But they do mention that the Mac shines. Like practically all of their marketing, it's subtle, but there.

In the PR ad, PC says "...and with your new operating system Leopard and its 'cool' features, some people might even switch to you..."

On the podium PC says, "...if Mac's new Leopard operating system has dozens of new features, I say ignore them!"

The boxer ad has the announcer saying that his "brother in law just got a Mac, and loves it!"

If you read the comments regarding these ads in Digg, they are extremely unfavorable. Apple is posturing itself as being more smart alec than innovative--and that is not good.

Read again my idea for an ad. It pokes fun, but really illustrates the strength of Leopard.
http://forums.macosxhints.com/showpo...62&postcount=3

I read a few, and it seems the PC fan boys are getting testy. Vista is a mess, XP is long in the tooth, the Mac is picking up market share, and the iPod and iPhone are dominating their markets. Honestly, I don't think any Apple ad could possibly sit well with people whose jobs are based on Windows, especially now.

I agree with what you say.

There are lots of issues, though, that aren't amenable to oversimplification, and that is what's necessary to create a 30 sec ad. One of the major problems with the overall effort is that comprehension of computer features, in general, requires some level of intelligence that is much higher than the level of intelligence of the typical TV watcher. (Yes, it's a generalization, but I believe it's valid, in this case.)

There are ego issues involved in comparative advertising. Earlier in this thread, mention was made of how effective the "our product is better than yours" approach was, and beer was one of the examples. If someone is told that he made a mistake in spending five bucks on an inferior product, it's not that big a deal to his ego. He'll finish off his current "inferior" six-pack, and perhaps try the allegedly superior product next time.

However, when you've invested $2-3 K or more in a product and someone shows you what a dumsh-t you are because here is a better product, the impact on the ego will tend to result in resentment and defensiveness - not to the inferior product he had purchased, but to the messenger that just told him that he was a dumsh-t. That's just human nature.

The secret to comparative advertising is to display the superiority of your product without damage to the ego of the user of the inferior product. So far, I don't believe the Apple ads have been able to do that.

To Mac aficionados, whose egos are not slammed by the put-downish nature, they often appear clever, humorous, etc., etc. To others, they are insulting, condescending, and arrogant.

Given the virtually unlimited informational resources regarding human behavior and psychology available to advertising companies, I cannot comprehend why they can't come up with better stuff. Even more, I cannot comprehend why Apple continues with the same ad agency that only seems to create ads that seem to appeal only to those that are already convinced about Apple's superiority, and not to those who aren't.

If this is true, then Ford drivers must be livid about BMW ads claiming to be the ultimate driving machine. They're not though, and most PC users aren't unhappy with Apple. People who make a living fixing and selling Fords probably wouldn't be happy with BMW ads if it looked like BMW might take significant market share from Ford, as Apple threatens to do to Windows.

Do you know of any reliable sources that can show that Mac sales are increasing at a faster rate than home/business computer sales overall?

I often hear how Macs are picking up market share, but I've never seen any statistical evidence from which that conclusion can be logically drawn. I'm not trying to imply that it is not true; I'd just like to see the evidence before I accept it as fact.

I think we're talking about apples (pun not intended) and oranges.

First of all, the typical Ford buyer is not likely to have been able to afford the BMW when he bought the Ford. Therefore, it's not as if he thinks he made a "mistake" when he bought the Ford for $x K rather than the BMW for $2x or $3x K. I'd be willing to bet that many (if not most) Ford owners would agree that, except for the price, they'd rather have a BMW.

Secondly, the BMW ad is not nearly so "in your face" that you are a dumsh-t for having bought Ford instead of BMW. In fact, most, if not all, BMW ads don't even mention the competition by brand, they just state that they are superior. And then they explain why (I make no claim that their explanations are truthful and/or sensible).

True, and I believe it's primarily because they haven't been convinced (by the ads) that Apple really is particularly superior. However, they do feel (and this is just anecdotal based on comments from numerous PC users I know) that the advertisements are an attempt to insult, rather than to inform. I would expect, however, that people who have bought a PC only to have found that Mac is superior, no matter how they came to that realization, would feel embarassment at the Mac ads that, for all practical purposes, come right out and say "What a dumsh-t you are".

