "stiff upper lip"? Half of today's kids seem to be on anxiety drugs -- crutches in my view that mask the necessity to learn who you are and what you can do in a realistic way. Kids are naturally competitive and if you asked early schoolers to line up in the order in which they are good in anything from basketball to arithmetic, they could do it. They know where they stand -- pecking order is innate. The result in my wife's view is that kids get out of school knowing nothing and feeling good about it. To exacerbate this trend, report cards are almost completely vacuous -- full of vague politically correct descriptives instead of grades that measure real performance. To add to the fiasco, kids are promoted in school grades whether they perform or not and they know it, which means that kids who can't read will get nothing at all from the next grade, but they won't be embarrassed by failure -- which is better; to learn the basics or to feel good?

5. Inclusion versus Streaming
It was quite a few years ago when my own kids were in school that (I guess as part of the self-esteem thing) schools stopped streaming students according to their ability. The result, of course, is that you mix bright kids who are bored pallid with dumb kids who don't get it and raise a ruckus. The trend expanded to include kids with mental challenges who had no hope of learning the material but occupied entirely too much of the teacher's time, kids who could prosper in special ed classes are instead stuck in with the rest. Hasn't and doesn't work.

6. The Failure of Merit in Teaching
As a general part of the egalitarian movement in schools, schools have resisted testing because, of course, that would indicate all to clearly who were the good teachers and who should be doing something else for a living. Everyone knows who the duds are, but they survive throughout a career. Principals and school administrators are too often chosen for their politics and political correctness rather than for solid abilities as administrators and educators. Teacher's pay scales are based on their own time in the job and level of education, not on their ability to do the job teaching and maintaining order in their classrooms.

cwtnospam 03-18-2008 12:43 PM
I would add:

7. Uninvolved or defensive parents: My mother was a teacher, and I did some substitute teaching after college. I knew a kid was bound for nowhere when his parent(s) excused bad behavior or claimed that the teacher "didn't like him." If a teacher doesn't like your child, it's because the kid causes problems instead of doing their work.

capitalj 03-18-2008 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian
I do feel qualified to comment somewhat negatively on the state of our (US and Canadian) school systems.
Judging by your resume, you are qualified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian
There are 5 major issues...
You listed 6. ;)

I would also add:

8. Failure to value teaching as professional career.
Society demands much while wanting to pay little (nothing new there), and too often dismisses the job as an easy one that provides 12 months of pay for 10 months of work (a misconception that drives my wife crazy).

Regarding point #6, with which I essentially agree, I must admit to being sympathetic to the argument that even a good teacher may seem to be underperforming when the situation is not considered in context - say, in an overcrowded, underfunded, inner-city school. Teachers should be held accountable without being made scapegoats.

There are overpaid, incompetent teachers who are too difficult to replace, and that needs to change. But I think we should be equally concerned about the underpaid, competent teachers who are so difficult to retain. My wife is a case in point; she misses teaching - but not enough to take a substantial pay cut.

iampete 03-18-2008 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalj (Post 458840)
. . . 8. Failure to value teaching as professional career. . . .
Another chicken/egg issue whose solution is non-trivial and requires an honest assessment which teachers' union pressures have thus far resisted.

For many years, the teaching profession has allowed entry to those who chose it because it required only time expenditure towards credentials rather than an objectively demonstrated mastery of any skill. As previously stated, tenure, raises and promotions are based on time, not on capability. There is a reason that decades of high school counselors have told their students variations of " . . . and if things don't work out, you can always get into teaching". For these, and probably other, reasons, the profession contains much more than its share of underperformers.

