Keynote first impressions!
 

I'm sure there are other people out there watching the updates for the keynote and have this page loaded at the same time, so i figured we might as well comment on what we think in semi real-time.

It's starting right now...

anyone got a link to info on the keynote that doesn't take 8 gazillion years to load?

Hey, flying bacon! :-)

I'm using macrumors.com

they refresh it every minute on the minute!

hard to believe that so many songs have been sold. 2 billion!!!

http://www.macrumorslive.com/

Apple TV and widescreen ipod? Or am I getting my wires crossed?

Widescreen iPod, phone, and internet. All in one! amazing.

i posted about the screen that senses your movement in another thread yesterday. But the phone actually has a proximity sensor in it! what is going on??

Sweet, I'm liking the phone so far. I hope the announce a second product though, I want to see a computer upgrade. And what about the improvements to iLife?

i also want to hear some stuff about Leopard

I haven’t got myself a Christmas present yet. :) This just may be it!
And it far succeeds my expectations. The Apple phone may prove to be the business phone that I’ve been waiting for -- right now I’m glad I waited.

Really eager to read the coming reviews after the pundits have had their hands-on fun-and-games.

the iPhone does look sweet...but what about the trademark problem with Cisco?? Oh well...I'm sure the brains at Apple have already thought that through. If it's the right price I might pick one up. Time to replace my 2G iPod.

$599!!! Effff that. That is $1 short of what I pay in rent every month. I'll stick with my free company phone for now.

Only Cingular? That is kind of lame...

what about all of us who are already wrapped into contracts? Oh, well. guess I won't be getting one until 2008. crap.

Better make that next Christmas.

Not gonna buy a iPod until the 'iPhone' comes out.

Not available for 6 months!!!! And Q4 in Europe!!! Well why announce it now then? Stupid, stupid, wonderful, stupid Apple.

Yeah! I think it’s high time Apple starting equal treatment of the North American and European markets. :( I fail to see why they can’t do that.

Isn’t that a type of "globalisation" that should be expected in this day and age?!


Cingular? Raising the bar -- as in barrier. My experience driving from Redding to San Francisco via Eureka two years ago came as a real shock. In Norway I doubt you can come up with a village of more than 100 people that lacks cell phone coverage.

Well, when it does finally get to Norway, the Apple phone will in all probability be carrier-independent.

Cingular...
 

On the one hand, I'm not under a contract with T-Mo anymore, so I could jump ship. But... Cingular really sucks in our area. I have friends on Cingular, and more than half the time when I try to call them, I get "subscriber cannot be reached" messages. Perhaps that's how they have the fewest dropped calls - they can't drop a call that never gets connected!

So I'm torn. This is like the coolest gadget ever. But Apple should consider making a version without the GSM built in - it could still go online via WiFi or a Bluetooth connection to a user's existing phone. Perhaps it could even dial via Bluetooth and act as a handset while the clunky old-school phone stays in the user's pocket. Convergence is good, but not so much when it ties you to a single provider.

Of course, when/if WiMax is widely deployed, theoretically the cellular carrier will not even be needed anymore. Then this will really be a "killer" device. :D

My verdict on iPhone: Cool device. Really cool device. But what I do not understand is why on earth they would lock down their service to one company. Motorola didn't get the RAZR to be the number one phone on the market by only letting verizon or any other company sell it. And of all the companies to go with, why Cingular?

Unless you have a life where you never leave the city proper or even venture a few miles off the interstate, Cingular is useless!

I live in New Mexico, and frequently drive in areas that are nowhere near those areas. The only two phone companies I could ever consider are Alltel and Verizon.

In the Technical sense, amazing. In the practical sense, disappointing.

They probably need more time to get the European carriers on board, especially if they want to offer that visual voicemail thing. It was probably much easier to keep that under wraps dealing with just Cingular until now.

Globalization isn't real - at least, not in the sense that actual useful things like standardized cellphone or television networks can come from it. When you hear the world globalization in the news, substitute "cheap foreign labor and deregulation", because that's all it means.

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No Macs, no Leopard...
That does not come as a disappointment.

