Spaces design question...
 

Since Apple announced Spaces, it seems development on all the third party virtual desktop applications came to a screeching halt... which is unfortunate because many of them were far superior to what Spaces has to offer. But of all the functionality Spaces is lacking, I would be fine with one addition: if you could designate applications which do *not* switch the space when activated.

I've grown pretty accustomed to having Safari windows on multiple desktops -- I split my spaces up based on tasks I'm working on, so I might want a web page open to php.net on a space I'm using for PHP development, another window open to a C++ reference for another project in a different space, and maybe another Safari window open to news/youtube/whatever on a space for screwing around. And it's great to be able to open a safari window anywhere anytime you need it by Command-Tab to Safari, then Command-N. But with Spaces in Leopard, Command-Tab to Safari will take you to the Space assigned to Safari. The only other option is to put Safari on all Spaces, which clearly isn't what I want either. It seems most of the third party Virtual Desktop apps allowed this in Tiger, but had various other annoying bugs (which never got fixed since 'Spaces' was coming). Now that Spaces is here, its lack of at least this feature is alarming. Basically, virtual desktop support for the mac seems to be eternally in its infancy. And don't get me started on Spaces + X11.app integration (or lack thereof), as someone who uses emacs remotely from many locations over X11, my productivity has been greatly affected with the Leopard upgrade. I'm assuming though that the X11 issues will be fixed soon.

Do people really use Spaces in a way such that one Application is confined to a Space? It seems like a space for a task is a much better way to go, that way you group all related windows together, windows you are most likely to look at in succession are next to each other on the same workspace. Have to switch tasks, or want to take a quick break? Switch to the appropriate space, and everything's over there. The current spaces design doesn't seem to jive well with this mode of operation.

--Phil

This feature is already there. In the Spaces prefs, choose an application and set it to be bound to "All Spaces".

Not really. As I mentioned in my post, binding an app to all spaces is not the same thing. If I were to bind Safari to all spaces, then all safari windows appear in all spaces. The Safari window I have open to php.net in my "PHP development" space would also appear in every other space.

What he said. :D I discovered this myself when messing around with Spaces this afternoon.

The third option --which you have not included-- is to simply
*not* tell Spaces anything about Safari at all. Take it all out.

How does that work?

[Then, use the popup menu on the Safari icon in the Dock: New Window.]

-HI-

I did discover that opening a new window from the popup menu in the dock doesn't switch the space, which is nice. I'm just very used to the Command-Tab functionality to switch back and forth between two apps. Even if you have a Safari window in the current space, command-tab switching to safari will change the space to wherever your first safari window is open. I guess I'm surprised that no one else finds that odd.

This bothers the hell out of me too. The more spaces you add, and the more apps you have on each one, the less deterministic the behavior becomes. I've had times when switching an app will jump back and forth through several spaces. As a keyboard guy, this annoys the hell out of me.

"Me too!"
 

I'll add another "me too" onto this. All my work gets done in the same applications, but I will generally have different windows open for different projects. Not to mention, I usually like to have different Safari windows on in each space. Every time I click on an icon in the dock, it brings me to a different space, which gets really disorienting when you're in the middle of something.

I really miss VirtueDesktops - Spaces does the overall interface well, but is completely missing the customizability that something like this requires.

Hey--

Yes, this is a serious problem for me as well. I use Firefox, which doesn't have an open new window option in the dock, making it even worse...

What's really bad though is the issue mentioned by MistaMuShu. In extensive tests, if I have application A open in spaces 1, 2, and 3 (different window in each); B in 1, C in 2, and D in 3, anytime I switch with command-tab into A, the space I'm dropped into is completely random! Unusable. I submitted a bug with Apple Bug Reporter; we'll see if they address it at all. If not, I dearly hope somebody with more skill than I creates an OS hack that makes this thing work logically.

Spaces was by far my most anticipated feature in Leopard, so this is a bummer.

What?

You've got some app "A" with separate windows open in separate spaces.
And you "Command-Tab into A". So, what is that *supposed* to achieve?
What can one realistically *expect* from such an action? You say the result
is random. Maybe so. Or maybe it went to the "frontmost" window in that app.
I don't know. What I do know is you're not using the feature in a logical manner.

