external hard drive for leopard
 

I want to buy an external hard drive to use with time machine, but I need some help deciding which model. I really like the WD My Book drives (specifically the My Book Pro and My Book Studio Edition). The Pro has USB, FW 400/800. The Studio edition adds eSATA. I have an iMac, so I have no current need for eSATA, but is it worth the extra $20 to be a bit more future proof? And what size drive should I be looking at? My internal hd is 250GB, but i do a little media work (have used over half of my internal). I know apple recommends using a hd only for time machine, but I could partition it into two volumes and use part for extra storage. Any help would be appreciated, as I want to order the drive ASAP in time for my upgrade. Thanks in advance!

-adam

I personally would recommend 500GB just for the Time Machine backup drive. The drive can be used over the network for Time Machine if you choose.

Fry's has an exceptional deal on a Maxtor 750GB for the next couple of days. It's worth a look.

I would recommend the following features:

1. FireWire 800 (IEEE 1394b) port
2. Oxford chipset
3. Largest capacity you can afford / are willing to pay for

You can purchase ready made external drives, or purchase an enclosure and a HDD, and assemble them yourself, which is a relatively simple process. Sometimes when a hard drive is purchased separately, it has a superior warranty compared to a hard drive that comes pre-installed in an enclosure. When I was shopping for an external drive, the pre-assembled solutions generally had one year warranties, while the drives purchased individually had three year warranties. I'm not sure why this is, or if the installed drives are marked in such a way as to identify them a model with only a one year warranty.

When I purchased my drive, I made the mistake of not buying an enclosure with an Oxford chipset. Consequently, I cannot boot from my external drive, in spite of the fact that it is connected via FireWire.

Connecting via FireWire 800, assuming your iMac has a FireWire 800 port (You didn't specify which iMac you have.), will allow you to connect to the external drive at or near the (single) drive's maximum (real world) transfer speeds. Also, quality enclosures with quality FireWire chipsets are bootable.

If you assemble your own external drive, you will have to choose between (P)ATA and SATA drives. In theory, while PATA 133 is slower than SATA, both exceed the transfer speeds of single drives currently available. If you don't anticipate ever needing to install your external drive internally in your iMac (or if your iMac has a PATA internal hard drive), and your desired capacity and speed is available with a PATA bus, there is no reason to spend the extra money on SATA.

You might find this site interesting. (Take the individual results with a grain of salt; at least one drive is listed with a faster average write speed than maximum write speed, which is an impossibility.) Notice that write speeds tend to increase as drive capacity increases, and that, in terms of speed, eSATA > FireWire 800 (1394b) > FireWire 400 (1394a) > USB 2.0, generally speaking.

Regarding the Western Digital My Book, I believe it does have an Oxford chipset. I wouldn't worry too much about getting eSATA, since FW 800 seems to do a reasonably good job of maintaining the transfer rate of single drives. For example the WD My Book Pro 500 GB connected via FW 800 had min/ave/max read times of 37.9/57.6/72.3 MB/s, while the WD Caviar SATA 500 GB internal HDD showed read times of 38.0/58.0/72.0. Write times were 37.8/53.6/58.2 MB/s externally, compared to 26.0/58.0/72.0 MB/s internally. Access times were 13.4 ms externally, compared to 13.0 ms internally. (Bear in mind, that larger drives or other brands may or may not be slowed by the bandwidth bandwidth limitations of FireWire 800.)

Here is a comparison of some 500 GB external drives, including WD My Book series connected via FW 800 and eSATA. The results differ from the test results I quoted above, showing a small but significant difference between the 1394b and eSATA connections. Pages 4, 6, 10 and 12 refer specifically to the My Books. Needless to say, your mileage may vary.

I forgot to mention...I have the older Core 2 Duo 20" iMac (Late 2006), so no FW 800. It seems like Apple is pushing FW 800, and in 5 years when I upgrade my Mac, it will very likely have FW 800. So that's why I'm looking at triple-interface drives to begin with.

It seems like you say that (and various questions):

1) no need for eSATA
2) Bigger is better - do you think i should partition it or use all for time machine?
3) should i be looking at other manufacturers or a build it myself option.

Thanks for your prompt response.

I don't see any problem with quality USB 2.0 drives. I wouldn't worry too much about future compatibility. Everything I purchased 5 years ago are currently considered slow and small.

Apple already pushed FW800 in the G5's and apparently, at least for now, gave up. There just isn't a lot of FW800 peripherals hitting the market.

As to building your own… Currently it seems more inexpensive to find a good deal on external drives than internal and kit options.

My Lacie 160GB external just died on me today after only a year. I suggest not to get a Lacie. I may just have bad luck, though

Have you checked with Lacie? Most of their drives have at least a 2 year warranty.

In regards to the external drives for Leopard, I own two Lacie externals.

The "Mini" (2xFW400 only)
The d2 (2xFW800/1xFW400/2.0)
plus one of those FW Soundcards (2xFW400)

If i purchase another d2 (eSATA/2xFW800/1xFW400/2.0) it would make it impossible to tether all together via the FW400.

