tibook repair nightmare - lcd broke
 

hello all,

forgive the long mesage, but hopefully you can help me!

i recently dropped my 3-week old 800 tibook on some stone stairs and cracked the lcd screen.
besides the screen there is some cosmetic damage (paint chipping and dents - none of which affect the functionality of the machine) but otherwise all is functioning well (i tested and used the computer after the accident using an external monitor). you can see pictures and get more info here:
www.seeingandwriting.com/russianteacakes/

called apple. not under warrenty because i droped it and it will cost $1290 dollars to get a new screen. ok so be it. i am in switzerland so last week the powerbook went to the netherlands to the apple care center to get fixed. i was supposed get a fax from them yesterday to confirm the repair cost. didn't get anything from them so i called this morning and i was told that the computer is 'beyond economical repair' because not only is the display cracked but the 'MLB will not connect to the ethernet' and the 'HDD crashes in the finder' and it is on it's way back to me. this seems strange as everything besides the screen was working fine before it left my hands.
I received the computer 20 minutes later.
left in the computer was a cd from one of the install guys (burned copy of a os 9.2.2 insall cd).
i checked the computer again with an external display and as far as i can tell everything is working fine.
- ran fsck -y three times and everytime it says all is absolutely fine
- am able to connect to my network, mount servers, ping, get email, search the web, etc all through my ethernet cable.
- ran disk utility and all is ok
- nothing is crashing and my hardrive works and sounds great
-i am not able to run the hardisk repair utility disk as i can't use an external monitor with it and thus can not see the screen!

so what gives?! I have tried to get a more detailed description of what exactly the 'problems' are and i have been told that they don't have any more detailed information and i am not allowed to speak with the apple repair people directly.
now apple is telling me that that is what there 'technical' people analyzed and found and i am not a technical apple person. and most importantly that they will not repair or give me a new screen (remember that i am willing to pay the $1290 for the repair!).

i called apple back saying that there clearly must be a mistake as i can use the computer fine and see no problems other than the display. and now suddenly they are telling me that the problem is intermitant so i might not see it for a couple of days. honestly i think this is bs.
i do not want to pay for an estimate that doesn't match the problems of my computer.

Am i missing something here. have any of you ever had such problems with apple repair? is there anyway i can fix my powerbook screen? with an external monitor i can never boot from a cd because i can not see the screen! so in the future i can't reinstall the system, or do such types of things.

is there anything i can do to remedy this situation? or am i destined to use it as a server or email server or mp3 storage... etc.? anybody know of a way to boot from a cd and use an external display so that i can see what is going on?

thank you for bearing with me on this long thread. any advice greatly greatly appreciated.

best.

Bad luck man, what a nightmare!!

First, isn't video mirroring turned on by default in OS 10.1.5 => 10.2.1? Am I wrong to assume if you use an installation disc of this variety you can simply press the "c" key and boot up and display on the external monitor?

If that's true then you can spend the 1200 on a nice monitor and be chained to the desktop.

I wanted to get Apple to repair my broken Wallstreet G3 screen (display problem not a cracked screen), it was prohibitively expensive. Around $1000. So opted for a new TiBook and gave the Wallstreet to a local PC repair shop who, after the arrival of my TiBook, had repaired the screen. This was all in the US. I can't see a PC repair shop jumping to replace the Apple part, however if the screen is available as an apple part maybe they can get it for you and see if they can install it.

Try these guys:

http://applemacparts.com/cgi-bin/da-369c.cgi

update: the url I posted gives the wrong search page for the site, the part number is 661-2691, sorry.

