The problem is that lobbying dollars have more power than votes, and corporations don't have mortgages to pay or children to feed and cloth, so it's easy to invest in lobbying. It's easier still when you consider the huge return they get.

Nothing but competition and the consumer's buying power.

Why would you assume that some central organization would do this? It only brings us back to the same problem as the FCC.

Which is A) Easily manipulated by large corporations, and B) trivial compared to an oligopoly that is transforming into a monopoly as smaller competitors get bought out or crushed by rules set by their larger competitors.
It's remotely possible that it wouldn't be a central organization, at least at first. Over a short time, power would be consolidated. We would end up with a situation where there appears to be competition, but there really isn't. Take spaghetti sauce as an example: Ragu, Five Brothers, and a couple of others were owned by Unilever when I was there, (I don't believe they've sold any of their brands) and they appeared to compete on store shelves, but obviously, they weren't/aren't competing.

Spurious harmonics up and down the spectrum...
 

OK but there HAS to be some regulatory agency. In the early days of radio, sloppy transmitters would ruin it for everyone else. Spurious harmonics up and down the spectrum is like pollution, and in the electromagnetic spectrum you are essentially anonymous. Without some regulation, it would be like the mafia, with jamming, vandalism, and turf wars running rampant. Look at what happens on the internet when users are guaranteed complete anonymity.

Of course, that "regulatory agency" could (and should be, in my opinion) citizen vigilantes. Amateur radio operators have performed very well with the "Volunteer Frequency Coordinator", who ensures clear channels in crowded areas. They also have "posses" who hunt down unlicensed transmitters and report perpetraters to the FCC. This system should be implemented on a wide scale throughout society.

The problem really is centralization. Following Gnarly's lead, wouldn't it be better if for transmitters below a certain power, control of spectrum and behavior resided in the hands of communities?

Yes, centralization is a problem, but corporate power is beyond that of local communities. In my wife's home town, there's a (corporate owned) drug store being built within a quarter mile of at least two others, and there are more drug stores throughout the town. The building department tried to halt the construction because the company hadn't gotten permission to put another drug store in. The company is fighting it, and will very likely win, even though few people want another drug store in town. The town just doesn't have the money to fight them. The old saw that you can't beat City Hall only applies if you're just a citizen.

And there are no other brands? If they raised the price by fifty cents per bottle, would there be no competitors? All you're doing is proving my point; they can maintain a monopoly as long as the consumers consent OR there is a government regulation preventing competition.

No, there just need to be rules. They don't have to be enforced by one more agency; our legal and court system can also be used by those harmed.

So you want to use government to PREVENT more competition? Wow.

Consumers don't give consent to this: they're completely unaware. I can't remember which ones, but Unilever owns at least two more than those I listed.
You've apparently never had to deal with our legal system.
Edit: And you've apparently missed the entire point of my post! If a small city cannot successfully challenge in court a corporation that has violated its zoning laws by not getting the proper permits, what makes you think that average citizens could hope for any recourse?
Not at all. I don't care whether or not that drug store opens. I'm just pointing out that the local government cannot control it. In fact, for large companies like Microsoft, the EU looks like a pesky local government that's causing them some minor irritation. A town of 30,000 people wouldn't show up on their radar.

An all-consuming lust for power...
 

Huh? You are severely deluded, Alvarez! That may have been true in the days of Richard Nixon. But by Ronald Reagan, deregulation meant that greedy corporations would follow the "guidelines" out of the kindness of their heart. But there asn't any such kindness, only an all-consuming lust for power.

To this day, giant transnational corporations have every advantage of relocating offshore to evade environmental and tax laws. Meanwhile, local businesses are forced to pay the price for not offshoring. The message is, our current corporate model is sociopathic. Any person who behaves in such a greedy and socially damaging manner is called a criminal, and locked up or otherwise institutionalized. Giant Corporations, however, are praised as "increasing stockholder value.

We worship money, it is the ultimate criterion for everything, the bowing down to a graven image. Like it says on our money, "In God we Trust".

I would have to say there does need to be some sort of committee to regulate what big businesses do. My ex is a lawyer, and I got an earful of the legal system from her perspective, as a lawyer. I also have a friend in the health care business. The health care business in our country is so not what it seems. First off, everyone thinks that we have the best health care in the world, which is not true. We are actually 37th, Costa Rica is higher than us.

See this: http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Now, when you let big companies take over health care they only look at profit, thus tons of people get denied coverage. There are more medical lobbyist than any other industry in our government, and they donate a lot of money to political campaigns. If you think politicians and government can not be bought off you are living in a world of delusion.

