What's all the fuss with new MacBook Pro's?
 

Firstly, this is not meant to be a trolling exercise (promise). I'm genuinly interested to hear what people think (my apologies if it upsets anyone :( )

I was having a look around the new mac book pro this week, and I must say, I'm very unimpressed.

Lets see;

Disadvantages:
No S-video out...I need to sometimes connect my powerbook to my TV. I'm not interested in an extra add-on as this defeats the purpose of a portable machine. I want it built-in (otherwise I'd buy a desktop).

No line-modem. I need this to occassionally be able to update my website (it won't allow sign in to it's FTP server via broadband :( ) Again, I'm not interested in an extra add-on as this defeats the purpose of a portable machine. I want it built-in (otherwise I'd buy a desktop).

Half the number of FireWire ports. What's going on there then?

And the single one that's there is Half the speed (firewire 400 not 800). eh? :confused:

Advantages:
Better Power cable. LOVE that magnetic attachment thingy, I can see it being very helpful with me. :D


The others of better screen and processor etc will happen anyway, reguardless of a switch to Intel.

So when do you think Apple will bring the macbook up to the "spec" of the powerbook then?

(i might consider upgrading if they do :D).

The problem was that the better processor wasn't going to happen. They just couldn't get a G5 into a laptop.

I think the different specs have to do with price. Using Intel processors means that lots of people will compare the Mac laptop with a PC laptop on price alone, forgetting about extras like additional ports. I don't think it's a fair comparison, but people will do it anyway.

What's impressive? SPEED SPEED SPEED! All around, this thing is FAST, a desktop class machine. A higher end desktop. Now go look at the virtualization threads for another big advantage.

If you equate carrying a tiny little S-Video cable to a desktop, then there's no point discussing this with you. You don't have a grasp on reality. Firewire ports...who cares. I've never used more than one, and the only time I've used FW800 is to image a machine, but it wasn't actually significantly faster than FW400. Modem? After a few years of Mac ownership, I've never actually used one of the modems. They could have been fake for all I know. You should fix your FTP server.

The only real drawback of the MacBook is the lack of a PCMCIA card. There just aren't many Expresscards out there. And I've worked around that drawback easily, while enjoying the SPEED.

Yes, the original post forgot a major disadvantage is the missing PC Card slot since the new slot is too new to have many useful cards out now.

The missing FireWire port is not really twice the speed of FW800 unless you actually have a data stream feeding it twice the data. Many common uses, like digital video importing from camera, are well within FireWire 400's specs.

That said, I have FireWire 800 drives, so I would miss that on the MPB. I also have a need for more than one FireWire 400 port, so I use a 3-port FireWire 400 expansion card in the PC slot. I would lose functionality in both those areas if I were to buy a MacBook Pro. Though I see some companies are starting to come out with ExpressCards with FireWire 400 ports on them.

In the end, it's all relative. If you won't miss the missing items, in the MBP you get a SUPER FAST Mac laptop, and that's very cool. If you will miss the missing items, like me, you're kinda screwed if you buy a MBP.

The Expresscard FW card was the first one available, and there are a few now in both 400 and 800 speeds. Theoretically this should have much more bandwidth than a PC card.

Have you noticed an actual speed improvement with those drives running on FW800 vs. 400? I didn't see any on my G4 1.67, since the internal drive was slower than FW400 anyway and was the speed limiter.

I believe the S-Video capability is there. You can use the DVI to Video adapter that Apple sells for the Mac mini and the PMG5. I'm not 100% sure of this; the original Apple PR releases for the MacBook mention this, but the spec page doesn't.

Calm down CAlvarez. Like i said, I'm sorry if this upsets people. :(
However, I personally need the above mentioned ports.
I'm in no doubt the machine is faster...but how do I connect it to my Toshiba TV?
Firewire ports? I care and sometimes make use of 800 drives.
How can I fix an FTP server that isn't mine? It isn't my fault my old ISP which hosts my website won't allow (my new) broadband connection to FTP. I have to use dial-up, I have no choice.
I have e-mailed Wanadoo countless times, but they won't budge and insist I continue using dial-up to modify my site.
Fine by me, but not something I can fix...if you get what I mean.