They'll install parts for around 45 pounds haven't tried them out but if you think the mobo and HD and everything else i fine then this may worth it. The weird thing is that the 400 Mhz TiBook screen is more expensive than the 800 Mhz screen!!

thanks for the info bassi

so far when i boot with a cd pressing the c key with an external monitor i get no signal to the monitor. i have tried pressing the video mirror button; i have tried beginning with the monitor not connected and then connecting once the computer is booted. this is of course also true when i run in single user mode.
i don't know or understand what is required to support the external monitor (maybe someone could shed some knowledge), it sort of makes sense that in single user mode or with a bootable cd the monitor isn't supported... but i have no idea why!

at this point because apple thinks that there are other things wrong with the computer besides the display it will not repair the display at all. i have no chance of getting a new display.

even if they would repair it for me and i paid the $1200, i am debating if it is worth it as that is more than half of what i paid for the computer new! and tibook 800 prices are only going to drop as hopefully new powerbooks are released soon.

so far i have only been able to find used pb lcd's on line for about $1500 ! i'll check out the link that you provided.

crazy silly stuff.

I don't know about where you are, but here in the Styates, my Home Owners insurance would cover a large portion of the repair if it was damaged in my house.

consider...
 

i think apple sees this as a total loss. if they had the internal means to repair it, it would cost them $5,000.00 in time and materials just to get someone started on it.

therefore, they quickly "total" the asset, and why they give you some poloney excuse is beyond me. they merely needed to say, "it'll cost you $10,000.00" to repair it to cover all our expenses (peoples time, materials, labor)" and be done with it.

it is quickly seen as a major loss by apple to even approach establishing policy and infrastructure to manage repairing such damage, because no consumer would pay the price.

how i see it, anyhow.

That's why, if it's worth the risk, it may be worth outsourcing this repair.
Some local vendors would easily buy the part and install for 25% of the $5000. It's a bit risky, because if the screen works, you may eventually find another problem which makes the $1200 dollars a lost payment.

i couldn't agree with you more mervTormel.

i think that you are right on.

after researching a bit more, this is apparantly (obviously?) not just an apple problem. here in switzerland there was recently an article a major computer magazine that tested in 'consumer reports' style the process of getting laptops repaired by most all companies (not apple). every company turned out miserably bad, and unlike a desktop, there is nothing you can do with a laptop to fix it (you can't just get another display or usb keyboard) you're stuck. i think this is particularly so with apple who has clients who are so devoted to getting apple products (myself included) that they will come back and get another apple product in the future... despite these types of ridiculous scenerios.

i just wish they would be honest and say it costs us too much, or we no longer make the titanium parts, or whatever it is. rather than saying that my powerbooks ethernet connection isn't working and my hardrive is crashing when it clearly isn't.

in fact, i am writing this on my busted powerbook using an external monitor with an ethernet cable plugged in connected to my cable connection and my hardrive is sounding great.

any thoughts on creative uses for a powerbook 800 40gb 1gb ram without a screen? an email server? web server? file server? mp3 jukebox?

i am originally from the states but am currently living in switzerland. and no homeowners insurance here. thanks for the idea though.

i have found one place in england that seems like they can do it. but i think that you are right... i am now scarred that something else shows up in the future and i then really lose a lot more money.

i am starting to think that i should just find a creative use for the powerbook and start saving for another... that will take a long time though.

sad

does anybody know if it is possible to use an external monitor while booted from a cd.
could someone shed some light on how this works.
so far in single user mode and from a bootable cd i have not been successful at using an external monitor.

thank you.

Not sure this will work, but i will try:
1- install OS9 (if not installed)
2- start a classic program (simple text), go to OS9 apple menu, go to control panels and look at the setting in monitors.
3- make sure the video is mirrored
4- change the startup system from X to 9
5- reboot.
if this works install norton, techtool, diswarrior or any utility to check the powerbook, Last versions check osx from os9. then burn a cd with os9 and the aplications to make the cheks.
if it doesent work, maybe a friend with another ti can make the cd for you.
I have one with the same model so mail me if i can help you more.

thank you for the reply.
i had taken os9 off before the screen was broken (so i only have jaguar on) and now my problem is that i am not able to use any install cd or bootable cd because i can't use an external monitor (or haven't figured out how to yet) when booting from a cd and the powerbook screen is completely destroyed except for a small 1'' square corner in the top left of the screen.
so even if i have a repair cd that you are suggesting i am currently not able to use it because i can't use an external monitor with it and can use my powerbook screen.

is the video mirroring a hardware or software issue? when i first start up the computer with an external monitor it takes a while for the external monitor to show. the external monitor seems to show a signal after the boot image.

a reader emailed me and suggested that i use an external firewire harddrive with a running os installed and boot from that to then reinstall the system or run disk utilities, etc.

this sounds to me like a great solution. thank you

i am still interested to know how the external monitor functions with the powerbook. is it a hardware or software issue?
and is it possible to have use an external monitor in single user mode for example? so far i have been unsuccesful.
can anyone provide some information here?

thank you

Just thought I'd add a few bits of useless info to the thread ...

