Apple Mail Scrolling in wrong direction
 

Hi. I'm still pretty new to the Mac world and for the most part I've found ways to do most everything I need but I have one little annoyance that really bugs:

In Apple mail I sort my mail so that the newest mail is on top. BUT whenever I delete a message the scrollbar moves up to the next message instead of down like every other program I've ever used. This really bugs you after a while. I guess it's the little things.....

Am I just a rookie here or is there some hack I can apply in plist file? :)

Thanks all you Mac gurus out there!

-sokol99

No replies
 

Wow, I guess I've got a pretty boring problem. I'll keep poking around someplace else then.
-me

I don't think there is anything that you can do about it, but I point out that you seem to be using the wrong terminology. Or at least I don't understand.

I think you are talking about the choice for which message gets selected when you delete the currently selected message.
It seems that Mail.app selects the next message in order of time received. Whereas you'd prefer (it seems) that it select the previous message.

The scrollbar merely indicates where you are in the list of messages. Hence my comment about using the wrong terminology. In fact as far as I can see, the issue doesn't have anything to do with the scrollbar or scrolling - it would be the same issue if there were only a few messages and hence no scrollbar was needed at all.

In anycase, as I said above, I doubt that there is anything you can do about it.

The way that it moves to the next message seems like logical behavior to me since on most occasions I delete from oldest to newest. It would be nice to be able to adjust it. You'll just have to change your deletion technique or rig something using smart mailboxes.

Yes, I found this annoying as well. Would like to have a way to do this as well.

I think we'll have to wait
 

Thank you to those who replied. Yes, not knowing the exact terminology is what makes searching for a solution more difficult. I must have missed that term in my grade school spelling class! :) At least I'm glad to see at least one other person sees it my way.

The real question here is....why would something that behaves the exact *opposite* from every other program I've ever encountered seem so normal the other users? :)

Anyway, I guess that's a feature that we'll have to wait for...kinda like *cut/paste*..... I have to wonder whether this a case of hating good ideas just because Microsoft does it that way or what.

While I've been able to get by on my Mac it seems that there's lots to be desired still in the basics while the apps seem more developed than the OS interface.

Thanks,
sokol99

It isn't clear what you consider to be the usual way - do you mean that you expected that the message that will be selected is the one that is lower down on your screen? (no matter what way the messages are ordered)
Or did you expect that the message that will be selected is the one that was received previous to the one that was deleted?

I.e. if there were 3 messages:
AAA- received at 1:00 pm, BBB - received at 1:05 pm, CCC - received at 1:10 pm

and they were displayed with the most recent at the top like this:

CCC - received at 1:10 pm
BBB - received at 1:05 pm
AAA- received at 1:00 pm

then if you select message BBB and delete it, it seems that you expected that message AAA would be selected.

But what if the messages were displayed with the most recent at the bottom:

AAA- received at 1:00 pm
BBB - received at 1:05 pm
CCC - received at 1:10 pm

and you selected message BBB and deleted it - would you then expect the selected message to be CCC ?

Yes!
 

Hi Hayne,

That was a good question. I have sorted my email with the newest on top for so long I really don't have a preference about how it acts if I where to sort with oldest on top.

So I just checked out how Outlook Express works. It works exactly as you describe for both ways of sorting.

The first variant you listed where the newest is on top is how I work.

CCC
BBB
AAA

Yes, after deleting BBB I would like AAA to be the next selected message. However, Apple Mail selects CCC next.

Unlike Outlook Express (and I assume Outlook and maybe others..) Apple Mail actually changes the direction of selection when I reverse the sort order to newest on bottom. It consistently moves to the next newest message.

I have used several different e-mail clients in the past and all have worked as expected except Apple Mail in this regard. Outlook Express, Outlook, Thunderbird, KMail, Mail, Evolution etc.

Can you think of a trick to make this work?

...did you got any solution for your problem?! It really drives me crazy...

Nope!
 

Hi Netsrac,

I never got a solution. Sorry.

What is especially shocking to me is that everyone seemed to think that Apple mail was somehow "normal". It is not. I've never seen even one other mail application that behaves that way. As such, I'm especially shocked that there's not some plist hack for it.

Please let me know if you find an answer. I'm at jch[at]hivalley.com.

Thanks.
'sokol99'

I've heard that if you delete messages in Mail while you are standing in the southern hemisphere, the direction changes. :rolleyes:

If that's not terribly convenient, you could map a key combo to your mouse so that, for example, a middle click = delete + down arrow. That would give you your desired selection/highlight behavior.

Yep, I just tested it on my MacBook Pro using my Wacom mouse. It works like a charm, doing exactly what you are trying to do, and my driver allows me to limit that behavior to just Mail. When I switch to other apps, the middle click behavior defaults back. Gotta love Wacom!

I have a standard Apple smart mouse and use USB Overdrive to program the middle button to down and the side squeeze buttons to Command-d. Squeeze- midclick does it.

Apple smart mouse? :confused: Which one is that?
Is there no way, using USB Overdrive, to narrow it down to a single button press?

Looks like a few of you have found workable solutions. That's cool. I'll go with one of those if nothing pops up soon.