So all my points still stand.
I would like the new intel-based mac (mainly because "virtualisation" intrigues me, and I'm fed up with the sluggishness of virtual PC when I occassionaly use it :mad: ), but am not prepared to upgrade until they:
Double the speed of f/w.
Double the number of f/w ports
Re-introduce s-video connection (i could probably live with the extra dangly modem needed for the macbook though ;) )
(Giskard, that's great if true, solves one of the problems).

He didn't mention PCMCIA because it wasn't an issue for him. These grievances about no internal RJ-11 (modem) jack, and no internal S-Video are silly. If you are looking for older, archiac technology then Apple is not the product for you.

I am superbly happy there is no modem. I haven't used dial-up in over 5 years. It's hard for me to imagine that this is something people really care about. Perhaps they should also add a serial port too.

To complain that they have DVI and not S-Video is ridiculous. I have no desire to use S-Video to connect to my DVI capable HDTV. (Not that every Mac user has a HDTV, but they are here to stay, the prices are now resonable and pretty much any HDTV will have DVI support.

There are few people that use FW800 on regular basis, I'm not one of them, nor have I met one. The ExpressCard34 FW800 card should be sufficient. The only real drawback is the lack of a PCMCIA slot (though I doubt this wiill be a problem in 12 months), but my 12" PB doesn't have one anyway. I've only ever used PCMCIA on my Wintels for networking, which Mac does internally, so I don't see a need to perpetuate this older technology. USB2.0 and FW400 are equivelant. There are a greater number items that utilize USB than FW, including all iPods being shipped.

(note: These same things were said when Apple removed the 3.5" floppy drive)

What is this "Floppy" thing you talk about?:rolleyes:

Like i said, if others don't use dial-up, fine, good for them. I personally need it (and actually could probably live with the dangly modem thingy if I think about it).

My current mac has both DVi for connection to my projector, and s-video for connection to the TV.
I don't want to swap DVI for s-vid (a backward step), simply add s-vid to what's already there (ie bring it up to spec).

Why can't the macbook have both, for those who ues both??

Except the one about the faster processor coming anyway. Unless you were prepared to wait several more years. :eek:

True :D (10 letters)

To rephrase (I don't want everyone to take my comments as a personal insult to them...it isn't, just my observations of the connectivity of the new machine)....When will the macbookpro come out with 2 f/w800 ports and an s-vid out (or dvi-s-vid convertor as standard)

...simple really.

I'm not knocking the mac, i love macs :D, but I reckon someone hit the nail on the head earlier when they mentioned cost. In which case it's not unfeasible that the next macbook pro will have these extra ports ? :)
If so, when?

Who's specs? Compaq, Dell or Gateways? :-)

I'm not in the least bit upset at all. If you really think a little tiny DVI to S-Video cable is as big as a desktop, then there's nothing to discuss. You do understand that it's just a little DVI to S-Video cable, right??

Every computer in the world is a compromise. If you think having to carry a little cable to connect to your TV (and if it's *your* TV, why would you have to carry the adapter around???), and having to carry a modem outweigh the benefits of this system, then it is not for you.

What do you use FW800 for? Have you tested that function to see if it actually works faster than on FW400? I have, and found nothing tangible.

If your FTP server is broken and the provider won't fix it, switch providers. Or just stick with the ancient technology. Newer stuff may not be for you if those other things are more important to you.

You could host your website somewhere else.

I have to call BS on this one. Your FTP server has absolutely no clue how you are connected to the internet. Networks are specifically designed this way.

Chris

aaah, sorry, my misunderstanding then I didn't realise you could get a dvi->s-vid convertor cable (I thought only hdmi-dvi were available).
In which case you're right, it isn't an issue (another one to cross off :D)

Unfortunately I have nice, free, hosting with a great domain name at the mo (don't wanna risk starting over and ending up with http://other.server.uk/~web/space/t.ghafoor/~home/ or something when my existing one is nice and simple :D, no slahes/tilda's...one simple address)

Sorry, you're wrong. I went through this for about a month with wanadoo (formerly freeserve.net) when I first got broadband.
The FTP server will not allow connections from anything other than dial-up to their specified address.
I've tried logging on to the same FTP address with my current broadband connection and it just says "Cannot complete operation because some data in "ftp://uploads.webspace.freeserve.net" could not be read or written"

I then try the same but connected via dial-up rather than broadband, and everything works fine. Go figure :confused:
1 month of premium rate "help" lines and e-mails to freeserve (aka wanadoo) resulted in their tech team telling me that "only dial-up will work".

