Trying to help a friend with an iBook G4
 

Hey Guys,

I really hope this is an easy question for you guys and in advance I thank you for your help. I was instructed that this is the best help I can find. Here's my situation:

I don't know anything about Apple (although I want to learn) and a friend asked me if I can help him. I can't say 'no' to a friend so I said I'd try. He has a iBook G4 that when it turns on, I hear a clicking noise, I assume it's the HD, and on the screen I get a icon of a folder with a smiley face on it and it alternates back with a "?" mark. He gave me three cd's to see if I can use them.

One is a black "Mac OS X Tiger - Includes Xcode 2 Install DVD" Version 10.4
and the other two seem to be a set: "iMac G5 Mac OS X Install Disc 1" and "Disc 2"

He doesn't know if these are the ones that came with this iBook. Like I said, I really want to help him but am stuck here. Can you guys point me in the right direction. I'm pretty computer savy ( I think anyway) just not with apples.

Thanks in advance once again for your time.

Does the iBook G4 have a DVD drive, or just a CD drive? Most of the ones not sold exclusively to schools have a drive that reads DVDs, if I remember correctly.

Assuming you have a DVD drive, then use the black OS X Tiger disc.

In no case will the iMac G5 discs be of any value. They are for a different computer.

Was OS X installed on this computer before? I'm wondering if it was not, since the smiley face that alternates with the question mark is the boot symbol for OS 9, not OS X. It appears that the computer is attempting to boot OS 9 and failing.

If there was never OS X installed on this computer, then just boot to the OS X Install disc and select the hard drive to install OS X on.

If there was a previous OS X installation, then choose a Custom Install, and select "Archive and Install", making sure that the box is checked to preserve users and settings. This will install a fresh operating system without hurting any users or applications previously installed.

Trevor

trevor nails it, but a clicking hard drive is muy bad thing... The G4 iBook is not a bad machine, if it has enough ram it might be worth it to put a new hard drive in it, if it comes down to it. Best of luck with it!

Excellent point Sherman. A clicking hard drive is a very likely indicator of imminent hard drive failure. You may very well need to replace the hard drive (or pay someone to replace the hard drive).

Trevor

Thanks Trevor and Sherman... you guys ROCK!

To be honest, I don't know what version of OS this iBook has installed. I do know that there is some data on the HD that he'd like salvaged, if possible... but it's not critical. And yes, I tried to boot off the "Mac OS X Tiger" DVD and it did recognize it... but don't know what to do next. Can you guys guide me?

Also, regarding the "clicking" noise the HD is making... even if I get it to work... should I still be looking into replacing it? Thanks!

Oh yeah, and another thing. I've been reading info that talk about "zapping the PRAM" and "resetting the PRU ( I think )".... what is this and can it help me? Gracias!!

If this is the case Sherman and I have to get a new drive... is there a way to salvage the data off this HD and transfer it to the new one?

Directions for zapping the PRAM and resetting the PMU can be found here. However, it doesn't sound like those steps will be of any value to you right at the moment. On the other hand, they won't hurt.

After you install the new hard drive, those steps might be useful.

Trevor

Just boot to the disk, go past the EULA, select the hard drive to install to (assuming that you have a working hard drive--if you don't this will give you no choices), select Custom Install, at the menu that comes down giving you different custom install choices, select "Archive and Install". By default a box will be checked to preserve users and settings, leave that checked. Then let the install take place.

Yes. If it is indeed the hard drive that is clicking, replace it.

A possible way of retrieving the information on a mostly-dead hard drive is to use Data Rescue II: http://www.prosofteng.com/products/data_rescue_info.php

Trevor

Hey Trevor, if you don't mind me schooling me a bit... what's the point of zapping the PRAM and resetting the PMU. What are those even? Thanks!

Hey Trevor, tell me I'm doing this wrong and that's why I'm not seeing this (although I think that's not the case)... I turned on the PC and I see the smiley face with the alternating question mark, so I put the "Mac OS X Tiger" DVD in ( I didn't reboot at that point, should I have to boot correctly, or was the way I did fine?)

Anyhow, I pass the point where I have to agree and when it asks to select a destination volume to install the Mac OS X, I don't see anything.

Is that indicative of the fact that indeed the HDD is not working... and basically I'm screwed? Just give it to me straight man! :-)

If so, can you tell me what model HD I need to get my friend and how or where I can read a guide on how to install it? Like I said, I have computer experience, so I feel I can handle HD replace, just never with a Mac.

