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-   -   Maybe the coolest keyboard ever. (http://hintsforums.macworld.com/showthread.php?t=56367)

pantherman13 05-30-2006 02:29 PM

Maybe the coolest keyboard ever.
 
http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/

This thing looks really cool. I can't wait for it to be released.

solipsism 05-30-2006 03:25 PM

I saw that site a solid year or two ago. The pics they are showing are photoshopped. I don't think the technology is ready, though I do agree it's pretty cool. I would love to be able to hit the ALT or FN key and have the keys alter instantly.

Jay Carr 05-30-2006 05:04 PM

I'm not really sure what the point would be. It was hard enough memorizing my qwuerty so that I no longer have to look down. Why would I want my system to change up my keys? I mean, there's got to be some reason, right? Can someone tell me what it is?

ArcticStones 05-30-2006 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zalister
I'm not really sure what the point would be. It was hard enough memorizing my qwuerty so that I no longer have to look down. Why would I want my system to change up my keys? I mean, there's got to be some reason, right? Can someone tell me what it is?

Well, according to afficionados, the Dvorak keyboard layout enables people to write significantly faster than the Qwerty layout. Few people know that the keyboard almost all of us use actually was designed to make us type more slowly!

solipsism 05-30-2006 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zalister
I'm not really sure what the point would be. It was hard enough memorizing my qwuerty so that I no longer have to look down. Why would I want my system to change up my keys? I mean, there's got to be some reason, right? Can someone tell me what it is?

Reason One (probably the most useful for the average American):
The '??ç??˜µ??÷åß?ƒ©???¬…æœ?´®†¥¨ˆø?“‘«¡™£¢?§¶•ªº–?¸?Ç??˜Â¯?¿ÅÍÎÏ?ÓÔ?ÒÚÆŒ„´‰?Á¨ˆØ?”’»?€‹›??‡°·‚—±`' keys don't appear on the keyboard. By depressing the Alt/Option key the keyboard would instantly change it's display to accommodate for the new choices.
Reason Two:
Many non-English languages have several additional characters, many that should be represented on the keyboard. This is especially true for Asian languages. A toggle key could easily change the entire keyboard to accommodate for these requirements instead of difficult memorization or unique key combinations.
Reason Three:
When training children to type without looking, an instructor could blank-out the keyboard display therefore forcing the child to not look at the keys. Also, an instructor could change the keys to cursive as a teaching tool. Or perhaps, if one is learning, say Latin or Greek, the keys could be set only show the valid characters. A program could even instruct a young child how to type by illuminating and flashing the appropriate keys for the task.
Reason Four:
The keyboard's font could reflect the actual font being used on screen. A button could be used to easily and quickly switch between fonts.
Reason Five:
If you are a gamer and utilize the keyboard for certain functions, the usable keys could illustrate their actual use while the non-useful keys are greyed out.
Reason Six:
If a keyboard's OLEDs are software controlled then one keyboard will suffice for everyone and a broken key is universal to any other same size key (assuming it's the key and not the keyboard).

solipsism 05-30-2006 05:53 PM

Excellent Point , Arctic Stones. If the user could controll the keybaord layout, even at work or at a public terminal, perhaps society could finally pull away from the Qwerty layout.

blubbernaut 05-30-2006 11:58 PM

Another reason: keyboard heavy apps like FCP and Avid benefit greatly from custom colour-coded keyboards (that are available like this, and this), but you have to put up with it for your day to day use also, or swap keyboards.

Plus it looks pretty cool on it's own merits...would look good in front of an aluminium Apple Display

AHunter3 05-31-2006 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticStones
Well, according to afficionados, the Dvorak keyboard layout enables people to write significantly faster than the Qwerty layout. Few people know that the keyboard almost all of us use actually was designed to make us type more slowly!

I think that's an urban legend. The qwerty keyboard was not designed to make us type more slowly, it was designed so that the keys used most often (and the key combos used most often) were not arrayed in physical patterns that would tend to make the long keybars lock against each other. But not by intentionally making typists type slower, but by arranging the keys so as to not interfere with each other as much.