What it does mean is that journalists will be invited to a new Apple Media Event within 10 weeks. Guaranteed! :)

Gosh, there was NO patented "one more thing"??

I didn't expect new Macs - everything is Intel now, and there's not really any new technology to put in them at the moment. Price drops would be about the only likely change - especially for the Mini. I did expect to hear a bit more about Leopard.

You're probably right about a new Media Event, with Leopard release info, iSight built into the Cinema Displays, and perhaps some updated Macs.

I would gladly sacrifice the use of the visual voicemail for the ability to actually use the phone. While a breakthrough, I think a function like that should be a perk, should you choose to connect through Cingular.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Cingular. It just flat out does not fit for my lifestyle. If it works for other people, more power to 'em.

I guess I just feel like being whiney because assuming that Cingular keeps the scope of their network relatively constant, I'll never have the privilege of owning an iPhone.

Maybe its just me, but if my car were to break down in the middle of the barren New Mexican desert, I would rather have a signal than visual voicemail...

Wow, folks, check out the new Airport Extreme base station - now with 802.11n, three LAN ports, USB port for printer OR DISK sharing. Pretty cool, though not keynote-worthy I suppose.

I am extremely jealous.

Well since Cingular works terrible in New England...and I mean god aweful terrible. We will still be able to use the iPhone with Verizon because it is a GSM phone, right?

Verizon isn't GSM, so no way. The only other nationwide GSM carrier in the US is T-Mobile. That said, it's possible the phones will be locked to Cingular anyway, although I understand they are good about being willing to unlock phones once the contract expires. So by June of 2009 you can have an iPhone on T-Mobile. Which may be no better than Cingular in your area, although it is somewhat better here.

Then again, maybe unlocked iPhones will be available once it launches in Europe.

I know that T-mobile requires the use of a SIM card for their phones. Does Cingular require this as well?

Yes... and I am adding these words because I was told the message length was to short.

I just wanted to hear about Leopard...

The phone is nice, but, well, I think the new OS would have been more pertinent to me, and many other users for that matter. I wonder what the hold up is, and I hope this doesn't start looking like a Windows launch.

I hope you are right, it didn't feel like a coincidence that they dropped 'computer' from their name.

I wonder if the new and improved Apple Inc. will stay out of the backdating option practice, really revolting.

In the meantime, you could get the company to change their standard phone...:D

I have found this practice quite disturbing as well.

I got my MacBook in October. Then Apple introduced the Core 2 Duo MacBook. Okay, I could live with my machine depreciating faster than I can type. But now they have enabled the higher speed wifi for only the Core 2 MacBook but not my MacBook Core Duo and I am upset.

mirrors
 

any mirrors of the video keynote?

Very interesting, the iPhone. I've had my Palm for almost five years and was hoping for an iPod/PDA combo to replace it. I don't really need the phone part, but syncing up with iCal and Address Book would be handy; that's mostly what I use the PDA for. If you can set up your Mail on iPhone and sync it to your computer, that would be very handy as well. And you get a very nice video iPod.

iPhone
 

I'm torn. On one hand, this is a real breakthrough in the type of multifunctional devices that mobile phones seem to be evolving into. Love the touch screen concept, that navigation

Someone suggested a version that was independent of phone technology, communicating via WiFi and Bluetooth. Nokia has a similar concept out there, as can be seen here http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=415 I haven't seen this little box, but I'm going to bet that a phoneless iPhone (call it the iLife device) would outperform it on technology, versatility, data storage, and sheer coolness. We may be on to something here.

The thing about iPhone as a mobile data device is that it's obsolescent everywhere. For data 3G is the thing, even on GSM networks. In Europe high-end phones (I'm thinking SE K790 here, but only because I recently saw "Casino Royale") have WCDMA 2100 mhtz for UMTS data. In the States Cingular has HSDPA available in their 100 largest markets already. Verizon and Sprint both have competing "fast" data available - I use one of Sprint's broadband cards for work. GSM EDGE data is obsolete, or at least obsolescent. Do we now need an iPhone version for Europe, one for Noth America? What would work in the fast-growing Asian market? A phoneless device that could transfer data fast enough to take advantage of a 3G phone could work.

