Can't drag files from some DVDs I've burned
 

I need a movie file (which I shot and created) on a DVD (which I burned) yet I can not drag it to any hard drive. Instead, I get the no smoking sign...white circle with a diagonal line thru it.

permissions tell me I ought to be able to do what ever I want to.

I tried a trick an Apple Genius suggested: load the problem DVD, launch Disk Utility, make a new image from that DVD.

the image was created, but I STILL can't drag things out of that newly-created image.

The only "big" thing I've done recently was to upgrade to 10.4.10

I've never had DVD issues; never had issues retrieving things I have burned onto DVD before this.

Any clues?

gphz

Open up your Terminal (it's in /Applications/Utilities). Also have the folder that encloses the file that you want to drag off of the hard drive visible somewhere in the Finder.

Now, copy/paste the following command from here into your Terminal:

ls -alo

Now, make sure that there is a space after the -alo. If there's no space, add one by hitting the spacebar once.

Is there a space? You need one. Triple check.

Now, drag the folder that encloses the file you want onto the Terminal window. It should autocomplete the path to the enclosing folder in your Terminal window, so it looks something like

ls -alo /Volumes/DVDname/foldername

Now, hit the Return key.

Copy/paste the entire transcript--commands and results to the forum here.

Trevor

OK, Trevor...

I took pains to make sure that space was in there...here's what resulted from following your instructions:


Last login: Thu Jul 5 17:38:44 on ttyp1
Welcome to Darwin!
dashs-mac-mini:~ dash$ ls -alo /Volumes/Gram\ 2,\ highway\ clip,\ info\ core\ sept\ 06,\ pen\ ink\ watercolor\ scans/Gram\ 2,\ highway\ clip,\ info\ core\ sept\ 06,\ pen\ ink\ watercolor\ scans/
total 7486896
drwxr-xr-x 7 dash dash - 238 Sep 21 2006 .
drwxr-xr-x 4 dash dash - 136 Sep 21 2006 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 dash dash - 6148 Sep 21 2006 .DS_Store
-rw-r--r-- 1 dash dash - 2427584512 Sep 20 2006 Gram Part 2.img
drwxr-xr-x 25 dash dash - 850 Sep 21 2006 InfoCore Sept 21 2006
drwxr-xr-x 30 dash dash - 1020 Sep 21 2006 Pen and Ink, Watercolor Scans Ready
-rw-r--r-- 1 dash dash - 1405696462 Mar 10 2006 highway clips.mov
dashs-mac-mini:~ dash$

Assuming that your shortname is dash, I see no problems at all with you dragging that .mov file off of that DVD.

Although you shouldn't have to, you can try Getting Info on the DVD and clicking the box "Ignore ownership on this volume".

If that doesn't help, then the only other thing I can conclude is that the problem is not in dragging it off the DVD, but the location where you are dragging it TO.

Tell us about the locations you've tried to drag to.

Trevor

"Ignore Ownership" is checked on that DVD

my short name IS dash.

I have tried to drag my file onto the Mini's internal drive, and onto 3 other drives which are external 7200RPM FW drives.

when I burned this disc some months ago, I made 2 copies of the back up (I always do) plus, I "proofed" each disc by dragging a file off of it and opening/playing, whatever the case may be.

gphz

When you dragged to your Mini's internal drive, did you drag it to somewhere that you own, such as your user's Desktop? Or to somewhere else?

Trevor

I just tried exhaustively to drag into ANY folder on the Mini's internal drive: shared, user, documents, desktop, etc.

still get the "no-smoking" symbol.,

gphz

Just a thought if you get really desperate, you might be able to open your movie in Quicktime Pro, copy & paste it into a New Player and Save as a self contained movie.

It'll probably take a lot of time to save considering the file is 1.3GB, but if you don't find any other solution you might want to give it a go.

heh, well I did do something very much like that..

great for that movie, but I'm testing more and more discs which are having the same problem....

I'm really starting to think it's something about upgrading to 10.4.9, which is the last major thing I did.

everyone tells me no, no, no, that in no way could this be true, but it's becoming clear that the only other explanation is that all of my media has gone bad all at the same time.

while this is within the realm of possibility, I find it highly unlikely, as I take pains to protect my media.

basically, the body of my professional work lives on these DVDs, and is no small thing to me, so I am keenly interested in exhausting all possibliities.

as long as you are willing to toss suggestions my way, I am willing to try them out.

thanks for your help and patience.

gphaze

Tried repairing permissions with Disk Utility? This made be bad advice but you could also try installing the 10.4.10 combo update if 10.4.9 did indeed break something.

sorry...I mis-typed...I HAD been on 10.4.9; the last big thing I did was upgrade to 10.4.10


I would happily go back to get my work back!

good gravy, this is not a good feeling.

g

OK, I am seriously starting to freak here...(dizzy, seeing spots, etc)

I have 2 minis which t his has happened to

I wiped and went to a basic tiger nistall on on e oof them and no help!

if these discs are unreadable to me, it's as thuogh all of my creation and sweat and work is gone. poof!

please help me understand why this no smoking signg and not allow me to copy my own work from my own discs which I burned on my own computers back to those computers?

nothing is making sense here.

help please?!

thanks!

gphz

I have begun testing and disc after disc afer disc has this no smoking symbol when I try to drag files normally onto a hard drive.

now, at least two discs are such that if I drag ALL the contents into my shared folder, they go. not the top folder on the DVD, but all of the stuff within that folder, if I select all and drag to Shared, they appear to copy.

while this is better than having all the contents of the disc lost to me forever, it still is not correct, proper function, compared to the way it has been, ie, I drag files to where I need them, and only those files I choose.

is there anyway to understand or learn the cause (and solution) of this bad problem?

gphz

after 2 trips to the genius bar and several phone calls to tech support the conclusion is that it's the media that's the culprit.

yet, only sort of....

even tho my burner says it supports -R and +R, apple really only advises using -R.

would have been nice to know that 90 DVDs ago.

Also, they suspected the brand of media. I won't name names, but it's a well known brand starting with the letter T.

I'm now baffled as to how to safely archive my work. the genius admitted that it was a wierd problem, admitted that I *should* be able to get my data off a DVD, and was also puzzled at the "all of a sudden" nature of this problem. Yet, there was nothing conclusive offered. Just a lot of "shoulds" and "ought tos."

Maybe I need to think about getting more disc storage, to augment that with DVD burning and hope for the best? who knows!?

Thanks to all who offered helpful suggestions!

gphz

It is mysterious, but I'm dubious of the media explanation.

Let's try copying with the Terminal, instead of with the Finder. If there's a problem using that method, we should see an explicit error message instead of just the verboten sign. I'll use the file that you've shown us above in post #3, so please put that same DVD as in post #3 into your optical drive first.

Next, open up your Terminal, which is in /Applications/Utilities.

Then, copy/paste the command below into your Terminal, and hit the Return key:

This should copy the file "highway clips.mov" to your Desktop. It will take awhile, and there will be no feedback while it is happening (other than hearing the DVD spin up), so just let the process take place. When it is complete, all you should get is another command prompt--no success message. This is normal.