The dial-up service I used to have was a "no connection charge, you don't pay for the time online, we get our money from your telephone company" deal. Further, if i fail to go online using my name and password at least once a month, they delete my account, so I need to at least log on via dial-up that often :(

....don't ask me, e-mail them for confirmation if you're unconvinced.

PS just thought of another plus, love the idea of the built in camera for conferancing/video calls

eeeeeuuuuurrrrggghhhhhhhhh
:D

The only way they can do this is if they make you dial in to their modems. But they will lose customers this way--and you should be one of the first to leave. Find yourself another ftp server.

Cheers,
Chris

Your FTP host sucks. The MacBook Pro has no modem built-in. Therefore, the MacBook Pro is crap.

It's true because I said it on the Internet.

ha ha ha :D

I'm wondering… if this is the ISP's FTP server, could they be restricting inbound connections by IP address?

I agree with you that it sounds exactly like what they're doing.

Chris

yes, I think they are, but I only use this ISP to host my website.

Ignoring the www and .co.uk bits and my address is only 9 characters long (nice 'n' short).

So until I can find a Free website hoster that will give me a short address (like I have currently...I can't find any others that will), I'm happy to stick with them and occassionally have to dial-up to upload a few extra pages/pictures :)

So like I said, it's a pity this functionality isn't standard any more.

You have a free web hosting service.
You get what you pay for. Seems like you have a bargain for what you are paying.

I agree. That's why I'm happy to stay with them :)

Back to the new macbook, I suppose my wishlist would still be more f/w ports (800)....but then, if I wait for leopord, that gen's macbook probably will have this on the next models.
I must confess that the thing that has me most excited is this idea of multi-OS booting/running. I'd love to have WinXP/2000 running at full speed for the v v occassional prog I use that needs it (hopefully apple will have full graphics support figured too...decent combat flight sims again (aaaaaaaahhhhh :D)

The MacBook Pro is an amazing machine. I have never met anyone who uses firewire 800. Just use the 400 or buy the card for it. No big deal. I can't imagine that anyone would let a few additional cables to carry around keep them from purchasing a notebook. Mostly everyone gets a case for it that has enough comparements to carry more accessories than you need. I have replaced my old bulky PC desktop with it and I'm loving every minute of it. I even now have the option to boot into Windows or use virtualization for the few programs that I have to have Windows for. Hopefully this is the new trend and I will never have to purchase a pc again. Just my thoughts. I love my MacBook Pro. I give it a 9.99 out of ten.

This is probably why the MBP doesn't have FW800. I'm definitely sold on FW over USB, but I think this is a sign that Apple's backing off of FW800 and I wouldn't go holding my breath about seeing it on future models. Maybe Intel twisted their arm over USB as part of the proc deal. As for the modem, it's gone bye-bye and you'll just have to go USB. You're in the one percent. Sorry. I wish I had a dollar for every time I had to bend over backwards for a favored piece of hardware/software that became obsolete.

Moving to the Coat Room...

They should pass a federal law to eliminate dial up just like they are doing with SDTV. I can't believe people are still on dial up. You guys are holding us back.

Pfft they can't get rid of SDTV. Then I would have no tv.

No freeview here so it's analogue tv or pay up for satellite.

The plan is that eventually over the air broadcasts will be HD.

Anyway both old standards like that are holding back the techies :)

Well...this is a pretty cool thing do have for a MacBook Pro:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkAtRfA1UXc

It won't do any good after I pop the battery out.

But before the battery pops out, you have to lift the laptop, stick a coin in the slot, and turn it. The alarm will go off as soon as you hit step 1, lift the laptop.