Therefore my question is, may I do this?

d2 --FW800--> d2 --FW400--> SndCrd --FW400--> "Mini" --FW400--> 'puter

or in other words...is mixing of FW speeds possible through tethering?

Yes. It's possible and shouldn't cause any problems.

I've also found the My book premium 500GB (without FW800) for $150. 1 year warrany. The MY Book pro has a 3-year warranty, and the Studio Edition has a 5-year warranty. the LAcie drive that is most similar also have 1-year warranty.

It should work. In theory it will not cause any problems. However, sometimes practice and theory do not completely meet up with each other. You can read more information here, or else just know that your chance of problems will be reduced somewhat if you purchase a FireWire hub rather than daisy-chaining all of the FireWire peripherals.

Trevor

In 5 years, FW 800 will be a thing of the past and only the old computers will support it. Check out USB 3. The continued emphasis that the USB consortium places on backwards compatibility will likely ensure that USB 3 will continue to edge out other peripheral connectivity solutions like eSATA and Firewire. Also, the increasing trend towards hard drive and flash based camcorders is diminishing the demand for Firewire in consumer devices.

So I should buy the my book essential edition (USB/FW 400) and not worry about eSATA or FW 800 because my computer doesn't support it, and I will most likely need a new ext. hd by the time i need a new computer?

Are you sure that your iMac doesn't support FireWire 800? Exactly which iMac do you have?

If you have FW800 now, I'd recommend that you get a drive that supports FW800. At this point in time, drives are faster than the FireWire 400 bus, so you're limiting your drive speed when connected to FW400. FW800 should give you the full drive speed, minus a small hit because of the ATA (or rarely, SATA) to FireWire bridge.

Trevor

I have a late 2006 20" iMac, so only FW400.

What size drive should i be looking at? (see earlier posts for more details)

As big as you can afford. The more space you have on the drive, the more backups that you can fit on it. It's really only limited by your budget.

Trevor

There's a good argument to be made that warranty durations are not really worth considering when buying a hard drive (or most anything, for that matter).

Except in the most exceptional cases, if the electronics work fine for the first couple of months (beyond the "infant mortality" period) they are virtually certain to outlast the lifetime of the best of the mechanical components.

As far as mechanical components are concerned, it's really just an actuarial game. You are not necessarily getting a better quality product just because it has a longer warranty.

Although few, if any, will actually admit it, many manufacturers will warranty something for a short period on the basis that the likelihood of failure within the short warranty period is extremely small, and therefore they can afford to sell it for a low price (actual costs + desired profit + miniscule reserve to cover actuarily calculated replacement). They will also take the same identical item, warranty it for a longer period, calculate the likelihood of wearout within that longer period, and increase the price to cover the actuarily expected repair/replacement costs.

Note that, just like in Vegas, the odds will favor the house, so that you are absolutely certain (at least statistically) to pay more for the longer warranty than it will cost the manufacturer to honor it.

It is important to remember that the manufacturere is not giving you a warranty that the unit is going to last for whatever the warranty period is. He is, in essence, saying that, at that particular price point, the odds are in his favor that he will still make a profit because, on an actuarial basis, the increased price will more than cover his costs of repair/replacement for the warranty period.

The bottom line according to this point of view, is that so long as the warranty duration covers the "infant mortality" period of the electronic components (a couple of months oughta do it), the length of the warranty is not a particularly significant discriminator when deciding to buy a hard drive.

My 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

Pete

I have been backing up selected data (the stuff that is most crucial) from my MacBook to my G3 iBook through my wireless network.

I plan to get Leopard (not Friday but within about two weeks after that) and am wondering:

Can I use Time Machine and still back up to the iBook?

Can I do so without using a firewire or usb cable, but just using the network?

If I use a firewire cable must the iBook be in Firewire Target mode?

Can I still use the iBook as a computer if it is the back up drive? (It's only used as a computer nowadays if I have a visiting child who doesn't bring his/her own laptop.)

Not having used Time Machine yet, I don't know. If you could, you would have to make sure that the iBook's hard drive was an active network share on your MacBook. You probably can do it this way.

Questions like these are going to be easier to answer when people have Leopard, or those folks who currently have Leopard are released from their NDA and can talk about their experience. Right now, you have just as much ability to check out Apple's webpages describing Leopard as anyone else--maybe searching that will help you figure out the answer.

Same answer as above.

FireWire Target Disk Mode is a specialized case. It makes the iBook behave like it's an external hard drive, so you can definitely use that if you wish. The question is whether you can use a network share.

Yes, if you are using it as a network share. No, if you just leave it permanently in FireWire Target Disk Mode.

Trevor

Time Machine on a Lan external Drive
 

Hello,
anyone knows if just USB or FW external HDD are suitable for TM or even the lan ones?
The logic would say so, but I'd like to be sure...
Thanks

To quote Trevor's excellent answer:

Questions like these are going to be easier to answer when people have Leopard, or those folks who currently have Leopard are released from their NDA and can talk about their experience. Right now, you have just as much ability to check out Apple's webpages describing Leopard as anyone else--maybe searching that will help you figure out the answer.