Taxpayers naturally resist union pressure to consider the entire profession worthy of the remuneration that only the best of them deserve. If the unions agreed to allow differentiation of reward according to demonstrated capability, I believe that taxpayer resistance to significant pay increases for those deserving of them would disappear. To date, the unions have resisted all attempts to even explore reasonable ways to accomplish merit-based pay standards.

fazstp 03-18-2008 06:11 PM
Code:
set dialog_msg to ""
set dialog_rnd to "osa! a l geylbssAkrah!re'gndaae j,mcioawtekhieadl!r  h,h b lcemy"

set repeats to number of characters of dialog_rnd

repeat with next_seed from 1 to repeats
        set next_num to random number from 1 to (number of characters of dialog_rnd) with seed next_seed
        set dialog_msg to dialog_msg & (character next_num of dialog_rnd)
        if (number of characters of dialog_rnd is 1) then
                set dialog_rnd to ""
        else
                if (next_num is 1) then
                        set dialog_rnd to (characters 2 thru (number of characters of dialog_rnd) of dialog_rnd) as string
                       
                else
                        if (next_num is (number of characters of dialog_rnd)) then
                                set dialog_rnd to (characters 1 thru ((number of characters of dialog_rnd) - 1) of dialog_rnd) as string
                               
                        else
                                set dialog_1 to (characters 1 thru (next_num - 1) of dialog_rnd) as string
                                set dialog_2 to (characters (next_num + 1) thru (number of characters of dialog_rnd) of dialog_rnd) as string
                                set dialog_rnd to (dialog_1 & dialog_2) as string
                               
                        end if
                end if
        end if
       
end repeat

display dialog dialog_msg

Felix_MC 03-18-2008 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazstp
Code:
set dialog_msg to ""
set dialog_rnd to "osa! a l geylbssAkrah!re'gndaae j,mcioawtekhieadl!r  h,h b lcemy"

set repeats to number of characters of dialog_rnd

repeat with next_seed from 1 to repeats
        set next_num to random number from 1 to (number of characters of dialog_rnd) with seed next_seed
        set dialog_msg to dialog_msg & (character next_num of dialog_rnd)
        if (number of characters of dialog_rnd is 1) then
                set dialog_rnd to ""
        else
                if (next_num is 1) then
                        set dialog_rnd to (characters 2 thru (number of characters of dialog_rnd) of dialog_rnd) as string
                       
                else
                        if (next_num is (number of characters of dialog_rnd)) then
                                set dialog_rnd to (characters 1 thru ((number of characters of dialog_rnd) - 1) of dialog_rnd) as string
                               
                        else
                                set dialog_1 to (characters 1 thru (next_num - 1) of dialog_rnd) as string
                                set dialog_2 to (characters (next_num + 1) thru (number of characters of dialog_rnd) of dialog_rnd) as string
                                set dialog_rnd to (dialog_1 & dialog_2) as string
                               
                        end if
                end if
        end if
       
end repeat

display dialog dialog_msg
HA HA!XD Nice one :D

BEWARE! SPOILER!
http://www.tgraphicz.890m.com/photo.png

Felix_MC 03-18-2008 07:51 PM
Know-all video?
 
1 Attachment(s)
So for the last half an hour I've been working on this "video". If you watch it, it will tell you everything about your computer, from your username to your processor load.. Seriously, it works! (it's QC based obviously)
It only works if you view it from a Mac.. running Tiger or above.. and with Quicktime.. :D

In the attachment you'll find the 36kb video and it's 32kb source file :)
Enjoy! :D

capitalj 03-18-2008 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iampete
For many years, the teaching profession has allowed entry to those who chose it because it required only time expenditure towards credentials rather than an objectively demonstrated mastery of any skill.
Teacher cerification here requires a masters degree in education as well as periodic training and re-certification. That takes more than simple time expenditure.

But I agree that not everybody who receives certification will be a successful teacher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampete
"There is a reason that decades of high school counselors have told their students variations of " . . . and if things don't work out, you can always get into teaching".
No teacher or guidance counselor I have ever known has said that. Neither I nor my wife, a former teacher, have never heard that said by anybody except critics of public schools. It reminds me of the old canard about students being asked "If math was a color, what color would it be?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampete
Taxpayers naturally resist union pressure to consider the entire profession worthy of the remuneration that only the best of them deserve. If the unions agreed to allow differentiation of reward according to demonstrated capability, I believe that taxpayer resistance to significant pay increases for those deserving of them would disappear. To date, the unions have resisted all attempts to even explore reasonable ways to accomplish merit-based pay standards.
I agree that merit-based standards should be included in the calculation of teachers' pay. I disagree that unions have resisted all attempts to explore the issue - I even know teachers who advocate for it. But I doubt that taxpayer resistance to pay increases would disappear. Distaste for taxes, and disdain for public schools and teachers currently run too deep.