There are five basic tiers to an Apple portable repair:

Tiers 1 and 2 are really benign failures. Keyboard, hard drive, etc.

Tier 3 is serious stuff up to a display replacement. (Main logic board, some plastics.)

Tier 4 is hardcore failure or damage--usually damage--involving display replacement and (I believe) certain top case assembly replacements.

But there's one more, and yours probably falls into this category:

"Catastrophic". No kidding, they actually have a tier called "catastrophic". The last rep I spoke to who mentioned it described it in an example. He remembered a PowerBook that came into their dispatch center that was broken IN HALF.

In half.

As if someone had grabbed it on the sides and summoned the strength to break it in half over his or her knee.

That's "catastrophic". It usually involves, from what I've gathered, repairs that far exceed the cost of the machine itself. Yours is likely right there in the catastrophic realm.

In fact, I'll say that safely, as your damage reminds me of a Ti I looked at back at the beginning of the year. Its owner went hiking in the mountains and stuck the Ti in his backpack. He slipped, the pack slipped, and he watched his Ti tumble ... and tumble ... and tumble.

It was gnarly with a capital "holy s&#t!"

Anyway, I thought that might interest you. :-)


-/-
Mikey-San

lol !

thanks mikey-san that is pretty funny. i would love to see pictures of the tibook that was in half (and some reason as to why?!)
In some strange way it makes me feel better knowing that my powerbook is in the 'catastrophic' level. i just wish i had a better story to tell about how it happened... maybe surviving a polar bear attack sounds good ?!

no laptop is designed to indure a hard drop onto stone stairs (or some similar abuse) but this incident has brought to my attention some design flaws with the tibook. subsequently, i have read so many stories of paint chipping, screen keyboard marks, hinges failing, airport signal problems, etc. i realize that most of these problems are relatively small and easily fixable, however they are problems and design flaws (imho) nonetheless. i love many things about the tibook... but i look forward to seeing the next improved powerbook case design.

Then i think your only solution is get a CDRom from a friend, your friend must do a bootable image of his OS9.2 system folder and a copy of the repair utilities.
Before he burns the cd, he MUST BE SURE to set the monitor on MIRROR STATE, (control panels , monitors, etc) this way when he burns the cd the preferences for the monitor are set.
I have this kind of cd with OS 9.1 and can recover some crashed diferent macs with it from my original lime Imac, tangerines Ibooks, non g3 powermacs.
Maybe i can make one for you in one week ( afriend is near to buy one).

Sleep a possible fix?
 

Will the TiBook still go to sleep when you close the lid?

If so you can try to boot up from the CD
- then close to top putting it to sleep
- only THEN connect the external monitor
- open the TiBook again and it should recognize the external monitor. It may not be set to mirror, but at least it should "see" the external monitor.

The other possibility if you have a USB keyboard, would be to take advantage of clamshell mode.

After booting from the CD, and putting it to sleep, connect the external monitor, and THEN connect the USB keyboard (or mouse) (in that order). The computer should wake up, even with the screen still closed, and display the main screen on the external monitor.

YMMV.
Good luck.
(Making me doubt the extended AppleCare I just purchased!)
<penum6ra>

thank you for the idea penum6ra.

in fact it worked! i don't have a usb keyboard so i didn't think i had much chance but somehow with only a usb mouse it worked. i have a hard time repeating it though! it doesn't seem to want to work everytime.

i was able to run disc utilities and osx and os9 installer cd's.

i haven't tried in single user mode and have a feeling that it won't work there, but i don't really know. it would be nice to run fsck -y, but not such a big deal.

thank you

If you run the OSX disk utility from the installer CD it basically runs fsck on your HD.

of course. perfect! thank you all for your help. i appreciate it.

i have some instructions on how to install a replacement display on the powerbook g4... it looks intensive - taking much of the powerbook apart, but i am contemplating just installing a new display myself.
um... i just need to find a new display though!

anybody try this before?