If some app has separate windows open in separate spaces... forget
Command-Tab... forget Command-H. In a context such as that, one
should use control-1, control-2, control-3, control-4, etc., to achieve
any sane outcome. Used in that fashion, it works like a dream.

-HI-

What is broken in Spaces is "Command+~" which tabs you through the open windows of a app.

This still works if all windows of the same app are in the same space, but not if dispersed in spaces.

It seems to work logically. Exposé's Application Windows only shows the windows of the current Space, not all the windows of that app that are open in every Space.

The app's Dock icon allows you to cycle through the Spaces in which the app is open.

I would like to see New Window options in most all applications' Dock contextual menus, and an Open in Space… command in apps' File menus, which would open a pane to select a file and a Space. I think these are more integration details, and not issues with Spaces itself.

I must disagree, Hal Itosis. To me the correct behavior is obvious and simple: Bring the window (of the app I'm cmd-tabing into) that is in the active space to the forefront.

I (want to) work with, say, XCode & Activity Monitor & Safari open to programming pages in one space, and Word & Preview & Safari open to writing pages in another spaces, and still another task's applications & Safari in a third space. Then cmd-tab is (should be) used for switching between apps while working on a single task (which happens frequently) and control-# is used for switching between completely different tasks (which is less often).

-Nonnormalizable

In that example you give there, command-tab will work fine... going into
any app confined to *one* space. But command tabbing into Safari there
would be... imprecise... a crapshoot. Safari has windows in 3 spaces, so
I don't know how one could predict what will happen.

Somewhere I read if we click on the icon in the Dock (Safari's in this case),
Spaces will cycle through each possibility for each click. Anyway, feel free
to disagree all you like... however far that'll get you.

:cool:

That's the point! It should work the way I describe above, but they've designed it to be a crap shoot.

You're not thinking/communicating clearly.

Safari -- in the particular scenario you presented -- has
separate windows open in seperate spaces. So... tell us
exactly what do you *expect* to happen when command-
tabbing to "Safari" in that scenario? Neither I nor Spaces
can read your mind. It probably wasn't designed expressly
for your needs... but -- so far -- I'm grateful for that.

How is it a crap shoot? It brings the most recent window of the selected app to the front, whatever Space it may exist in. That seems pretty logical, since cmd-tab offers access to all open applications of the user, not just the apps that are open in the current Space. In fact, cmd-tab's behavior has not been affected by Spaces at all; it works just like it did in Tiger.

Spaces certainly isn't as intuitive as Time Machine, but it does appear that Apple put some serious thought into how the graphical selection features of OS X behave when Spaces is activated. The more I use it, the more I appreciate the behaviors the developers selected. Of course, for the first few days, I didn't really understand the guiding principles of the behaviors, and became really frustrated thinking Spaces was prematurely upgraded from beta. I now realize that it wasn't Spaces that was beta; it was my ability to harness the power of Spaces that was beta.

Well on Fedora and Red Hat using Gnome (don't tase me for my basic Linux understanding), you can't command tab between windows of the same app on separate spaces, just the windows that belong to that app within one single space. Hal Itosis is right, if you want to go to a window on another Space, use Control+#1-4, then Command tab.

Also, a question. As in Fedora, why can't Apple Spaces allow clicking on the Dock icon to switch Space, ie: in the Dock icon for Spaces there are four little windows in there; Fedora shows you little representations of the application windows in each Space, you can even drag them around, and when you click on one little section, it takes you to that desktop. A click on Spaces and you just go to the éxpose-style F8 Space from above view. Quite limited when compared in that fashion.

I wouldn't say that the F8 style Spaces screen is limited! You can drag windows around, collect them in a single space, drag apps back and forth, and even rearrange entire screens.

True, but what I meant was limited was the Dock icon for Spaces. It doesn't reflect the windows on your Spaces and you can't move windows around in the icon, like you can with Gnome, I believe it is.

Gnome doesn't keep an icon of its multiple screens on the bar, but the program itself. It's an entirely different concept and uses a lot more screen space.

Just want to add another "me to".

Personally I hate it when I have terminal windows open on Space 1, but I'm currently working on another project on Space 2 and need a new Terminal window... if I cmd+tab and press cmd+n, I want a new terminal on Space 2... I don't want focus to change to Space 1, and then require me to drag that new window to where its supposed to be.

I would be happy with a "defaults write"... as I know simple users might get upset if they focus a window (probably though the dock) and don't get anything.