I only know what I've read, and I certainly haven't read anything indicating that their market share isn't growing.
I guess that's what I'm getting at here. Buying a PC isn't exactly smart (Cheap isn't smart. It's cheap, and it will cost you!), and there just isn't a nice way to tell some one that they've made a dumb move.

Oh, and the PC users you know aren't the ones the ads are aimed at. Apple isn't going to convert them anytime soon. The ads are aimed at the majority of PC users who bought a PC because that's what they were told to buy by the salesman or their IT guy. It's no insult to them to be told that there's a better computer they can get.

Heres your proof...
 

Heres you're proof:
http://blogs.business2.com/apple/200...mac-sales.html

Might not grown the most, but I would say 26.2% is a pretty significant...

It is all subjective, fanboys are fanboys regardless of platform and they exist on all sides. I agree that the Mac ads were funny at first and I laughed but now it just seems like they are being pretentious, and not really proving a point. It seems more like name calling, or labeling. Whatever, though, commercials do not dictate what technology I buy, nor will they ever.

Also, cheap is not always the worst answer at all. I needed to build a file server for my home. $200 in parts and a free downloaded Linux Distro met my needs and it is very reliable and works great for what it is. Now, if I wanted to buy or build a PC for video games, then yes spending more money and getting the expensive gaming card is way more worth it. Also, for the record every PC I have built has lasted over 5 years. Every single one. I still have one in my closet I built back in 1998 and it still boots. So, I don't know where you are getting some of these facts about how cheaper always means it will cost more. I think it is all very subjective, and I can always build a PC for way cheaper than a Mac. Of course I am talking hardware versus hardware completely. Software is a different story, because I can probably find a FOSS linux version for the PC that is similar to any pay for Mac or Windows product. Also, I don't factor in niche markets either. Obviously some markets have certain requirements which helps them lean one way or another with certain technologies.

We just deployed (as in last Wednesday and Thursday) around 6,000 mac laptops (overall in 5 different buildings) at my work. I have about 10 on my desk right now that are defective. The building I am in charge of has about 1100 to 1200 laptops. For deploying that many at once, I think that having 10 or so defectives is really good. I actually expected more like 25 to 50 defectives in my building.

You're not counting the cost of your expertise, which would cost an average user many times more than the price of a Mac Pro. Unless you're willing to work for them for free?

Thank you. Comparing only one quarter of each of two years doesn't really constitute proof, but it does lend considerable credibility to the contention that the Mac's market share is increasing.

You're probably right about the "aimed at" part and you're absolutely, positively correct about the "isn't going to convert" part.

True, but it's gotta be done in a kind, gentle, non-scornful way, otherwise, it is insulting. IMO, the current ads do not deliver in that regard.

To be honest, I'm not convinced that there is a way to do that in a 30 second TV commercial.

(Here's a challenge that can illustrate what I'm trying to get at: Tell your wife and/or girlfriend that she isn't nearly as beautiful or sexy as <insert name of glamourous, voluptuous movie starlet>, but if she went to a plastic surgeon, he could fix that. If you can do that without causing resentment/anger/hurt feelings you're a better man than 99.9999% of us. If you can take care of it all within 30 seconds, then you probably have a great future in the TV advertising business, too.)

You're welcome;) Glad I could help

I won't even try.. My gf is already jealous that I spend more time on my Mac then with her.. yes, I have issues...

Well, I like the new iPhone and iPod commercials. They are also made by Apple, aren't they? Why can't they make Mac commercials in the same positive way showing all the cool stuff their products can do.

Im not sure how much these commercials last, and please don't hate me for saying this, but I like the HP hand commercials better then the Apple commercials. The Apple were funny at first, when they came out, but now they are just annoying.. They HP commercials look more attractive, and talk about the things you can do on them, instead of poking fun at the competitor. From it I get what cool and fun stuff I can do on it as opposed to a Apple commercials, which pretty much says "Windows sux. Get a Mac"
Then again, what do I know, I'm only 14:rolleyes:

IMHO, that was a brilliant post, Pete. This is exactly what I was trying to say. I would not classify the Get a Mac ads as bad or good. However, it postures Apple as being smart-alec, and that is bad business practice. I could not even imagine my company remotely advertising like that! (We don't advertise btw).

