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cwtnospam 09-19-2007 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin (Post 409748)
MS is trying to lock you into that product, just like how Apple is with iPod and ITMS.

If you mean that Apple is locking you in by not writing the plugins for their competitors, I guess you're right. Why wouldn't you expect vendors like Creative to write the plugins?

wdympcf 09-19-2007 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwtnospam (Post 409741)
There is no way for IE plugins to allow you to use another browser on sites that require IE. Plugins for iTunes can allow you to use songs and other information from vendors other than the iTunes store with your iPod. It's not the same thing at all.

Can you elaborate as to which plug-ins those are? Are they legal and do they support DRM? Because last I checked, Apple will not update their firmware to support anyone else's DRM. And Apple won't open up their DRM to anyone else. That blocks DRM'd music from other stores from being played on the iPod. The only way that I know of to play DRM'd music from other stores on the iPod is to use technology that violates DMCA, and thus is illegal (at least in the US).

If Microsoft said that they were not going to support Java in IE (ActiveX or nothing), and they refused to open up their API so that third parties could write plug-ins to add Java support to IE, then Microsoft would be acting in an anti-competitive manner. You could argue that it's not their fault that IE is the most successful browser. You could argue that it's the combination of IE and ActiveX that makes it such a "great" product. You could argue that Microsoft isn't responsible for writing their code such that other technologies can compete with them. You could also argue that web designers have a choice when designing their webpage (whether to support IE only code, or W3C compliant).

cwtnospam, you have used each and every one of these arguments (with the appropriate iPod and iTMS substitutions) to defend Apple and the iPod/iTMS relationship in this thread. However, none of those arguments hold water. The courts would still find that Microsoft acted in an anti-competitive manner. If the courts could find that Microsoft was acting anti-competitively, then they could just as easily find that Apple is acting anti-competitively in this case.

If you still can't see the logic here, you will need to go and review some anti-trust legislation and look at some prior rulings on anti-trust in order to see how governments view anti-competitive activities.

ArcticStones 09-19-2007 03:04 PM

A Microsoft plug-in that I want!
 
.
Plugins for Microsoft products? Yes, please!

I would like to plug a decent electronic dictionary into MS Word. Specifically the Oxford Dictionary (such as the one that ships with OSX) and Bokmålsordboka (a Norwegian dictionary) to replace Microsoft’s own word lists, which in my experience are of abominable quality.

I want to use these seamlessly for spell check, and more.

You would think this would be easy, right?
So did I. And yet I have found no solution.

A couple of years ago at MacWorld in San Francisco, I cornered a middle-upper level Microsoft employee and presented my wish, asking what was available. His answer? As far as he knew, nothing was – and according to him it simply wasn’t going to happen in the foreseeable future.

Hopefully someone here can tell me that I am wrong, that he is wrong, and that there is a wonderful solution out there that I have somehow overlooked.

Best regards,
ArcticStones
.

cwtnospam 09-19-2007 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdympcf (Post 409780)
Can you elaborate as to which plug-ins those are? Are they legal and do they support DRM?

Check my previous posts in this thread for links that claim to allow audio to be added from other sources. Do they support DRM? Probably not, but I suppose they could if the developer desired it. That's my point, it's DRM that is the problem, not the iPod or iTunes.

Your logic is correct, but the comparison between the iPod and the internet doesn't hold. What Microsoft has done is use their power with large corporations to push highly proprietary ActiveX onto the web, forcing people who don't want to use Windows and IE into using them. I'm one of them.

There is nothing that Apple is doing that forces users of competing mp3 players to use the iTunes music store or use the iPod. If you have a Creative Zen, you can get all the same music anywhere but the iTunes store, and that doesn't harm you at all. I can't get to my corporate site on my Mac without using Windows through virtualization or emulation. That does harm me.

tlarkin 09-19-2007 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwtnospam (Post 409791)
There is nothing that Apple is doing that forces users of competing mp3 players to use the iTunes music store or use the iPod. If you have a Creative Zen, you can get all the same music anywhere but the iTunes store, and that doesn't harm you at all. I can't get to my corporate site on my Mac without using Windows through virtualization or emulation. That does harm me.

In retrospect only iPods work with ITMS, and your ipod doesn't support other online music stores. In fact Apple sued real media when they tried to add iPod support for their music subscription service. I think since then it has been rectified but only after a court case. Also, apple locks you in to their system. You can't even virtualize OS X, which is a huge pain in the ass for people like me, who regularly use virtual machines as a basis of which to test things, not to mention its benefits for the user base.

Every single MP3 playback device allows you to rip your own music DRM free, that is a non issue because every product allows that. Now, when you look at content online for purchasing music apple traps you in their platform.

Also, using your logic, it is your Corporations fault for designing a heavy active X website which you need access to.

cwtnospam 09-19-2007 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin (Post 409803)
In retrospect only iPods work with ITMS, and your ipod doesn't support other online music stores. In fact Apple sued real media when they tried to add iPod support for their music subscription service. I think since then it has been rectified but only after a court case. Also, apple locks you in to their system. You can't even virtualize OS X, which is a huge pain in the ass for people like me, who regularly use virtual machines as a basis of which to test things, not to mention its benefits for the user base.

Any store that sells DRM free music can work with the iPod.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin (Post 409803)
Also, using your logic, it is your Corporations fault for designing a heavy active X website which you need access to.

Yes, it's their fault for being suckered into it, but it's still a much bigger problem, and not even close to being unique to this company.

tlarkin 09-19-2007 04:00 PM

I was referring to subscription music services, yahoo music, napster, and real's online audio store.

cwtnospam 09-19-2007 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin (Post 409809)
I was referring to subscription music services, yahoo music, napster, and real's online audio store.

Well, if you want to talk about huge rip offs, let's talk about renting. :D


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