Or I could be worrying too much. Quad-band GSM will get you voice on most of the planet, and EDGE data on much of it. WiFi can be had a lot of places. Maybe this will work after all. But Cingular!? I'm still waiting to see what the non-subsidized price will be.

Anybody else notice that in the iPhone Apple has the makings of a really great tablet device?

who makes the parts for the iphone? Please do not say motorolla, b/c they make crap!

Also, who wants to start taking bets on how long it will take cisco to sue apple for the use of the name "iphone" ?

On the whole, it was a let-down for me. The entire show for what, 2 products?

On the other hand, the iPhone's 200 patents are going to open a world of opportunity toward the iTablet. The multitouch technology looks very much like the screen used in Minority Report. Imagine the iPhone's Hi-Res screen in 17" or larger? Imagine the case being one large sheet of hi-impact plastic? Apple is just putting its toe in the water here.

Also, did you notice the buttons? This is running OSX, and I saw NO DOCK! If the Dock was all that great, why is it not on the iPhone? I think we are going to see a shift in focus with Apple's interface. And I believe that Leopard will have quite a bit to do with it.

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So my question is:

Can I purchase the iPhone in California in June.
Unlock it. Take it back to Norway and put it to good use? :cool:

I'm not really interested in the phone. I'm not a person who checks my email when I am away and I am happy enough with my video ipod.

What I was interested in was the Appletv. It's going to be very tough for me not to run out and get the first incarnation of it with the smaller hard drive. The next one will be bigger, right? I mean they can do it in an ipod? I have resisted tivo and a dvr from my cable company, but this might just break me.

I have DVDs collecting dust because I am just too lazy to get up when I am there on the couch to put them in but would happily rip and encode them to go into itunes to play on the tv. I don't want to deal with building a mythtv thing because I live in a tiny apartment and even placing an old pc tower there is not worth it.

What this is making me think is that my hard drive is just too small, on my computer and on the first version of the Appletv.

When did an 80 gig HD become to/o small? How big do they make HDs for the PPC 15" powerbooks anyway? The thing runs beautifully. I would have to think that investing in a larger HD is going to be a lot cheaper than going for a new computer (not gonna happen).

I hope they ditch the dock...or at least provide some options.

On another note...I'm sad to see them drop the 'puter moniker from their name. I miss my rainbow fruit computer company. They were once in bed with Adobe, now they're in cahoots with Cingular :(

Is there a formal process to become a ludditte? ;)

Just watched the whole keynote stream (no lag whatsoever, very impressed) and the iPhone is just great.

I don't know if it's really in my budget, but i have to remind myself that a cell phone + a camera + an iPod will probably run more than 500-600 dollars anyway...and this device seems to do everything effortlessly...unlike my current cell phone :mad:

I'd buy the iPhone, but hell no if it'll ONLY WORK WITH CINGULAR.

I mean, I don't care if I lose visual voicemail.

iphone is very cool. It's the coolest phone I've ever seen. No keypad, it's brilliant.

Touch screen is probably coming to their computer pretty soon.

This was the first keynote that had me on the edge of my seat, I'll say that.

Sure, I’ll bet you 12 pints that there will be no lawsuit.

I think there is no chance Apple would blatantly use the name unless they were very close to signing an agreement with Cisco.

Reactions to Cisco’s "iPhone" were vehemently negative, along the lines of "get off the stage". I think their business strategists see them better served by getting a few million than by hanging tooth-and-nail onto to a trademark that is unlikely to be positive for their company.

12 pints. Do we have a bet?
Public and judicial posturing doesn’t count. Only a lawsuit reaching actual court deliberations.

The Beatles on iTunes?
 

Apple's lawyers will indeed be busy, but more likely due to the dropping of `Computer' from their name. This increases further the chances that they could be confused with the recording label Apple (the one that owns The Beatles' stuff) -- such a move is prohibited by the "agreement" reached between the two companies.

