Added printer, changes its IP Address, now network connections flaky. Confused.
 

I recently added a new 3in1 printer to my network, but now I'm having erratic problems with my network. I've checked everything I can think of, but I don't know what to do.

The Problem:
The new printer keeps changing it's IP Address so I can be connected to it one moment, and lose my connection the next. For example, I can be working with the info/config page (IP Address as URL), and all is well, but then suddenly everything stops working. Checking the printer, sure enough, it's changed its IP Address. When I put the new IP Address as the URL, I can connect to it again. Of course, this reeks havoc with Printer Setup Utility which can't figure out the new IP Address on its own.

Second problem I've discovered is that my file sharing from my PowerBook to my G4 and G5 is flaky. At first, everything seemed just fine. I had the printer working, printing and faxing. I could connect to the G4 and G5 like normal. Great! But then last night when I tried to connect to one of my hard drives on my G5, it couldn't find it. I checked, and that drive was working fine on my G5 itself. I tried connecting with other drives on the G5, and I found that I could connect to about half of the drives (4 physical drives, some partitioned). I rebooted my PowerBook, the G5, and the entire network, and all that did was make it so I can't connect to ANY of the drives on the G5 -- including the ones that I could connect just before. I checked my connections to the G4, and that worked fine; I could connect to all my hard drives on that Mac. Odd?

I looked up the IP Address of the G5 and tried to ping it. I can ping it perfectly. So I tried to use the menu option of Go > Connect to Server... and entered the IP Address, but it still can't find the G5!

When I attempt to connect to the G5, the first messages I receive are:

Connecting to afp://192.168.2.14

and

Looking up "192.168.2.14"

After what seems a long time (30 or 60 seconds?), I then receive this error message:

Connection failed
The server may not exist or it is not operational at this time. Check the server name or IP Address and try again.

Network Info:
The network consists of 3 Win computers and 3 Macs with 2 printers. It is a mixed ethernet and airport environment. I have two Airport Extreme (not express), one base and the other remote. I also have a Dr. Botts Omni Directional antenna.

• G5 - ethernet
• G4 - ethernet
• PowerBook - Airport
• Husband's Sony laptop - Airport
• Husband's Dell laptop - Airport
• Old Dell desktop - ethernet (currently turned off and unplugged from ethernet)
• Main Printer: Magicolor 3300 - ethernet (somehow bridged through the router to parallel printing because my husband's PCs seem to need this?)
• Fax Printer: HP LaserJet 3055 - ethernet (this is the new printer)

It's all connected through a Linksys hub connected to an SMC router my husband installed many years ago which has been working flawlessly all this time.

I'm sure this has something to do with the installation of the new printer since the problems began when the printer was installed and because the printer keeps changing its IP Address. I just don't know much about networks to know where to start with this. :confused:

One other thing I think might be an important factor. The IP Address doesn't seem to be changing at random. It only changes when I'm using the utility page (URL thingy). While I'm not sure what made it change before, I know it changed IP Addresses today just after I turned Bonjour from off to on. It was originally ON, but I had turned it OFF when I installed the printer. But upon reading another thread in here, I decided to try turning it back ON to see if that would fix things. Just as I made the change, I think the printer changed its IP Address because that's when the utility page suddenly started hanging.

And something else I just realized you guys may want to know. The Airport network is just a simple bridge to the ethernet network. I don't assign any IP Addresses anywhere. Everything, including the new printer, is set up with DHCP.

1. 3-in-1 printers often have drivers that accompany them. Did you install a HP driver on any of your computers for this 3-in-1?

2. What is the HP 3055 using to connect to the network (such as an HP JetDirect card, for one example)? What manufacturer and model?

3. What happens when you give the printer a static IP address in the subnet, but outside of DHCP range?

4. What do you see when you run Ethereal (installable with fink) on a computer in promiscuous mode connected to the hub? This should show you all packets going to the printer, since you are using a hub rather than a switch.