I wonder if that thing works if it's sleeping?

The website says that sleep is disabled when the alarm is turned on.

Actually chabig, there was a post like yours on another site but he said (paraphrasing) "It won't do any good after I plug in some headphones." To disable the speakers.

If that software is smart, it will do something like Detour did and be able to route audio out the speakers no matter what the current audio output device is.

Also, it looks like I was wrong about the MBP battery access, since I don't have one. Apparently it's two sliding switches now, not the coin lock.

Note that they do not call it theft "prevention," but "deterrent."

If they can bypass the mute button, auto-max the voumn, and bypass sleep mode then I think they can bypass the headphones too.

I wonder how sensitive it is. If you walk to close to it does it go off?

Overall, it's a pretty ingenious novelty software.

Who would use this and when? I've often wanted to take a trip to the bathroom or get up to get food/drink when in a public place. This would allow me to not have to turn around every 5 seconds. It won't stop a thief from making a grab and run; for that there are cable locks. However, cable locks aren't a great tool in public places either since usually all you can lock them to is a table leg, which can be lifted. The combo of the two would make a racket and slow down the thief.

Yup...it's a deterrent. As soon as i heard that i'd come running. Otherwise you'd have no idea...

i think it's both very cool, and practical.

If I am using PB in public there are usually other laptoppers around, often within a couple meters. A thief would be so obvious trying to pop open my lock with a ballpoint pen or struggling with carrying the chair that I cable-locked the laptop to, since my table neighbors would be aware that it is not his laptop. (Some chairs provide a closed loop to lock to, and is awkward enough to be a problem to carry stealthily out of a crowded room with a cabled laptop dangling from it).

Re. the modem: sounds like it's going the way of floppy drives. It won't be standard on MBP, but apparently you can request it be added for another $50.00. Some of us remember the days when Macs didn't come with modems and you had to buy an external one for $100 or so. Outside the big cities (where, apparently, most of you are living), dial-up is still the only way to connect to the net.

That said, it is rather impressive that PCs (including laptops) have continued to ship with almost every port and drive used in the past 10 years!

In case it wasn't clear, the $50 modem you can add to your MBP purchase is an external USB modem.

Do PCs still come with Parallel and Serial ports? I assume most PCs don't have DVI yet, but assume that will become a standard soon enough as Apple --once again-- has set the pace.

That's interesting. I read that online a few weeks back, but didn't believe it!

Very few non-Apple laptops include DVI. And the ones that have changed to DVI...well the manufacturers are getting complaints about the "missing" VGA connection... :rolleyes: As far as I know they all still include a modem. Most higher-end models have Firewire 400, but with a 4-pin connector, which is a pain. Serial ports have mostly disappeared, and parallel is going out. I recently got bitten by the missing serial port on a special-use A/V project, but a $20 USB to serial cable worked fine.

I thought I did, but that's not good enough, so I measured it tonight since I was doing a mirror and would have two of my multi-interface drives connected. Here are the results averaged from 3 trials each.

Conclusion? On a PowerBook with a 4200RPM drive, a FireWire 800 port is only an advantage if you often copy between FireWire 800 drives. I actually do need to do that, since I have a master external drive that I mirror to rotated backup drives, full of media too large to store on the PowerBook. Not the most common case, I suppose. Not sure how much difference it would be on newer Mac laptops with 5400 and 7200 RPM drives.

"Most higher-end models have Firewire 400, but with a 4-pin connector, which is a pain. "

I thought FW400 was universal. How does this differ from 6-pin (besides the two pin difference, of course)?

Is it too much to ask for RAID 0 and RAID 2 capabilities on a laptop?

Both connectors are within spec. The 6-pin can power the connected peripheral, like a bus-powered hard drive or webcam. The 4-pin has no power, so the peripheral must supply its own power source, like a video camera with its battery.

THIEF: "HA HA FREE LAPTOP"

ME: "HEY YOU WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE A FREE LAPTOP"

ALARM: "WHAAAA"

THIEF: "OH CRAP"

FLOOR: "HEY CHECK OUT THIS NEW COMPUTER THAT JUST FELL ONTO ME"

MACBOOK PRO: "YOU IDIOT WHY DID YOU LEAVE ME UNATTENDED"

Can any apple remote disable the alarm though?