If there is an error message, please copy both the command and the error message to the forum for us to see.

Trevor

Sorry for taking a bit to get back.

I just tried your idea/terminal command and it worked with no error message.

Could this be essential what I did with the Automator workflow I made the other day while experimenting with this problem?

again, thank you!

gphz

Excellent, some progress!

I'm not sure, but I think that your Automator workflow is more likely to use the Finder for copying. What you used above was the command line, which works as it should. If you also have an Automator workflow that successfully copies, then that makes it even more mysterious why the Finder doesn't do it right. You may want to report this as a bug to Apple.

Trevor

Well, yeah, but... I spent a *lot* of time on this issue, both on the phone and driving to the Genius bar, and Apple (thru its representatives) has made it abundantly clear that they consider my issue to be a problem with my media.

I've heard all sorts of stories about this media and that from various people..which brands are good, which are lousy (not everyone agrees which is which) and whether +R is better, or -R.

I don't think that I could convince them that it might be an issue, largely because I don't have the vocabulary or knowledge base to draw on to make the case convincingly. Now, a programmer, or a seasoned Mac technical person might have a chance at it.

I am just a 'user.'

As far as they're concerned, I *can* get files off the DVDs, albeit in an inconvenient way, and that fact enables them to sort of wash their hands of me and my DVD problem.

gphz

It's quite clear from the fact that you can get files off the media using the command line, that it's not a media problem. Whatever Apple rep tells you otherwise when faced with the current facts in evidence is just stupid. How could a media "know" whether you were copying something from the command line or the Finder?

I was always dubious of this media explanation, but the fact that you can copy from the command line proves that it is wrong.

Yeah, I know. I always hate that. I've worked as a mastering engineer, which means dealing with many brands of optical media every day. Mastering engineers need to know facts about reliability, and BLER rates, and other arcana of CD media in order to make sure that CD masters arrive at the glass mastering facility safely and with zero problems. Based on that I can tell you that most everything that people told you is wrong. People always tell you that brand X is bad and brand Y is good, but they base their stance only on what works well with their brand of burner. And different brands (and even models) of burners act differently with different brands of media. So to make statements about Brand X and Brand Y, you really need to run BLER tests and longevity tests with a huge range of burners and media, or else limit the statement to brands of media with specific models of burner. People spouting off about brands of media haven't done that (well, unless you're lucky enough to be talking to Glenn Meadows, legendary Nashville mastering engineer, who has done those kinds of tests).

Trevor

well, I'm with you! to me, "bad" media is media that can't be read, and from which files can not be successfully retrieved.

what really cranks me is the "all of a sudden" nature of this issue. Not 2 weeks before, I'd gotten files off some of the same now problematic discs, with no issue.

what really sunk my argument was when the Genius tried to copy a file from one of my DVDs on a Mac Book there in the store, and got the same "no smoking" icon.

"Yeah. It's yer media. Definitely!!" was what she said.

she and the other Geniuses agreed it was a wierd problem (I can copy either ALL files or none from within a folder on a DVD) but as far as they were concerned, my media was to blame.

And you know how people can get when their minds are made up..

gphz

Yeah - but smart people (and we should give the Apple Geniuses the benefit of the doubt here) will change their minds when presented with contrary evidence. And the fact that you can copy the files with the Terminal command is such evidence - you should show this to the Apple Geniuses.

Just to add my two cents worth: While the ability of the command line to successfully copy one file, where the Finder failed does seem to suggest a software issue rather than a media issue, it's not a slam dunk ... yet.

I don't know about the inner workings of the two file copy methods, but is it possible that there is some different low-level mechanism between the two? Could, for instance, the command line version have a greater tolerance for read errors? Maybe it retries bad 'sectors' more times than the Finder copy does? I don't know...are there other ways in which one file copy method could possibly succeed on 'dodgy' media where another would fail outright?

I'm thinking of my own experiences with extracting files of scratched CDs using different apps.

Also, just because it worked once with one file, doesn't mean that every time it will work in the command line, when every time it fails in Finder.

Fascinating stuff... do keep asking the questions! :)

gphaze, that highway clip.mov file which was successfully copied via the command line...

Was it readable and able to be worked with in whichever app you have intended for it?

Another question: since discovering that you have this problem, have you tried burning a data dvd onto the same old media, then attempt to copy a file back to your computer?

I apologize if this has been mentioned already and I missed it in a previous post.

I am experiencing this problem as well! I have a bunch of sony data DVD-Rs that I use to back-up files on. Just today I realized that I can no longer drag and drop items onto my desktop (I get the no smoking sign as well) EVEN THOUGH i do have read access to the files. For example, I can double click on a video file located on the DVD-R and it plays just fine, I just can't copy it to my hard drive!

Also noticed I can't copy from other volumes such as samba shares. This is such an annoying bug!

I know for a fact that this is not the media. The sony DVD-Rs I use are very high quality and I've never had a problem copying files from the EXACT disks before.

My specs are as follows: First generation macbook, intel core duo 2.0GHz, 2GB RAM, Mashita superdrive.

whoops, sorry for the double post!

jonathansmith68:
You should try copying one of the troublesome files via the command-line as suggested above.

I purchased a mbp yesterday. It's running 10.4.10. I just tried some of my older back up cd-r and dvd-r disks. All files viewed appropriately and were able to be copied to the desktop.

The install disk which came with the mbp says 10.4.8 is the os version, so the store from which I purchased must have updated to v x.10.

This mbp is a core 2 duo and doesn't have a problem. My older G4 mini which is also updated to 10.4.10 doesn't have a problem.

Is it only intel mini and macbooks with the single core processor which appear to be having this problem?

Jonathan, since gphaze hasn't answered my question, as well as copying via the command line as hayne suggested, have you tried burning a disc and copying from it since updating to 10.4.10?

Is it only discs burned prior to the update which have the copying from Finder problem?

So far, it is only two people that have this problem (as far as this thread goes), so it is a stretch to generalize that.

And I'm just assuming that gphaze's mini has an intel chip. When I reread his OP, I don't believe he had mentioned.

But stretching for generalizations sometimes is the only stretching I get!

Nope, I'm wrong. I'm told my sense of humor is often a real stretch!

:)

Since installing 10.4.10 I HAVE successfully burned a data dvd-r to the same Sony Media that I always use. It was burned and verified successfully. Although I still get the SAME exact problem when trying to do the drag and drop off of these newly burned disks as well as the old disks. I also noticed it is not ALL of my sony burnt media. Some do work, and I'm trying to find out why some work and some don't. Regardless it is ridiculous that not all of them do work since I a bunch of them I have done this from before and it worked fine.

I have not tried the command line copying but i did find an ugly little hack. When trying to drag and drop to my desktop, i noticed when drug over camino it shows the plus sign. I dropped it in there to see what it'd do. It shows me what looked like if you were to go to the index of a server online and see all the files. From there I could right click and download the desktop. This is incredibly ugly though.

Though I might be assuming to much, I believe this is a 10.4.10 bug with some of the first generation optical drives. It's crazy that I have been updated to 10.4.10 since June 27th and just now noticed this. I think that this in fact a bug with a particular model super drive and that not everyone has updated to 10.4.10 yet or that people have not noticed this yet.

