Leopard..... go on...be honest!
 

Okay... I am a huge Apple fan... don't get me wrong...

BUT...

Do you think a few of the new features in Leopard are a bit lame?....

Spaces... Stacks.. CoverFlow Finder...? Are they just a bit 'gimmicky' and one of those things you will never use like the F10 Expose Window?...

I know that all of the features haven't been made public yet... but I was really hoping for some really useful features like built in integration to Exchange in iCal, Mail and AddressBook....
I am really not looking forward to that slanty reflecting dock either.... I want my Mac to work seamlessly for me... not reflect! :D

Well, I'm probably one of the biggest Apple fans there is.

BUT, and let me stress that I will always love and respect their products, i am sick and tired of always being one or two steps behind.

I am not poor, but I am not rich either. I need my Mac, because I love developing software and I am a graphic designer.

Here's what I hate:
Years ago, when I finally got a iBook w/Jaguar, a week later, Panther came out. When I got Panther, a month later, Tiger came out. Now there's gonna be Leopard, and chances are, I will never get it. The first reason is because I am sure that I will have to upgrade my machine (did I mention that I have 4 mouths to feed?). Second, even if I could upgrade my machine, should I wait for the new OS. I mean really, when will they take a break.

OK, so with Jaguar, I understand why. It was new and Panther was much, much better. But let me ask a question honestly, Couldn't you have survived with Tiger for a little while longer? Isn't it just about the best OS ever? Nothing wrong with it.

So, how long do you think I will have to go not being able to develop software, because I just don't have the latest OS? Not F@$%ing fare.

Tiger is so complex, but with such an easy-to-understand front end. How many developers (other than the guys at Apple) can say that they have mastered writing apps for this OS? Not many, that's for sure.

Geez, Apple, give us a chance to catch up with you.

Interesting....I use the expose features all the time.

Im still on 10.3.9 so I think this will be a worthy upgrade for me.

I think you're talking about F9 expose and not F10 expose. Most people only use the "all windows" expose and not the "application windows" expose.

Are you sure about that? I'm very skeptical about the speculation that there is still a killer app or two hidden in Leopard that hasn't been announced yet.

I hide my dock since I use Quicksilver for all my launching needs, so I don't think the reflection will bother me one way or another :)

I have to say that I am upgrading to Leopard mostly for Time Machine. I have high expectations that Time Machine will be a much better and more tightly integrated solution than any of the incremental backup solutions that I have tried to date. I hope that I am not disappointed.

As far as the other "features" go, most of them are cosmetic. The more unified user interface will be nice, but it is hardly crucial. Finder cover flow seems about as useful as bumptop - which is to say not at all. The only real practical use would be for browsing photos and videos in the finder. But iLife '08 takes care of all of that. Want to browse your photos - use iPhoto. Want to browse your videos - use iMovie. Want to browse your TV shows and music videos - use iTunes. In fact, iTunes and iPhoto "lock" your media away in their own directory structures, so it is highly unlikely your going to be browsing that media in the Finder anyways! Finder cover flow will likely just be a productivity killer - unless perhaps, they integrate the media browser into the Finder cover flow so that the vaults of iPhoto, iMovie, and iTunes are exposed in one coherent interface. In that case, it might be useful. But not for browsing for files!

Almost everything else is just a tweak or borrowing from another platform. I don't see a lot of real innovation with this one. I guess we'll have to wait and see!

Hopefully there is an option to take away the transperancy of windows.

That's only a "fact" if you didn't use the preference in the current versions of both apps that lets the apps track your media where you left them, without moving them.

As far as Leopard features, Leopard only seems gimmicky if you only pay attention to Apple's marketing propaganda, which concentrates on the shiny things (because the eye candy sells Macs...I've seen it happen at the Apple Store with my friends, while I'm nearby rolling my eyes). Apple has a list of 300+ features, and there are enough useful, non-gimmicky items in there that I will upgrade. But not right away. Probably will wait until the bug fix update.

