How to convince new boss to use Apple computer?
 

Ok, I have a new job as a product engineer in the semiconductor industry. Most likely, they already have a Windows computer set up for me when I arrive. Everyone I interviewed with had Windows with a picture of Bill Gates posted on their wall.

At my last job, a startup company, I used my Apple computer all day at work without any problem and it was welcomed. I'm concerned that this rather large company that I will be working for will frown down upon me if I bring my Apple to work and hook it up.

Any advice on how to approach my boss to let her know that I would rather use my Apple computer instead of the Windows machines that they already have waiting for me.

It really depends on their amount of exposure to Macs in general. If they have no exposure, I think I would recommend simply being as diplomatic as possible about the situation. Just ask for a "six month trial", if you will. Just ask for a chance, and then take that chance to show them that a Mac can thrive in that enviroment.

If they do have some experience with Macs, find out what the experience is. If it's negative, do some damage control, and if it's good, expand that feeling.

Anyway, so long as you can truly show them that the Mac can work in their environment, you shouldn't have a problem. Just don't push the Mac if it really won't work with their set up.

There are two issues.

First, what is the state of "control freak"-ness of the boss?, and second, what is "seamlessness" of the use of the Mac in a totally PC environment?

If the boss is an enlightened type that cares only about the job performance and not about the low level details of how you go about it, then you should have no problem with just stating your preference, provided the second issue is OK. If she is not, then I'm afraid no arguments will work.

On the seamlessness issue: in an efficiently run, profit-making organization, if your use of a Mac as opposed to a PC is functionally invisible to them, they shouldn't care. However, if they hear any requests for "extra" services that you require from their network or IT department (to include S/W purchases or upgrades just for you and no one else), or if you ever make any noise about "I can't work with that file format, please send it to me in xyz", or something similar, expect to be told to conform to their standard (unless, of course, you're such a superstar that they are willing to change the way they do things just to keep you on board - unlikely if you're essentially a new hire).

Actually, there is also potentially a third issue. Some companies that perform services for others under some contractual arrangements are required to certify various things about their IT systems, e.g., all use certified standard computers and S/W versions, have a specific kind of security standard on their network, perform periodic security checks on all computers, etc., etc. Generally, these will not allow you to use your personal computer, but will force you to use a company computer. Whether you can convince them to buy a Mac just for you in a PC environment then depends again on the first two issues identified above.

Pete

I bring it up during job interviews: "I will be bringing my own computer with me. I use my own computer. It's a Macintosh. Is there going to be a problem with that?"

why not spend £35 on a copy of Parallels and use the 'Transporter' function to suck up their copy of Windows with all of the apps on it..

If they ask... you ARE using Windows... :) just on a Mac..

You may want to wait and let your job approval increase. Once you are established as an asset, you can then come with a proposal that tactfully illustrates how you can be more productive using a Macintosh. In the mean time, you can always drop subtle hints regarding how incredible the Macintosh has become in the last few years. Perhaps even bring your in one Friday to let them play on.

Once they have been educated on how simple, yet powerful the Macintosh is, then they will not feel so put off by having one around. Another tact would be to suggest one Mac as a test bed for possible integration into the company. The goal here is for security from various viruses and other corruption.

I appreciate the advice and feedback, I interviewed with company about 3 weeks ago and neglected to bring up the Mac for fear that it would take away from the intent of the interview and that is to get the offer!

I will start a couple of weeks from now and I will probably watch very closely for anyone else that is using a Mac in my area. If I see one user, I could then approach my boss and ask her how she feels about it. In all honesty, I do have a lot of tools that I used at the startup company that I might be able to use in this company. For example, the statistical package that I have become accustomed to using.

Maybe, I can also approach it from the perspective that I generally like to work from home-yes I take my work home with me. I can tell her that I have a Mac that I have used for years, would it be a problem if I use it to do work from home? I would expect a yes reply. This may generally lead the discussion to using the Mac on the job which would then open up the discussion brought out by some of the arguments you posted earlier.

If I am able to use it at work, I would no doubt be looking at a MacBook Pro with both Windows and Mac so that I am not caught in an embarrassing position. For example file foo.exe would be ran on Windows and they would never hear me complain.

That all sounds like a reasonable approach, Ron. Make sure there are no Windows-only types within earshot to make an argument.

