Do I Need a Surge Protector?
 

Do i need a surge protector for a iMac, Amplifier, Shredder, Fan and sometimes a external drive or two pluged into a extension block under my desk? I'm in the UK. I'm not loking for something to stop big surges that would make things explode, i'm looking for something that can stop surges that are small enough to be un-detectable to the eye, but does damage to the lifetime of electrical goods.

If so, what kind is advised? I'd like to spend as little as possible. I don't care about stopping big surges that make things explode etc as the insurance covers that, and i keep a backup of my data.

I would perfer something that you plug into the wall, and plug the plug into it, like this, as i don't want a extension as A) I've already got one, and B) i dont want to speng ages crawling around under my desk replacing one (there's a lot of cables under my desk).

Yes, you need at least a surge protector (although I'd actually recommend a UPS).

If you're worried about cost, just get any generic surge protector. You'll need to replace it periodically (the capacitors that cheap surge protectors use can only take a limited number of surges before they need to be replaced), but it should work just fine. Most surge protectors have lights on them. When they are new, the lights are steady. As they age, the lights will flicker. When the light is almost out (or even earlier), buy a new one--that one is dead. (Meaning, it is no longer providing any protection--it still passes current.)

If you would like to protect your equipment better than a cheap surge protector can, buy a UPS--an uninterruptable power supply.

Trevor

There's also a line conditioner, which is halfway between a surge protector and a UPS. It's better than a surge protector because it also filters electricity for various types of electrical noise and irregularities. But unlike a UPS, it has no battery so it can't keep equipment running during a power outage.

If you're doing this on the cheap you could get a line conditioner like the type sold for home theaters. It would probably still be a step above a surge protector.

Considering the low cost of UPSes these days I would recommend nothing less. Surge protectors really don't do much but offer a little bit of protection. UPS units will offer protection against dirty power, surges, spikes, brown outs, sacs, etc. UPS units also work as line conditioners (well most do anyways).

From my understanding the belkin UPSes will work natively with OS X's built in power management software. So all you gotta do is plug it in via usb cable and configure it via system preferences.

Even the cheapest level of UPS offers way more protection over a surge protector.

What damage can a power cut do to a Mac? I'm not really fussed about power cuts if they don't do any damage.

any kind of power flux can blow away hardware. Any type of heat or voltage flux can blow out MOSfets on your main logic board, or another embedded chipset. Your power supply is also subject to failure. Or it could do nothing. We had a power outage last week because of the storms and one of the users across our office mac crashed, and it totally hosed the OS completely. I was able to resurrect the OS with out having to reimage, but luckily for us, we have a huge backbone of UPS units. The ones that weight like 500lbs each.

Like I said earlier since UPS units are so cheap these days, I think its a nominal fee for piece of mind to have that much better protection.

The main problem is if the system happens to be writing to the disk at the time of the power failure, which corrupts the file system. Another problem is the stress on the various components, which is very hard to identify and usually winds up as a "my computer is acting strange" kind of thing.

So i'll maybe get a UPS then. I want to spend as litle money as is necesary on this, and i don't want anything bulky, so what's advised?

Hehe, this is the second post that I've started that has become a riddle, the 1st being Keeping Cool.

I just had an idea, it probably has been thought of already, but why don't manufacturers place a surge protector into the computer?

Because surge protectors wear out quickly and need to be replaced in a time period much shorter than the time period that a computer should remain usable.

Trevor

Because that is rarely what happens. If you simply threw a switch and cleanly cut the power the Mac wouldn't be electrically damaged. But as Red Menace stated, you run the risk of hosing your system.
The problem is that when the power goes out it is almost always accompanied by static, stray current, surges, spikes, brown-outs, out of phase cycles, etc. That is what fries your logic board. I know you don't want to spend a lot of money, but that is what will happen if you don't get a line conditioner or UPS!
Nothing needed for the shredder or fan.

Yes, I would say that my reasons for buying a UPS were 40% for its backup battery and 60% for its ability to provide clean, stable, filtered power to my Mac Pro.

Definitely no need to have a surge protector for a shredder or fan. You only want/need to protect the expensive equipment.

I try to keep motors (shredder) and other weird devices (electric stapler) as far away electrically from the computer as possible. They can create electrical noise. DEFINATELY not fed from the same power strip.

How much damage can this do to the Mac anyway? Does it chop x number of years off its lifetime or does it make it go haywire?

I know that that type of surges are probable frequent in my house, as we have a fridge, electric shower, kettle amongst other power-hungry things.

How much dose a surge protector that stops the 'invisible' surges cost. When i say 'invisible' I'm just talking about the ones that fry your computer without your knowledge, but damage it, not the big ones that make your computer explode, the insurance covers that.

EDIT: What does that do? how big does the motor have to be to make electrical noise? i have a fan and shredder (sometimes a vacuum cleaner) plugged into the same strip, how far away do you suggest i move them? Do i just plug them in different outlets from the Mac or do they need something else?

Well I would get a UPS for a start. We had a tech friend setup a test on our house and we found a lot of spikes in the readout so we bought a UPS for $150 (Australian) . There are a lot of threads here and in other forums along the lines of " My mac won't start up and think the PSU has died " or something similar. Bad power supply to your computer does quite a bit of damage over the years and is one of the main causes of PSUs dying. My UPS cost me $150 but a PSU for my MDD is more than that. I also have a lot more gear plugged into it so the bad power could in theory be damaging the delicate components in my other stuff as well. I think the cost of a UPS to supply is money well spent. I would also check up on your insurance policy as well to make sure your computer is covered against faulty power or spikes etc. Mine wasn't until I listed it separately in my household contents policy.
Stewie

Would the power supply in a 17' Intel iMac 1.83 GHz filter out power surges, or would it just let them through? How much does it cost to replace the power supply in it anyway?