And, with that said, I will withdraw and leave the thread to its intended topic.

NovaScotian 03-18-2008 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 458906)
So for the last half an hour I've been working on this "video". If you watch it, it will tell you everything about your computer, from your username to your processor load.. Seriously, it works! (it's QC based obviously)
It only works if you view it from a Mac.. running Tiger or above.. and with Quicktime.. :D

In the attachment you'll find the 36kb video and it's 32kb source file :)
Enjoy! :D
Well on a dual-core G5 running Leopard, Felix, it didn't identify anything (not one single thing from start to finish) correctly. There was a security update today (#2). Bet that has something to do with it.

Felix_MC 03-18-2008 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian
Well on a dual-core G5 running Leopard, Felix, it didn't identify anything (not one single thing from start to finish) correctly. There was a security update today (#2). Bet that has something to do with it.
Umm, that's fishy.. I installed the update as well, and I'm not having any problems with it.. Then again, I'm running Tiger, so it might be a Leopard thing
NovaScotian, you said it didn't display anything correctly.. but did it at least display some specs? Or was the space where the specs should have been just blank?
The movie used some "string morphing" patches that morphed some text with inputs from a "Host Info" patch and displayed the result as an image using a sprite patch..
How about the video input at the end ;)? was that visible, or did you see "no image available" ?
Anyone else tried it :)?
Anyone else got it to work?
Did I mess up somewhere:o?

fazstp 03-18-2008 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalj (Post 458909)
And, with that said, I will withdraw and leave the thread to its intended topic.
Well, to be fair, the topic was pretty vague to begin with.

fazstp 03-18-2008 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 458934)
How about the video input at the end ;)? was that visible, or did you see "no image available" ?
Anyone else tried it :)?
Anyone else got it to work?
Did I mess up somewhere:o?
I'm running 10.4.11 and it picked up my specs ok but I got "no image available" at the end. Oh and there's another w in awkward ;) .

Felix_MC 03-18-2008 11:17 PM
Quote:
I'm running 10.4.11 and it picked up my specs ok but I got "no image available" at the end. Oh and there's another w in awkward ;) .
Nice to hear that it worked :)
The reason you might have a "no image available" at the end is because you might not have a webcam or isight camera attached to your mac.. either that or I messed up :p..
I added another "w" to awkward ;)
I'll post the new version tomorrow, lol
I gtg goo take a shower and then sleep.. school tomorrow..
11:18 PM :p

fazstp 03-18-2008 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 458944)
The reason you might have a "no image available" at the end is because you might not have a webcam or isight camera attached to your mac.. either that or I messed up :p..
Bingo. Ran it on a G3 iBook without an iSight.

NovaScotian 03-19-2008 09:49 AM
Nada for me Felix. First page all Hello, no info where I suspect it should be. Predicts I'm running Tiger, it's Leopard. Says 0 MB of RAM, it's 3 GB. Says hello Proc, where I suspect I was supposed to get processor info, and Process Load is not followed by a number. I don't have a web cam, so no image.

Felix_MC 03-19-2008 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian
Nada for me Felix. First page all Hello, no info where I suspect it should be. Predicts I'm running Tiger, it's Leopard. Says 0 MB of RAM, it's 3 GB. Says hello Proc, where I suspect I was supposed to get processor info, and Process Load is not followed by a number. I don't have a web cam, so no image.
That's really weird.. It's supposed to take info straight out of your computer using a "Host info" patch..
The processor load it wasn't actually supposed to be followed by a number, but by a "live" graph that changed color and height based on your processors' load. There was supposedly one graph for each processor..
The tiger thing is really weird.. I made a custom patch in the qc file that checks if the operating system is Leopard. If it returned a "false" value, I set it to show tiger, hence QC QT movies aren't compatible with previous versions of OS X..
If you have the Xcode tools installed, perhaps we can see what's wrong.. Double click the Source.qtz file that came with the movie, and make sure it opens with Quartz Composer(/Developer/Applications/Graphics Tools/Quartz Composer.app) and not QuickTime. You should see a whole bunch of squares connected to each-other by yellow, orange or red "wires"..
In the tool bar, in the top right corner, you should see a "Viewer" button. Click on it. It should display the same thing it should have shown in the QT movie.. See if that works:)..
Feel free to tweak around the qtz file. Note that squares(patches) with 90º straight corners, have sub levels, and you can double click on them to view what patches are inside them. Use the "Edit parent" button to travel back up, out of the patch. Also note that the lines connecting the patches are outputs and inputs from different patches.
See if it works if you view the "movie" from Quartz Composer, and have fun with the Quartz Composer, lol :D