However, there may be a happy resolution:

- in the UK at least, ALL digital downlaods now count towards the chart. In the past, a song became inelligible two weeks after production of physical media versions were stopped.

- this means that old tracks (like The Beatles' stuff) can now re-enter the charts based on digital downloads alone.

- iTunes is a hugely popular, and thus influential, music download service.

- putting The Beatles' music on iTunes would likely result in a return to the charts for the fab four (and plenty of money for Apple Recordings).

- such a move would require a new "agreement" between the two Apples.

- Does playing a Beatles' track on the iPhone suggest such a move?


And if this does become true, you heard it here first!

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One thing is for sure:
The cell phone in Casino Royale, and the apps running on it, look hopelessly 20th century. :D

Sidelining the marketing moguls
 

You realize what this means, of course?!

It means that music lovers to an even great degree will decide the hit charts of all the music categories, significantly decreasing the influence of marketing moguls.

And that is catastrophe for record companies that have always done their utmost to set the agenda for the show.

:)

I only have one concern with the iPhone, should I buy it now or wait for a competitor to rip it off and make it better? I can only assume it only works with itunes for transfering data and audio/video. I can also assume they will heavily support DRM?

I mean the phone itself is pretty sweet, but I would want the freedom of not having to deal with DRM. I have never supported it in the first place.

No iLife 07? Most unusual. Coming soon, I'm sure.

I suppose it's possible that it will coincide with Leopard. I'm keenly disappointed that there was no update on Leopard's status. Although it would not surprise me if that's a subset of it running on the iPhone.


Edit - On the other hand, the new Airport Extreme, with it's ability to share multiple usb drives and printers, makes me very happy. The fact that my new MacBook will support 802.11n doesn't suck either.

Yes, I believe mid-2007 will see a special "One more thing" event that will feature nothing but software upgrades such as Leopard, iLife 07, FinalCut Studio, and iWork Office. I think Steve wanted all the time at Macworld to demo the iPhone because it represents the early adoption toward their coming tablets that we may well see in early 2008. Till then, PCers can continue to crow about having a tablet available to them exclusively.

That said, I still hold to my prediction that the MacTab will be a solid plate of plastic with all peripherals connected wirelessly in some shape or form. I think optic fiber will be the next "Firewire" and will require no physical hookup. For those wishing to input, they can use any myriad of new keyboards with Bluetooth, or they can choose to use the onscreen multitouch screen keyboard. With multitouch, you can press the command keys and regular keys at the same time. We see it on the iPhone, the larger computer version will be available in the near future.

You mean the way that competitors have made products that are better than iPods?

Supporting DRM is not the same as forcing you to use DRM'd files.
You are completely free to put non-DRM'd files (e.g. MP3's) on your iPod.
There is no reason to expect the iPhone to differ from previous iPods in this regard.

Yes Hayne, there are some protable audio players that use and take micro SD cards and maybe aren't better than ipods but have a different approach which I like better. If the iphone had great third party support (ie, linux and open source apps) and I could toss any music or video/movie I wanted on there in a very easy fashion it would be great. However, I am going to guess you are limited to itunes until someone comes up with a plug in or extension for the open source stuff out there.

I am a big supporter of the open source media players and their respective formats. I just wish some commercial player would support them.

A hacker’s efforts toward open source...
 

Perhaps my good compatriot Jon Lech Johansen may be inspired to come up with something.

After all, he has made significant contributions to "opening up" various Apple formats before. I quote Wikipedia.

“On March 18, 2005, Travis Watkins and Cody Brocious, along with Johansen, wrote PyMusique, a Python based program which allows the download of purchased files from the iTunes Music Store without DRM encryption. This was possible because Apple Computer's iTunes software adds the DRM to the music file after the music file is downloaded. On March 22, Apple released a patch for the iTunes Music Store blocking the use of his PyMusique program. The same day, an update to PyMusique was released, circumventing the new patch.

September, 2005, Johansen announced the release of SharpMusique 1.0, an alternative to the default iTunes program. The program allows Linux and Windows users to buy songs from the iTunes music store without copy protection.

