Mini won't boot after hard drive replacement
 

edited to add: this is a PPC mini by the way...

Hey folks,
I'm kind of stumped here and I could use some help before I break down and take this mini in to apple...
The original hard drive died on me (b-node and tree errors that could not be repaired) and since new drives are actually cheaper then something like SpinRight, I decided I'd just slap a new one in.

I'm a fairly adept hardware guy- in fact in 1995 I was a certified apple tech at the age of 16, but that's another story- so I felt pretty comfortable replacing the drive in the mini. I found a few sites online that pointed out the screws and I went to work. The replacement went very smoothly, at least I thought so...and everything wen back together nicely.

I plugged it in and slid in the OS X install disc and thats where my problem is. All I get is a gray screen indefinitely. I've attached the keyboard and mouse...the mouse has power b/c I can see the laser light. However, pressing anything on the mouse or keyboard doesnt have an effect. For instance, holding down C to try and force the boot from the install disk doesnt do anything, neither does holding the mouse button to eject the CD.

So, it appears to me either I've either damaged the USB subsystem or its not even getting past the OpenFirmware boot enough to recognize input. I'm guessing its the later since the mouse has power and everything else (at least power button and DVI port) on the blackplane seems to work fine.

Does anyone have any troubleshooting ideas? I'm worried that if I take it to apple that its going to cost almost as much as buying a new one...or at least it will be painful.

Thanks in advance!
-N

Since the mouse gets its power from the USB port, it's fair to guess it isn't completely fried. Have you tried booting into single user mode? You might try that--it should answer the question of whether it is getting keyboard input more or less definitively. If you can, you should try resetting the firmware and nvram, and resetting the PRAM. That's recommended in any change of hardware. You also might TRY a different keyboard, if you have one handy. If none of these allows the Mac to even respond, then I guess a trip to Apple is pretty much all you can do. It is just possible it is so busy trying to identify the new hardware that it is ignoring input from the mouse and keyboard during the boot process. If you get to it before it tries to find the new hardware, it may respond.

Joe VanZandt

Zapping the PRAM is a great idea...silly that I didn't try it first.

I'm not sure SU mode will work since there is no OS on the new hard drive and it doesnt seem to want to boot from the CD yet.

I've tried 2 keyboards and 2 mice (1 apple combo and 1 dell combo)....

Thanks for the suggestions!

Forgot to add: if I do let it sit about 5 minutes, I get a flashing system folder with a question mark ... not sure if that's relevant. Also, if I boot with out the cover on, I can see the laser in the DVD drive- so I'm fairly sure that the DVD/HD daughter board is seated correctly.

Ok... Zapping the PRAM (via the keyboard) didn't help. But, the keyboard and USB ports are working...I let it cycle four times.

Still, the other usual commands dont work... X, C, S...

Since this is a G4 Mini, and not an Intel Mini, you should also try resetting Open Firmware: (directions)

Trevor

Trevor- good tip. It didn't solve my boot problem, but it went further to confirm that the keyboard and usb ports are working properly.

From OF is there a way to view connected IDE devices to see if its seeing the drive correctly?

Hmmm, let's see. In Open Firmware, you can see the currently set boot-device with the command:
printenv boot-device

That's not exactly what you are asking for, perhaps try the

devalias

command, although my knowledge of Open Firmware is limited.

Also, maybe something like

dir hd:\

should show you the root directory of the primary hard drive. In theory. I think.

Trevor

Well, he said his hard drive isn't formatted, so I don't think it's going to show him very much at all. The question now is: why won't the CD/DVD boot. So, I have to ask the usual question: are you using the disks that came with the Mini? Macs are pretty particular about that. You either need your original disks or a full retail version of the DVD in order for Tiger to boot.

Joe VanZandt

sounds like a loose connection, those minis run a micro ata connection meaning power goes through the little adapter like on laptops......at least I think. I haven't cracked open a mini in a long long time so don't quote me on it.

I would reseat all your connections to the drive and power it on with the mini case open. Perhaps you knocked it loose when putting the top back on.

Updates from the sick patient...
The CD drive does get power- I see the laser and hear it spin up.
However if I try and issue either "eject cd" or "boot cd" in OF, I get an error about the device not being found.
I'm going to take it apart again and re-seat everything...something I had avoided b/c it means I risk breaking it more :D

I do have both the full retail version of 10.4 and the disk that came with the mini...I have 4 Mini's so I have a nice stock of em

That didn't work... same result....
I can hear the CD spinning up so if its getting power then I'm fairly sure that bus connector is seated correctly...

Have you reset the PMU/SMU?

A few times...

I put the original hard drive back in and I get the same result...blinking system folder. I'm not getting the hard drive failures that I was originally getting. Again, the CD and HD spin up, but its like the system doesnt seem them at all...

boot up holding down the opt key, and put in your OS disc in the drive. This is a firmware level boot and if it doesn't work properly you have got a problem on the hardware level.

You also mentioned having multiple Mac Minis. Try target mode booting the one that has problems and see if anything mounts that way.

Typically I do PMU/SMU resets, OF resets, then start replacing parts. Reseat all connections, including ram, and unhook any third party device.

Opt brought up the boot menu, but it didn't find any devices.
The CD and the HD both spun up so they do have power...

The disk thats in there is a mini boot disk, but I cannot eject it to try any other disks...I'd love to try my retail DVD again, just for kicks...

so you didn't get the boot option menu?

This is the new one on the intel based macs, but holding down opt at boot should give you a menu that looks like this

http://static.flickr.com/47/124152320_fc53791f9a_o.jpg

However the older one will have a reload button and a arrow button

I edited my post...yeah I got the boot menu, but it was (and remained) empty.

so basically it is not detecting your hardware on your IDE bus, otherwise the CD should show up when you have a Tiger DVD in the drive and hold down the opt key. Did you try hitting the refresh button?

At this point i would say the adapter that hooks into your IDE devices is most likely bad, since both your IDE devices probably did not fail at the same time.

Try taking the IDE riser card out of a working mac mini and see if that works, that will at least tell you what it is.

Hard drive jumper setting?
 

I don't really think this is the problem as the other disk gives the same system folder but recently ran into this on a dual proc G4.

Did you set the jumper on the hard drive to be either slave or master depending on the configuration? It might even have to be set to cable select. Not sure how it works with the Mini.

I'm not a genius and know next to nothing about Minis but hoping this might be something simple which might have been overlooked.

I am pretty sure Minis use laptop drives, so not even sure there is a jumper on there to set.

Just my 2 cents. Hope you get it working! :)

Perfectirony,
Laptop drives to in fact have jumpers, but the OEM drive I pulled out was set to PRIMARY and I made sure to the replacement drive was set the same way (no jumpers in both cases).

SpaceBass, did you ever get the hard drive on that PPC mini working? If so, what was the fix? Second question, what hard drive did you try as the replacement?

johngpt - it'd been a while, I had to rack my memory a bit :)

I came to the conclusion that the whole IDE subsystem was dead. Apple's solution was a new logic board which, as always, was about $50 less than a new intel mini.

I ended up getting a new laptop drive (not sure which, seagate maybe) and a MadDog firewire enclosure. Since it was a small drive, and firewire, it didn't need external power, AND macs can boot from firewire drives.

So I plugged the drive into another G4, installed tiger (later Leopard) and then plugged it into the dead mini...presto...still working that way today

Thank you sir. Seagate was the brand name which I'd been trying to remember. I've read elsewhere that they've been used in ppc mini's as a replacement. I like your idea of the external enclosure.