I suppose I'll take a stab at this one: my purpose is to try to keep this site from going down the toilet like a number of others that used to be worthwhile resources, where the various "lounges, rant rooms, and battlefronts" have tended to take over the posting community and overwhelm many useful technical discussions. And in the process drive good people away as well.

I've seen the 'self-moderating forum' scheme fail too many times to place any confidence in the notion, I'm afraid. It's part of becoming old and jaded on the web. :p

If this forum ever becomes like those 'other places' I guess that will be the time I walk away from it.

Once again, speaking only for Craig and nobody else...

I'm in awe of the moderators' willingness to entertain this thread. That alone shows how open to debate they are.

For what it's worth, I think this site is the most useful board on the topic of Apple products because the current policies strike exactly the right balance of permissiveness and control.

Craig, my old jadedness sent me in the other direction; I've seen too many forums or lose good members due to stifling moderation. We will always have to agree to disagree on this issue, and that's fine with me, I understand your position and how you arrived at it.

If the purpose is to keep good members from leaving, or scaring off new members (which was my assumption), then there is a middle ground to be found. For one, the coat room is the last thing you see and it is clearly marked as social, not technical. So there is no reason for discussions there to interfere with the technical sections. Secondly, if there were a bit more liberty in there, I doubt that people would just leave in a huff due to being offended.

I actually don't advocate a complete free-for-all, but some of my suggestions were related to letting the users self-moderate to some extent to relieve the load on the mods. What I do advocate is a little more liberty with the understanding that some of the most egregious posts are not allowed; threats, personal attacks, extreme political rants, etc. I think religion has stayed out completely, unless I missed something, but politics is heavily mixed with technology. How can we discuss the issues around RFID without discussing whether government should or should not keep tabs on its citizens?

Some of the dumb snide remarks about political leaders really shouldn't get people so riled up. Yeah, it's best to avoid having them, but people should also be able to ignore them, or simply to call others out on their childishness or pointless jabs.

I visit a lot of technical and hobby forums, and this is the only technical one where I spend much time. I am about to resign my mod position on another tech board because the moderation has become too heavy-handed to have any friendly discussion with other members, and to get to know them. Talking with and learning from other professionals is more important to me than just dry "fix it" discussions, and this site gives me quite a bit of that.

Oh, and one important thought: I've been talking to number of other long-time users via e-mail and PM. All of us are appreciative of this forum, and concerned with its long-term usability. We all find value here. There is no "us vs. the mods" attitude, we're all wanting the same things. How to achieve them is the only issue.

On a completely off-topic subject: I sadly note the passing of Albert Scott Crossfield, at the age of 84, doing that which he loved, flying.

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Now I suggest we all go have a beer!

I propose a toast to the continued success and well-being of the Forum.
And another toast to the memory of a great pilot.

Cheers!
:)

Wow, I was just chatting with him a month ago at Pima Air Museum, poking around an SR-71. Very friendly guy, brilliant, and charming. I think I may have a photo of us here...in iPhoto of course.

Well, I am sure that I butt heads with several people on this forum since I am not elist or purist when it comes to using computers. I see macs and PCs as equals. A computer is a computer to me, and how you use it defines its usefullness, not the brand name, or the OS.

However, this is hands down one of the best help forums out there, another good one is

http://www.linuxquestions.org which I am also a member of and it is a great resource for linux questions. well there was this PC one that was awesome but then a bunch of kids got on there and it just became flame war after flame war, and I can't even remember the sites name now lol. Haven't been there in a few years.

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Oh boy, now you’ve done it!
:D

"Some of the dumb snide remarks about political leaders really shouldn't get people so riled up. Yeah, it's best to avoid having them, but people should also be able to ignore them, or simply to call others out on their childishness or pointless jabs."