Also, i only want to protect the Mac from the 'invisible' surges, not everything on my desk, and i'd rather spend as little as is needed protecting it from the 'invisible' surges, i don't care about extra bells and whistles, as my budget is very limited, please don't tell me about anything over £100 because that's all that i've got at the moment:(. (i do save money in the bank, i'll save in it's hundreds, but then i go any blow it all on something:rolleyes:)

£62 ($150) seems like a reasonable price, but i'd be happy to go lower:)

I bought a surge protector today I love it it has phone line jack and what ever reg 30 some what the guy let it go for 20.00 anyhow not sure how to hook DSL and phone to it.

Both the OP and I are in the UK. I think I've had 1 power cut in the last 20 years, and I did once live a house where the lights went 'bzzzz' every now and then, but I suspect that was due to the house, not the mains.

Does anyone have any statistics on power surges within the national grid?

A quick google revealed nothing much, although apparently no-one has successfully received compensation for receiving poor quality electricity in the UK for the last 20 years. You can get £100 if a power cut lasts longer than 18 hours.

What about this surge protector, it looks like a good spec/price to me.

Here is it's manufacturers page.

What do you think about the surge protector i mentioned above?

I actually have a similar 'concealed' Belkin surge protector to the one you mentioned connected to my UPS. It's fine, just make sure that you replace it before the little light on it's side goes out. This is true of any cheap surge protector.

Trevor

If i did get the one i mentioned earlier, would it be ok if i plugged my fan & shredder into it as well as the iMac, or is it advised to keep them on a different strip.

I would keep them on a different strip which is plugged into a different electrical circuit altogether.

Trevor

Could you define what you mean by "different circuit"? Do you mean on a different strip plugged into a different socket, or different room, or different floor, or different building, or different country or...

An easy way to think of a single 'circuit' (at least the way I'm using the term) is to look at your circuit breakers (or your fuse box if that's what you have). All the outlets served by one circuit breaker (or fuse) is known as one circuit.

How many circuits are served by one circuit breaker is variable. Some times two outlets side by side are served by different circuit breakers, sometimes you have to go to a different floor to find a different circuit.

Trevor

The Fan and shredder have to be in the same room as the iMac, and there are only 2 outlets in the room (one double socket, one single). Doing what you said seems like it would be a hassle, our house is quite old (about 100 years), if that makes any difference in how many breakers there are.

What damage do these things do anyway? If they make small surges, then would a surge protector stop them getting to a iMac if both are on the same strip? The fan is a 50Hz, 45W and the shredder is 50Hz, 1.0A

I never knew the cause of the flickering on mine; thought the light itself was crapping out -- now I'll run out and buy a new one. Thanks, Trevor.

Definitely listen to cpragman. Generally, don't put computers that store data on the same circuit as machines that have (relatively big) brush motors such as vacuums cleaners, fans, shredders, hair dryers etc. The brush motors cause a lot of noise on the entire circuit. Simply moving to another outlet is not enough - you must ensure that you are on another circuit breaker.

A possible remedy - Lighting and plug-in outlets are usually on different circuits. Though, it's best to check with a licensed electrician. So, one fix could be to have an outlet installed on the same circuit as your lighting. Plug your "dirty" or noisy appliances such as your fan, shredder, vacuum into this "lighting" outlet. I suggest setting this outlet at counter height to indicate that it is not associated with the same circuit as the other outlets. Again, there are many configurations for wiring and wiring done wrong - so check with a licensed electrician and explain your needs.

Disclaimer: I am a Computer Manufacturing Engineer / not an electrician.

I think this is a bit draconian for Macs which in my 20 years experience have very good power supplies that ignore most of the spiking caused by universal motors (eg Vacuum Cleaners and Shredders). Perhaps I'm just lucky, but I've never had a problem caused by a power glitch.

Well the iMac, shredder and fan have to be in the same room, and there is only 1 fuse for the entire floor, and getting a socket fitted on the lighting circuit isn't exactly possible. There is 1 other floor in this house, but i couldn't move the room's contents there because:
A)No room
B)there is carpet, so a vacuum cleaner would have to be run(alongside the fridge and electric shower that are already there) hence making moving pointless anyway.

Of course, you're welcome to use any set up that you want, but my advice is that if you can't put the shredder and fan on a separate circuit, I'd at least advise that you use a UPS (rather than just a surge protector). This is the same thing I recommended way back in post #2 of this thread.

Trevor

I'm slightly confused, if the fan & friends make small surges/electrical noise, wouldn't a surge protector cancel out those surges/noise, if yes, then wouldn't plugging them into a different outlet (as opposed to on the surge protector) do the job?

A different outlet will do the job if it's on a different circuit. Otherwise, it's all connected behind the scenes, so there's for all intents and purposes no isolation between different outlets.

A surge protector should help with small surges, but I don't think it does anything for noise. A good* UPS should isolate the source voltage from the output voltage by connecting the output voltage to the battery.

*I think that some cheap UPSs may not do this, actually, and the battery only gets involved when there is a power outage.

Which is why a different circuit is best for isolating known sources of noise on the electrical lines internal to your house, but if there's no way to do that, a UPS might be an adequate workaround. And a UPS has other advantages too, such as protection from powerouts.

Trevor

What damage does this noise do anyway?

That's a matter of debate. Possibly nothing, possibly a lot. It depends at least partly on how good the power supply that you have is at dealing with noise. Some computers live in a noisy environment and may never have a problem. Others crash every time someone turns on a hairdryer.

Trevor

Do the ones that crash every time someone turns on a hairdryer happen to run Windows :D

i think i'll just risk it and use the surge protector i mentioned earlier.