Yea, there're like a monkey wrench thrown in a turbine engine.:p

I will second the "Make sure". I've had many Windoze only types ruin my day in school when I was trying to get some projects done. (Some teachers only see the world through quad-colored windows. Ugh.)

one weapon I'd be careful of--some windoze freaks will claim that Windows runs in emulation on a Mac, and try to cast it in a negative light. If you can disarm that one, you might be clear.

Hey now, I was a windows only type for more years than I can remember...

Till I got a mac.

We aren't all closed minded idiots who think Macs are the tools of Satan. Honestly, I think Bill Gates IS Satan, and Windows pretty much sucks. All the same, I use both OS'es side by side every day.

So as a Windows users, what would be an argument that would persuade you to let your employee use a Mac?

The main positive feature for me in Macs is the possibility to use two or even more OSes side by side. I prefer running Windows simultaneously with Mac OS via Parallels, but Boot Camp is also a very good solution - because it is free...
Well, i think that possibility to run Windows natively and better than on PC should become a very weighty argument to persuade your boss.

As a boss, I would ask you how do you know Windows run better on a Mac than a Dell? I am not sure that this point has any merits to people that have probably been using Dell machines their whole life.

Well, I think I would try to find some info in the net about Parallels/Boot Camp performance whrn running Windows. Unfortunately now I don't have to search for it in the net, but I think there'll be many positive opinions about both virtualization and dual-boot.
It, of course, greatly depends upon the type of apps your boss expects you to run on your machine. If you'll be able to prove him that there are Mac equivalents of these apps, or that they work in windows-mode well, i think he'll take the bait.:)
The very first step is to make him sure that Macs have a better performance and a more intuitive core OS. I think this can be easy...

First point would be the much lower risk of viruses. With the two systems running side by side, it is quite easy to see how much time is wasted running virus scans, spyware scans, updating virus definitions, etc etx ad nauseum. Instead of spending five hours (and eating up system resources, thereby slowing me down) running those scans, I can just get my work done. I realize in a business environment, thats what an IT department is for, but I AM the IT department, as I run my own business, so there is no one to pawn the work off on.

Ease of use (once you master the learning curve, which takes what? A couple hours? A day or two at most?) is definitely a major selling point. Also, maybe this is just me, and the way I work, but my Mini is a 1.33 ghz, with 512 MB of RAM, and the PC to the right is a 3 ghz hyperthreaded P4, with 2 GB of RAM, and response time, on what is from a purely hardware standpoint a lesser system, is roughly equal, and in some instances the Mac actually comes out a bit ahead. I guess that could be summed up as a better designed OS, which makes more efficient use of available hardware. On second thought, that might not be the best thing to say to a Windows loyalist. It might also be a bad idea to mention that MS pretty much stole the interface from Apple to begin with.

Oh right I almost forgot, since I got this Mini roughly 2 weeks ago, except the time the cat accidentally turned off the power strip, it has not crashed once, and I haven't had to reboot for "new updates to take effect" or anything of that nature. You might also mention that these days, a Mac will integrate pretty much seamlessly with a Windows network. When I got mine, the most complex part of the whole setup was getting the server-side (ie Windows) configuration of Synergy. The client side setup was a matter of drag and drop to the applications folder, starting it, and typing in an IP address, then click start synergy. For most workplace applications, thats a non issue, as I sorta doubt you want to allow someone else to control your Mac with their keyboard.

I realize a lot of this isn't going to apply to you, Ron, but I do hope it gives you some insights into how to broach the subject. Also, I wish you the best of luck. Given a choice, I would choose a Mac over a PC, now that I have gotten the chance to use one on a daily basis for long enough to grok the differences.

Actually, I gamed with many Windows only types that scoffed at my Mac ownership status. When one of the members actually considered an iBook, all the others drowned me out with complaints that "Windows can do that!" He went ahead and bought the iBook despite it all. When the head PC guy needed to created a superfast slideshow for a funeral, he employed the guy with the iBook... he was amazed at how simple it was! He was not yet convinced. I was the first in my city to have one of them new fangled Intel iMacs. I brought it in to the gaming garage. When they saw the Windows logo, their eyes bugged out. When I played Call of Duty 2 with a great frame rate, the main PC guy threw up his hands and yelled, THAT'S IT! My NEXT computer is going to be a MAC!!

One side I have yet to see in this discussion is if he will be bringing his personal computer to work, will they allow work on non work systems?