The problem is, of course, is that people can't ignore them. If someone insults something that's dear to your heart, be it politics, religion, or even your favorite color, there's this natural drive to want to explain to them exactly why they were so wrong to insult {whatever it was}. This, in turn, leads to others who feel the other way, explaining why {whatever it was} was actually correct, and that you're a moron if you don't see it their way. Repeat ad infinitum, and you have chaos and a pissed off membership ... all on a forum designed primarily for technical topics :).

But the voices have been heard; we'll figure out a way to keep it open, try to keep everyone happy, and yet not appear to be overly controlling and demi-god-like. :)

-rob.

Ok, maybe we do need to control speech here after all.

The problem is that not everyone can ignore them. One person's political cartoon is a deeply offensive to someone else, and unless you're a real globe trotter, you probably will not know that every time.

To lighten this with a harmless example, my son roomed as an undergraduate in college with a native Japanese boy. They cooked for themselves in a communal kitchen. On their first encounter with spaghetti, however, they each discovered that the other had appallingly bad table manners: my son because of the the monstrous sucking and slurping undertaken by the Japanese boy to get all the hanging strands into his mouth; and the Japanese boy by the fact that my son bit off the trailing strands and let them fall back in his plate.

To my son, making noise while eating was offensive. To his roommate, allowing any morsel to fall back on your plate was offensive. Since that roommate eventually became his best man and vice-versa, it was not a deal breaker, but a learning experience. Bear in mind, though, that they were just eating spaghetti.

Yep, especially since macs are PCs now:eek: :D ;) :cool:

Reminds me of a peeve: A Mac is a PC. "PC" infers no specifics about an operating system or CPU. It is nebulous and vague.

Right. Which is exactly what trolls want as it makes them feel powerful.

I can understand people inadvertantly stepping on toes, or crossing over into political discussion in a topic that naturally lends itself in that direction. Most of the stuff we've blown the whistle on or shut down out here has been hardly been of that type of innocence. Most have been overt, mean-spirited trolls by forum members who should know better -- often continuing after a warning or two. They never apologize for their disruptive behavior, or demonstrate good-will about improving the forum, but often use straw man fallacies to make it seem that the mod is intolerant of a "diversity of opinions." Marvelous! :rolleyes:

Since it looks from Rob's post like this forum will stay open, I'd strongly encourage all of you who say you care so much about the Coat Room to be more assertive in confronting trollish behavior. Report the posts to us, if you don't want to do it. I've informed the other mods that I won't be spending much time here any more, as I've other work I'm needing to attend to. I'll check in when I have time, and I know the others already do so. But I think you can see from what yellow, hayne, and Craig have shared that we're not exactly enthusiastic about continuing to provide this forum. Better make the best of the opportunity that's still available while it's here.

Well,
I don't post here very often, but visit regularly. Basically, I started to come here to get technical help when OS X was 10.0 and have enjoyed the unsurpassed good advice of many posters since.
I tend to enjoy a good, well-argumented discussion, even if it's otherwise pointless - and am all for the "Everything is open for debate". I think that the Coat Room is worth while here, because the users who provide amiable tech help to such an extent as here are often, well, good company in other areas as well. That may be while many enjoy visiting the coat room. I would personally stop visiting if the tech part deteriorates, not if the coat room closes. However, I endorse a more relaxed moderation in the coat room, though I don't recall having read any unduly closed threads myself.
And lemme join the chorus thanking those who put a lot of their own time into this site - thanks guys!!

I don't say much in the Coat Room, but this time I can not hold back. NovaScotian, I must say that I'm very disappointed in you… What kind of parent doesn't teach their kid how to properly eat spaghetti? :p

i love you guys

Sensibilities
 

And you might offend others. As a Brit I was struck that a poster can talk about 'Britholes' and 'bailing Limeys out in 1944' displaying stupidity AND a scant grasp of history, but it is the next post about George Bush that causes s to hit f. We Mac users who do not live in the USA (which I have visited, like and respect) could perhaps do with moderators being sensitive on our behalf.

JoM

Well.. not all moderators are in the US... well at least one of them is not :)