mac pro discussion...
 

so i was reading the specs off apple's official website

dual core xeons?

Can't say i am overly impressed, with them using the long architecture of those processors.

I will have to wait to see one personally, but I am surprised apple didn't stick with something more up to date and cutting edge. Not to mention, in most cases the opteron has out performed the xeon.

Still, I will hold judgement until we actually get one in to look at it and test it out.

thoughts?

I think the xeon is a pretty solid processor, plus the price-point is lower.. which means better savings passed onto us! :rolleyes:
Plus, these are the new Woodcrest versions, so not as long in the tooth as you might think.

ya i know the new version of the processor is in the mac pro (that came out late 05 early 06 - or abouts) but still i remember the opteron just kicking the living crap out of it.

Plus open GL performance has kind of sucked w/ the xeon class processors for a long time, which is why im skeptical. I mean the xeon is a good number cruncher, so rendering audio/video professionally will be okay, but rendering audio/video in real time for multimedia purposes the xeon has never really led over other processors that way. To me, that kind of takes away from the macintosh experience. We have many HP proliant xeon based servers at my work, and they are solid servers, and that is how I see the xeon processor, a server. Not necessarily an end user product IMHO.

I was hoping for a new processor based off the duo core or something similiar.

Oh, well you could be right yellow, and I will wait until I actually get to see one and play with it. I agree with you on it being solid, I just don't know if its going to perform like apple is boasting in their advertisment on their webpage.

I cannot disagree with that... particularly given Apple history on claims that our processor X kiks the crap out of processor Y, whether true or not, or whether eventually they end up putting processor Y in their boxes. :rolleyes:


But can you blame them? No marketing exec would allow 'well, processor X is pretty fast, but freankly not as fast as processor Y doing Z'.

I think another important part of the Xeon structure is 64-bit.

ya, it is, but how much advantage do the apps and the OS actually take over 64bit?

I am sure it probably out performs the PPC G5 processor, but compared to everything else on the market I am not so sure.

I have seen dual duo core PCs with SLI or crossfire set ups claiming to be the fastest PC on the market and ranging in the 4k price zone (dual pcie video cards get expensive, esp top of the line ones). Apple's answer to SLI was DDL, but that never seemed to take off.

Do they have any sort of DDL (or similiar?) support in their new desktops?

I don't know..
I was rather disappointed that the don't support SLI. Just up to 4 GPUs for multiple monitors. Yay.

I know that the math people at most Universities will be happy that it's 64 bit. Since Apple's are meant to be educational machines in a lot of ways...

I think the other slightly weird part is that the Mac Pros are pretty much the same beast as the new XServes, just without the 1U form factor. But then I guess all previous XServes were more or less the same as the Desktop verison. Sort of. To me these seem much closer.

The Xeon is no slouch and it does make a great (though expensive) desktop processor. It's not as good as the Opteron, definitely, but Apple chose to make their deal with Intel. Certainly Intel's mobile processors are better than AMD's, so it's a compromise.

I use a lot of 1U Opteron servers and really am impressed by them. I've used them as a desktop just to play with and they truly do fly (dual Opterons with 8GB of memory and the hypertransport memory bus...mmmmm...). Plus they're cheap, surprisingly so.

But anyway the Xeons do seem like a good choice for a high end workstation, which has the same needs as a server really, outside of the graphics subsystem. I think the product line is far better differentiated now than it used to be, and Apple has a broader set of choices for the needs of the consumer. Now there is a clear distinction between an iMac and a PowerMac/Mac Pro, where before I felt it was a bit blurry.

In a completely unrealted note, I have a pile of PC guts on my desk here at work in order to build my first ever (non-work related) PC (for gaming). Of course, the case arrives tomorrow, so I've got to just ignore the mysterious inner workings crying out to me for release from their plastic packaging! :)

Hmm..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these Xeons have nothing in common at all with what used to be the Xeon.

They're of the same ilk as the Yonah processors, based on the Core architecture, NOT the long P4 architecture. These are up there with the fastest Opteron-class processors -- although ultimately which is fastest will be up for debate.

Make no mistake -- these aren't what we knew as Xeons.

Full info on the whole platform is available here:
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/06/26...on_opteron_uk/

[edit]
That's exactly what these are. And then a bit more.

[edit, the second]

In fact, if I read the article right, these are the first Core 2 Duo-based processors to be released, and they're in the Mac Pro.

