So confused and lost...("real world" and job hunting)
 

I'm a senior mechanical engineering major, and I've been looking for jobs for about 3 months now. I have emailed my resumé to many companies, only to hear nothing back after several weeks. A lot of these companies even explicitly state not to follow up on your application -- they will contact you if they want further information. I see a common trend, too. The women engineering majors seem to have interviews lined up, 2-3 a week. I have worked closely with these engineers on projects, homework assignments, and studying and i know for a fact that i have a better GPA than them...yet they have trouble juggling their schedules with the amount of interviews they've got lined up. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy for them (we have become close friends over the past three years)...but even they see the trend.

I look for jobs on monster.com, careerbuilder.com, and through my University's career network in addition to contacting alumni who are working in fields that are of slight interest to me. I am less than thrilled with the kinds of opportunities that are out there. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that i am not at all convinced i want to pursue a technical career in the field of engineering. I'm pretty lost and overwhelmed at this point. I feel like a complete failure next to my girlfriend who is graduating from the business school here in 3 years (i probably should have done business :rolleyes: ) and already has a job secured at Goldman Sachs for next year. It's becoming a very real question for me what I should do if i do not find a job. Grad School? Possibly.

It's not like i'm barely passing my classes and have no experience, either. I had an internship last summer at a civil engineering firm and i'm chugging along with a 3.2 cumulative GPA, and made dean's list last year.

There is a possibility that my disdain for the field might be irrational, though. I have come to associate the real world of engineering with my professors. My professors aren't professors, they are researchers who teach in their spare time..and they let you know it. It's very discouraging year in and year out to deal with these types of teachers (although I have had two teachers in my undergrad career who were absolutely outstanding and i hold them in very high regards.)

I didn't mean for this to turn into a huge rant, but i guess it kinda went that way. Anyway, if anyone could offer some tips to a senior on job hunting and the real world...it'd be greatly appreciated.

I've been working in the IT industry for 10-years. Personally I think it's all about who you know. The majority of my jobs have been basically interview free...nepotism at it's best/worst.

That being said, as long as you know what you're supposed to know inside and out and can play well with others you'll be fine. Once you lad a gig somewhere you'll make some contacts in the industry. It just takes you getting your foot in the door somewhere.

Currently I'm working for a furniture company. They employ a bunch of mechanical engineers to ensure our vendors are selling us quality goods. They also have mechanical engineers to "proof read" the designers CAD drawings. I'm sure sometimes they design great pieces that are not mechanically sound.

Have you applied at Apple? You can be our mole :D

Interesting. Networking does seem to be everything. I almost forgot...lots of my peers seem to have no shortage of family members in the industry, but neither of my parents went to college and have nothing to do with engineering. I've been doing as much as i can with the alumni network, but I'm sure it helps a lot more when you've got the same last name ;)

Apple doesn't even send reps to our career fairs (only the Ivy's I think) but I should apply there...that'd be something ;)

My senior year was a decade and a half ago, but I vividly remember the stress I felt. At the time I , too, was preoccupied with what I hadn't, rather than what I had, accomplished.

Keep in mind that your degree will not require you to be a mechanical engineer in "the real world." And grad school might be an opportunity to explore and expand options. My brother earned a degree in mechanical engineering but went on to master in business - which has allowed him many more opportinities and he is now satisfied with his job and doing well. Two other siblings majored in engineering, but have successfuly moved on to different fields.

I took it a step further - after working happily for 12 years in a field only somewhat related to my degree. I gave up my business to become a full time dad. Life has a way of taking you in unexpected directions. Expectations and opportunities will change over time. Carefully consider your options and motivations and decisions will become easier (to make, and to live with.) I hope that doesn't sound too trite.

Good luck,

j

its kinda universal....

you get a degree... and what does EVERY employer want.... a degree AND experience.... bit of a catch22

I started working in London on ZERO pay......! Just to get experience..... and nobody can do that for long...... I worked on Engineering Magazine for 8 months a few years back.... and it was really apparent that there are not a massive amount of oppertunities in Enginnering (in the UK at least)

You will get there eventually.... but perhaps you need to call in a few favours... or do a few weeks work experience to get your foot in the door, once you work in a company and they see how good you are they will often take you on.

I have a few mates that do Engineering for F1 teams.. but thats in the UK and their jobs are pretty sort after!

Its taken me 7 years outta Uni to be a Senior Designer, and that was due to luck and being in the right place at the right time.... some of my friends are still only just now getting to do what they trained in.

Perhaps your best option is to have a sex change :D

seriously though.... stick with it.... the right thing will turn up.

While that can seem pretty hopeless, 90 days is actually not a very long time to look for a job, particularly this early in the academic year. The rush typically starts early in the winter term when corporate budgets are firming up.