Read the part about pairing your remote to your machine.

Styrafome, useful test numbers, thanks.

As far as four vs. six pins, the lack of power is one annoyance but the biggest issue is that four pin cables aren't common, so you have to carry a cable or adapter if you expect to be able to plug into a FW device anywhere. The four pin "standard" is a Sony thing, and they hate using established standards, so they created that and called it iLink.

I shoulda mentioned I was copying a 600MB disk image.

If you can get dsl or cable internet in rural Arkansas i'd like to know where you cannot get it. Or maybe Arkansas isn't as bad as people like to think.

My guess is that you can't really get dsl outside of any corporation limits of any town -- not even in modern Arkansas. ;) I can't even get it in the suburb I live in in Wichita, KS, which has around 400,000 people. Same goes for cable internet; it's just not there outside of most corporation limits, and isn't provided in the smaller ones.

I don't know how it is for residential, however, on a recent cross-country driving trip we had free internet in every fleabag motel across the deep South.

Wow!
In Norway I think you have to go all the way down to villages with 3-digit populations before finding a place on the map without DSL. With mobile phone coverage, I don’t think you can find a single town or village without it.

But it is good to know that the USA is a developing country. ;)

I think that people who travel with their laptops are feeling screwed by Apple right now.

The lack of video out without the adapter means one more expense and another thing to carry (and lose).

The lack of the additional FW port means that video editing on the road becomes a royal PITA. Yes, you could add back a FW port with a card, but the end of the PC card slot is an end to cheap adapter cards. So there's another expensive add-on and another item to carry (and lose) and all of your old PC cards are instantly obsoleted.

...and then there's the modem. That's the point where a lot of people just said F-Apple. If you're using your laptop as a desktop replacement or just carting it back and forth between home and school or home and work then you probably don't care. But road warriors know how important that modem is -- wireless access points ARE NOT available in every hotel and coffee shop in the world. Neither are printers -- faxing a copy of a document to the front desk at a hotel has saved my ass many times. So add one more expense, one more thing to carry (and lose) and a whole bunch of pissed off travelers.

With luck, some of those problems will be addressed in future revisions. It has been suggested that the lack of FW 800 is due to Intel designing the board instead of Apple and the modem was supposedly left off because they had no room to cram it into the case. Maybe a future revision of the Mac Book will be a real portable.

But I doubt it. Steve doesn't change his mind. Putting a modem back would cause him to lose face. We might get FW 800. That's about the most I expect from today's Apple.

There are several reasons for this.
One begin that America is so large. Norway has 307,860 sq km of land while the US has 9,161,923 sq km.
Second, we have a great many residences that left Europe because it was too progressive and felt going to the uninhabited wilderness, save for the native savages, was the way to get way from evil (read: technology). If only they'd breed outside their own gene pool!

Cellulah cov’rage, breeding habits ’n gene pools
 

True, true. But the US has a population of 298.5 million, whereas Norway only has 4.6 million. (Mind you, that is not counting all the offspring of emigrants to Minnesota etc that still have at least 1/16th Norwegian genes in ’em.)

According to Wikipedia, the USA has a population density of 30 people per km2. (Now that’s counting Alaska.) Norway has only 14/km2. (Not counting Spitsbergen.) In other words less than half of the US. So actually the wilderness you speak of is on this side of the dam! :D

All in all, there really shouldn’t be any excuse for the lack of cellular or Cingular coverage in Eureka, CA (population approx 26 000), which I experienced 15 months ago. In fact I lost coverage a ways west of Redding, only regaining it a ways north of ’Frisco. Naturally, I thought there was somethin’ wrong with my cellulah, but an embarrased Cingulah dealer showed me the overwhelming white patches on the map. (Cingular’s ironic slogan: "Raising the bar")

Next time I travel, perhaps with a MacBook Pro, I’m naturally hoping to be greeted with better coverage and greater technological sophistication.