I think it really all depends on what you are looking for. I am excited about the new changes in Automator, which has not seen boo for years. I am also pretty excited about Time Machine, since I have not found a backup utility that work in the background the way I like. I am thinking also that much of these gimmicky things you mention are surface niceties that hide some hidden improvements to speed and multiprocessor usage. It would not be good marketing to hype these.

But think about the positives like PDF control in Preview, or the ways Spaces can help you organize open windows (looking forward to that).

However, I agree that much of it is fluff, like clever backgrounds for iChat--yawn, personalized email stationary--yawn, more desktop backgrounds--ZZzzzzzZZzzz

So really, it all depends. Hold on to your money and write Apple Feedback if you feel they are missing the mark.

Good point. Sometimes I think that I'm a little too comfortable to let the applications organize my files. Good thing I back-up regularly :)

The big one for me is Unix certification. Granted, not many OS X users know or care about this, but my day is spent working exclusively with Unix-based systems and software. It's actually Linux, but I don't want to get into the "Linux isn't really Unix" debate.

Now I don't have to worry about waiting for some dedicated individual to port existing Unix software to the Mac. It will just work (via X11 at least).


This is the other killer feature for me. I currently use Super-Duper, but it's too hands on. I mean, first you have to open the app, then you have to click the update button, then you have to wait. OK, I'm being facetious now, but you get the idea :p.


As soon as I heard about Leopard, I decided to stay with Panther and skip Tiger altogether. And I first heard about Leopard nearly two years ago, I think!

I have pre-ordered 3 copies :D

We bought 3 Macs since Oct 1st, so we are due upgrades for the cost of postage :)


A lot of what you lot say s correct though.... The Unix cert is cool.... and will drag in a few more Mac users, and time Machine is a bit of a plus...

You poor guy! You missed out on two very good years. I think Tiger was a big improvement on Panther. On my old iBook G3 (since replaced with a MacBook), Tiger ran much faster than Panther. Boot time alone was 30% faster!

You seem not to understand what the issues are with regard to getting software that was developed for one platform to run on another platform.
As far as I can see, there will be relatively little change in the ease or difficulty of porting Linux software to work on OS X between Tiger & Leopard. The main problems stem from assumptions made by the software developers. Not all Unix platforms are alike at the lower levels - and much software makes assumptions about these lower-levels of the system.

So I think you will still need to wait for that "dedicated individual" to do the work to port existing software from Linux or other versions of Unix to make it work on OS X.

well Apple actually lists 'search by file name' as a new feature for spotlight in OS X 10.5.....:rolleyes:

Here are the features I am waiting about

Spaces
Mobile Home directories (server side)
pod cast server
netboot and imaging

So really, a lot of what I am wanting to use is server side technology....

A few things I'm looking forward to:
 

Spaces
Grammar check
Auto-save in TextEdit
Guest login accounts
Hot corner for sleep display
Location aware printing
Improved PDF manipulation
Application based firewall settings
Improved Spotlight capabilities (particularly the calculations via Spotlight)
Improved Dictionary functionality
Stacks
Improved Automator functionality

I'm confident there are other new features I'll find useful on a regular basis, also.

I thought part of the deal with getting Unix certification was that things like system files had to be in specific locations, specific system commands had be available and adhere to particular standards. This page lists the requirements.

Although I said above that I didn't want to get into the "Linux isn't really Unix" debate, I realise that none of the Linux flavours are Unix03-certified (the certified systems are listed here). Therefore, as you suggest, software written for one of the Linux versions will still require effort to port.

Just to be clear, I don't expect Unix programs to have shiny Aqua interfaces, since that requries OS X specific code, but they will be written for a generic window manager interface, and the X11 window manager should therefore work as the GUI. It won't necessarily be pretty, but it'll work.

I'll probably faint with the step up to Leopard then! :D To be honest, I've only noticed a problem since about the beginning of this year. The sheer number of applications which require Tiger is staggering (from Apple and third-party developers).

I'm also laughing a bit at these sparkly bling things. That coverflow stuff...

My latest iTunes has that, and I just don't see how giving up that much screen space to scrolling album artwork makes it easier for me to do what I'd like.

I got half way through the apple tour of leopard last night, and it seems that coverflow is prominently hyped.