We've had this discussion before as I recall -- you said you were thinking of quitting ME and going into CS instead because you really didn't want to screw around with nuts & bolts (pardon the pun). There was a chorus of advice suggesting that you stick it out then, including mine which was based on nearly 40 years experience as an ME prof at SUNY@B, MIT, and then here in Canada as a Dept. Head, and finally Dean of Engineering. I've been retired now for nearly 5 years, but still do some consulting.

Reading your opening lament, I see that you haven't really warmed up to ME in the interim and seeing your interests here in this forum, you seem to have stuck to your CS preferences. Possibly your lack of enthusiasm shows through in your applications.

Now might be the time to consider a Master's in CS - you'd probably require a remedial beginning, but could get one in two years, I'll bet. That's a hot combo - a lot of Engineering firms like CS/ME and CS/EE candidates. Whatever you do, try to focus on what you like to do - I can't imagine a fate worse than a job you don't like - 2000+ hours a year grinding along.

MBH, NovaScotian's ideas sound excellent.

Thanks for all the replies!

NovaScotian, how many more years of schooling would that entail then do you think?

So I'd have a BS in ME and a Master's in CS when done with grad school?

Really? What teams?

ones an Engineer for BAR, and the other is head Engineer for what was Midland...

Choose your dream, nurture your strengths
 

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First: MBHockey, you make a great impression! And I haven’t even met you. Use your positive and outgoing personality to your advantage. :cool: Three months is not much time...

Second: I’m convinced NovaScotian is right on the mark in several respects. Your lack of enthusiasm for certain aspects of Engineering may well show through in your application; those sort of things are hard to hide. And the CS/ME combo he’s suggesting sounds like a real winner! whether you go for it now or take a break and get a year’s work experience first.

Third: I suggest you feel your way forward. Ask yourself questions like: “If I could create my own job – anything I want – what would it be?” Set your eyes on that dream even if it seems distant.
It’s a bit like driving; the journey is likely to be far more enjoyable and effective if you lift your eyes to the horizon, instead of focusing on the asphalt 20–30 feet in front of the hood. (not saying you do)

Photek and all the other posters, too, put things in perspective.


I have a double major in Art and Mathematics. Fellow students at UC Davis told me I would have to choose, but I’m glad I refused. I now make my living as a copywriter, translator and editor.

The first job I got in Norway was as an information consultant, writing user manuals etc for an IT company. I got that job after I wrote a “user manual” for the pencil. That surprised them and they hired me, despite my very obvious lackings in IT skills and knowledge, written Norwegian, etc.

In fact one of the Directors there told me that one of my key strengths was my ignorance (!), which enabled me to ask relevant questions… ;)


Find out what your strengths (and value) are and make them visible to the people you want to hire you. Some of those strengths are very visible in your posts. :)

Best of luck!

– ArcticStones
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I think it is who you know, then experience, then qualifications (certs, degree, etc)

I have been in the IT field for 7 years now. I started out as a lowly tech with no experience other than as a hobbyist. Building PCs and fixing them for friends and family, and was self taught. I was in Art school when I landed my first job as a tech out in Denver. I ended up not liking art school, the design industry, etc. It just seemed too rollercoasty (lol not sure if that is a word!) to me. So, I got a bunch of certs, learned other things like Linux and Mac platforms, and basically used the internet and hands on experience to expand my knowldege. I got my second job off of recomendation. I knew someone who worked at this place and when an opening hit they interviewed me and pretty much hired me on the spot.

I have also had several people contact me directly and offer me jobs because they didn't want to post it and go through the grueling process of interviews tons of applicants and then pick one. The company I sub contract for on the side (http://www.conexio.com) contacted me directly and asked me if I would be their onsite mac person in the KC Metro area. I was recomended by someone I had worked with in the past.

Networking is a huge part of it. I know when ever I have a client that is big in whatever field they may be in, I tend to go the extra mile so they remember me as being a good hard worker.

In the end after you get some expereince college degrees aren't everything. I don't think I will ever go back to school to get a technology degree, though I would go back to school for training classes on new platforms and technologies. Not to mention once you get in somewhere a lot of companies offer training, and if they don't ask for it. Most of the time they will spring for it if it is job related. It is more wise to invest in a current employee than to hire another one and train them from scratch.

Also, don't be high strung about your first job. I know people who have turned down entry level positions because they didn't want to be entry level, even though they had little to none experience.

Hang in there and make sure you meet everyone you can in your field. I am at the point now where I am happy enough with my current situation that I would require a certain amount of money to leave. Everytime I get a job offer I tell them I won't leave my current job unless they pay me X amount of dollars. Most of the time they will check with accounting and what not and see what they can do, but never come through. They'll up the salary a few thousand but not get it where I want it.