Our whole system needs an overhaul, it all needs to be redone. I am not saying I have the answers because I don't, but I do know that our system will fail us eventually and leave a huge gaping hole between the lower and upper class. The gap is already getting bigger and bigger. There are more millionaires now per a capita in the US than in the entire history of our country, and people think that is great. In reality its not, because the prices of everything have sky rocketed over the years and the value of our dollar has gone down. The rich keep getting way more richer and the middle class seems to stay right where it is.

Companies also find every tax loop hole in the world to keep their money and to cheat taxes. I am actually for this, because I hate the IRS and I hate how I am taxed for every damn thing I do. I also hate general funds, but that is more government than it is big business. The fact is, if we were to privatize everything it would be bad for the consumer unless it was highly regulated.

Our legal system is already tied up enough as it is, and certain government agencies already have more than enough power. So, what is it we do about this? I am not sure, but I think it would have to start at the root, and we should reform some of our government, adjust our economy and focus on things that benefit our citizens. Health care and education I think are big time screwed up systems run by the private sector (excluding state schools). The problem is, that education is a state level thing, so there would have to be some sort of federal policy or something to come into play. This would take it out of the private corporation's hands. Man is just too greedy by nature and can not be trusted, and that holds true to even the government side of things.

I just think we need change all over the place to make our country a better place, and that our current system is doomed to fail eventually.

How do we ever change anything if our votes don't count? Check this out:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/voting_machine_mess

Got the chance to vote on one of these touch screen machines during the last national election. After making my choices, the machine gave me one chance to verify my votes before recording them ---- six of my choices had been changed on the review screen. I changed my choices back and submitted the ballot. I have no idea who I actually voted for.... did the machine change them again? The wife voted on the machine next to mine and had the identical experience, including the same candidates. I checked with a friend who votes in the same precinct.... same experience for both husband and wife.

Sure I reported the anomaly to the volunteers working the precinct, all of whom assured me it was okay. Well, it isn't okay... even if the machine didn't operate the same way twice (fat chance), how many people missed the fact their vote had changed? There can be no recount because there is nothing to check against the machine.... no paper.

So, I shot off a hot email to the State Election Commission. They did not respond, not even to acknowledge the receipt of my complaint (no doubt swamped with similar complaints). I didn't vote in the last local election. Friends who did tell me the machines are still changing their votes.

I have now joined the great masses of the unwashed who never vote, they were right all along. Being a registered voter has gotten me nothing but twelve months of jury duty!

Just a wild guess, but I'd be surprised if many those voting machines weren't using the most frequently compromised OS on the planet.

Ha! I'd really like to think this is just a software glitch. In my part of the country, machine politics has a whole different meaning.

As our Governor once said, "Vote early, vote often" ... only partially in jest.

the voting machines are all closed source proprietary coded OSes, made by private companies.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33137/118/

There are four major companies that make voting machines and they have been known to have been compromised. This includes the ones in Florida last presidential election.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...rnia_voti.html

From the link:
Bold Itals added.


As I thought, they do use the world's most frequently compromised OS.

Pardon me for being quaintly revolutionary, but the current power structure lends itself to corporate control. Something will have to change fundamentally in order to stop that.

I concur, our current linear system only has the outcome of what is currently happening. If we don't change it at the root of the problem(s) how can we ever expect anything to change? We need to change to a more adaptive system that can be ever changing and growing, but in more positive manners. Honestly, that is all probably a pipe dream and will never happen.

If history is any indicator, it will have to happen eventually. Governments constantly evolve/change/implode in response to public demand. The question is whether or not it happens gradually and peacefully or suddenly and violently. For the record, I would prefer the former. I just wonder how that might be accomplished in todays political climate.

True. The problem is that it will take a long time and significant abuses before you get a worldwide revolution, and anything done locally (by a single nation) is easily painted by the right wing as being Socialism or Communism. The real solution would be much more nuanced, with countries protecting their workers and their Sovereignty but not engaging in us vs them politics — unless you count corporate fat cats as them. ;)

I think this is becoming more important as our technology improves, since it's the technology that is upsetting the labor/management balance by reducing the need for labor.

That will never happen...
 

I don't think that will ever happen, because like I said in my first post here, this is Friendly Fascism.

After World War 2 and seeing the mob takeover of Germany, the US Government took action. Their deepest fear was that dissatisfied citizens would take to the streets wreaking havoc on the infrastructure. Government invested heavily in the emerging sciences of Mass Psychology, Public Relations, and eventually in Focus Groups. As a result, the majority of us are manipulated minutely into being just satisfied enough to cling to the existing paradigm. But not satisfied too much, lest we become lazy and unproductive.

We don't even know to what extent the Public Relations Machine controls our thoughts and actions. I suggest you download and watch the 4 episode BBC production "The Century of the Self", which will never be shown in America. It is downloadable on BitTorrent. You will see what I mean by "Friendly Fascism".