I'm greatly anticipating reading here in the forums what everyone thinks of the first leopard release as they begin to use it. I was late to Tiger with 10.4.2, and I think it was probably good that I did, letting some of the bugs get worked out. I'm not a power user.

Oh... Photek, after a year of Tiger, I used F10 last week! (I use F9 lots, though) :)

Yeah, but I think that is already true of Tiger - i.e. I don't think there had to be many big changes needed for Leopard in this regard. I think OS X has been POSIX compliant for some time now.

Seriously Quicksilver should come with 10.5 as standered

I'll let you know Saturday morning. ;)

I certainly hope not.

If you want to use Quicksilver, by all means, use it, but it doesn't belong in the OS. It's neither Mac-like nor intuitive. Plus, I can accomplish the majority of my tasks faster with the tools already available in Tiger than with Quicksilver.

Quicksilver has awesome features for the power user (a bit techy for the consumer Mac user), but I hope Quicksilver is coded better than it was when I used it a couple years ago.

It was running very slowly, so I asked them about it. Turns out my hard drive happened to have a lot more files than Quicksilver could handle. But LaunchBar and Spotlight could handle the number of files on my hard drive without slowing down! So Quicksilver said hello to my Trash Can. Maybe it's different now, but at the time, Quicksilver was Not Ready for Bundling with OS X.

Quicksilver is lightning fast on my MacBook. In my experience, it is ready for prime time. However, even though I am an avid user and supporter, I don't advocate it being bundled with the OS. For one, I agree that it can be a little counter-intuitive for the average user. More importantly though, with a few key modifications and some Apple GUI magic, Spotlight could usurp Quicksilver's primary functionality.

I just heard that there is no Classic environment whatsoever in Leopard.

Well, that's still a dealbreaker. I'll stick with Tiger at least until some mission-critical app requires Leopard as minimum OS.

Really? I ditched classic support back in 10.2 and haven't used it since.

I ditched classic as soon as Indesign was available for X... probably late 2001... haven't looked back since...

Why would you need a legacy OS anyway?!

Yup. I can't think of one feature that I would use on a daily basis.

Spaces, nope as I only ever have a few apps open at once
Time Machine, nope as I don't do much to my machine and I back up regularly

After that there is nothing that looks useful to me.

Odd really as each upgrade from 10.0 to 10.4 has been well worth it. But I just don't see the same in 10.5.

I still use SoundEdit 16 to record digital audio. I tried Audacity but it does weird and wonky things to my system sound (gives my computer amnesia and it forgets it's capable of creating sound in any application). Audacity has been banished. I like SoundEdit 16 better anyhow.

I still use Photoshop 3 for everyday graphic editing. Photoshop CS is like using a bazooka to shoot a fly, it annoys the starch out of me by creating a new freaking layer every time I ⌘-V something,

I still use MIDIGraphy to compose pieces or to quickly slap something auditory together (e.g., "Does anybody recognize this tune?"). No other MIDI editor has MIDIGraphy's interface. I hate bar staves.

I still support legacy FileMaker stuff from the dawn of time. FileMaker Pro 5, 4, 3, 2.1, 1.0 anybody?


Sure, I could get by without Classic. I could use SheepShaver for most of this and muddle along with some unfound untried and untested app for the others (I'm sure I'd eventually find something). But for what tradeoff?

a) Spaces. BFD. I'd use it if it would map to actual external monitors, i.e,. when my PowerBook has the flat-screen TFT on the right and and the old Sony CRT on the left as externals, it uses them; when they ain't there, Spaces mimics them, displaying content where I had left it when last I had the 3-screen setup going. But it doesn't do that, does it?

b) Time machine. I've got Retrospect. I don't need or want a backup app that saves copies going back through time. That takes oceans of HD space. I just need one, fully bootable, redundant copy of my everyday environment. One from which I can snag a file or folder if it gets deleted accidentally. One I can plug into a substitute computer and be in my everyday world while my main computer is in the shop, if it ever needs to be. I'd like Time Machine for my servers but I don't need it for my PowerBook.

c) More slick GUI features. Hey, I skin my OSX to look like OS 9, I hate Aqua.

d) No one is claiming it's gonna be faster on my PowerBook than Tiger, are they? No, I didn't think so.