kel101 03-19-2008 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 458906)
So for the last half an hour I've been working on this "video". If you watch it, it will tell you everything about your computer, from your username to your processor load.. Seriously, it works! (it's QC based obviously)
It only works if you view it from a Mac.. running Tiger or above.. and with Quicktime.. :D

In the attachment you'll find the 36kb video and it's 32kb source file :)
Enjoy! :D
:eek: WITCHCRAFT :eek:

fazstp 03-19-2008 06:29 PM
Probably sends your bank details back to the mothership while it's at it ;)

Felix_MC 03-19-2008 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazstp
Probably sends your bank details back to the mothership while it's at it
Lol, I wish, :D
The guys over at apple are pretty smart, they don't allow quicktime to forward any outputs, and even if you view it in quartz composer, it would still be impossible, hence the only host information I can pull out of your computer is usernames, ip's, and specs :p, and even those are almost impossible to forward without a "trigger", and that itself is hard enough to do and it's not even guaranteed it's going to work.. the closest thing I got to forwarding an output "outside" the patch, is by launching a URL, via a keyboard controller.. that was fun.. used it for my "Xmas Countdown" screen saver that was available this last xmas.. I also used a patch that checked for a new version, and let you update your version by a single keystroke, directly from the screen saver.. pretty cool for a code-less "app", huh? (I'm getting a bit off-topic:D)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kel101
WITCHCRAFT
Are you guys going to burn me on a pyre like they did in the old days:D?

NovaScotian 03-20-2008 09:42 AM
I did download it again, Felix, and discovered this: It runs as advertised from the viewer in Quartz Composer, but fails entirely when run from QuickTime.

Felix_MC 03-20-2008 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian
I did download it again, Felix, and discovered this: It runs as advertised from the viewer in Quartz Composer, but fails entirely when run from QuickTime.
Glad it works :)
If you want to convert it into a movie again you can just go to File>Export as QuickTime Movie, in Quartz Composer
Hope it was worth the trouble, lol ;)

kel101 03-20-2008 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian (Post 459200)
I did download it again, Felix, and discovered this: It runs as advertised from the viewer in Quartz Composer, but fails entirely when run from QuickTime.
well only one of the clips works for me in quicktime, the one called quartz composer source

NovaScotian 03-20-2008 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 459262)
Glad it works :)
If you want to convert it into a movie again you can just go to File>Export as QuickTime Movie, in Quartz Composer
Hope it was worth the trouble, lol ;)
I was just testing it for you FMC -- I don't need the data.

Felix_MC 03-20-2008 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kel101
well only one of the clips works for me in quicktime, the one called quartz composer source
That's actually the quartz composer source file (notice the .qtz extension ;)), with all the patches and the cool stuff inside. But yes, qc files are quicktime compatible, so if you don't have QC installed, they will open by default in QT. Guess I didn't think of that before :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian
I was just testing it for you FMC -- I don't need the data.
Alright -- sorry :)

kel101 03-21-2008 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 459287)
That's actually the quartz composer source file (notice the .qtz extension ;)), with all the patches and the cool stuff inside. But yes, qc files are quicktime compatible, so if you don't have QC installed, they will open by default in QT. Guess I didn't think of that before :p

Alright -- sorry :)
Regardless, its still witchcraft :eek::eek::eek::eek:

Felix_MC 03-21-2008 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kel101
Regardless, its still witchcraft
It's just the magic of Quartz Composer :D

I've actually tried to put this on YouTube once, but it obviously didn't work, hence all YouTube videos are H.264 encoded, and not compatible with QT or QC.. Didn't know that then..lol :p

ThreeDee 03-21-2008 08:21 PM
Sorry if this is going OT again:

I'm in high school, and find it is REALLY difficult to have to wake up at 5:30/6:00 AM to get ready for school, after going to sleep at ~11:00 PM (and that's on a 'good' night). Because I live in a semi-rural area, I can't simply walk to the school (which is a good few miles away), and I don't have a full driver's license yet (not like my parents would let me drive anyway). Where I live, classes start at 7:00, and the school buses come to my stop at around 6:35.