One thing to note is that the super drive firmware update did not run on mine. It was really odd, I was under the impression that it would update the firmware on my original core duo macbook's super drive but after a restart it said "No devices were found that require this firmware update." so I'm assuming that the update did not do anything to change my superdrive's firmware. And also note that I have since burned and ripped cds and can read cds fine after all of this.


Edit: The fact that some people have gone as far as to reinstalling the OS and upgrading to 10.4.10 right away on older models such as the mac mini and are still experiencing these problems makes me think that this is for sure a 10.4.10 bug. So what can I do to report this? I think I'll be giving apple support a call today.

I called apple today, in hopes to finding an answer to my problem. The first lady had me create a new user, same problem existed, had me enter a safeboot, same problem existed, i reset something by holding down the power button with the battery removed, same problem existed. finally she had me do an archive and install. after doing this i noticed that 10.4.6 was restored. right away i attempted this task again, with no luck. called the second time to say that it still wasn't working and they asked me to update to 10.4.10.

the fact that the problem was still occurring while 10.4.6 was installed kind of debunked my 10.4.10 bug theory. anyways, i called a third time, and was directed towards a product specialists or something. we talked a long time, and after a lot of tests, he was stuck as well. he insisted that i do an erase and install of mac os x in order to see if this a hardware or a software issue.

anyways, just got finished, tried it out with 10.4.6, STILL THE SAME PROBLEM! for the heck of it, i updated the software to 10.4.10 and still getting this same problem.

also, since i now have fully reformatted and installed Mac OS X again, i have tried burning a new dvd-r and i get the same problem, so it's not just old disks of mine that are causing the problem, seems to have a problem with all burned media.

my new theory now is, the firmware update attempted to run and somehow bombed or did not finish correct leaving this annoying problem. the only thing i'm confused with is i was under the impression that the firmware update didn't even run at all since it supposedly couldn't find any compatible super drives to upgrade the firmware of.

i'm pretty much 100% sure that this is a hardware issue (most likely the new super drive firmware update). the reason i think this is since the superdrive firmware was just recently released, and i have heard of many cases of people's superdrives being bricked. though, note that mine is not currently bricked where as i can (for the most part) read optical disks, and burn to optical disks.

tell me what you think! gphaze, what happened when you attempted (or maybe successfully) ran the firmware update? if anyone has any suggestions please feel free to add!

turns out that is not the end of this.

through furthermore testing, i have now discovered that i cannot drag and drop (nor copy and paste) from virtual disk images (disk images mounted when double clicking on a .dmg file) nor can i drag and drop (nor copy and paste) from networked samba shares!

I think the entire system's firmware has gone bad. The third guy I talked to at apple mentioned something about going to an apple store and having them do a firmware restoration. Only problem is that the closest apple store is a good 2 hours away from here.

gphaze, did you have similar problems? gphaze did you happen to upgrade the RAM of your mac minis? (yourself and not just a BTO option)

JS68, for a moment it sounded as if it were the optical drive, but since you're having difficulty with dmg virtual discs, that appears to rule that out.

I was going to relay some stories about bad superdrives earlier this year, but it doesn't seem moot any longer.

Sorry about not being helpful.

jonathansmith68:
You should try copying via the command-line like suggested above. You seem to have gone through a of things but not tried this relatively simple test - or maybe I missed it?

i agree, i thought i was on to something when i thought it was the optical drive, but now i just have no idea what to think. considering i have done a full erase and re-install of mac os x, i'm almost 100% sure this is a hardware or firmware (possibly the firmware of the entire mainboard or something) issue.

hayne, i did do your terminal copy idea, and it worked without a hitch. though this is a working alternative, it's tedious. i'd assume that since just the graphical "drag and drop" is not working, that it's just a software issue, but the fact that i have done so many different tests, even an archive and install and lastly a full erase and re-install, it's making me think that this is a hardware or firmware issue (as odd as that sounds).

the command i used was the following:

jonathan-smiths-computer:~ jonathansmith$ cp /Volumes/test/01327_lichen_2560x1600.jpg ~/Desktop/test_image.jpg

thanks for the idea, glad to see it worked, this is just such a strange issue. apple is supposed to call me back tomorrow and i'll more likely be sending my macbook in for a firmware restoration or something.

After you did the erase & install of OS X, did you try the drag & drop before installing any 3rd-party software?

yes, I did. right after the Tiger re-install was complete, and before putting on ANYthing not Apple.

gphz

well, i just solved my problem! i actually upgraded my RAM to 2 gigs a while back and i was curious if the third party RAM was maybe causing this problem. i swaped out my 2 gigs for my original 1 gig supplied by apple. booted up, and to my surprise drag and drop worked perfectly!

i got worried, thinking maybe my RAM is bad, so i shut down my macbook, put back my 2 gigs in and that worked perfectly fine too!

rebooted and held down the "D" key in order to run a hardware diagnostics test. ran the "extensive test" on my RAM and it came back with no errors!

gphaze, i know it sounds crazy, but maybe you should try shutting down your mac and re-seating the RAM. also i am curious, did you happen to upgrade the RAM of your mac?

if you do end up trying this post back and tell us what happens!

I bought these Minis from Apple with factory-installed 1 gig sticks, so...it's their RAM.

Plus, they're minis...I ain't goin in there!

g

alright try this than, if you haven't already, try shutting it down for a good 5 or 10 minutes, totally unplug it from the power source so the RAM can clear out anything it may have left in there. probably sounds like a strange request but i'm curious if that will fix anything.

yeah, I did that, too...including the 2 times I went to the genius bar.

gphz

So, I'd be interested in hearing from smarter brains than mine... does this mean that a terminal copy maybe uses less memory, or addresses a different area of memory than finder does? It does seem strange that a RAM fault (whether bad ram or improperly seated ram) would manifest in this way, and only this way, repeatedly.

Remind me again what type of files are being copied?
The type of file might affect what operations get done by Finder versus the command-line 'cp'. E.g. the Finder might be updating a preview icon while 'cp' wouldn't do that.
And of course using the Finder does take more memory and CPU than using 'cp' since the graphical interface is being updated. So it is quite likely that more (and possibly different parts of) RAM is being accessed when you use the Finder.

One thing that you might try is to run the following command in a Terminal window:

lsof | grep Finder > myoutput.txt

and then try to do the drag & drop using Finder, then go back to the Terminal window and type Control-C to stop the command. (I.e. hold down the 'ctrl' key and then press the C key.

Then show us the contents of that myoutput.txt file - preferably by attaching it to your reply by using the Manage Attachments button at the bottom when you reply.

Another thing to do after you try the drag & drop again is to use the "Console" application (under /Applications/Utilities) and look for error messages in either console.log or system.log that are timestamped around the time when you tried the drag & drop.
(You can get access to console.log & system.log via specific menu items in the Console app's "File" menu.)
Show us these error messages.

well, I am mo def not a smarter brain, but from what I gathered from the "geniuses" and from the product specialists is that +R media is less compatible.