In October 2006, Johansen and DoubleTwist Ventures announced they had reverse engineered Apple Computer's DRM for iTunes, called FairPlay.”

Worth noting is that DVD-John, which he is better known as, has never sought to gain illegal economic advantage through these efforts. That is why he defeated the recording industry in court cases here in Norway.

Interesting, I also hope that it supports some of those real nice open source lossless formats like FLAC and OGG. I know you can load and install Linux on your ipod and it does support those formats and many more, but at the same time I mean you are kind of destroying the product you buy.

There has been much talk about a complete drag n drop all in one device in the making for some time now. The major problem is that no one majorly (financially) wants to back it because they fear they will lose money to the open source community.

Anyways, before I turn this into a rant, I am very impressed with the iphone but certain aspects may turn me off of it, just like other apple products. I love the ipod but don't own one because of a few things I do not like about them. I am currently building a C2D PC at the moment, just waiting for a few of my old parts to sell before I go buy new ones and my current PC (amd 64) is going to become a pure linux media box with myth tv and I want to buy a nano for it for my music on the go.

I have to say I'm very surprised about two things in the iPhone:

1) GSM...I'm quite surprised it's not 3G (but then maybe the numbers say that you can get GSM coverage just about anywhere but 3G is still way behind??)

2) Locked to one carrier...I wonder if it has to do with network subsidies keeping the price of the phone down.

...actually three things...

3) 2 megapixel camera?? I've just been using the (3G) Nokia N73 with a brilliant 3.2 megapixel camera. Takes great shots. I'd still rather have the iPhone, but still... not very cutting edge there either! By the time we can get this thing in most parts of the world, competitors will probably have 4 megapixel cameras in them with optical zooms!

dammit...four things... whats the battery life? I've seent he references to audio playback 16hours, but what's the standby time?

Speaking of battery life... just read it's non-replaceable??? That's ridiculous for a $600 phone.

<Analogous to>
New Porsche owner: What do you mean I can't do my own tune-ups! That's ridiculous for a $100,000 car.
</Analogous to>

I'm quite sure that there will be a way for you to send in your iPhone for a battery replacement when it is required - but by that time most people who can afford to pay $600 for their phone will have upgraded to iPhone II or iPhone III.

There's a big difference between tuning a car and swapping a battery. I'd say a closer analogy would be sending your $100,000 Porsche to the shop for two weeks to change the wiper blades.

My point was that swapping the battery is not something that you should expect to be doing very soon or very regularly. With a car, you take it as a given that you will need to take it into the shop for regular maintenance a few times a year. And that you will replace it after 5-7 years or so.
The lifetime for a phone is much less than a car.

In my experience it has been the battery that limits the lifetime of the phone. And a phone like with the features of the iPhone I would expect to be recharging it pretty frequently. As I understand it batteries have a limited number of charge cycles before they just don't hold a charge any more. Then it's often not worth replacing the battery because you can just about replace the whole phone for the cost of the battery. But when the phone costs $600...

Anyway I'm probably not in their target demographic because I couldn't justify spending that much on a (disposable) phone so maybe I should just stop arguing the point.

But my points were precisely that:

• just because the battery isn't user-replaceable doesn't mean it isn't replaceable
• when a phone costs $600, it isn't too outrageous to have to pay $80 (or whatever) to get someone to replace the battery every year or so.
• all cell phones are "disposable" (after a year or two) from the point of view of people who keep up on the latest and greatest

I wonder if AASPs and other apple certified people can order parts and repair iphones. I have taken phones apart before and fixed things n them, its not that hard.

However, I am worried about the quality of the phone. I only use Nokia phones now because I have had such bad experiences with phones from other companies.

NEW! Apple battery replacement program
 

I think those are good points, Hayne. And I thought your Porsche analogy good fun.

But I also note the objections. And I do notice that one of the biggest downsides for many iPod owners is the big hassle and huge expense of battery replacement.

What would be brilliant is for Apple Stores / Apple dealers to come up with an inexpensive and immediate Battery Replacement Program. I can imagine walking into my Apple store and saying “I think I need new batteries for my iPhone and iPod.”