I learned to type on an old manual upright, and the keys that would lock against each other weren't necessarily adjacent keys — more often, keys from opposite sides of the U-bend key-valley coming in from very similar angles. I seem to recall "e" and "k", and "c" and the comma-key, being bad for snagging each other and locking up.

I don't believe there's any solid evidence that Dvorak is significantly faster than qwerty, even if it was designed to be so. (Might be slightly more likely for right-handed folks...qwerty is one of the few lefty-centric norms in our society!)

ArcticStones 05-31-2006 01:54 AM

Qwerty - design considerations slow everyone down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AHunter3
I think that's an urban legend. The qwerty keyboard was not designed to make us type more slowly, it was designed so that the keys used most often were not arrayed in physical patterns that would tend to make the long keybars lock against each other. But not by intentionally making typists type slower, but by arranging the keys so as to not interfere with each other as much.

It is not an urban legend. I would be happy to send you a lengthy article I published on the Dvorak keyboard -- but it it’s in Norwegian. I’m not saying that Qwerty was designed with the expressed aim of slowing people down; that would be silly. But look at what you yourself wrote, underscored for emphasis. The net effect of that design consideration is precisely to make people type more slowly!

From Wikipedia:
"As of 2005, Barbara Blackburn is the fastest typist in the world, according to The Guinness Book of World Records. Using the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard, she has maintained 150 word/min for 50 min, 170 word/min for shorter periods of time, and has been clocked at a peak speed of 212 word/min. Blackburn failed her typing class in high school, first encountered the Dvorak keyboard in 1938, quickly learned to achieve very high speeds, and occasionally toured giving speed-typing demonstrations during her secretarial career."

She has held that record for a long time. If you search the Forum, there are many other good references to Dvorak.

AHunter3 05-31-2006 10:29 AM

The wording "was designed to make us type more slowly" reads to me as "they deliberately set out to make us type more slowly", not "the design of the thing has the effect of causing us to type more slowly".

The urban-legend part of it is that the former interpretation is often bandied about as fact, i.e., that, in order to prevent the keys from locking up, they created a keyboard layout that would force typists to slow down, and, as a consequence of slower typing, fewer locked keys would transpire. And that's not true, that's not what happened. Their approach to prevent keys from locking had nothing to do with intentionally slowing typists down, and, in fact, qwerty has pretty good comfortable & even speed-friendly locations for the most commonly used keys and key-combos, even though the key layout was not dictated purely by a concern for speed.

I'm not denying that the Dvorak keyboard was designed to help typists type faster, whereas the qwerty arrangement was designed to keep keys from locking, and certainly not claiming that that is an urban legend.

ArcticStones 05-31-2006 12:26 PM

Key lock-up on non-adjacent Qwerty keys
 
.
Allan, point taken. :) I should have formulated myself as you indicated.
I have a diagram somewhere that shows frequency distribution of Qwerty vs Dvorak, a very convincing case for the latter. I’ll try to dig it up and post it.

Your point of character combinations is an important one. However, I have many times experienced key lock-up on a typewriter with non-adjacent keys. In fact, sometimes the only way for me to avoid lock-up was to slow down my typing -- and I suspect that I am not the only one who has experienced this.
.

AHunter3 06-01-2006 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticStones
However, I have many times experienced key lock-up on a typewriter with non-adjacent keys

Yep:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHunter3
learned to type on an old manual upright, and the keys that would lock against each other weren't necessarily adjacent keys — more often, keys from opposite sides of the U-bend key-valley coming in from very similar angles. I seem to recall "e" and "k", and "c" and the comma-key, being bad for snagging each other and locking up.

I also vaguely recall sometimes having problems with keys above each other vertically on the keyboard, especially at the far ends: "a" and "q", or "a" and "z", perhaps.

jase71ds 02-04-2007 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHunter3 (Post 297418)

I don't believe there's any solid evidence that Dvorak is significantly faster than qwerty, even if it was designed to be so. (Might be slightly more likely for right-handed folks...qwerty is one of the few lefty-centric norms in our society!)