I don't know whether that is true as I don't have hundreds of machines at my disposal to test, prove, disprove that statement.

I don't know why TDK would make 100 zillion pieces of media which are not widely compatible with machines in use.

I don't know why Apple would support (but not really) a media type which it says isn't compatible.

I don't know why my media, which had formerly worked, now doesn't (the conventional, drag and drop way)

I don't know why the Genius was comfortable seeing that I can drag all files from a disc but not individual ones, and saying that that was functional enough for me not to need service or support.

I only know what makes sense to me, what I have seen with my own eyeballs, what I have tried to argue with the apple people.

I could go on and on testing, trying this, trying that, but what it comes down to is can I take a piece of normal media, burn it in my machine, then retrieve files from that very same media burned on that very same machine?

The answer is, yeah, but not really always.

That is what I'm left with.

And some how, for some reason, the world's most modern, most bestest, most advanced, most lickable, most coolest, most powerful OS can't deal with +R media.

I'd keep scratching my noodle over it, but I'd like to keep my hair.

cheers!

gphz

me too
 

I have the exact same problem. However, I do use -r software and it won't copy either. mac osx 10.4.10 here, never had problem before. Powerbook g4 1.67 15" super drive. I also use different media than you since you said it begins with a t. I am using verbatim mostly. What is the deal?

ps.
 

i can't drag any but can drag all at the same time. sucks when you have 4.3 gb on a disc and only 1 or 2 gb free.

nobody mentioned this but is it maybe a virus?

One other thing that nobody mentioned that may be of great importance and offer some insight into what causes this problem... When clicking and dragging, the no smoking symbol appears, but when holding over a folder, it doesn't open the file for you or even highlite it like normal.
Furthermore, if you hold it over macintosh HD, Applications, Desktop, or any others on the left bar, it shows the green plus but again, doesn't open the folder if you stay over it, and when you drop it doesn't go into the folder.


Ps I tried removing the ram ( one stick, then both with the battery) and letting it sit before starting it up (tried with 1 stick) and no dice.

NO. It is most definitely not a virus.

Trevor

I don't know.

-R and verbatim are what the Apple Genius said that Apple recommends.

I had the extra confusion of having had no problem with this media (which I burned and retrieved from no problem) then suddenly HAVING a problem.

gphz

Grithole, by any chance have you tried the tests which hayne mentions in a few various posts earlier in this thread?

There are times when it's been tough to keep track of what testing has been recommended, so I'll sometimes copy and paste into a TextEdit document, the posts of just one person who is trying to help. This way I can follow more easily that one person's recommendations, and post back the results of those tests.

gphz, we proved back in post #16 that the problem was not the media. The explanation given by the Apple Genius is wrong. If you can copy from the command line, then the media is just fine. The problem is something related to the way that you are copying in the Finder. At this point, I would guess a Finder bug, although it could be related to the way the Finder is interacting with something else on your computer.

But it is not the media.

Trevor

you and I both know it, but getting Apple to accept and act on this knowledge is another can of beans.

Grithole is saying he has problems with -R Verbatim, which is a brand and media type Apple says they recommend.

It almost seems like there's an underlying issue with burners or whatever software governs their interaction with the OS.

gphaze

Been doing some investigating into this problem and came across the following from a Mactech magazine:

http: //www.mactech.com /articles/mactech/ Vol.18/18.12/Metadata/index .html

What are your thoughts?

I'm not sure what in that article (about meta-data) you think is relevant to the current problem.

This thread made reference to Finder having a problem copying information as oppose to using Terminal.
When trying to investigate why, i read comments from other people suggesting when dragging files to other locations certain 'DS Store Files' stored in that location cannot be overwritten therefore prohibiting copying of data.

The article in the link i posted made reference to the cp command line in terminal ignoring any metadata when copying or moving files.

I dont have the technical expertise to verify any of this so i posted a comment here to shed further light on this problem.

The .DS_Store files might be part of the problem.
The .DS_Store files don't hold anything essential - they store info about the size & configuration of the Finder window for a folder. And the Finder comments that you put into the Get Info window seem to get stored in the .DS_Stored files.
But if you haven't been adding comments to your files using Get Info, you can remove the .DS_Store files without fear of losing any info.

So that's something you could try as an experiment - remove the .DS_Store file for the destination folder before trying again to drag files from the DVD.
You can remove the .DS_Store file using the following command once you are in that folder in a Terminal window:

rm .DS_Store

(See this Unix FAQ for info on navigating to a folder in a Terminal window.)

If you get an error message saying that you don't have permission to remove the .DS_Store file, then please run the following command and show us the results:

ls -l .DS_Store

and then you can remove it via the following command (which will prompt you for your password):

sudo rm .DS_Store

Another idea to figure out what is happening here is to use the Unix command 'fs_usage' in a Terminal window while you are doing the dragging of the files from the DVD to the destination. The 'fs_usage' command shows what files are being accessed.

To try this, open a Terminal window and copy/paste in the following command:

sudo fs_usage -e -w > ~/fs_usage_output.txt

Then proceed to try to drag the file you want to copy from the DVD to the destination on your hard disk.
After that has finished (successfully or not), go back to the Terminal window and hold down the Control ('cntrl') key and then press the C key. This (Control-C) will stop the 'fs_usage' command and then you can use your favourite text editor to look at the file "fs_usage_output.txt" that is in your home folder.
Show us the section of that file where the file you are trying to copy is mentioned. Or just the whole file if it's not too long. (You can attach it as a plain text file, using the "Manage Attachments" button at the bottom when you reply).

Note: it is best to quit all other programs than Finder when doing this in order to minimize the amount of other file accesses that will get recorded by 'fs_usage'

Ok this is a part of the text file from the command you suggested:

Is this enough information? The complete file is quite extensive.

The rm .DS_Store command showed there was no file of this name in the destination folder. (This was a new folder i created on the desktop to copy the files too)
The ls -l .DS_Store command I ran on the DVD which displayed:
-rwxr-xr-x 1 Si Si 6148 Sep 4 19:08 .DS_Store

Does this help?

- Is there a way to create a new disk image of the DVD without copying the .DS_Store files?

It would be better to show us more of that file - as I said earlier, it is best to attach the file instead of copying & pasting from it.

But it is interesting that it mentions /Library/OpenBase - do you know anything about this? This (OpenBase) has been mentioned in some other threads - some people have noticed it causing trouble:
http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=57365
http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=62540

I've attached the file as requested.

OpenBase, i've never heard of but i did install Developer Tools from the OSX Install Disc sometime ago.

1) The log makes repeated mention of the file "Best.Service.Drums.Overkill.VSTi.DXi.RTAS.AU.HYBRID.DVDR-DYNAMiCS" - is that the file that you were trying to copy via drag & drop?

2) The log shows some activity by MagicMenu - I would recommend disabling (or preferably uninstalling) this while you are troubleshooting.

3) See the other threads I mentioned above on how to uninstall OpenBase. It is (I think) part of WebObjects and you probably aren't using it, and it might be causing trouble.