Trevor

Trevor, many of your questions are going over my head. But let me do my best to answer them.

1. 3-in-1 printers often have drivers that accompany them. Did you install a HP driver on any of your computers for this 3-in-1?

The printer came with a Mac OSX installation disk which I ran successfully. I don't see any drivers specifically for the 3055 model, but I am using the drivers for the 3052 model which is the very same printer except for the fax capabilities. The 3055 uses a second driver for the fax.

Looking for what I can find (why won't spotlight search ALL files, including system libraries when I tell it to search the computer?):

Printer Setup Utility show the printer using these two drivers:

For Printing: HP LaserJet 3052
For Faxing: HP LaserJet Series CUPS v1.1

I can't seem to find these drivers on my hard drive. I thought they would be in an en.lproj or english.lproj folder with a path something like <from HD, System, User?>/Library/Printers/PPDs/thedriverfiles. I know I found them the other day because I removed and added the LaserJet to the Printer Setup Utility when I first starting to have problems. But now, I just cannot find them. So here's a list of the files I could find. Maybe the drivers are in here, and I'm just not recognizing them?

• /System/Library/Extensions/hp_laserjet_3052-3055.kext
• /Users/myuserid/Library/Printers/HP LaserJet 3055.app
• /Users/myuserid/Library/Printers/HP LaserJet Fax.app
• /Library/Application Support/hp/hpio/Device Descriptions/laserjet_3052-3055.plist
• /Library/Image Capture/TWAIN Data Sources/HP LaserJet Scan DS.ds/Contents/Resources/Capabilities/HP_LaserJet_3052.plist
• /Library/Application Support/hp/laserjet/Trap Monitor/Configuration/HP LaserJet 3052.xml
• /Library/Application Support/hp/laserjet/Trap Monitor/Configuration/HP LaserJet 3055.xml
• /Library/Preferences/com.hp.LaserJetAIO.plist

2. What is the HP 3055 using to connect to the network (such as an HP JetDirect card, for one example)? What manufacturer and model?

The 3055 is network ready from HP. I don't know what they put in the printer to make it network ready, and the specs page isn't saying much.

All it says is "Connectivity, std. Built-in 10/100 Base-T TCP/IP networking with 1 RJ-45 port; Hi-Speed USB port". I don't have the USB connected to anything. The ethernet cable I'm using right now is one I took off the unused PC which had been running on the network for several years and has been active as late as just a few days ago. I just stole that cable until I can get another ethernet cable wired around the room to have both running.

Here's the specs page, if it's any help: HP LaserJet 3055 Specs. They also have a pdf data sheet which gives more info, but still no specifics on what networking card they used.

3. What happens when you give the printer a static IP address in the subnet, but outside of DHCP range?

I have no idea what any of that means or how to do it. I know that a static IP Address is one that is assigned while using DHCP lets the network (or printer?) assign one automatically, but my understanding is so vague that I pretty much just look for DHCP, click on it and hope it works. 99% of the time it does.

If you can tell me what to do, I can follow directions very easily so I can get the info you're wanting.

4. What do you see when you run Ethereal (installable with fink) on a computer in promiscuous mode connected to the hub? This should show you all packets going to the printer, since you are using a hub rather than a switch.

Ethereal? At first, I thought that was a typo. Promiscuous mode? I won't say what I thought with that one. And I also can't say that I know what a subnet is.

In other words, I have no clue what any of that means.

Networking is probably the area of computing in which I am the most ignorant. I only have a basic concept of hooking up the wires and doing what the instruction books tell me in order to install things. Otherwise, I'm very lost.

I'll just respond to one of the items - about setting a static IP address outside of the DHCP range.
First off, you need to look at the config page of your router to see what range of IP addresses it will assign via DHCP.
It is often expressed as a starting address (e.g. 192.168.1.100) and a number of allowable clients (e.g. 50) - that would mean that it would hand out addresses in the range 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150 inclusive.
So the IP address 192.168.1.151 would be outside the range handled by DHCP but would still be in the same sub-net (192.168.1.xxx)

You can set a static IP address (i.e. one that doesn't change since it is you, not DHCP that decides what the address should be) by changing the Network preferences to use "DHCP with manual address".
When you specify such an address, it should always be one that is outside of the range handled by DHCP since otherwise DHCP might assign that same address to some other machine.