An employer I had awhile back, did not mind Macs, they DID mind you bringing your computer (Mac, PC whatever) to work and putting company information on it. This company did not mind if you slicked your XP install, and install FreeBSD on your machine, as long as you could prove you could lock it down, and not be an idiot. (They would intrusion test your machine randomly, if it was doing something out of the ordinary, they would come to you and ask why it was doing 'x'.)

We were eventually allowed to bring home computers in, but we had to sign an agreement that stated the computer could be slicked by the employer if you were terminated, or you quit if they deemed it necessary. Company secrets and all. I was able to show the IT dept, that I kept all my work data on a sparseimage, and they could have it, or I could delete it. So my laptop was not slicked.
I thought I would throw that out there, the employer may not be against Macs, but they may be against employee owned devices being used on the workplace.

I finished my first week on the job and as I walked around talking and meeting people, I didn't see any Apple computers to speak of in anyone's cubicle. Not even an ipod for crying out loud. My setup is a Dell computer on one side with a Solaris Unix box on the other side.

I did pull out my computer and logged into it for a few personal affairs. No one said anything. There was no curiosity which I thought was rather odd.

I did notice that a couple of people have Dell laptops that they dock into the network system. This may be a buy in for my Mac if I get to the point where I am using a laptop and logging into work via VPN. I would just tell my boss that I would rather use my Apple computer instead of the standard Dell computer for logging in at work from home. This way I only need one computer instead of two.

The first thing that I did on the Windows machine was to install google desktop. In addition, I switch out I.E. for Firefox. This is an instant productivity tip for Windows users.

Don't ban me, I am still a Mac Addict!:)

I will keep you posted.

Why didn´t you discuss/negotiate this before taking the job?

I recently had a client ask me to set up a new employee with a very nice WIndows workstation. He said, ¨Let´s not give her a Mac, I don´t want to confuse her.¨ First day in, she mentions that she hasn´t used Windows in years, and do we have any Macs available. Had she said that previously, life would have been much easier for all of us.

When you want a job, it is bad form to start asking for perquisites. You first GET the job, then kindly ask for "this or that" if it is no trouble.

"I don't have anything against Windows, but I really feel more comfortable and productive on a Mac. Is it cool if I use my Mac for work?"

Simple, straightforward question. Don't try to be clever, just ask. Don't get into UI X vs UI Y, just ask. Don't say you don't like XYZ about Windows but ABC of Mac OS X is great, just ask. Don't be strategic and avoid Windows-type coworkers, etc, as it'll be really obvious you're trying to be "that guy", just ask.

Remember that they may have chosen that equipment and setup for a reason. Say . . . because that's what they want and have approved to be on their network. Don't be "that Mac zealot" and complain about it. (I'm not saying you will, just noting it.) Getting an exemption may require the approval of whoever oversees the network, manages the internal support, etc. You might not get that approval, so don't turn it into a big event. Just ask. :)

I think schneb said it best and it states what I said earlier. Getting the job is the first priority!!! Without that nothing else matters. Now that I have the job, I must learn it. So it may take a while for me to introduce the Mac, but it's a good idea for me to check with the network people and casually see what they think about this. If they approve, then maybe trying to convince the boss to use a Mac is a mute point.

The disconnect is incredible
 

Let me preface this by stating that I was a Mac user all through school, and all through school Macs let me down. The freezing - the unhappy Mac face, and then I shifted to a Windows machine. At first I thought it sucked bad, but then little things caught my attention like when I ran Photoshop, Illustrator and ten other programs together, AND the OS didn't crash??? I was in heaven!

At the time, I also noticed how the gamma correction in Photoshop had been altered in the PC version, so as to screw over Windows users - this had been done by Mac heads at Adobe. I never forgot that, and it cost me a few clients. As years passed, I listened to people tell me about their Macs, and was nodding my head as inevitably in mid-demonstration, their machine would crash ... "Hmmm ... that's funny?"

That said, I find it very Mac like that nobody here has stated even one valid comparison-based reason why the Mac is "better." I actually "like" OSX and need to convince my boss "why it's better." At a big company, nobody cares about viruses - they're nuked before anyone's hit. Better hardware, possibly, but dollar to dollar, the Mac is smoked by Windows.

Essentially, you can somewhat argue that the hardware selections are better on the Mac to begin with and the easy OS means little learning curve, but then again, shouldn't you know your OS already? However, arguing that something like Photoshop works better on the Mac isn't true, as Photoshop is now written first for Windows machines. The Mac version uses software translation called Rosetta, which actually means, it runs slower on the Mac. This is true of a lot of Mac software. The market comprises only 2% and that's not large enough to make it a primary focus in software development.