There's been a ton of studies on teen sleeping habits, and all of them have shown that some hormone 'forces' many of teens (including me) to stay awake longer, as a inherited trait from hundreds of years ago (learned this fact in school, BTW). Obviously my parents won't believe that. I mean, even before I learned of this, I would lay in my bed for a while and not feel tired at all! Unless I have some sort of unknown sleeping condition...

Anyway, some other students in my school are still half-asleep when they arrive, and I just can't concentrate on geometry and biology (my first 2 classes) that early in the morning with only 5-7 hours of sleep. I'm having a hard time trying to absorb information while falling asleep.

Currently, the high schoolers (including me) start classes at 7:00. The junior high and middle school students start at 8:00, and the kindergarten to 4th graders start at 9:00 (lucky them).

Finally, the school board decided 'investigating' into alternate scheduling plans for school hours. They would have the HS students and the junior high students start school at the same time, but then they would need to have twice the amount of busses out on the road, which would cost about twice as much to fund.

This plan was then added to the school district's budget plan, and needed to be voted on by the townspeople for it to be passed. It seems like nobody wanted their taxes to increase (well, nobody does), so the plan didn't pass.

So, I'm still stuck waking up at 5:45 to prepare for school and wait for the bus.

-_- Oh how I hate this...

seeker777 03-21-2008 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeDee (Post 459522)
Last edited by ThreeDee : Today at 08:29 PM. Reason: typoe
ThreeDee, are you and FMC in the same school, or is that just another typoe...:D You two need to get more sleep. No more Coca-Cola and Starbucks. OK;)

Felix_MC 03-21-2008 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeDee
I'm in high school, and find it is REALLY difficult to have to wake up at 5:30/6:00 AM to get ready for school, after going to sleep at ~11:00 PM (and that's on a 'good' night). Because I live in a semi-rural area, I can't simply walk to the school (which is a good few miles away), and I don't have a full driver's license yet (not like my parents would let me drive anyway). Where I live, classes start at 7:00, and the school buses come to my stop at around 6:35.
I find it very difficult to wake up at 6:30 AM, and I don't know what I would do if I had to wake up an hour earlier.. Well, then again, at 11:00 PM, I'm just heading off to take a shower, and then it takes another 10 minutes to dry my hair (which is long and awesome, may I add;))..
I too have the "pleasure" of riding a school bus, but at least my dad drives me to the bus stop on his way to work.. I don't my have license yet neither, haven't even been to DMV yet, but my dad said that if I get my license by this summer, he's going to leave me his 1992 Red Chrysler New Yorker, and get himself a new car.. It isn't much, but it's a working car at least :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeDee
There's been a ton of studies on teen sleeping habits, and all of them have shown that some hormone 'forces' many of teens (including me) to stay awake longer, as a inherited trait from hundreds of years ago (learned this fact in school, BTW). Obviously my parents won't believe that. I mean, even before I learned of this, I would lay in my bed for a while and not feel tired at all! Unless I have some sort of unknown sleeping condition...
Lol, so true..
I haven't tried this on my parents, but I don't think it's even worth to try ;)..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeDee
Anyway, some other students in my school are still half-asleep when they arrive, and I just can't concentrate on geometry and biology (my first 2 classes) that early in the morning with only 5-7 hours of sleep. I'm having a hard time trying to absorb information while falling asleep.
Again, so true.. Sometimes I fall asleep on the bus and wake up when the bus arrives at school..
The worst part is we have the same exact classes every day, and it kinda stinks, since you have to do work and study for all of them.. It's pretty tiring .. I almost fell asleep during my last block the other day..
I actually tried to "make a difference" like they teach us in school, and send a letter to the Dean (being as "formal" and polite as possible :p) suggesting a different schedule, but they called me in the office the next day.. They thought it was a joke, and I was about to get in trouble.. but then I remembered what they thought us in Civics and I told the lady that it was my right under the 1st amendment to petition.. she looked at me for a minute, and then she just let me off with a warning.. good thing I didn't fall asleep in Civics :cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeDee
This plan was then added to the school district's budget plan, and needed to be voted on by the townspeople for it to be passed. It seems like nobody wanted their taxes to increase (well, nobody does), so the plan didn't pass.
Nothing ever gets passed if it includes raising taxes.. lol:rolleyes:..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeDee
-_- Oh how I hate this...
Lol, I'm joining the club ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker777
ThreeDee, are you and FMC in the same school, or is that just another typoe...:D You two need to get more sleep. No more Coca-Cola and Starbucks. OK;)
I don't think we are in the same school, though it would be awfully funny and cool if we were :p
Hail to the sleep! Who invented the day with only 24 hours? They should have made it like 30. Then again, we'd just probably stay awake the 24 and sleep the 6 XD :D
I don't drink Coca-Cola, I prefer Pepsi, though right now I'm staring at a sexy can of Sprite, just waiting for me to open it up..lol.. it says "NO COFFEINE" on it, so I guess that's good :)
Besides, Spring Break just started today for me, so guess what? You guys are in luck! You're going to have a full week of me, with no more school& homework breaks! How much luckier can you guys get :D?:rolleyes:

(and, umm, yea, sorry about the excess of smilies ;))

kel101 03-22-2008 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 459536)
I'm staring at a sexy can of Sprite, just waiting for me to open it up
thats wrong on so many levels ( maybe you need to see the uk sprite ads to get that)

Felix_MC 03-22-2008 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kel101
thats wrong on so many levels ( maybe you need to see the uk sprite ads to get that)
Maybe some youtube links would help, lol ;)?:D

kel101 03-22-2008 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 459634)
Maybe some youtube links would help, lol ;)?:D
ah i was about to do that but i got called away, here is the only one i could find, and its not on youtube :( its not even the advert, i guess coke banned posting of it http://www.visit4info.com/static/advert_pages/15878.cfm

Basically the premise of the ads, had someone asking say their bf for a sprite at the petrol station, the bf returns with a sprite but not the "sexy beverage" but the evil creature in the picture above

Felix_MC 04-02-2008 09:55 PM
Well, kinda late now, but I've got came up with another very useless way to counting the number of F's programatically.. :D
I wrote a long and frustrating program on my TI-84 Plus Silver Edition calculator :p
It should be compatible with any TI-83 calculators or higher..
here's a code legend, since some stuff on the calculator can't be typed on the keyboard, and stuff..
-> is equivalent to the STO (store) key on the calculator.
Ø is equivalent to the crossed crossed zero variable on the calculator (forgot what it's called). It's found by pressing Alpha+3
Disp is the display command, not text.. It's found in PRGM>I/O>3
Code:
:0->A
:0->B
:0->C
:0->D
:0->E
:1->F
:0->G
:0->H
:0->I
:0->J
:0->K
:0->L
:0->M
:0->N
:0->O
:0->P
:0->Q
:0->R
:0->S
:0->T
:0->U
:0->V
:0->W
:0->X
:0->Y
:0->Z
:F+I+N+I+S+H+E+D+F+I+L+E+S+A+R+E+T+H+E+R+E+S+U+L+T+O+F+Y+E+A+R+S+O+F+S+C+I+E+N+T+I+F+I+C+S+T+U+D+Y+C+O+M+B+I+N+E+D+W+I+T+H+T+H+E+E+X+P+E+R+I+E+N+C+E+O+F+Y+E+A+R+S->Ø
:DISP Ø
:DISP "FELIX ROCKS :D"

Felix_MC 06-21-2008 10:50 PM
So... I was bored... again :p
Here's another way to count F's using C++ this time... Enjoy?;)
Code:
#include <iostream>
#include <string>
using namespace std;

int main (int argc, char * const argv[]) {
        string Text = "FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS";
        int Accumulator = 0;
        int chars = Text.size();
        for (int i = 0;i < chars;i++){
                if (Text[i] == 'F'){
                        Accumulator += 1;
                }
        }
        cout << "There are " << Accumulator << " F's";
    return 0;
}

kel101 06-22-2008 03:39 AM
You all have way to much free time on your hands...