“No problem. That will be $60 for the phone and $20 for the pod. Come back in 30 minutes and we’ll have ’em ready.”

Artic,

That is why I was pondering if AASPs would have access to such parts for Apple's customers. My guess is no, they will not, but instead Cingular will be responsible for said repair and maintainence. Thus, you may have to ship it out, and they will probably offer you a loaner until yours comes back from repair.

Cell phone companies have gotten a lot more strict over the years because of the highly competitive market.

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Apple: Implement a good Battery Replacement Program, and make iPod and iPhone screens as close to scratch-proof as possible, and cooperate closely with AASPs...

...and user satisfaction will tangent 100%.

I feel the pain of costly battery replacements...I mean, I'm one of the owners of a 1 GB nano from way back when, and I know it'd hardly be worth it to replace the battery in it.

A little googling shows me that you can find a do-it-yourself battery replacement kit for the 1 GB Nano iPod at $41.
Seems like it might be worth it.

the phone is amazing it really does redifine the phone internet mp3/4 etc but $600 on the downpayment for the 2 year contract thats ridiculous but i'll still get 1

Well, I'm of the "cheap sunglasses" ilk that do not like to carry anything on my person that will cause me to weap if said product is 1) Lost 2) Stolen 3) mugged for 4) broken by sitting on or 5) dropped in water when washing hands.

Case in point, my favorite camera in the 70s-80s was a Pentax K1000.

Cisco's response to the trademark fiasco is very nice...i like

I agree with them, and I think Apple was rude to have placed this name it. Besides, it's a dumb name for this unit. It's not JUST a phone. For pity sake, they could have called it the iTome or TriCord or iPad... ANYTHING. It was almost like an "in your face" move. Call it Moof and get it over with. It's a cow! No it's a dog! Ugh. Bad move Stevo.

Yes, very well, done. But read some of the comments below Cisco's statement, which also score some good points for Apple. e.g.
and . . .

One thing for sure...this is mega blog-fodder.

I think Cisco's request for interoperability was either a genuine stance against the proprietary nature of Apple's products, or a outlandish request they knew Apple would reject (for use as bargaining chip). It's too bad we only see a small portion of what really goes on.

I'd give my teeth to be in the meeting with Chambers and Jobs. Darth Steve trying to choke out John "Char-Char" Chambers with his reality-distortion-field-choke-grip.

Ha! Yes. :)

A couple more: The tone of Chandler's statement does seem a bit sanctimonious.

And, best one of all, imo:

LOL Thanks for the image.

"Oh no, meesa own iPhoney." crack... girgle.

In defense of RealNetworks
 

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Here is an interesting response from a Real fan, who happens to be senior editor off Fortune magazine. I think they’re wrong, but it’s a perspective worth reading.

LG comes out with iPhone Killa
 

Hmm, LG announced their iPhone a month before the iPhone! So if LG's phone is cheaper, Apple may be in trouble.:eek:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1...ke850wmja8.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4...e8502wmrz4.jpg

Looks like Apple has some competition!

Sparky, do you have a link to that? I cannot find your phone anywhere on LG Electronics’ website.

Those images seem to have come from this Engadget article:
http://hdtv.engadget.com/2007/01/11/...ated-at-birth/

Sparky9292:
Please edit your post to remove those copyrighted images - we don't tolerate copyright infringement on these forums. Just summarize the article and post a link.

Now that has to make some wonder... they're so alike. But at some point, from what I understood, iPhone-from-Apple will be using cingular, is that supposed to be available everywhere? I mean like world-wide available?

Couldn't find the survey I read, but it was talking about how people with multi-task phones (mostly mp3s and camera) would still carry around their mp3s and cameras. Not that I think iPhone will crash for that reason, but until phones can take both similarly advanced techs of cameras and mp3s and integrate it in a versatile phone... not today I think

The devices are all well and good, but I'm kind of afraid that with all this consumer mumbo-jumbo, Apple is going to leave the Mac behind.

Apple and Cisco have settled out of court.
As I suspected, the lawsuit never reached the courtroom.