I've done it many times. It's not for the weak, but after having done enough of them [display replacements], I'm not really bothered by them. I guess I'm not the right person to ask.

A tip I can give: Pay close attention to which screws go where in the display hinges (the ones actually securing the display--not the ones on the hinge covers ("clutch covers"), because one of them has a slanted head, and it needs to go back where it came from.

Normally, I'd say not to perform such a repair yourself, but you're waaaay out of warranty with this one anyway. ;-)


-/-

that is exactly what i am thinking too! i mean if i'm ever going to take a part a powerbook, now's the chance!


i noticed that too when reading through the manual. apple makes a special point about this particular screw.

the manual is pretty funny actually. reads a bit like a 'taking apart a powerbook for dummies'.

It would be cool if you could post pics of the replacement routine, if it works. I'm sure XLR8 and people here would be interested.

I thought replacing my TiBook HD was tough.

Good Luck.

You'll also need to pay attention to how the cables are routed around in the chassis. No reason to ruin another display. ;-)

-/-

thanks bassi.
i'd be happy to post pictures if people are interested.
as a side note: i like xlr8 a lot... the site helped me out when i was shopping for a hard drive and firewire enclosure. informative.
i love my new granite digital enclosure and wd special edition drive... fast fast.
if they're intersted in process photos of the replacement screen i'd be happy to oblige (sp?).
although it sounds like mikey-san would be a better model as he seems to be pretty experienced at this.

i think i might of found a place here in switzerland that may be able to get me a replacement display. cheaper than from adt too! ridiculous!
cross-me-fingers.

exactly... i am rather nervous about ruining the new display. every other line of the apple manual is a warning about how delicate the display wires are.

i am also worried about static electricity. should i use one of those static electricity wrist-band-things or are those a joke in the electronics world?! any recomendations?

thanks

Re: Sleep a possible fix?
 

very good one, sure i will use it.

Well, if the royalties are not too expensive:D

i have changed duo screens years ago, and it was too more dificult to open the top enclosure than change the screen itself.
I havent open a ti yet but be cautios with plastic glitches along the side of covers. In the duo times they break easly and then yo must replace the cover or do more "manualities" to keep the cover closed.
When yo get the cover off, you only need to remove the wires from the terminals, usually the top of the terminal must be upped a little to get the wire free.
Finaly be sure that your new screen is equivalent to the original, Apple has a lot of rev A,B,C things that seems the same but are not Interchangeable. If you put a rev B thing on a rev A one, you can break both. also it can be difficult to find the replacement.
About static, i always touch the ground pin in electrical outlets, dont know if the grounded outlets in switerland are the same than here in spain. Anyway i think the static could be dangerous for a memory or main board not for the screen.
Hope you can get your Ti full working soon.

thanks genimac,

on the tibook the replacement display is the whole screen including the metal case, so i don't have to worry about messing with the screen in it's own case. but in order to install the screen it looks like (judging by apples repair manual) that i need to take much of the powerbook apart:
- rib frame and heat exchanger
- memory
- dc-in board
- Battery
- Keyboard
- Bottom case
- Hard drive
- Optical drive
- Logic board
- PC card cage
- Secondary fan

etc.

so i am a bit concerned about all these parts with static electric.

thank you for the help.