Also, put down every attribute you have. Bilingual, computer skills, web design skills, bo staff skills (sorry couldn't resist), etc. Everything you know and do is an attribute you possess that is at your companies disposal.

Good luck.

To answer MBH's "How Long" question, that depends a lot on what you've concentrated on during your ME program. Best bet: boogie over to the CS department at your school with your grade sheet and ask! You've got good (and, I suspect, accelerating) grades, Dean's List and all, and you've an obvious interest.

A word about combos: In tracking grads from the schools where I taught ME, I've seen:
ME/CS - 1) working for Litton Industries programming autopilots and heads-up displays; 2) working for a company that writes elaborate plug-ins for animating AutoCAD building construction. 3) developing a line of specialty computer-based design tools for CAD (last project a parts scheduling system for a firm that builds boats in Turkey).
ME/Law: a patent attorney.
ME/MBA: 1) Optimizing the merchandise distribution system for a large hardware chain; 2) Optimizing instrumentation maintenance schedules and digital control programming for a chain of paper mills. 3) managing a home heating fuel distribution center. 4) Owns and operates a sheet metal company building specialty stainless steel food processing machinery (The company originally built stainless tanks - he joined them to build control systems, then bought the owner out when he retired).
ME/MD: an orthopedic surgeon (bone doc specializing in repair of injured hands).
ME+Master's ME: mangaging the design and production of carbon fiber handles for hockey sticks by pultrusion.

A word about MEs who didn't go into engineering: The thing to remember here is that ME is probably the most 'general' of engineering studies, and that what you've really learned has less to do with machine elements, thermodynamic systems, heat transfer, fluid mechanics, vibration and control than it does with learning to solve multi-disciplinary real-world problems in an organized way. Over half of all MEs are no longer practicing front-line ME by the time they're 40 - they're in management.
1) Naval Officer in a shipyard repair depot;
2) Manages a large, popular bar;
3) designs prosthetic devices and one-off wheelchairs;
4) Manages the specialty refrigeration section of an HVAC company;
5) Teaches math in high school.
6) Owns and manages a hardware chain franchise.
7) Owns and runs a shingle mill.

Rokushaku bo? Han bo?
 

Don't often see that. tlarkin, are you training?

Sorry MBHockey, had to ask that.

The advice given above is outstanding. Seeing the regard with which members of this forum think of you, tells me that if you hang in there, you'll see success. As a physical therapist for 28 years, many of them in managment (I'm a recovering administrator), in the short time I've been reading posts in this forum, I can tell that you will be an asset to whomever employs you. Though it appears daunting at the moment, persevere.

As my old sensei in ninpo would say, "Keep going!"

Thank you for all the kind words everyone. I am going to have a meeting with my dept. chair this week (hopefully) to discuss all of this stuff.

Really, thanks for all the support.

I do train kung fu, but not with any weapons atm, I was referring to Napolean Dynamite.

However, due to time/money I haven't been training the last 7 months or so. I want to get back into it, but thats off topic.

I just got a call from an IT firm, Excelacom, asking me I'd like to interview with them this Friday!

I'm not sure why IT firms are interviewing mechanical engineers, but i guess i'll find out!

I'm a little worried though, they list the qualifications as this:

I don't know Java, SQL, or C++...oh well!

Not unusual in my experience - Engineers are known to be problem solvers and it sounds like this job involves on-site problem solving.

Another vote for Networking.

My first job came from a phone call from a fraternity brother who had graduated 6 months before me. His consulting company had landed a large job that they needed to quickly staff with a lot of relatively inexpensive people (translated - inexperienced & on the job training).

I got some opportunities to dazzle the client during the project. That went so well the client kept asking for me back for other projects, by name. A couple of years of this and the client hired me direct.

I'm just happy someone wanted to actually interview me :D

Any advice going into an interview?...i've never had one.

My first piece of advice is to be honest - don't try to impress and don't put yourself down either. They want:

You either have some of those skills or don't, are willing to acquire them on the job or can't.

An interview is a two-way street, remember. They've outlined what they want in the quote above, but not how they expect you to apply those skills. Is there on-the-job training for specialty knowledge the job requires? What do they mean by 'Programming Languages'? Presumably you're familiar with Excel, can attest to being a self-starter, obviously have communication skills, and view yourself as a team player. Be honest about what else you know.

And keep in mind that we have a bit of an Employee's market going on here (if I recall). Nobody will just hand you a job, but you have plenty of options. Go in with a real intent to see if you even want the job, there are quite a few others around.

And another thing - money! Find out what graduating MEs with no experience are getting (ask your trusted classmates with jobs) and don't hesitate to ask for that much or a bit more. Remember that the company interviewing you has already made a significant investment in the folks being interviewed by sending the rep. They'd like to get on with it - they don't want the process to drag out, so a few bucks extra isn't going to break the deal. Don't be greedy - and don't bring it up as the first item, but don't forget that the reason you're going to work is to get paid.