I personally still wish it could be something like a plist hack to change the way the 'delete' command works. I asked Apple about it while on a call and was basically told there's no solution and they took my comments for the record....

Does Apple Mail under Leopard do the same thing? ..

ha ha, the whole 'normal' vs. 'wrong' debate is so intriguing when viewing from one side of the 'grass' vs. the 'other' side of the fence grass. I have recently upgraded from OS 8.6 and use Windows XP at work (so sloooooow; why does the hard drive work so hard upon boot?) and I understand exactly the whole feeling of normal and what you expect the programs to do. I think we need much more processing power before we really get into A.I. programs that expect what we want them to do. I've been reading about Quicksilver...

I agree; the mail program goes in a more logical direction, but is counter intuitive from what has been the 'norm'.

I'd bet that the directional behavior is dictated by the application, not by the .plist, but I could be wrong.

My Wacom testing was done under Leopard, so yes, Mail deletes and moves to the next more recent message under Leopard.

Oops -- Mighty Mouse (distracted by David Gilmour - ex Pink Floyd DVD on screen), and USB Overdrive only permits a single keystroke (with modifier keys) per button assignment.

No news - Snow Leopard
 

Just wanted to post a quick follow up message that I don't believe this issue has been addressed in Snow Leopard. I upgraded just a few days ago but no luck on this one. Can't seem to locate a plist to examine anymore either...

Anybody?

You may wish to check out Butler (http://www.petermaurer.de/butler/). It allows you to easily assign multiple-key shortcuts. You could, for example, set a keyboard shortcut to press delete followed by an arrow press to take you to the desired email message (next/previous). Again, you can limit it to just one application, just as you've done with your Wacom - but no need to reach for the tablet in this case.

Just switched from Thunderbird (because of some dumb font issues while composing) to Mail and the default behavior of jumping UP to the next message rather than jumping DOWN is driving me nuts!

There has to be a way to change the default behavior.

Change the sort order.

nada..
 

How about they fix the problem?

Every other email client I have ever seen in my life behaves the opposite way. The only real question I have is whether this is some sort of strange Mac purist ideology of some sort or whether is just an oversight that they'll consider fixing. That just might be worth the phone call...


Either way, if they continue with their Microsoft inspired micro-management of the users they'll soon find we're all on Android or Linux anyway. ..... We'll move some place we're "Free as in Freedom".

I don't think they regard it as a problem. Mail is set up to move from oldest to newest no matter which way you have them sorted in the display.

This is pretty interesting. Unlike sokol99, I was aggravated by my work's Microsoft Outlook's behavior, when deleting, moving down to the "older" message! Thankfully, Outlook's options menu allowed me to change the behavior to moving upward to the "newer" message after I delete a message.

When Outlook opens at work, it opens on my last read message. So it's more natural for me to move upward, to each more recent message, deleting as I go. I was glad that Microsoft allowed me to modify Outlook. I was frustrated for a bit when our work upgraded to Office 2007 and Outlook would move downward to the older message. Previously, in whatever year we were using, it moved upward to the newer message.

Too bad Apple hasn't incorporated a way for a user to configure that behavior the way that Microsoft has.

Exactly -- what's needed is a preference for "move to next oldest" or "move to next newest" whenever you remove an email from your inbox stack (or in my case, a "To Read" smart folder).

Found a great tip
 

I may be too late, but I found a great tip to solve this, as it was driving me crazy. :)

Click here: http://support.indev.ca/discussions/...e-next-message

Worked like a charm for me, and I thought I would share. Thanks.

Lion Update
 

Just a quick note that this behavior has not changed in Lion. Sigh... I know this can't be an issue for only 1-2 people though. I haven't looked for a plist but I definitely don't see any blatant options in the application otherwise..

NovaScotian, since I know you have Keyboard Maestro, you could set up a simple macro like the one I have, shown in the picture below. Mine is designed to delete the currently open message, then open the next message. Obviously, you could adjust it for different situations, or create multiple macros for the various situations.

Hadn't thought of that.

The default behavior of Mail is the way that I prefer it, but one would think that Apple would create a way to allow users to choose the behavior. Microsoft's Outlook allows the user to choose.

Perhaps other email clients allow the user to choose the behavior?

This worked instantly with no overhead or issues, or need to install additional software. I registered just to comment on it.

Is there a way to sticky this response to the top of the thread? I have literally been searching for the response on how to fix this backwards behavior of Mail.app for years with success. This is the only response in the whole thread that accomplishes the desired goal without any cruft.

(For the record, yes, every mail application I have ever used besides Mail.app behaves the other way. If not for this terminal command, there was no way to fix it.)

Thank you!

Yes! Thanks freebird300 and glassFractals! This did the trick! Finally, no more backwards feeling! I knew there HAD to be something we could do. Great! :)

For the record, here is the command:
defaults write com.apple.mail IgnoreSortOrderWhenSelectingAfterDelete 1

I'll see whether I can edit my original question with this.

LOL, February 2007 to February 2012. Glad that a way has been found and communicated.

Ouch. I must be the only slow one here. I tried copying the command "defaults write com.apple.mail IgnoreSortOrderWhenSelectingAfterDelete 1" into the Terminal but the problem isn't fixed. Is there a special way to close the Terminal window after pasting the command?