the apple people didn't tell me any stories like that
 

after posting my initial comment here at macosxhints i have received many great suggestions both publicly on this forum as well as privately. One of these suggestions informed about AASP's (apple authorized service provider) - local stores that are certified to do apple repairs. yes, i realize that this is obvious... but i am in currently in switzerland where these types of places are not that common, especially for apple. Furthermore, i was told by apple that there was no one in switzerland that would be able to replace the tibook display. it turns out this is not so... following up on a generous tip i have found an AASP 20 minutes away! not only are they able to replace the display but they will do it faster and much cheaper than apple/adt's turn around time - 1 day (this definitely beats apple's 2 weeks... um possibly three 'we're not certain'). i went to the store today and they were so nice... what a change from dealing with apple repair these last 3 weeks. they have order the display from holland (the same place my tibook was a week ago when it went in to apple!) and it will arrive in about 3 days. and then the installation is one day. the really amazing thing is that it is cheaper than apple/adt:
a comparison:

new tibook 800 display -
apple/adt: $1200
local swiss AASP: $850

new bottom plate -
apple/adt: $800
local swiss AASP: $80

please add to the local swiss AASP's price $100 to install both parts.

no i did not make a mistake... those numbers are correct.

so in the end it looks like i will not be installing the display myself as i get a 3 month guarantee if i have the AASP install the parts.
the great news is... it seems that i will have a new display soon!! yaa

thank you all for your help, thoughts, and advice... i really appreciate it.

poultryfarm


small footnote:
after both tech guys were on the verge of tears after initially seeing my tibook one of the guys made me feel much better when he told me about a much more severely damaged tibook that had come in to the store... he said that the whole powerbook was bent lengthwise into a semicircle like a banana!
the apple people didn't tell me any stories like that.

wow! your tenacity paid off. way to go.

as for the cosmetic damage, think of it as adding character. it makes it truly yours. "it's not broke. it just lacks duct tape."

Congratulations
After all that, you sure enjoy your Ti more than ever.
;)

thanks guys! i am quite happy.
although one of my dissapointments: i am not able to keep the old display. they do a part exchange with apple.
ok not a big deal.


exactly. my paint chips and dings are growing on me. looks like i do some serious work with the book - um... maybe not, actually it looks more like i'm a nerdy klutz!

i love duct tape.

Interesting, I work for an AASP (Spcialist, actually), and we're not able to get the display by itself as a part from Apple. Wonder if it has anything to do with us being in the states...

Anywho, i'm glad you found a place to get your powerbook repaired. I can imagine the AASP employees' faces when they saw your titanium. I know how I would react.

I've only seen two TiBooks with broken screens before. One was obviously abuse, you could see a hand indention in the top of the powerbook, as if someone had pushed on the top hard or slammed it shut and kept pushing. The other, the right hinge siezed when opening the powerbook, and the torque snapped the screen.

Well done, enjoy your new "personalised" TiBook.

that seems strange... so for display repairs you must send it in then?
perhaps it does have something to do with being in europe. i have recently been informed about this two-tier system that exists: local AASP's and apple/adt; but apple does not advertise this (on the contrary). and apparently, if i understand correctly, here in switzerland it is only within the last two months or so that these local AASP's have been certified to do these repairs. when i was at the tech shop the guy simply and quickly logged on to a website found the part and placed an order no problem

that must have been a tight hinge!

Come to think of it, we might be able to order the display now. I haven't checked for a few months. I'll have to look into it tomorrow. But, last I knew, yes, display problems had to go to Apple.

That hinge was evil, I tell you. We couldn't move it with pliers. When I say siezed, I mean it. It would not budge.

the end
 

sorry to drag this thread out... but i couldn't resist the happy ending.

today i brought my laptop into AASP i found 30 minutes away. i was told that they would probably look at it and work on it in the afternoon or maybe tomorrow. i will be emailed when it's ready.

it took 30 minutes to take the train back and arrive at work. i checked my email and lo and behold the powerbook is ready!!! good god that was fast.
went during lunch to pick it up.
it's beautiful!
new display + new bottom case.
and no dead pixels!
i couldn't be happier.

they checked out the rest of the powerbook and confirmed my previous oppinion. Unlike apple/adt (who diagnosed it with a faulty hard drive and ethernet port and cracked top case) they found everything in perfect working order.
i paid much less than i would have at apple and unlike apple they were extremely nice and helpful.

thank you all again for the help and support!