Thanks man again for all your help!

There are several variables, such as the system clock and the preferred screen size that are held in PRAM--parameter RAM. There are several other variables, such as the boot volume, that are held as Open Firmware variables.

Zapping the PRAM and resetting Open Firmware set those variables to defaults. It's not something that you need to do as a regular maintenance step, but if you are having some odd problems, then those steps sometimes clear them up.

For example, let's say you install a new hard drive, and the hard drive is not being recognized properly. Perhaps the Open Firmware variable that holds what volume to boot from is corrupted in some way, and keeps trying to point at the old hard drive which is no longer connected to the computer. Resetting Open Firmware at that point can clear out the old corrupted boot-device variable and replace it with a default value, which will be changed to point at the right spot on your new hard drive after it is properly recognized.

Thus, I doubt that zapping the PRAM and Resetting Open Firmware are going to help you now, but they might be of use after you replace the hard drive.

Trevor

Great, thank you for that explanation. Now, any suggestions or thoughts on my post right below that. Thanks!

It indicates that your hard drive is not working normally. Add that to the clicking sounds and it doesn't look very good for your hard drive. But there are a few things that we can try to see if we can get it working normally again, at least temporarily, before we give up and you get a new hard drive.

First, if you look in the pulldown menus of your Installer, one of them will show 'Disk Utility'. Launch Disk Utility. Does DU see your hard drive? If so, try to "Repair Disk" (different than Repair Disk Permissions). Once you've repaired the disk, can you see it in the Installer? (to go back to the Installer, just quit Disk Utility.)

If you aren't given the option to Repair Disk even though you've selected your hard drive, or worst of all if DU doesn't even see the hard drive at all, then it's time to give up on the hard drive and just get a new one.

If Repair Disk doesn't fix the problem, even after doing it several times, another thing you can try is to Erase the Disk. Go to the Erase tab, select the hard drive, and format it as "Mac OS Extended" (which is actually called HFS+). Once formatted, you may be able to install OS X on it.

You need an ATA (sometimes called PATA) hard drive. It needs to be a 2.5" drive (that's notebook computer-sized), 9.5mm tall (which is the most common height by far these days). These should be really easy attributes to find. The majority of 2.5" drives are still ATA, although SATA drives are quickly growing in popularity.

Guides to taking apart an iBook G4:
12": http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/83.0.0.html
14": http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/84.0.0.html
http://safari.oreilly.com/0321335465/ch31
http://repair4laptop.org/disassembly_apple.html
http://www.macmod.com/content/view/247/193/

And a bonus one, in French:
http://aberco.free.fr/ibook/demontage1.html

Trevor

The way to get into Disk Utility is only after I've booted off the DVD right? If that's the case, yeah I did that, found that menu option and off to the left, I only see two listings. One appears to be the CD-RW drive and the other lists the DVD that's inside... Mac OS X

Does that sound right?

PS. My friend said that when this happened it the past, someone reset it for him. Not sure what he meant

Also, what's this thing it asks everytime I want to quit installer. "If you need to quit, click Startup Disk to select a startup disk for your computer."

In the same pulldown menu as Disk Utility, there's another choice: Startup Disk. You can use that to select a different drive, if only you had another bootable volume. Since you don't, you can ignore that.

Trevor

That sounds like no hard drive is recognized.

Well, try to Zap the PRAM and reset Open Firmware. I gave the instructional link in post #8. As I said, I'm dubious that it will help, but since it won't hurt, and since your friend said that someone reset it for him in the past, try these 'reset' steps.

Trevor

Thank you. So, since I booted off the DVD and went to the disk utility menu and the only thing it lists is what I mentioned... I'm done with right?

If so, and I get a new drive, how to I try and recover this data?

A hard drive that isn't even recognized by the computer is not something that you can recover the data from yourself. Talk to a data recovery company like DriveSavers http://www.drivesavers.com/ but they will be very expensive.

Trevor

Wow... so the HDD is dea. Well, I gotta move on. Thanks for all your help man!

I hope this does not confuse the issue.

I had an issue where my G5 on boot only showed me the No system icon.

'Disk utility' from the install DVD could not see the HD.
I could boot up from a external System, but the HD did not show up on the desktop.
I also noticed that the drive was making a clicking sound. One click a second. (It seemed like the drive was trying to be read but was on an extreme go slow)

'Disk Warrior', did see the drive, but came back telling me because there was an error with the HD, speed would be impaired.