If you work at a creative firm with people that need the Mac style, then yeah, because dollar-wise, it will help convince clients that you've got a really "creative" (regardless of what they can actually do with the things). BUT if you work at ANYCORP, how's the custom OS gonna help and not hurt their bottom line? Because you know, that's all they really care about.

It's like a business lunch. Is it more convincing to take a client to a five-star or Joe's Deli? Answer, if the client has money to spend, it's the five star every time.

So far, no one's posted any "convincing" reasons? The stuff stated here might convince a ten person company, but short of that, you'll definitely need some better reasons.

Brain, first, welcome to the forum and your first post.

Second, you are living at least two years behind the curve. Photoshop CS3 is Universal Binary and screams on the Macintosh--even with all its bloat. I have nothing in my arsenal of applications (and I have plenty for video, audio and still) that is remotely in need of Rosetta. Windows XP is stable, yes. But our entire global software firm lost an entire day of productivity due to the "I LOVE YOU" virus. I was cross platform, so my Macintosh hummed along. I have not had a single kernel panic since Panther. Now I am on Leopard, yes, having a few issues, but not as much as the Vista folk.

Microsoft is not the innovator in our little computer-based world, it is, and always has been Apple. Today it is becoming more obvious because Apple is innovating faster than Microsoft can copy. The Macintosh is better because it has a rock solid foundation in UNIX. Though it severely lacks backward compatibility, it also lacks software bloat. Which in software terms, is obesity that can get out of control. OSX is lean and mean, as well as tailored for its hardware. Because the hardware and the software are made within the same company, high end tasks can be planned and executed more efficiently. The key was the UNIX foundation. The next big step was INTEL. Now its a matter of bringing down the space, heat, noise, and power usage a you are going to be looking at some killer units in the near future.

And yet none of this matters in a corporate setting where you're trying to convince your boss or IT department to let you use the computer of your choice. Why? 'Cause it's not an Internet forum or Apple Store sales floor.

Perceived platform superiority doesn't matter when you're trying to use whatever computer you want at your job. All that really matters is communicating what you're most comfortable with, and demonstrating the benefits provided by such comfort.

What, you think I'm making it all up from Apple brochures? For our company of 2,000 people to be shut down for a day because of one virus was a pretty big deal. I am not some Macintosh fan boy who works on an Apple Store sales floor. I use both platforms daily in my job, and both do well for various purposes. Just that one needs an entire IT department to keep happy, when the other just needs a guy who knows Macs and how to get them working happily on the network.

Please put your best convincing argument forward, I would love to hear them.

As for some of the others, let stay on the topic of convincing your boss to let you use a Mac in the workplace. I for one would really love to have an excuse to buy another Mac that runs both windows and OSX and what a better place to do this then at work.

I don't know what is easier: to convince someone that Macs are better than PCs or vice versa... I think if the boss was a Mac fan, it would be difficult to make him use Windows - he would say: I have Parallels/Boot Camp it suits me.
The fact is that the change of PC to Mac will not lead to positive/negative changes in the functioning of the office. So it is the matter of taste first

Well, I ask the network about VPN capability today. They told me that in order to get it I would have to use a company computer where they put a certification on the machine to provide you access. In fact to even log on the wireless network, you need to have a computer issued by them. Seems like a daunting task when everything is automatically issued to you by the network administrators. Maybe I should tell ask them to purchase me a laptop for use as a VPN but can it be a Mac Book Pro that runs Windows and Macs?
Ok, you can stop laughing now.:)

However, when I brought this up with a colleague, he was quick to suggest a work around since to him this doesn't make since if you already have your own laptop.

Well, this could be arguing semantics but if they offer you the job you can try to negotiate anything. Its not like they are going to not offer you the job if you ask for more money.

When I got hired at my current job they were offering macbooks to all the TIS employees, and I simply stated I want a Macbook Pro. I got a Macbook pro. All you have to do sometimes is ask.

I'm coming from the viewpoint of one looking to get a job. If you have ever seen the short animated film "Get a Job", the dog applicant came in and started making demands in order to be "more aggressive". He was thrown out on his can of course. Yes, if you are offered a job, then you can respectfully negotiate such items and hardware. Never hurts to ask--but sometimes it does upon first impression.

That is why you never negotiate until after the job is offered. I had been interviewing for a new job for several months before I got my current job. I was stuck between entry level and a higher pay scale and my current job at the time would not promote me and kept adding on responsibilities to my job with out compensation. It got bad enough where I didn't want to work there any more.