Okay, I can do that. I need to look up how to look at the router's config page (haven't done it in years!), but I think I understood what you're saying, and it's not hard at all.

It looks like the range is 40, but I'm a bit confused because it has entry fields for the IP Addresses at either end (starting and ending of the range) which implies that it can be edited? 40 is more than I need so I'm not going to be editing anything. I just thought that was odd.

I also think I figured out the source of my connection problems with the G5. Looking at the status page, I found this:

. IP=192.168.2.20; MAC=0x0014517d491f; hostname="PowerBook"
. IP=192.168.2.9; MAC=0x0014515be5f9; hostname=""
. IP=192.168.2.16; MAC=0x001451618597; hostname=""
. IP=192.168.2.30; MAC=0x080086197934; hostname="KON_080086197934"
. IP=192.168.2.14; MAC=0x000a95cb2452; hostname=""
. IP=192.168.2.2; MAC=0x000393670bcc; hostname="Vickis-Fast-G4"

The two macs in which I can connect, the G4 and PowerBook, are both named on the list. The G5, which is ".14" on the list, is not named. That would fit perfectly with looking for the server and being unable to find it.

However, that does not explain why I can't connect to the G5 using the IP Address... unless a hostname is required for any method of connecting?

Quick question... What is the "Default Gateway"? The router gives me more than one Gateway IP Address, but none of them are identified as the default.

INTERNET
Cable/DSL : CONNECTED
WAN IP: 24.174.70.21
Subnet Mask: 255.255.248.0 <-- This one?
Gateway IP: 24.174.64.1 <-- Here's a Gateway IP, but it's not stated as default.
DNS: 24.93.41.125
Secondary DNS: 24.93.41.126


GATEWAY
IP Address: 192.168.2.1 <-- this is what I entered. It's the IP Address under the Gateway heading. So is this the default one?
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0 <-- Or this one?
DHCP Server: Enabled
Firewall: Enabled
Printer Status: READY


Also, I entered the 255.255.255.0 where it asked for the Subnet Address. This is right, isn't it?

I think the "INTERNET" section of your router's config page is for the parameters of your ISP. E.g. 24.174.64.1 is the IP address where your router will send all packets - it is the address of your ISP's router.

And I think the GATEWAY section of your router's config page is for the inward-facing parameters - those that will be used for your local network.
So setting the IP address to 192.168.2.1 means that your router will have that as its local (inward-facing) IP address - this is what should show up in your Mac's Network Preferences as "Router". (It is set to this value by the DHCP server in your router when the Mac asks the DHCP server for info)

The subnet mask indicates what portion of the possible IP addresses in the 192.168.xxx.xxx range will be covered by the router.
By putting 255.255.255.0 you are saying that the router will cover the addresses 192.168.2.xxx where xxx is anything. This is correct.

Thanks hayne! Your explanations make perfect sense. :)

Also, I think I've narrowed down the problem, but I don't know how to fix it. Installing the printer did indeed screw things up with my network.

Okay, we've established that my local network is using DHCP, with an IP range of 192.168.2.0 through 40. And the new printer is set up with a static IP Address of 192.168.2.50.

But take a look at what Network Utility gives me when I ask for the routing tables info:

Two things makes this of particular interest. Firstly, 169.254.35.4 is the IP Address the printer assigned to itself which I used for a day. It was the IP Address the printer changed to when I turned off Bonjour. But even before I made that change, I believe the printer was trying to use a 169.254.... IP Address (or something else, but I don't think it was an address within my local network).