Why Leopard is a good thing (OK, from one point of view):

http://db.tidbits.com/article/9251


I expect to see some of this stuff percolate into the iPhone/TouchPod Mobile OS X before the SDK is released in February.

I'm surprised no one mentioned WebClip. That's one of the things I'm definitely looking for. I can keep eyes on my sites from Dashboard, and it also gives a use for Dashboard too.

No one has been a more staunch critic of Macromedia and Adobe for shelving such a fine product. However, much of my SoundEdit needs have been answered with AmadeusPro. Only thing lacking is the selection coloring--something that NO other audio editor has.

Try Compositor... though I like the Bazooka--it really nails that fly!
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20585

I like GarageBand, but you cannot export your MIDI. Consider trying out PlayerPro. But other than that, you are right, nothing much out there.
http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...roup_id=139931

However, if your current system is still working for you, why switch?

For a while some applications had no migrated to OS X, so you had users that wanted to run Classic mode so they could run their apps. Or, whomever was in charge of spending money didn't want to purchase all new software licenses, so I was stuck supporting it in Classic.

However, I never even liked the classic Mac OS at all. I hated OS 8 and OS 9 and thought they were extremely nonintuitive. OS X made me a Mac user, if it wasn't for OS X, I would just run Linux and Windows.

Another fine example of Classic being needed for everyday computing is Low End Mac. The site's founder, Dan Knight, still uses Claris Home Page to this day because he cannot find a viable alternative.

Mac Os-x 10.5
 

Hello Mac fans I have use the older Mac and have always love the Mac but took a while before I had my own Mac. I have use Unix, Linux, OS2, MS-DOS, PC-DOS, Win3.11 all the Windows, and Mac-OS 7.5, 8.5. So I do have a little knowledge of computers having built are rebuilt many PCm and I have rebuilt one Mac...Wow, I was suprice it worked! lol.

I am new to the Mac Just got 2 G4 867MHZ dual CPU and I am loving it. The Target disk mode rocks and the new Mac-OS-X I really like the "Time Machine". Great if delete a file by mistake. I would like to know if "Classic Mode" also works in the new Mac-OS-X 5 on an Intel cpu like it does on the G4 cpu.

I know the G5 is "cisc" and the G4 is "risc", so I was wondering if the G5 uses translation software to run G4 code?

Anyone can tell me what they think, but please be nice thanks. :)

I was busy most of the weekend with projects, but last night I got to look at the System forum. Holy mackerel! What a tremendous amount of threads relating to problems with Leopard, especially regarding installation.

I didn't get to os x until 10.4.2, when I purchased my G4 mini in January of 2006. Up until then I'd been using my G4 powermac which was running os 9.1. I imagine that there were a similar amount of problems when there was the transition to os x?

There always seem to be some problems apparently when upgrading to a new major release, for example Jaguar to Panther, or to Tiger, but to Leopard seems more along the lines of the transition from os 9 to os x?

there will always be problems with a new os, just thank god that there no where near as problems as vista had and still has

Just got our copies of Leopard and Leopard Server in the Mail today with our site license software subscription with Apple. I think I am going upgrade my laptop today. I won't upgrade any of the servers anytime soon, and I will not upgrade any user client machines anytime soon. But, I will update my laptop to test drive it. I am sure I am going to probably have some issues, but I guess I could always wipe and reload Tiger.

Well, to start with , I think that you are confusing G5 with Intel (a common mistake with those who have recently switched :)). Both G4 and G5 processors are RISC PowerPC processors that emerged from the AIM Alliance (Apple IBM Motorola). Then Apple switched to Intel, and now we are using Core and Xeon processors (and their various generational derivatives). The Intel processors are CISC in namesake, but have RISC cores.

The crux of the "translation" issue is not whether one processor is RISC and the other is CISC, but merely that the two families of processors have different instructions sets. The Intel Macs use Rosetta (Apple's "translation" engine) to run the older PowerPC instructions.