Will do...thanks for all the help!

For the record, I seriously question the wisdom of allowing anyone – especially a first-time poster – to launch a survey like this.

Furthermore, the end beneficiary here is a commercial website.
Is this something the Forum should support?

– ArcticStones

Probably not.

So, how did it go?
 

How did the interview go?

Hey!

It went well. I was kind of nervous, but I think I handled myself fine. I spoke confidently, friendly, and honestly. I actually got a call a week later asking if i could make it to Philly for the 2nd round of interviews!

They told me for the first interview, they interviewed 100 people out of 850+ based on their resumés so that was pretty cool!

So i'll have to trek to Philly the day of my last final exam for the semester, since I told them i couldn't make it the previous week because of tests (the HR lady told me she didn't think it would be possible but called me the next day saying it could be done!)

Overall, it's been a pleasant experience. The only thing is a lot of my friends are getting offers for much more money than this place is offering. The HR lady i originally spoke to told me starting salary is around $42k/year. But all the offers i've heard of from engineering companies are anywhere from 55k-70k, so i'm not really sure what to think at this point.

I'm still just glad to make it to the second round though :)

That's great. Now you'll be less nervous for this next go-round, and for any other interviews that come down the pike.

Congrats, hope the last round goes well for you ;).

Good effort and I also trust that things will work out.

Money: It is easier to find a better paying job when you have a job.....

I also think that NovaScotian's first post advice was spot on. And don't forget to spit shine those shoes.... :-)

FWIW, I did a 5 year engineering apprenticeship as a Fitter-Turner (UK Ministry of Defence, Navy), doing the tickets at day-release and evening college. 21 years later, I am sitting in Thailand managing a small handful of millions of dollars of other peoples' (offshore) money, so you really cannot know where your life will take you.

Engineering > Portfolio Management? Go figure.

Best of luck with it.
Gavin

Thanks everyone! :)

Unfortunately, I got a call saying they won't need me to come in for the 2nd round after all. Not really sure what happened, they just said they don't need people with my background at this time. I wonder why they told me to come in for the 2nd round to begin with, then? Oh well...hopefully there will be more!

Ill keep you posted ;)

What happened is quite straight-forward (I've hired a lot of people in a variety of settings). They offered a few second visits, prioritizing them in order of closeness of fit to their requirements as judged in the first interview. Someone higher on the list accepted the job. Those remaining on the list got notices like the one to you.

I agree with Nova Scotian. You impressed them enough to get them to offer a second round, despite your background not meeting their needs. Had they not found someone who had, you would have been not just on the short list, but the extremely brief list. Good job.

Money isn't everything
 

Don't worry about how much other people are making, it will only depress you further. Be excited that you will receive and offer and then you can always negotiate a salary.

You don't want to begin your career on a money roller coaster. Besides, once you gain experience, you can command more money.

If you are going to worry about something, worry about doing your best and getting the job done on time and do the job to the best of your ability. Put in long hours, study off hours, and continue to educate yourself.

In terms of money, don't be short sighted because you can be making $42K to start but be making $110K ten years from now. Think long term and where you want to be.

Keep in mind that the pay in engineering has one of the largest pay range of any profession that I have ever looked at. I have been in companies where you have two people doing the same job, but there pay is separated by $60K. It all in how you negotiate.

kind regards
RLC

One way to look at the salary issue is this: If you go to a large company and there's a good chance that you'll stay there for a career, then your lifetime salary will be based on an incremental series of raises compounding on the first offer accepted. In return, you'll have job security (to the extent that that ever exists), and probably very good benefits. If, on the other hand, you take the course of zig-zagging up the ladder by looking for better positions when advancement where you are seems to have stalled, then first salary won't matter as much as performance at each level, but because you've switched a lot, benefits suck.

My brother spent his whole career in one industry, but he rose to become executive VP of a large company in that sector by doing a really good job at the bottom in a large company, making a big jump up by switching to a small one, excelling there, jumping laterally to the same position with more money in a large company, then another big jump up the ladder in a move to a smaller company in the next higher position, etc. Not much security and no great pension after the fact, but a very lucrative career.

I opted for a university professor's career, rose through the ranks in the normal progression, always paid less than engineers in industry, but had great job security (tenure), excellent benefits, solid pension plans, etc. I rose through the ladder: Assistant, Associate, Full Professor, Head of Department, Dean of Engineering, Principal of a College by doing a good job, and I loved the university environment and ran a small consulting company on the side. My lifetime gross was certainly less than my brother's.

Looking back over a few beers, both of us are content, both of us satisfied then and now. Money isn't everything in the equation. Satisfaction is more important.