"Best.Service.Drums.Overkill.VSTi.DXi.RTAS.AU.HYBRID.DVDR-DYNAMiCS" is the volume name (Name of the DVD) The files im dragging are contained within a folder on the disc. The moment i start dragging any of these files to a destination its immediately displaying the prohibited symbol.

It's a bit strange that the name of the source folder and the name of the file being dragged does not appear in the fs_usage output. But maybe that's normal and I'm not understanding something.

I've uninstalled the Developer Tools and OpenBase.
Here is another attachment from the report run as I tried dragging the files to the Desktop.

The new report shows the same thing - that Finder is continually doing 'getattrlist' on the source folder (where you are dragging the file from).

I don't know what would cause it to do the same operation over and over.
Sorry - I don't have any suggestions as to what to do next.
Maybe try doing the 'fs_usage' thing with a DVD that you can drag files from to see what the difference is.

Thanks for your suggestions with this.

One process which worked for anybody else who's also trying to investigate this problem, I used SkyTag software called File Buddy 9, this allowed me to copy the data DVD contents to any location.

Although this isn't a method using 'Finder', it just highlights what you can and cannot do with this current problem.

I posted earlier in this thread and I just wanted to come back and post a little bit more of the information that I have discovered. I seemed to have the the no drag and drop problem when I inserted this ONE disk. After inserting and attempting with that one disk it seemed to effect all volumes that you would happen to drag and drop from. For instance, any kind of samba share, virtual disk image, etc. Here's where my problem has been different from everyone elses. I simply popped out the RAM and re-seated it, booted up my Macbook, and everything seemed to be completely normal... unless I inserted that same exact disk. So technically I get what apple is saying by "it's the media," but technically it's not.

I'm thinking the problem was how my mac burned this particular disk. I BELIEVE i was using toast, but I don't remember. Could have been through finder, but I'm about 90% sure it was toast.

Anyways just curious, gphaze, did you happen to burn those disks in toast or in finder?

Also gphaze, you said you tried it out at a few other mac's at the mac store. Did you happen to be trying that disk that you've been trying on your mac? I think the problem doesn't lie within the actual brand of the media or the -r vs. +r but rather an error happened when burning the disk (something that is conflicting with finder, since you can do the command line copying just fine).

I doubt this information helped at all, but I am happy that I discovered the solution to my problem!

Any resolution?
 

I have the same problem here. Tested the Disk on a G5 and a G4.
Using Unix style command line I can copy the data without issue.
The Finder not only refuses but appears to pooge the finder until I reboot the machine!
The DVD in question also has a .DS_Store and hidden desktop files. Has anyone considered that these files could be causing the problem with the Finder? Also, this DVD came from a foreign teritory. Could it be a language localization problem?

To add to the issue. A client burnt images to DVD's from which we can't drag or copy files from. The files open okay and can be resaved to any location. He uses a MBP. Discs I burnt on my MBP read and copy fine until I put one of his discs in. Then the problem occurs with all discs until a restart. I even had the problem with a Flash Drive after trying to copy from my clients disc. We've tried the discs in 2 MBP's and a Dual 1.25 G4. My MBP and G4 both on OS 10.4.10. My clients I think on 10.4.7. Tried 2 brands of DVD's with the same result. CD's are no problem. Strange behaviour I've never seen before.

Your client whose burnt DVDs exhibit this problem on your mbp's and ppc's which are running 10.4.10 don't exhibit this problem on the client's machine? Your client is still able to drag files from his burnt DVDs on his own machine?

Might you know how your client burned those DVDs, for example, did the client use Finder, Disk Utility, or a third party app such as Toast or Liquid CD?

Given what jonathansmith68 recently posted, it might be good to have that information.

Sorry, missed that bit of info. The problem occurs on his MBP as well and with discs burnt from Finder and with Toast. He also had a call from one of his clients who also could not drag the images from the disc. Almost as if my clients MBP is somehow locking the disc. Although we can open the images okay.

Not that I have insight into this, but because your client was running 10.4.7, I thought maybe that he was still able to drag and copy off those discs.

If I had read the posts correctly, and I've been known not to, I'd had the impression from the original couple persons posting in this thread, that before updating to 10.4.10, they'd still been able to drag files off the discs which could no longer do so after updating.

It sounds as if your client is still running 10.4.7, and can't drag files off the discs to copy them.

I can't recall reading in the posts, has anyone tried drag copying off the discs on a windows box?

Hey,
There's a way to drag files from any disc to your desktop if you're having problems doing so. An extra step, but it's easy. If you can't drag a folder, or document, whatever from a disc, onto your computer... just get DropStuff - from Stuffit.

1. Drag the file that you want on your computer into DropStuff.
2. Let it Compress the file.
3. When it's done, just use Stuffit Expander and the files will be on your computer.

It's a stupid problem, but that's a relatively easy solution.
lp

Just thought I'd revisit this thread to add a little bit of information, in hopes that people can more thoroughly troubleshoot this error.

When I was experiencing this problem, Apple Tech support DID have me attempt to copy (drag and drop) the files off the disc (same disc that was given me issues on my Mac) onto a windows box and I WAS in fact successful.

Been awhile since I've seen this thread, or even thought about it.

Thanks jonathansmith68 for answering my question about winboxes.

And Louis Patrick had an interesting work around.

We're now in the new year, and I wonder if either of the original posting people (or any having had this problem) have upgraded to 10.4.11 and were able to drag/copy, or if either has installed Leopard and tried from those discs which had the problem?

i am running 10.4.11 and this problem came up this morning.
i performed the select all function and i seem to be able to drop media anywhere which is a great relief, also zipping works. i hope they get this sorted out soon.

me too!
 

hey all, this just happened to me this morning... very aggravating! I'm running a QS 800mhz g4 with osx10.4.11. Was moving some avi files from dvd's and realized all of a sudden I couldn't drag and drop as stated by the above posters. However, i would like to note that I had put a dvd in, and drag a file, fine. I put the next dvd in, got the no smoking symbol, bad. Put the previous disk(which had worked fine 2 minutes ago) and it gave the no smoking symbol as well. The select all command works, and I use toast 8. I have an after market dvd burner, and I use multiple types of blank media(whatever's on sale, I've never had a problem... except with dynex!), so I'm compelled to believe a system error of some sort. the fact that one second it did, the next second it didn't is strange, and I've been on x.11 for a while now...

any thoughts?

trailblazer;

can't tell whether you tried this or not, but on those DVDs where you got the no smoking symbol, did you try dragging the *whole* DVD to your drive?

For me, this worked. Yeah, it's stupid to wait 20 mins+ just for one file, but better than nothing in that it gets the DVD contents copied to your drive.

Also, apple sez -R is the better media, not +R, despite the fact that my BTO SuperDrive says that it supports both. A Genius at the Genius Bar said something like "Well, we support it, but we don't *really* support it."

Whatever that means.

The further (and better) reason the Genius gave for using -R is that it's more universal in terms of the platforms that accept it.

I'd been having this problem under a version of Tiger prior to 10.4.11...Now, I seem not to be having it at ALL!

Which does me no good, but it suggests that it might have been related to the earlier version of the Mac OS, perhaps, a bug??