And the second and most telling part of this is that when I decided to "Renew DHCP Lease" in Network Preferences, my G5 changed to an IP Address with that same odd prefix 169.254....

I was going to get the exact IP Address, but just now when I checked, the G5 had changed back to an IP Address in my local network range. How and why did it do that without my interaction?

I also selected "Renew DHCP Lease" on my PowerBook, and it came back with it's normal IP Address within my local network, and now it's hostname is showing up in the router's client list. It was there yesterday, but when I reset things, it disappeared, but now it's back.

This is where the flakiness is coming from. What the heck did the HP printer do when I installed it? Why did it inject that 169.254... IP Address thingy into my local network?

And more importantly, how do I purge that IP Address from my network and get things straightened out again?

btw... the HP printer is working great with the assigned IP Address. But I still cannot connect to my G5.

I believe that's a self-assigned address, which means that the G5 isn't getting an address from the router.

I've been looking through all sorts of things (not that I know what I'm looking at), and I decided to try to Renew the DCHP Lease on the G5 again.

When I selected Network in the Preferences, I was first given a notice saying "another program has changed your network settings." Okay. So I hit Renew Lease, and this time I caught the other IP Address.

It first showed 169.254.99.51 and then it changed quickly to an IP Address for my network.

Now I have gone through the Network Preferences enough to know that the notice of some other program having "changed the network settings" is absolutely not normal. Something was changed by that HP printer. And now it's got my local network screwed up.

Something else I find interesting. While the network settings on my PowerBook can't find the G5 and the G5's localhost name doesn't show up in the router's client list, all of the network scanning apps I've tried so far can see the G5. It shows me the (my local) IP Address and the MAC Address. And even the router knows the (local) IP Address for the G5, just not the localhost name. So why can't I connect to the G5 by, if nothing else, using the IP Address?

I sure hope someone who knows the ins and outs of networking can offer some suggestions on how to fix this mess. I'm spending hours on this without getting very far. I wish I knew more about networking.

I'm getting closer! I discovered two processes in the Activity Monitor for the G5 that are named "HP Proxy <something>" and the second one is the very same, but with the number 2 added.

G5 turned off right now (file sharing closed and network/sharing preferences are locked). I'm going to see if those processes are anywhere else in my network. And I'm going to definitely look for some reference to it in my HP printer.

I think I'm stumbling into the answer. Not quite sure how to fix any of it yet, but I'm getting closer! :)

Edited to add: Yup, it's on my PowerBook too!

I found the apps!

/Library/Frameworks/HPServicesInterface.framework/Versions/A/Runtime/HP IO Classic Proxy.app

/Library/Frameworks/HPServicesInterface.framework/Versions/B/Runtime/HP IO Classic Proxy 2.app

Looking at the dates on these apps and determining that they are only on the PowerBook and G5, but not the G4, I am pretty sure these apps were put there during the HP software installation. I installed the HP software on the PB and G5, but not the G4. And the time stamps fit the times in which I did the installations.

Now the question is can I delete them? I usually don't mess with system files unless I know what I'm doing. In this case, I very much do not know. Does anyone here know?

This is getting frustrating. I found all of the online pdfs HP has for this printer (technical, software, user, installation) and did a search in them all for the word proxy. 0 occurrences in ALL of them!

So what other name could they use instead of proxy? :confused:

I think I might have fixed it? Or maybe it's just playing games with me?

Trying to look for proxy everywhere I could, I ended up back to Network Preferences. No proxies were checked, but I did notice a check at the bottom by Passive ftp. I had noticed a reference to that the other day and thought it was odd. So I went with my hunch and unchecked it.

Now the G5 shows up by name, and I'm currently connected to two of the servers!

Could it have been that simple as to uncheck the Passive ftp box?

Why do I hear Pink Floyd echoing in my ear... Is There Anybody Out There? ;)

1) Since these are obviously things put there by the HP installer, the worst that could happen if you deleted them (or better, moved them elsewhere or renamed them) is that the HP printer might not work.