Two Mac Pro questions:

1. With two optical drives i the Mac Pro, does that mean my long-held goal to digitize every CD in my collection can go faster if I rip two CDs at once, or can iTunes handle that? Has anyone connected multiple CD readers to a Mac and gotten iTunes to rip 'em all at once?

2. Apple claims that the Xeon is so much more efficient per watt that they could stuff more goodies in the case because they were able to junk the nine-fan cooling system. But does anyone know if that makes the Mac Pro louder than the G5, or is still remarkably quiet?

1) I seriously doubt iTunes could do that. Maybe if you ran separate instances of iTunes simultaneously, each pointing at an optical drive.
2) I know a dude on another forum who already got his MP. I'll ask.

According to him:

While I find it hard to beleive there's no fans in it.. it does appear to be pretty darned quiet. Of course, he's problably not ripping DVDs quite yet.

Wow.

which is a:

Dual 2GHZ G5 Rev. A / 2.5GB of Ram / Radeon X800 XT 256mb / 74GB WD Raptor 10,000 RPM

Mac Pro is a:

2 x 2.66 Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon / 1GB of 667MHz DDR2 RAM / Stock nVidia 7300 / 250GB SATA2

EDIT: Personally that looks more like 3x as fast to me. :)
No one said video editors were good at math. LOL.

The back view on the Apple site clearly shows a big honkin' circle cutout on the back panel which one would assume is a large diameter fan. Which may not matter too much if reports are true that it's still quiet!

Just wanted to make sure we're not facing a very nice machine that turns out to be another wind-tunnel jet screamer like those G4s were.

Well, he's not a hardware guy, as far as I can tell.
I suspect when he opened it up there were no visible fans poking him in the face, but we all know there has to be fans in there somewhere.

But he insists it's quiet, even during the compressor test above.

.
Quick question: I know the Xeon takes 4 internal drives.
But wouldn’t it be enhanced by a couple of eSata ports?
Just wondering...

It's only the first version. I wouldn't be surprised if in some future hardware update Apple makes eSATA ports standard across the whole Pro desktop and notebook line, finally ditching FW800 for good. Besides...there are some slots there.

Let us not forget, in the last year Apple has finalized Tiger for Intel (apparently 85,000 lines of code), moved their whole product line to intel and developed a major portion of a new version of OSX. All the while finding time to taunt Windoze. Let's not expect too much too soon, eh? :).

I can't wait to see what innovations they come up with next year.

Ya, I'll believe it when I see it, but thats good to hear...

I agree to some extent, the intel based chipsets kind of suck in comparison to how well other chipsets (VIA for example) perform on the AMD side. So, its not just processor. Intel has a good package but i have had tons of problems with the intergrated video chipset, the intel 915 chipset, and other shoddy onboard chips intel makes (audio and USB). The processor itself may be better on intel on the mobile side, but that doesn't make the rest of the system better. I would say the mbpros probably have really good chipsets in them but the reg old mac books (entry level) are no better if not worse in some scenerios.

Does Apple design it's own logic boards?

Handbrake test:


Response:

He again noted that the MacPro was "silent", all he could hear were the HDs.

He did a geekbench test (297.9), but I don't put much stock in it because it is not multi-CPU aware (yet).

Yes but the outsource companies to help them design them and make them. So, technically yes they do design their logic boards, but they do not design the chipsets, the wifi cards, the video cards (video chipset) or the processor, or the bridge on the logic board.

Drives & Memory
 

I'm curious about two things:

The drives. Do the enclosures for cable-free chasis installation accomodate any S-ATA drive?

The memory. Are these new FB chips with heat sinks settled on top a new standard that will soon become available through other (much less expensive) RAM dealers? (ie - dealram.com, etc)

Jacques

Indeed, here's how the chassis looks like:

Here are the specs:

"DIMMs for Mac Pro must fit these specifications:
667 MHz, FB-DIMMs
72-bit wide, 240-pin modules
36 devices maximum per DIMM
Error-correcting code (ECC)
Memory from older Macintosh computers is not compatible with Mac Pro."

There are two RAM riser-cards with four slots each in the MacPro:

voldenuit

Thanks much for the replies! The chasis, makes sense. It seems to be implied that all FB chips (as by default design) include heat sinks, so it's a go to buy both of these things through less expensive sources.

I suppose you found the illustrations via Apple's website? I'll try to hunt them down..

= )

Jacques