Hope this helps and you find some kind of workaround.

gphz

yeah, the select all trick works... kinda. I did a little bit of playing around today and found some new, interesting facts-

1) all the dvds I put in the machine must be ejected via the key board or a left click with the mouse. they will sit idle if you drag them to the trash.

2) I have 3 external harddrive hooked up to my machine. I can drag items from the desktop TO the hard drives, but not onto the desktop FROM the hard drives. I get the same no smoking symbol. However creating a folder inside the ex and selecting all(even with one file in the folder) works.

3) It seems that when I do the select all trick, the finder always leaves out a file. No matter how many files I drag, it always leaves out one. and it seems to always be to the left hand side of the window, because when you rearrange the files to get the missed file on the other side of the window, you will get the file.

that being said, I ran disk warrior and disk utility, and nothing. This SEEMS to be an issue with the finder/window manager/ permissions, and yes I checked the permissions, perfectly fine.

As far as apple goes, those guys are jerks. They told me when my g5 blew a third power supply in 3 months that it was a part failure. They don't know anything remotely useful except how to teach novice users how to navigate safari and open up hard drive files. The "gurus" at the retail stores are ill equipped or trained to handle problems that stump us advanced users, and will give you whatever answer they have to to get you out the door.

as far as media, it's always been my understanding that -r came before +r, and that +r was an improvement over the previous media. I am 100% sure that this is not a media problem, because I have been burning dvds on +r media for years on all different kinds of brands and until two days ago could pop anything I have burnt into the computer with no problem. The only media I have ever had a problem with was Dynex. Stay away from them. They suck.

as a final note, I was wondering what people might think of a failing hard drive working into this? The machine hasn't exhibited any other effects of the drive going bad, but maybe this is the beggining?

yeah, I have gotten some pretty lousy treatment from those "geniuses." One of them let me sit on a hard stool for 3-1/2 hours knowing full well he wasn't going to get to me, yet somehow couldn't scrape together the cortex to save me some chair time. Then when 5:00 quittin' time came, he said, "well, that's it. you'll have to come back tomorrow." *Most* unprofessional, IMHO.

And I've been far more impressed with the troubleshooting chops of the phone support people. They've actually solved problems, whereas some of these Geniuses are so in love with all they know, they've actually roadblocked repairs!

wish I could help with your partic situation, but I am convinced there's something up with the burners.

gphz

Wait........what do you do exactly after you copy it.....where do you paste it?

I have this problem too! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEBODY HELP!
 

Hello all. I realize this thread seems to be dead, but perhaps I can breath new life into it.

I just started having this exact problem today. A client called me and said that his archived Pro Tools sessions (archives which I created for him, burnt to Verbatim DVD-R media with a Lacie DVD burner on an Intel Mac Pro tower running OS X 10.4.9) were giving him that prohibited / no smoking / go to hell symbol when he tried copying individual files, folders, or the whole DVD.

Solutions that require greater than simian level intelligence will not suffice. It is not professional to tell him "just use the Terminal copy command" (which works) or "did you try zipping them?" Incidently, another hack solution includes dragging the audio files into iTunes. From there they can be dragged elsewhere, but again, this is not a satisfactory solution. If the files cannot be copied in the Finder, they are worthless in the eyes of my client, and I don't blame him.

Just for background; we have been using this computer and burner and media for well over a year and we have never seen this problem before today. It seems unlikely to me that the media or burners are responsible. Even other sessions copied that very same day from the same hard drive on the same computer don't have this problem. Further, I have copied the problem session from the original hard drive to other hard drives, and burned them (Toast 8 Titanium) on G5s, G4s, etc. and still the same problem: prohibited / no smoking / you're screwed.

gphaze, I have done as you asked. Terminal output follows:

system2:~ system2$ ls -alo /Volumes/Session\ 1-MT\ Master/
total 68832
drwxr-xr-x 11 system2 system2 - 374 Jun 12 19:57 .
drwxrwxrwt 15 root admin - 510 Jun 12 20:06 ..
-rwxr-xr-x 1 system2 system2 - 6148 Jun 12 19:57 .DS_Store
-rwxr-xr-x 1 system2 system2 - 86 Jun 12 19:58 AUTORUN.INF
drwxr-xr-x 701 system2 system2 - 23834 Jun 12 19:57 Audio Files
-rwxr-xr-x 1 system2 system2 - 1024 Nov 15 2007 Desktop DB
-rwxr-xr-x 1 system2 system2 - 2 Nov 15 2007 Desktop DF
drwxr-xr-x 726 system2 system2 - 24684 Jun 11 15:28 Fade Files
-rwxr-xr-x 1 system2 system2 - 2822892 Jun 11 14:39 Session 1-MT Master.ptf
-rwxr-xr-x 1 system2 system2 - 29401017 Jun 11 15:50 WaveCache.wfm

If you hit Apple-I (disc info) I have checked "Ignore ownership on this volume"

If anyone has a real solution to this problem, I will be deeply in your debt. Thanks!

Hate to say this, bcs I'm a real fan of Apple, but I think the actual solution is that they need to be spanked good and hard in the court of public opinion so that they take ownership of and FIX this obvious problem.

You could have cut the smug snot-mouth attitude with a knife when the "Genius" dismissed my problem as something peculiar to, I guess, a mysterious force field around my computers and not something that Apple should take seriously...

And in other, related news, both of my Macs now will not burn or even accept the TDK -R CD media I have!

I've used about 2/3 of a spindle of those disks, burned on these VERY SAME MACS, which now, mysteriously, is unacceptable to them.

IMHO, some big-time stinky, stanky BS is goin' on.


gphz

Can we have a recap ? (i.e. a summary of the current situation)
1) Is this a fair statement of the problem?:
You have a DVD with files that can be read but which can't be dragged to some other place (i.e. copied) when using Finder - but they can be copied when using the 'cp' command in Terminal.
2) Does this problem occur 100% of the time (every time you try it) with a DVD currently in your possession? I.e. can you reproduce the problem upon demand?
3) What version of OS X are you using?
4) Does the problem exist on the latest version of Leopard (10.5.3) ?

Note, by the way, that Apple is unlikely to fix any problems in Tiger (or even older OSes) unless they have security implications.

OK..here are my answers, in order:

1. Yes. I was also able to get them to move by creating an Automator action.

2. Yes. Every time I try it, with multiple DVDs, and various brands OF DVD

3. Tiger; back when I had the initial issue, I think it was 10.4.9 or 10.4.10. I now have 10.4.11

4. I can't answer that as I do not have Leopard.

As for your last statement, you are correct. However, when I first had this issue, Leopard was nothing more than a codeword for an unreleased OS. Tiger at that time was Apple's shipping OS, and they seemed not to be too concerned.

It would be the lack of concern and sense of urgency over a problem like this which I'd think could use some bolstering on their part.

They're *always* going to be able to say "Wait for the next OS" which seems to be a common practice with software: "It'll get fixed next version!"

Perhaps we need to make it clear to them that "fix the problem" is what we need and want; not to be hit up for more money for a promise of a fix.

gphz

Rare problems (ones that only affect a few people - or at least are only reported by a few people) are unlikely to get fixed. There are always 10 times as many bugs as the development team has time to fix.