My first good promising interview was with a medical research firm what was going to, for the first time, deploy a 50/50 mac/pc ratio in their network. They were 100% windows based before that. They told me up front out of all the Applicants that applied they were only interviewing two people, and I was one of them. Apparently, there were only two of us were qualified enough for the job. The interview went great, and the IT manager had some second thoughts about my windows experience because I had been supporting macs for a long time, and he didn't like my answers about AD. I told him that almost all of my current experience was with Novell, and that I hadn't touched AD in a while, but it is all the same concept and in a few short weeks I could be back up to speed. I was honest, and I have windows experience. I used to help maintain over 60 windows 2003 servers, we just used eDirectory instead of AD. I mean MS stole it from Novell to begin with, but thats a whole other story. He was very impressed with my Macintosh knowledge, so that was the great part of the interview, and that I had self maintainer experience for many years.

So, it comes down to one last thing. Salary. The job was posted in a very obscure manner. It was posted just as Mac admin, with no listing of responsibilities, pay, location, or anything. They were keeping it a secret until they deployed them. So, they asked me what this job was worth in a dollar sense. I told them the range of salary I would expect at this job. They called me about a week later and told me that I didn't get the job. I am certain either the other applicant just had more experience than me, or he was older, or I got low balled on salary.

it all worked out for the best because I ended up getting a new job like 2 months later which actually paid more than they would have paid me, and I am getting the best possible experience now. Managing 7500 or so mac clients, 20 xserves, open directory master, and other various back end technologies.

So, in that case I was unable to negotiate after they offered the job because they wanted to know what I expected first, and they asked before anything happened.

However, if they want to hire you, they will, and if they want you bad enough they will negotiate because good help is just too hard to find sometimes. So, your point is well taken, and very good advice for someone starting out. I think though that someone given the right experience should negotiate, because there are always higher pay scales.

For that scenario, yes, I would probably respond the same. I think it is good that you did not get that first job. It sounds pretty unprofessional. On an aside, sometimes they ask you what you want as a salary just to see what you think your talents are worth. If they want you, they negotiate anyway. I'm glad it worked out for the best for you tlarkin.

For me, I got the job first, learned as much as I could about Windows and its network. Then asked for a Mac to use next to the PC. Since I created their CD interfaces, I needed the Mac to do cross-platform titles.

Word of advice. Never give them a salary range until they make you an offer. You should say something like, "I would love to give you a salary range but since I am not sure about all of my responsibilities until I get in and start working, it would be difficult for me to give you a salary range at this time; or you ready to make me an offer?"

By giving them a salary range, you are showing your hand and can unknowingly eliminating yourself. If you must give them a salary range, make it wide so that a truck can drive through it.

So I have a unix solaris box on my left and a windows box on my right. I was given a switch box so that I can view the unix account on one display. Can the macbook pro run both the PC and Solaris unix? If so, I will ask for a mac book and say that it can incorporate both Solaris unix and PC and thus help to save you $$$ in the long run.

Ron

Yeah that job interview was kind of weird. You see it was a medical research firm, so the user base were all very smart scientists. They have been asking for macs for years, but until recently, macs had no compatibility with the existing infrastructure. The IT manager was a very cool guy and had been toying around with Macs. He had been researching about how it was possible to integrate them into the network. However, scientists, are a special kind of user. How do you simply tell a user, who is most likely a genius, they can't do something, or that it doesn't work that way?

So, they were keeping it very low key because they didn't want to be hammered with requests until they were ready to deploy, basically it was a secret. Since, not all the details had been thought of or looked into because they didn't have a mac admin on hand, they were looking for someone to fill the position. I gave them my range for the duties they described to me.

I think they really wanted to hire me but the other person was more experienced, or equal but they low balled me. They were going to hire additional help like 2 months later and told me to reapply because they wanted me to work there. I didn't want to go into another mid level position, so I went job hunting some more, and found my current job. Which is what I was looking for.

The range I gave them had 10k/year difference on the low and high end of the spectrum, I gave them a very broad range.

I personally think that specifying a salary before you are hired is good, or bad, depending on the market. If there are a lot of positions availabe, and you are competent in your field, you should specify a price. It would be foolish not to, because you might end up with a low salary when you could have done better.

But, on the flip side, if there is a small job market or if you aren't really all that great at what you do, you should probably not specify and just take what you can get.