In two more days, there will be a lot more information about Leopard available. I suspect that there might even be a forum member or three that have been running Leopard for a while now, but are legally obligated to refrain from discussing it.

Network drives will work fine with TimeMachine. Any drive of sufficient size, other than the boot drive can be selected in the Preferences panel.

Hmm
 

I bought the Maxtor 750 HD that Frys had on sale and now I am wondering if it is overkill.
The box says it is useful if you need "massive storage capacity for digital photos, music graphic and videos.

I am just an average user and it ran me $200 when I bought the warranty for 3 yrs.

Any suggestions?
Brenda

No, I think 750 GB is a wise choice. Backup space on hard drives will fill up faster than you expect. (Or at least that's true with traditional backups. I've no experience with Time Machine yet.)

Trevor

As I've been telling my clients for years... Hard drive space is like closet space. No mater how much you have, it will fill up! :)

BTW: $200 for a 750GB! That's a darn good price!

I was looking for a hd in the uk, 320gb firewire 400? anyone know where to find one (NOT LACIE)

Why not Lacie? I thought that they were a decent brand (just an impression from talking with others - I've never owned a Lacie product).

I'm not over keen on Lacie anymore, I had one at home for a cuople of years, and it always been buggy, I can not even see part of it. I had one at work and it bricked( sorry iPhone term) twice just after the warranty run out , the last time it was unrecoverable. Lost a lot of data as well as gain a new paperweight.

The only problem is for Time Machine, I want to get a ethernet capable drive
But have only found the LaCie Ethernet Big Disk.

I want ethernet as I suspect many of the bad disk problems a because of unclean firewire disconnects (for what ever reasons).

Hi folks,

I think AdamB529's thread has turned into a very valuable one regarding what are the best external HD's.

In theory an external HD is as important as ANY computer that supports it as the loss of data can prove catastrophic for freelancers like myself where reliable data (illustrations and support files in my case) storage and access is fundamental to everyday working practice. I currently use one internal HD for Apps and OSX and a second internal HD on my G5 PPC Quad 2.7 for artwork files, backed up to an external 200 GB Lacie drive. Its now some three years old and has been always been fine (touch wood). I'll probably need a new drive very soon as this one is getting full despite continual editing of data.

Within the experience of people contributing to the forum - what are the best / most reliable Mac friendly external HD's available that you have worked with and what are the worst...?....! No swearing now:D

Cheers,

YZ

I would recommend any external FireWire drive that used an Oxford bridge chipset, no matter whose name was glued to the outside*. I would also get a drive with the fastest FireWire interface that my computer supported, so if my computer has FireWire 800, I'd be sure to get a FW800 drive. If my computer only supports FireWire 400, then a FW400 drive is adequate.

Trevor

* Actually, that's with the caveat that I only want external drives that use active cooling, in other words the drives that have a fan so that the hard drive doesn't cook. And I strongly prefer drives with an on/off switch, and with an external power supply, not relying on bus-power.

Is it worth spending $80 more for 250GB in additional hd space (500GB for 150, 750GB for 230)

That's about the same price per gigabyte. The 750 GB drive is 2/3 of a cent higher per gig. When it comes to RAM and hard drive space, the general rule is that more is better.

for use with time machine???? how much space do i really need?

That depends on how much total space is being backed up. I'd say at the very least, twice the total space used of all drives/partitions being used.

i've narrowed my choices down to a Western digital My Book Premium edition (USB/FW400) and the Maxtor One-Touch III (USB/Fw400/FW800). Both drives are about $235. Anyone have any experience with either and could recommend one or the other?

I would stay away from the Maxtor One-Touch myself. First, I've never had particularly good luck with Maxtor drives, but even ignoring that, there have been many reports on this forum saying that if you try to replace the drive internal to a Maxtor case, the size of the new drive will be limited to 128/137 GB (depending on how you count your Gigabytes.) Search the forums here for further details.

Does your computer support FireWire 800? If it does, you might want to look further for a trustworthy external drive that supports it as well.

Trevor

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306833

"Mac OS X 10.5: Time Machine doesn't back up to AirPort Disks

Time Machine in Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard can be used to back up to many kinds of Mac OS Extended-formatted drives, but it does not support AirPort Extreme's AirPort Disk feature.

Time Machine can back up to another Mac running Leopard with Personal File Sharing, or to a Leopard Server volume, or an Xsan storage device.

Learn more about Time Machine here."

copyright 2007 Apple Inc.

That's what I've also heard from users of Apple Discussions.

Nope, only FW 400 and USB, so the WD Premium Edition is perfect for me. (no, i didn't rhyme than intentionally, but hey, it sounds cool)

just wanted to say that I went ahead and ordered the My Book Premium Edition 500GB. i decided that I really didn't need FW800 nor 750GB of storage. Thanks everybody for their help. Now I'm waiting for my copy of Leopard to arrive from Amazon.

-Adam