If anyone can reproduce this problem on Leopard, there would be a better chance of being able to track down what the cause is - since Leopard provides (if you install the Developers tools) more powerful system tracing facilities.

I just wanted to add that I'm running 10.5.3 and also having problems with select discs. Some allow me to copy my saved data and some only allow it if I open each file separately and save it as a new file. I can't choose "Ignore ownership on this volume" as it is grayed out.

It is a HUGE pain in the bum and I, too, would love a resolution if anyone ever figures one out.

Can't drag files from some DVD's - additional findings
 

I first ran into this problem in the past few days, and wanted to add my observations to help clarify this problem. As described previously, some burned DVDs will not allow their files to be transferred to any other drive or even the desktop, giving the 0 with slash sign on attempted transfer rather than a + sign.

This occurred on my iMac G5 running 10.4.11. The affected disk also could not be read by my 3 other Macs (a 17” Intel iMac running 10.4.11, a 12 inch aluminum powerbook G4 running 10.4.11, and a new Intel ibook running 10.5.4.)

The DVDs were TDK brand DVD-R disks, which I had been using for quite some time with no problem. My usual method of burning DVDs is to create a disk image in Disk Utility and burn that. I have done that many times with no problem. These problem DVDs were burned by my daughter using the finder to create a burn folder or by directly dragging the files into the disk, then burning with the Finder.

What we discovered was that once the DVD was burned and turned out to be faulty, i.e., files could not be transferred, that DVD could be read by any Mac but no files could be transferred on any Mac. However, we were able to transfer the files onto a Windows computer.

Additionally, we found that once a faulty disk was inserted and mounted into any of the Mac’s, other external drives connected to the Mac also could not transfer files to the desktop (or anywhere else.). Also, on the older operating systems (10.4.11), any subsequent DVDs inserted into the drive could not be read, even though they were fine just previously.

What we found additionally was that in order to correct this situation, the finder needed to be re-launched. Once the finder was relaunched, the previously ok DVDs worked ok again, and the system was operational until the faulty disk was re-inserted, at which time nothing worked again (until the finder was relaunched).

On the newer operating system, APL has made some improvement because, although the system still creates bad disks, only the bad disk can’t be read. OK disks inserted following this still work ok.

Over the course of a couple of days we burned about 20 disks all from the same batch as mentioned above. Many of the disks burned with Finder (using a burn folder or dragging items directly onto the disk) were defective. None of the disks burned with Disk Utility using a disk image were bad.

Our conclusions are that first, the Media is not the problem, otherwise some of the disks burned with Disk Utility would have been affected. Additionally, as the disks are readable by a Windows machine this is also an indication that the disks are ok. Secondly, the problem does not seem related to hardware, as it is unlikely all 4 computers would develop the same problem at the same time. Third, the defective disks were all burned with the finder, and after burning the finder needs to be re-launched to get the computer working correctly again. Therefore there appears to us to be a defect in the Finder operation causing this problem.

I hope this helps someone (maybe one of the Apple Geniuses) clarify this problem. :rolleyes:

I see that it has been over a year since anyone has posted here and maybe someone has discovered a fix for this issue, which I sure do hope is the case.

We are seeing this pop up now on a few machines, here is what I am seeing happen.

I have a user that burns a folder full of Ads (folder contains tha Ad file (Indesign) as well as subfolders containing the data for the ad file (artwork, eps files) using finder (PPC G5 running 10.4.11). On one of our machines (Intel G5 running the same OS) she can open the ad off the DVD without issue but is unable to copy said data from the disc to the harddrive. The user who burned the DVD (tried the brand starting with T as well as memorex and verbatim) is able to open the ad but all the artwork shows as missing, we can re-place the artwork from the DVD and then it's fine, but again she is not able to copy from the disc to the HDD. To get the functionality of Finder to return to allow copying to/from any share (disc, smb, afp) we need to either restart the machine or force quit and restart Finder.

I've put the DVD into my admin Mac here in the office (Intel iMac running 10.4.11) I get the same exact "no smoking sign", though the functionality of Finder doesn't stop me from copying to/from any other share.

I used the cp command listed earlier in this post and it successfully copies everything from the DVD without issue, the ad is able to be opened and the artwork appears to be there as it should.

My users are not knowledgeable enough to utilize the Terminal to run commands, when I told the user that I could copy from the Command Line I got the response of "What's the Command Line" so you can see what I'm dealing with here.

My question is this, has this issue been corrected, has anyone been able to find a fix to get Finder to stop puking on burned DVD's?

FYI... All three DVD's I had her burn yesterday whether it be through Toast or Finder all show the same issues with not being able to copy from the DVD to the HDD, this is turning into a major time suck and I have way more important things that need to be accomplished this week that went quite neglected yesterday trying to figure this out.

If anyone has any other ideas of what can be tried/attempted to get this issue resolved would be greatly appreciated.

PS. I have tried this on our Leopard machines and am seeing the same thing, so Apple can't tell me it's the media (works fine on a winbox, also cp command via terminal works without issue) or the OS. This just started popping up after an update to the newest security patch for November so I have not rolled this out to anymore machines until I can verify that it is not the culprit.

And my final two cents...

Geniuses my ass! How is this acceptable!

IMHO, the function of the genius is to make ppl think apple is great in all things, and to shoo ppl away if their tech issue is at all even remotely dismissable by some whack citing of something like: "we don't support (brand-X) DVD media."

frankly, I think a good class-action suit is needed to mature them away from that malarkey.

they certainly have the dough, and the technical ability to both solve and take responsibility for these technical issues BEFORE they burn lots of their customers who help provide them with that dough.

a

I have found a solution to this--at least as experienced on my computers
 

Well, I think that I may have, well, not discovered a fix, but found a way to avoid repeating the problem.

I came here after experiencing the same problem, went through the entire 5 forum pages, and your detailed recap, hockeyshaun, convinced me that my problem was indeed the same as described by everyone here. Here are the steps that I went through, trying to identify its cause. I describe them to demonstrate that this is indeed a finder problem, not a media problem!

Several months ago, I started making losslessly compressed digital copies of my (huge) classical music collection with XLD, mostly as flac. The files are saved on an external USB hard drive, but I also systematically copy them to DVD as a backup strategy (hard drives sometimes die or get erased). Last week, I needed to copy back a specific CD to my Mac and the backup DVD was close at hand, so I picked it up and... experienced my first "cannot drag & drop back to computer from DVD that has been burned with same computer" event. This was on an Intel Mac Mini (march 2009) running on 10.5.8. Instantly I went to check the DVD on my vintage PowerPC iMac running 10.4.11--and got the same result. I tried other DVDs and encountered the same problem for all DVDs checked on the iMac, i.e. even those for which 'drag & drop' proved to work just fine on the Mini running 10.5.

Then I hooked up my USB hard drive to my iMac--and that's when panick really kicked in, for I could not drag & drop files from the hard drive to the iMac either !! I was able to drag & drop from the HD to the Mini, but what good is a backup copy that can only be read by the unique computer that created it ?? (I do not have access to a Windows machine). What if my computer gets stolen ?