Europe being too progressive? Better breeding habits?
Well, now... Forum policy prevents me from commenting either of those assertions.
;)


With best regards,
ArcticStones

An aside, I know as an American that I'm jealous of the cooler looking, more advanced cell phones available in Europe. There are ways we can use/get them but it usually involves a highly inflated purchase cost, excessive shipping amount which is subject to a possible customs inspection unless you have a "mule" willing to sneak it in the country inside their rectum. :rolleyes:

I keep trying to talk myself into a MacBook Pro but in addition to all the things you listed, there is one more travel-related issue. There is not, to my knowledge, any available airliner power port adapter with a MagSafe plug on the end of it, yet. I have a nice Kensington universal power adapter that I can use on planes, in a car, or on AC with my G4 or G3 PowerBook, but with the MacBook my "just one adapter to carry" is worthless.

Follow the money . . .
 

Well, that's right. :) The overwhelming majority of people live in urban areas, however, so your later point about people per square mile doesn't work out when considering DSL services for rural areas, where 60 million Americans still live (on about 3.5 million square miles). There's only so many accounts a provider can sell in rural areas, and it's simply not cost effective to put up a central office every few thousand feet or so. Same goes for providing hi-speed cable. If providers could make money selling these services, I'm sure they'd do so. Apart from some kind of grants or government subsidies to providers, it's just not likely to happen.

Edit: see http://www.demographia.com/db-usa-staterural.htm for how many people per square mile it works out to be in some states.

A small minority, yes. Apple has always been the leader in ridding computers of legacy ports that most people don't need. I'm an extremely heavy user of computing and technology as well as a business traveler, and haven't missed either of those at all. I can *imagine* situations where I might, they're just not things I run into in real life. YMMV

As far as population density, I think one issue here is that the density varies greatly. I can take a 20 minute drive from very low density rural homes to high rise buildings downtown. In the more dense areas it's easy to find wi-fi, even city-provided in large areas. In the most rural areas sometimes you can't get any sort of high speed residential access, yet in many cases a few public wi-fi spots still exist.

As far as power, I agree that I would really like a universal power adapter, but until it exists, Kensington has a nice ultra-small inverter that you can pair up with the AC adapter. Not ideal, but livable.

Yep. 'Dunno how I forgot that. Most Apple laptop batteries are already down to well under 2-hours of life in the first year. My power adapter is invaluable.

I've never seen an Apple laptop lose more than about 8% capacity in the first year. I'm guessing people who do lose more than that are either abusing them or just using them on battery every single day, which of course would cause this issue. Apple will replace batteries in the first year if they lose a substantial amount of capacity.

I've been through this with Apple several times: The battery has to be down under 1 hour in the first year for them to even consider replacing it.

.
I’m curious: With recent/upcoming strides in battery technology, and the reduced power consumption on Intel chips much touted by Apple, are we going to see any radical lengthening of battery life? I would like to see a reliable 8-12 hours.

Not likely, unless we go to fuel cells. There really are no expected advances in batteries. The general consensus is that we've gone about as far as we can with that technology.

The CPUs use less power for a given speed, but the speed continues to climb, so basically you get more speed for the same power. The only low-power processors on the market are things like the Transmeta Crusoe, which isn't popular.

I’m curious -- which do you have in mind?
And if you could purchase a cell phone with a credit card volunteered by, say Steve Ballmer, which one would you get?

Hmm, all the cell phones I used to want are available statewide. At the ones i was able to look up. The only one I didn't find is the Nokia used in the film Swordfish. The US version wasn't spring loaded. Perhaps things have changed or perhaps my perception was off, but I'll keep on looking.

To answer your question about a volunteered CC, I'd have to go with this one. Notice the one-button concierge service (I assume it's like On-Star).

My previous phone was EU-only for a while, but no matter, I picked it up on eBay. It seems to go in cycles; right now the US carriers all have the hottest new PDA phone, and occasionally we get one first.

Storage capacity for any type of energy has always been a problem. Look at those trying to store "green energy." Things like wind farms and solar panels fluctuate far too much to call it a reliable source, but when it does work, it works great because it pumps energy right into the grib for immediate use. But whats done with the energy that isnt used? Well its a problem and hopefully something can come from some research.