2) But these apps don't do anything unless they get run somehow. Are they running now (or were they running some earlier time when you looked - e.g. with Activity Monitor)?
There must be something else that is launching those apps (assuming that they are running) since apps don't automatically get launched just because they are under the /Library/Frameworks folder.

And if they are getting launched somehow, are they getting launched only for your user or for all users? (Create a new test user account in Accounts preferences if you don't have one already)

Just checked my "clean user" account, and those apps are running on that one, too. So it's system wide. Something is indeed launching them, but what?

My husband said when he ran his Windows install disk, it asked him if he wanted to connect to HP (to which he answered no). When I ran the Mac version, it never asked me that question. It appears it connected me to HP by default.

So even if I move or rename the apps, whatever is launching them will still try to launch them so I will need to clean that up.

If these HP apps are getting launched somehow and it is happening for all users (and I assume you've checked that there isn't anything in the login items list in the Accounts preferences for these users that might be launching them), then it must be some system-wide mechanism that is doing it.

One thing that might be useful is to set Activity Monitor to "hierarchical" mode and see what the parent process of these HP processes is.

The following is a possibly incomplete list of the mechanisms that can be used to run software at system startup:

1) The script /etc/rc and the sub-scripts it invokes (especially /etc/rc.local)

2) Launchd (files in /System/Library/LaunchDaemons and /Library/LaunchDaemons)

3) "@reboot" entries in /etc/crontab (and possibly also in per-user crontabs)

4) bundles in /System/Library/SystemConfiguration

5) scripts in /System/Library/StartupItems and /Library/StartupItems

6) kernel extensions in /System/Library/Extensions

7) entries in the file /Library/Preferences/com.apple.SystemLoginItems.plist (an undocumented mechanism)

8) plist files in /etc/mach_init.d or /etc/mach_init_per_user.d
(deprecated and possibly limited to certain "Apple-specific" items in 10.4, but will work generally in 10.3)

9) mount entries in /etc/fstab
(Can be used to mount filesystems which might trigger other software to run.)

See also Apple's developer docs on the system startup:
http://developer.apple.com/documenta...tup/index.html


The most likely one is #5 so look in /Library/StartupItems first.

You were right; #5 was it!

Take a look at what I found in the StartupItems folder:

http://www.vickishome.com/0TempFiles/HPs%20Mess.gif

My eyes immediately dropped to the "Gateway" in all that. I am rather mad at HP at the moment. I cannot believe they did this to my network without asking permission and without even a single notice. They just did it without saying a damn thing. And I've had to sort through all of this to find it myself (with you're help). I never dreamed HP would do this to a network! This printer is advertised as a small to medium office printer, not a home printer. Could you imagine the network being messed with -- without warning or notice -- in a business environment?

Okay, I got my grumbles out. So now, which ones can I remove and which ones look like they belong there?

I'm going to go hunting for more info on these files. I bet I'm not the only one that's ran into this problem.

Here's the Unix Executable File in for the HP IO StartupItem. Since you guys can read the code, maybe this will help you help me figure out what to do.

It doesn't look like anyone knows how to fix this. I've found a number of others who have posted about this problem, but so far, all I've found are people who either give up options (such as scanning which I must have for faxing) or they just live with it. I have found some solutions, but they're too old to apply to my situation as I don't have the same files they suggest editing.

I know the apps in StartupItems are called by the \Library\Preferences\loginwindow.plist, but I have no idea the consequences should I attempt to manually edit it.

I want this gateway stuff OFF my network. I had no idea it would be this hard. :(

All that StartupItem does is launch the executable (program or script):
/Library/Frameworks/HPServicesInterface.framework/Runtime/hpusbmond
which is referred to as "HP IO Monitor".