I've seen QWERTY defended vigorously (not that you are doing this) and it blows my mind.

Let's assume that we can press a key that is directly under our fingers quicker than we can press a key that we have to reach for... Then Dvorak wins over QWERTY -- period.

Question: In an average day, what percentage of your typing requires the use of a semicolon or colon? All literate English writers use these keys, but do we use them as often as we use the "s" key?

Personally, I'd rather have the "s" key in the semicolon's place -- which is where Dvorak puts it. The key layout is just MUCH more efficient, and more efficient equals less finger hopping and arguably better accuracy and speed.

Try Googling the following: Dvorak fastest typist in the world
Hint: She doesn't use QWERTY.

You should try this exercise (copy and paste a current event article or something)
http://dvzine.org/info/input.html

Jase.

6502 02-05-2007 04:32 AM

Back to the original topic... the mini version of the keyboard has been out for awhile... same technology, but only 3 buttons.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/88ee/

So, while it may be vaporware, the full-size keyboard does have a basis in a working device.

CAlvarez 02-05-2007 11:54 AM

Quote:

Question: In an average day, what percentage of your typing requires the use of a semicolon or colon? All literate English writers use these keys, but do we use them as often as we use the "s" key?
This I don't get at all. I think the 's' is in a better place than the semicolon. The 'z' and '/' are the hardest for me to hit, and also probably least used. Dvorak probably has some advantages, but the 's' example is a poor one, at least to me.

schneb 02-05-2007 01:27 PM

I like the vision of this keyboard, but as noted before, this has been around for almost 2 years, so for me, this is indeed an Urban Legend.

What Apple needs to do is actually build the thing! Even if the keys were black and white, it would be a help. Especially when using FinalCut Pro.

jase71ds 02-05-2007 01:31 PM

My apologies in advance for adding to the thread derailment...

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAlvarez (Post 355155)
This I don't get at all. I think the 's' is in a better place than the semicolon.

My point was that the semicolon should NOT be on the home row.

I switched to Dvorak in earnest 9 months ago. At first I tried to use Dvorak at home and QWERTY at the office. Some are adept enough to pull this off, but what I found is that my QWERTY suffered and my Dvorak skills stagnated such that I excelled on neither and I was mediocre on both.

(I envy those who are "bilingual" and claim to be fast on both)

What was interesting about my "ambidextrous" experiment is that when I was typing both methods, I truly found Dvorak more enjoyable -- the finger hopping is noticeable less, and for someone on the verge of RSI / CTS this is important.

Anyway, Dvorak did the world a huge favor IMO -- it's a pity that we are in a rut and still use such an inefficient keyboard layout as QWERTY. My children are homeschooled, and while they are too young to yet take typing, my oldest recently saw a QWERTY keyboard and said, "Dad! The keys are all in the wrong place!"

Jase.

jonjonc 02-05-2007 03:32 PM

I've never used Dvorak before. I just rearranged an old keyboard of mine. It is strange, but I can already see the advantages of it!

ArcticStones 02-05-2007 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonjonc (Post 355220)
I've never used Dvorak before. I just rearranged an old keyboard of mine. It is strange, but I can already see the advantages of it!

What did you do? Re-wire it somehow?

jase71ds 02-05-2007 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticStones (Post 355232)
What did you do? Re-wire it somehow?


Jumping in here...

There are Dvorak keyboards. I've never used one.

Both my PowerBook and my wife's old 600mHz iBook have keys that are easily swapped around. Nothing broke, easy process of popping them off and back on.

Even my white Apple USB keyboard on my G4 desktop was easy to remap.

Then of course you have to tell OS X that you want to use Dvorak instead of Qwerty. That's done in the control panel -- and you can put a small icon in the main menu that let's you toggle back and forth between QWERTY and Dvorak.

On my work computer (Dell) I found that I could rearrange the keys as well, but I left them alone. I type Dvorak on a Qwerty layout, which hasn't been too inconvenient.

Jase.

jonjonc 02-06-2007 01:40 AM

I simply popped off the keys and placed them in the Dvorak layout.


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