I quoted this portion of your post because it cuts to the core of the gentle balance regarding the pulling in of new users. You don't want to embarrass or humiliate people for making a poor choice of platform. Remember, PCs do not last that long in the hands of the average person. So show them that next time, you can get a Macintosh and have a much less frustrating user experience.

My reasoning exactly. The iPhone, and especially the new iPod Touch commercials are what Apple SHOULD produce for the Macintosh. Show what the Mac can do, not how horrible Vista is. That is taking the low road.

Again, average is even subjective because the next generation of computer users are already building their own PCs. Tons and tons of teenagers are already doing this, and the numbers and getting bigger and bigger each year. Soon, your average user will be able to build a computer since it is becoming easier to build them and more people are doing it.

I agree that a lot of people just want a working out of the box solution, but at the same time I think there is a rather sizable user base that wants to build their own configuration from scratch.

Personal experience speaking here, but I almost didn't buy my Macbook because I was pissed off at the PC/Mac ads, particularly the "reboot" one that was airing earlier this year. Every Windows 2000/XP machine that I've built for myself has been rock solid software-wise. Unless I did something stupid like overtax a power supply or overclock beyond the limits of the hardware, I have never had to reboot any of them due to a lock up.

I can't comment on Vista; my current wants/needs are met by my headless Ubuntu server, my XP PC hooked up to my 50" plasma/surround sound, and my Macbook, meaning I haven't even researched the implications of moving up to Vista. But the Mac guy in the commercials still comes off to me as a giant douchebag hippy.

I would agree that there is a very loud user base that wants to build their own, but it is both a very small (always was & always will be) part of the market, and the one part of the market that Apple is not going to sell to, no matter what commercials they use. I think that this group is most offended by the Apple commercials, but they would take offense at, or at least be defensive about any Apple commercial, so it's not really an issue.

I would agree with most of this, but I'm working with an anecdotal sample space of one.

My son (age 26) is aware that Mac H/W will run Windows as well as (he's not convinced of the better, though) non-Mac PCs (what's the proper term for this nowadays, BTW? After all, Macs are personal computers, too.) He is also persuaded that Mac H/W quality is head and shoulders above the rest.

However, when he looked at the prices of "top of the line" Macs, he decided that if he built his own absolutely top-of-the-line PC, he could save a couple of $K, have a modular system in which he could easily replace (in a simple plug and play manner) things whenever "better" stuff came out (e.g., faster processor, better video card, better sound card, etc.) , and not be tied into a highly proprietary machine that is capable of only limited component upgrading which will become obsolescent (i.e., not top-of-the-line anymore, in his view) within 6 months. And, he says, that there's nothing anyone can do on a Mac, that a sophisticated user can't do on a PC.

Even after purchasing all the S/W he needs, he figures he will still be well over $1K ahead, and still have all of the advantages identified in the previous paragraph.

He is not offended by the Apple ads, he thinks they're silly and disingenuous - he thinks they're not germane to "sophisticated" computer users like him, and that they are intended for people with room-temperature IQs.

He also informs me that, according to his observations, the vast majority of the "build-your-own-machine" types are the hard-core "gamers", mostly kids, who wouldn't buy a Mac under any circumstances.

Well PC gaming is a multi billion dollar per year industry, so they are definitely part of the build your own PC crowd. However, there are plenty of other people who are what I would consider computer professionals that build their own PCs and run Linux, or build their own PC for their work. Now, on an enterprise level building a custom PC is a nightmare and I would never do it, but on an individual level it can be quite rewarding. Several of my friends that are web developers don't game all that much and they build all their own machines and many of their colleagues do as well. I think this sort of trend will catch on for anyone who works on their computer at home.

I think that the mac platform has higher quality control from the beginning because Apple designs everything from the ground up. Hardware, OS, and applications. However, that can be accomplished easily on the PC platform just by doing some research and using what works. With a Mac, for the most part, you don't have to worry about it. I think that a higher quality control doesn't mean higher quality but I can see why they have the price difference.

Gamers are not the only build your own PC crowd but they probably do take up the majority of it. With Mac gaming being a possible up and coming thing with the macs I can see the want and need for customizable Mac computers. I want to build a DVR PC with a bunch of home theater options and I am going to build a PC and run Linux. After researching everything that I wanted I saw that the best deal for my price and still getting high performance was to build a PC and run Linux for everything. Things like that are also going to be a niche market I suppose, but then again the Mac is also kind of a niche market.