Again I could hear 1 click a second. So I left DW doing its thing for the day.

When I came back DW had completed and I replaced the Directory.
Tried to Boot back into the HD. still no go.
But I was able to Target Disk the G5 HD onto my PB.

From the PB I used the Instal DVD to do an Archive install on to the G5 HD. this worked.

I then was able to boot up the G5 with no issue.

I do not no what caused this in the first place, and maybe the HD is faulty. I have had this issue twice in two years.

If you can get your hands on a DW, then that may work as it did for me.

Hey Mark,

Thanks for that post on my issue with my friend's iBook G4.

However, would you mind being just a little bit more specific as to what I'm to do? I have PC experience and am sure I can figure this out, but I've never worked or used a Mac. But I'd really like to try and see if I can help out my friend. Thanks again.

did you not get my reply to your private message?

..

**weird, I can not see the reply in my sent items???

Disk utility
The Disk utility that comes with the Mac is limited in what it can do.
There are other third party Disk Utilities that can reach parts that the Mac Disk utility can not.
One of them is Disk Warrior (DW) This does cost money to buy($99).
see here for more details


FireWire target disk mode.
FireWire target disk mode allows a Macintosh computer with a FireWire port (the target computer) to be used as an external hard disk connected to another computer (the host).

see here for instructions

Archive and Install

Archive and Install installation automatically moves existing system files to a folder named Previous System, then installs Mac OS X again.
It also preserves the Users folder and some other folders. Which means you do not lose everything.
see here for instructions

1,If you have a friend who has DiskWarrrior, and they are happy for you to use it then do so. If it can see the HD and repair it, then let it do so.

2,If you are able to use DW and it works, then Follow the instructions for the FireWire target disk mode.

The reason I did FireWire target disk mode was because although DW fixed some issues with the HD, the HD System still would not boot up.
The intention then is to mount the HD onto a second Mac as an external drive. And re-install OS X using the Archive install option.

If you can not do the DW part, try the FireWire target disk mode part any way. you never know.

3, Insert the Install DVD into the host Mac and run an Archive Install on the the target computer (iBook's HD, which is mounted on to the host Mac as an external HD )

If you do not have a second Mac, then You can try to boot up from the Install DVD, and see if it sees the HD (Again depending on if you can do the DW part and if it works)


Being able to do the above depends on you:

Getting hold of DW or a Disk Utility similar.
Having a Second Mac.
and being lucky.

You also do this at you own risk.

I went ahead and installed another HDD and once I boot off the Mac OS X dvd, when I go to the utilities menu and then the disk utility option, I do see the new drive over on the left, whereas before I wouldn't see the old drive.

But now once I run the installer, in the "select a destination" scree, no drive shows up so I can install the OS. What's going on? Thanks!

PS Also, now everytime I turn on the iBook, I hear the "chime" sound, but a static sound follows. Why is that?

I actually figured out (I think) the HD problem. I had to reformat it. Well, what I did was I went to disk utility, clicked the HD and chose the erase option. Then on that next screen I named it and selected the first option selected (I can't remember what it said exactly but the word "journaled" was within parenthesis) So I went with that and I type this, the install is running.

But, was that first option the correct one? What were the other ones in that drop down list for?

Also, the static sound after the intial chime still remains. I would think that it could've been that I didn't correctly connect the speaker wires, but if that were the case, wouldn't the chime sound break up?

Thanks!

It sounds like the choice you made was "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)". That is the best choice for a drive that you boot from. Journaling increases the reliability of boot disks, and Mac OS Extended is the best choice for a drive connected to a Mac.

Trevor

Thanks Trevor! And regarding the static sound right after the "chime" upon startup... what could that be? I even dismantled the iBook again and checked the speaker connections and everthing is fine.

As I said, the speakers work just fine; it's just that burst of static that I get once I turn it on.

Sorry, I'm not sure about that. I've never heard a burst of static at startup from pure Apple hardware, so I couldn't say what it is.

I've heard bursts of static from external USB or FireWire devices connected to speakers before, and the static is an unfortunate side effect of booting up the device firmware. But I've never heard it from an Apple device with no outside peripherals.

Trevor

Well, thank you anyway for all your help. I could not have done this without your guidance.:)