Since we have no idea what that program does or if it is really necessary for proper functioning of the printer, you are on your own.
What I would do is remove those HP StartupItems from the /Library/StartupItems folder (e.g. move them to a new folder on your Desktop or wherever) and then restart your Mac and see how/if the printer works.
I.e. experiment
Moving those StartupItems out of the /Library/StartupItems folder won't hurt the functioning of your Mac (by default the /Library/StartupItems folder is empty) so it's all down to whether the printer functions without them.

You might also send an email to HP Support.

On my own... that's what I was afraid of. I had hoped someone could actually read the code to see what it's doing. If you guys can't do it, then I'm in trouble. :(

I'm on the phone right now with HP Technical Support, and so far, the guy has told me that my router has gone bad. WHAT?!

Okay, I expected to have problems with the first level of technical support, given the nature of this problem, but I did not expect him to be blatantly ignorant and absolutely refuse to do anything more than blame my router.

So long story short, I'm on hold to talk to the next level tech. Let's see... I only have 2.5 hours to remain on hold. Anyone want to take bets on my chances of getting help?

But I did read the script and I told you what it is doing - it is launching the executable 'hpusbmond' as I explained above.
Of course I have no way of knowing what that executable is doing.

I had recommended sending an email to HP Support. I was thinking that you would ask in that email what the purpose of the StartupItems that HP installed is. And whether the printer would work without them.
And perhaps to complain that the installer did not adequately inform you about what it was going to install.

My recommendation from above still stands:
You should move those StartupItems to a different folder and then restart your Mac and see if the printer works.

I'm sorry, I didn't understand you on that one. I guess sometimes I think of you as being all-knowing and able to fix anything. ;)

Believe it or not, I'm actually glad I called HP Support. Okay, the first guy wasn't too bright, but the next guy actually did know his way around a Mac and where the files had been installed. He still didn't know the individual purpose of each individual file, but as I talked with him to find out what that software did as a whole, it was very clear that I wanted it completely off my system.

Hence came an unbelievable process of (1) running the uninstaller and then (2) finding umpteen files all over the place -- including \Library... and \System\Library.... I had to delete each one as I could find them. I think I ended up finding somewhere around a dozen to a bit shy of two dozen files that the HP uninstaller had left behind. Among those files were the two previous mentioned HP IO Classic Proxy files! Not only did the uninstaller not remove them, but until I removed them manually, they were launching and running from startup! I ended up having to trash my \Library\Preferences\loginwindow.plist since HP's uninstaller also left their trash behind in that file!

The only thing I can really say good about HP support is the tech I talked to hung in there with me every step of the way, including calling me back when I had to leave to pick up my daughter. I called around 1:00, and didn't hang up until 5:00 except for the 30 minutes I just mentioned. And Jeff, the tech, will call me Monday morning to see where things stand.

When we hang up, I was about to update the firmware in the printer, but I had a hard time finding a USB cable. I finally found one after he was gone, and was able to do the update successfully.

So here's where I am: To the best of my knowledge, ALL HP software is gone from my entire computer and nothing is launching at startup. And while I can ping the printer and it shows up in IPScanner, I cannot print. This is using the regular Mac drivers (but I couldn't print all day long with the other drivers and crap on my Mac).

The firmware update stated that it fixed problems with DCHP not finding local IP Addresses in networks (sound like my problem!), the moment I went back from the static IP to allowing the printer be assigned one through the router with DHCP, that other IP Address suddenly came back.

I did look that address up, and I now understand what it's doing. It's going to IANA because for some reason, it can't seem to get an IP Address from my router which cwtnospam told me earlier, but I didn't comprehend the meaning until now.

So after all that time, all that crap, I'm right back where I was when I first installed the printer. Actually, I'm worse off. My G5's network settings are screwing back up again.

I think I first need to figure out what's wrong with my network now, with the printer disconnected. I'm beginning to wonder if my router is going bad, and it was just one hell of a coincidence it showed symptoms when I installed this printer. It still doesn't sound right, but I'm completely lost and going in circles now.

Since the network problem I'm having now is happening with the printer disconnected, I'm going to start a new thread to focus on that problem and this all this printer stuff out of it.