excellent. and by that reasoning, you would not possibly object to cwt calling you a fascist, so long as he believes that you espouse all the fascist ideas that he knows of. glad we could settle this. :)

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but if you mean would I like to see the iPhone sold by multiple carriers, yes, but I don't see that being the government's job. If music vendors want to sell their music, then they should sell it. Adding DRM strikes me as dishonest in that they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. DRM is for rentals.

Now if Apple creates a mess producing iPhones, they ought to be required to clean it up, and I wouldn't have a problem with the US Government requiring them to clean up the mess in another country. That pollution, or its affects would find its way here in one form or another.

I agree, but I hope you're aware that "this power" calls itself conservative.

I just want to say that I didn't think Carlos meant me in particular at the time, and I didn't mean him either, although I did leave the door open if he cared to step into that role. ;) Honestly, I don't know anyone who's truly conservative to the point of Fascism or liberal to the point of socialism.

What scares me is politicians who whip people into a frenzy about manufactured issues so that they can manipulate the system. Can anybody tell me what business school prayer or flag burning could legitimately have in a Presidential campaign? When I see things like that, and then Newspeak like "No child left behind" then I start thinking that 1984 is just around the corner.


For anyone not familiar with 1984.

You can call me anything you want. I will however post the definition if your usage is incorrect.

Unfortunately I'm well aware of the bastardization of that word in the current way it is used. I would probably fit the original conservative definition, but have very little in common with those taking the word today.

hmmm... the bar you set for your own use of the term 'socialist' was reasonable belief given your current understanding of the world:
dictionary definitions or other third-party attempts at defining meaning did not come into the issue. by those standards, cwt has a perfect right to call you (or anyone) fascist, and so long as he has a 'reasonable belief' that that is the case, he cannot (by your own definition) be wrong. or are you holding a double standard, here, where your 'reasonable beliefs' ought to count as facts, while other people's 'reasonable beliefs' only count as opinions?

I'll add that the one definition you posted was not to correct cwt's usage of the word fascism, as you claim, but rather to suggest that cwt's beliefs were even more fascist. not exactly kosher, that...

so, which standard are we going to use?

I don't care, you win.

Labels are, of course, generalizations. I tend to be liberal on social issues, conservative on economic issues, and Libertarian on political issues.... or even Socialist leaning (my definition of Socialist) on some issues such as Medicare, Social Security, and national health care. Contradictory, isn't it? Most of us are.

What we believe is irrelevant except when we go to the polls and vote. You need only look at the last candidate you voted for who won, and that's who and what you are in the only arena that matters. (This assumes the votes were actually counted, but that's another issue for another time.)

As I get older, the more I have come to recognize that it is not corrupt, abusive corporations or even the federal bureaucracy that most impact my life. They are not the ones who infringe on my personal freedoms the most. They are not the ones who have the most impact on my pocket book. That honor goes to state and local governments. I paid more in state and local taxes last year than I sent to Uncle Sam. It was the state Utilities Commission that negotiated a huge rate increase for electricity in a budget that included large bonuses for dozens of the utility's executives. The same Commission also approved an equally large increase for natural gas in a state that has extremely low taxes on natural gas production. Sure glad we regulate those utilities!

In the last Presidential election in my congressional district, the majority of votes went to a conservative President, a conservative Governor, one of the most liberal Congressmen in Washington DC and two liberal Senators. All were elected.

No wonder our leadership seems to lack direction.

it's not about winning, it's about making sense.

The way I see it, moving jobs to save a little on labor costs while keeping your prices the same or raising them, and successfully lobbying Congress for tax breaks for large corporations does have a huge impact on all of our pocket books. I would have no problem giving tax breaks to Big Oil for example, if they cleaned up after themselves (the Valdez spill for example, is still a problem almost twenty years later) and if they were investing in American workers while seriously (less than a few days profit per year isn't serious) developing alternative sources of energy.

When was the last time you bought something other than food which wasn't manufactured on the Pacific Rim?

Okay... but how do you change anything if:

1. Your vote is not counted. (Have you seen the new touch screen voting machines that do not produce a paper copy of your vote.... you cannot verify who you voted for and so no recount is possible?)

2. Your fellow citizens vote consistently for grid lock.

3. Federal policy is directed in such a way as to support the moneyed interests and the stock market, regardless of party.

4. Economic prosperity is measured by GNP/GDP, regardless of the fact that virtually all of the increase is going to the moneyed few.

5. The conservatives run up the national debt to absurd numbers while the feds hold down interest rates to avoid inflicting the pain of illogical economic policy. (Wonder why the dollar is falling?) And the last time we had a balanced budget, it was under the control of the tax and spend liberals? Huh?

Just one example of what I'm talking about. Huge tax cuts that dollar wise went overwhelmingly to the very well to do was followed by a housing boom.... 40 percent of the homes purchased in 2006 went to the wealthy as second homes or investment properties. Prices zoomed upward -- too many dollars chasing too few goods. The effect on Joe six pack is the price of a FIRST home is completely and maybe forever out of sight for his family because his wages were pretty much stagnant through this period. The rich got richer and the poor got poorer. When the bubble burst, the conservatives put forth government intervention to ease the pain on the lenders (protect the moneyed interests). And, of course, the bankruptcy laws were rewritten to remove the only chance Joe six pack had of ever making a recovery.

6. Our manufacturing base is slowly disappearing to foreign interests.... and the conservatives think a flat tax or a so called "Fair Tax" is the answer. And it seems they all support "free trade," even when it's not "fair trade" and no comparative advantage exists between the trading partners.

7. In the meantime back home, state/local sales taxes are pushing 10 percent, and yes we tax food. Utilities rates have doubled in the past few years. Property get reassessed every couple years and property taxes adjusted upward (housing boom didn't help here, either.) We tax used car purchases. Our public schools are failing so we throw huge dollar amounts at them, with no results. Our jails are overcrowded and need more money. There is no end in sight.

Oh, woe is me!

Exactly. And to add injury on top of injury, it doesn't seem to be improving the lives of the people in those countries. China has pollution on a scale never seen in America, India is still basically poor, etc. Where is the benefit of this allegedly free market?