Needless to say, I tried many things. I discovered, for instance, that I could double-click on the XLD cue file located on the DVD (or on the external HD) and specify a save location on the computer, and XLD would nicely open up the file located on the external disk and decompress it and save it on the computer. So all was not lost and I relaxed a bit. But I was not about to save each individual CD from each DVD onto my computer with XLD one at a time !

That's when I started searching the web and found this forum. I read here that other users had also been able to open 'rogue' files with various applications even though they could not drag and drop them. And I found that users did not think it could be a media problem... well, this was obvious to me already, because it happened with my external hard drive too! But the most important info I found here was this:

and this:

This sure points to a finder problem, doesn't it ? First, I was extremely happy to discover that by restarting my iMac, I was again able to 'drag & drop' to computer any file or bunch of files that sat on external HD or DVDs, so long as the DVD was initially checked to be ok on the Mini--i.e., once restarted, the iMac running 10.4.11 could again drag & drop from DVDs that were not corrupt/rogue DVDs on the Mini. I rechecked and confirmed several times that if I picked a rogue DVD that behaved badly on the Mini, it behaved badly on the iMac (10.4.11) too and I then had to restart the iMac or its finder to recuperate the drag & drop functionality on any other DVD or external HD afterwards. That was happening exclusively on 10.4.11; inserting a rogue DVD into 10.5.8 did not corrupt Finder in that manner.

Now that I was reassured that my data was recuperable, I set out to systematically check all my music DVDs, the idea being that I would make new copies of the rogue ones. After checking 25 DVDs and finding 4 rogue ones, I set out to make new copies of these from the backup copy saved on the external USB HD. I reburned the first rogue... and lo and behold, I experienced exactly the same problem ! The new DVD holding the same data refused to drag & drop, exactly as the first copy I'd burned ! I tried again, switching media brand (I use Sony and Verbatim), to no avail-- again, a THIRD copy of the same data behaved the same way, 'no smoking' sign and all.

So I hooked up my external HD to the iMac, thinking it may be my Mini DVD burner. Mind you, I have already burned many other DVDs on this drive since the rogue ones, and the recent ones proved impeccable, but the Mini superdrive has indeed behaved strangely on occasion in the past, so... I copied the entire DVD content of rogue DVD#1 from USB drive to iMac, which took forever (the vintage iMac only has USB1.1). I then burned it again on the iMac superdrive and... guess what ?

I had to restart the iMac, after it refused to drag & drop from the third additional copy of rogue DVD#1.

All this time I'm burning with Toast 8 set to burn data for both mac & pc -- no, I did not try to burn another copy using another method. By then I was thinking it's the data. So I burned a new copy of a second rogue DVD instead (remember I'd found 4), that contained 100% different data from rogue DVD#1. And got a fresh new copy of rogue DVD#2, that behaved exactly as old rogue DVD#2 and old rogue DVD#1, and as the 3 new rogue DVD#1.

A Finder problem that is specific to certain DVDs and is completely repeatable on these DVDs??? What have they got in common that others do not have ? I opened my Compressed Music file on my external hard drive, and carefully checked the 25 already-verified DVDs. For size for instance: some were full to the brim (4.38 Go), others not. I went through the list and highlighted the rogue ones --and then I noticed something.

Most of these DVDs are named in a boring systematic way: Classical Compressed CDs1, Classical Compressed CDs2 etc. But occasionally, I add information to that name about the content of the DVD. For instance, one rogue DVD was named 'CDs classiques compresses 5 Quatuors, trios, musique de chambre' (that's French). Another was 'CDs classiques compresses 15 Bach Cantates Gardiner Vol 3, 14, 17, 21, 25, 26, 27'. It turned out that all 4 rogues had these very long names. Could that be the problem ? I looked at the names of the 25 checked DVDs and counted the number of characters (including spaces) of any name that was longer that the basic 'CDs classiques compresses nn'. Some were 36, 39, or 45 characters long. One was even 59 and worked fine. The four rogues had the longest names; they were 63, 63, 81 and 68 characters long, respectively. It seemed that names with 63 characters or more have problems.

To test my hypothesis, I went down a list of the names of nearly 100 DVDs that I've burned since getting the Mini and not yet checked with drag & drop. I singled out all the DVDs with names longuer than 50 characters and gave them the drag & drop test. And it turned out that DVDs with names that are 59 characters long or shorter all passed the drag & drop test; ALL DVDs with names 63 characters and longer failed the test. I do not have DVDs with names of 60, 61 or 62 characters, so if the exact frontier matters to you, go ahead and test these lengths. I have not yet tested every single DVD with a name shorter that 59 characters. I sampled, concentrating on the longer names. All the sampled ones passed the test. But I tested all my DVDs with names longer than 62 and they ALL failed the drag & drop test.

Final test to confirm diagnostic: I burned a new copy of rogue DVD#1 and a new copy of rogue DVD#2 (the ones that were rogues even after I made new copies), AFTER CHANGING A SINGLE THING FOR EACH: I changed the name of the uppermost file that contains all the CD files--the name that ends up being the name of the burned DVD. I changed it to a 54-character name, e.g. rogue DVD#1 became 'CDs classiques compresses 5 Trios Quatuors Quintettes'. And it worked, for rogue DVD#1, for rogue DVD#2, and for all the other rogue 63-plus-character-long-named DVDs that I have found the time to re-burn since then.

So yes, officially, OS X allows one to use very long file names -- up to 255 according to David Pogue -- but not for CD or DVD names !! And let me specify that this limit only applies to the name of the uppermost file, the one that will give its name to the DVD; I have dozens of files with extremely long (100+) file names INSIDE these uppermost files, and they behave just fine with drag & drop from DVD to computer, so long as the DVD name itself is short enough. In fact, in his Mac OS X Leopard Missing Manual, Pogue writes that some applications (especially older carbonized ones) still refuse to read files with names longer that 31 characters. Have you noticed that very long names of files (eg Word files) received from windows users are truncated in Finder ? Funny too that the limit I found was almost exactly double that 31-character limit. I'm willing to bet that 2x31=62 characters would pass the drag & drop test... but haven't tried; I confirm that 63 does not. Why that number ? I have no idea whatsoever.

But maybe the 'Drag & drop' part of the Finder has been 'dragged over' from the days of OS9 ? Maybe it is a carbon application, not cocoa ? Or maybe this has something to do with the need that the DVDs must be accessible from windows as well as mac ? This is for experts to find out. But...

But... IT IS MOST DEFINITELY A FINDER PROBLEM. If people from Apple read this, take note! The fact that files can be copied from these DVDs using terminal (i.e. by avoiding using the Finder!) should be proof enough of this!

And from now on, I will stick to names shorter than 60 characters for files that I want to burn. I suggest you do the same.

I cannot promise that this will solve YOUR problem, but it solved mine: Stick to short names for your DVDs. I can burn DVDs with names as long as 59 characters without any problem. So have a look at the names of those rogue DVDs of yours and let's see what you find.

Good luck to you all, and Happy New Year !!

Melodie, all I can say is wow. Intriguing discovery.