Felix_MC 06-22-2008 09:26 AM
I know.. This summer is boring... :o

fazstp 09-02-2008 11:30 PM
Hey Felix you seem to be the Quartz guru around here. Is it possible to take a capture from the built in iSight and save it to a jpeg? Kind of like PhotoBooth but with better resolution. I understand Quartz Composer can access the iSight at a higher resolution?

I just want to capture some CD covers and I don't have a scanner.

Felix_MC 09-03-2008 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazstp (Post 491542)
Hey Felix you seem to be the Quartz guru around here. Is it possible to take a capture from the built in iSight and save it to a jpeg? Kind of like PhotoBooth but with better resolution. I understand Quartz Composer can access the iSight at a higher resolution?

I just want to capture some CD covers and I don't have a scanner.
well, it can't save it as a JPEG by itself (unless I import it to an xcode project and do some coding) but it does have a build-in PNG feature. However, I'm not sure if it will get a better resolution than PhotoBooth, since PhotoBooth itself is one big Quartz composition. Then again, PhotoBooth generates images differently then a normal composition would. So, I'll post back in 10 minutes with a working prototype :p

Felix_MC 09-03-2008 08:03 PM
okay, that was more like 3 hours rather than 10 minutes, but I didn't actually work 3 hours on it. I had to go eat dinner then do my homework before my mom let me on the computer again. Anyway, here's what I have:
http://tgraphicz.890m.com/Smile%20Please.dmg.zip
It works like screen saver, you just use the drag and drop installer to install it then go to System Preferences and ScreenSavers to select it. Click on "options" and you'll be able to change the save location of the image, and the seconds interval between isight snapshots. Click 'Test' and enjoy :p
The screen saver will announce you before it takes snapshots. It will save the image as a PNG to the selected destination (it might have a long weird name though, like 'img000-52358.png'). It will save it to the highest dimensions provided by your isight camera. Hope it does what you're looking for. Please, do tell me if you'd like me to change anything. :)


BTW: I don't have a webcam, so I couldn't really test it out, but theoretically it should work ;)

NovaScotian 09-03-2008 08:26 PM
Interesting, but unfortunately choosing the target under options didn't work, so I have no idea in the world where the defaults went (and since I don't know what they're called, can't find them)

Felix_MC 09-03-2008 08:31 PM
By default the target path is your home directory, unless the path was invalid in which case the image writing patch would have crashed at execution, and no image would have been saved. Also, for some reason with Quartz Composer input text field, in order for Quartz Composer to receive your input, you have to press 'return' rather than clicking the 'done' button in the screen saver options.

NovaScotian 09-03-2008 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_MC (Post 491740)
By default the target path is your user directory, unless the path was invalid in which case the image writing patch would have crashed at execution, and no image would have been saved. Also, for some reason with Quartz Composer input text field, in order for Quartz Composer to receive your input, you have to press 'return' rather than clicking the 'done' button in the screen saver options.
No images were saved in ~/ (and I used return for Done), so something wrong.

Felix_MC 09-03-2008 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaScotian (Post 491742)
No images were saved in ~/ (and I used return for Done), so something wrong.
hmm, that's strange.
To test it, I looked for my old USB webcam, and plugged it into my computer. After installing Macam the camera was finally recognized by my mac. I tested it out with the screen saver, and everything seemed to work..
Tell me, when the screen saver is running, do you see your iSight's video feed on the screen? It's set to stretch to fit the whole screen. Also, do you have any other apps open that are using the iSight? Such as iChat maybe, even though you are not in a video conversation. Lastly, go to applications/utilities/console, and in the 'String Matching' search box in the top right corner enter "QC".
Are there any results coming up, especially from the "_eference" sender? What do they say under 'message'?


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