Need software to shut down G4 against child's wishes
 

I have a 13 year old child who has consistently stayed on the computer past the time she is allowed. She goes through the pretense of not knowing the time to "just one minute, I'm almost done" to outright defying her computer curfew time. I caught her one night back on the computer at 12:30 AM after making her get off earlier -- on a school night!

Energy Saver allows you to set up a start up and shut down time, but she can so easily bypass this by just clicking the cancel button when it tries to shut down.

What I want is a FORCED shut down which remains shut down (on her account) until the software allows the G4 to come back up.

Ideally, the software would give me a special "override" password so I can allow her to know and use her regular password throughout the day, but be unable to bypass the shutdown without the "special" password.

Further, I would hope the software would allow for different times, such as an earlier shutdown time for school nights than for non-school nights.

I don't want to fight my daughter every night, and I don't want to have to stay up all night to see if she gets back on the G4 in the middle of the night. I want the G4 to do this for me, automatically.

Is there any way to do this? I'm willing to purchase commercial software, if necessary. The computer in question is the G4 listed in my signature.

While not a software ware solution, you could try this work around.

I assume your daughter is staying up later on the computer to be on the internet and not do homework.

Move the internet modem/router out of her room and run a network cable into her room. Unplug the network at her time limit. If it's 9pm, unplug it at exactly 9pm without warning.
If you have to remove the modem to your room to she can't just sneek out and plug it back in.

I also found this, Mac Minder, I have not used it so can't say if it's any good.

I would also suggest losing computer access if caught breaking the "rules".
If you're susposed to be off at 9pm and your still on at 10pm you lose the computer for 24 hours on the first offence. If it continues to happen then the punishment gets longer.

Are you kidding? Put 20 of the best software developers in the country on it and you might stand a chance of keeping a computer-savvy 13 year old from being able to use the computer after a certain time. For about a week.

Now, if you're there at the time, you can keep her from doing things like booting from CD and editing or nuking various plist files and preferences, startup items, and the like, but if you're there at the time, you could just march her away from the computer.

No automated process running on a computer is going to permanently stymie a 13 year old for long.

I took a quick look at MacMinder, might be just what you're looking for.
It's easy to install, auto detects your user accounts, allow you to set usage time. ie, on Monday usage can be from 10am to 8pm but you can set usage time limit of 4 hours in the 10-8 period. Limits for each day can be different.

But like AHunter3 said, kids are smart and can figure things out. You'd have to have a password on your account that she could never guess or figure out.

And as I said before, a little (or a lot) of punishment for offences may be in order. Give her the limits she's asking for.

I am definitely going to run a trial with Mac Minder. I most especially love the idea of being able to control it remotely AND being able to view her computer usage. This is the one area I have found lacking in Mac software. I can monitor everything my 16 year old daughter does on her Windows PC, but I have never found anything as good for the Mac.

Regarding some of the other comments...

The G4 is in the "computer room" just outside of our bedroom. My children are never allowed to have computers in their bedroom or in any non-public location in our house. Period.

We have reasons for not wanting to remove the router or modem each night (because I have programs running on my G5 at night that require internet access). Simply disconnecting her ethernet cable from the router is no good. She's been tested and found to be in the 99% intelligence range, showing in the beginning of the 7th grade to already be on the achievement level of college level. HOWEVER, she is not very computer savvy other than running programs. And I know how to make very complex passwords that she can never break. So she can figure out how to plug in her ethernet wire, but I doubt she will know how to bypass locking software. In the last 1.5 years, neither her sister nor her have been able to stop the computer monitoring I have on her sister's Windows PC. :D

I am fully aware of parenting skills, such as grounding her from the computer, but we have much bigger issues going on, and on this particular case, I'd rather use the "take the car keys away" approach than to "let them have the keys, and keep applying more and more punishments for disobeying" approach. Further, without having good monitoring software for the G4, I have no way of knowing when she gets up in the middle of the night to use the computer so she's learned how to get away with that behavior without any consequence whatsoever. I want NO to be NO with no arguments, no fuss, no nothing. The computer shuts down and that's that. We've gone 'round and 'round with disobedience and punishments to the point she is in therapy. Normal punishments have not worked with her. She takes the punishment and continues the undesirable behavior to the point that the punishments increased to unacceptable levels. I simply MUST find alternatives wherever possible.

In addition, there are times in which I want to go to sleep before her 11PM weekend curfew so I'd rather have software boot her off the computer than to always have to stay up to do it myself. And as much as my husband is a wonderful husband and father, his parenting skills of watching the clock and getting her off the computer isn't the greatest. He's either forgets the time, or is too soft or too harsh, none of which solves the problem.

There's more to the story than I'm explaining; more than anyone needs to know. But the crux of it is that I really need to find software to handle this. I will definitely try Mac Minder, and if anyone has any other software suggestions, I'd love to hear them. Thank you!

Vicki,

I have some clients who would be interested in how you make out with MacMinder, as would I.
Please post back with feedback on your experiences.

Thanks

Some routers have the ability to turn on/off internet access to specific computers at times of your choosing. I believe my D-Link can do this, but I'm not at home to confirm it.

I'd be very happy to share my experience with it. I just downloaded the trial and am about to set it up on her computer (remotely! :D). I really, really hope this will do what I'm wanting, including monitoring her usage.

On her sister's PC, the monitoring software is truly excellent, and I so much wish something similar was available for the Mac. I have hourly reports emailed to me with every keystroke (including, at my option, things such as copy/paste/delete keystrokes), every website, everything! It even does screen captures every 10 seconds (times are set by me) so when she does try to copy/paste, I can still see what she's up to. Specific keywords (that I set up) that appear on the screen or that she types are immediately emailed to me. And all chats are immediately emailed to me. Since this is all emailed to me (except the screen captures), I can view what she's doing no matter where I am as long as I can get to my emails. So when I was in Boston last month, little did she know, I could STILL monitor her every move on the computer, including all her chats INSTANTLY.

We've had major problems with her which are finally beginning to turn around somewhat which is partly why her sister is acting out as she is. She's had a very bad example to follow. Couple all that with (more than you wanted to know) the fact that these kids are extremely smart, have ADD/ADHD, ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder), and that I was neglected and abused as a child so I'm "winging it" as a parent (which resulting in me doing way too much for my kids -- making up for what my parents never did for me -- and being way too harsh with punishments -- because that's how I was raised). I never believed in any of this psychology stuff and thought it was nothing but a bunch of bull people used as excuses, but this last year and a half has very much change my mind. I, myself, have been in therapy which is finally beginning to show success. Now I have to "undo" a lot of things with my kids, such as no schedules because, having been a neglected child myself I never had a schedule of any kind and didn't know how to apply schedules to oppositional kids who did not respond to normal punishments, such as grounding, etc. So that's the story in a nutshell. More than anyone needs to know, but this explains why I am seeking parenting software to handle the computer issue.

We're still dealing with issues such as picking up clothes, flushing the toilet, closing drawers, hanging up towels, putting trash in the trash can, etc. so I'm basically overloaded with issues/rules/punishments. Anything I can do to resolve an issue without setting up yet another "if you do this, this punishment will be applied" is a Godsend. Keep your fingers crossed with Mac Minder!

If Mac Minder can't do what I want, I'd be interested in this possibility. But I have a question.

Does the router actually know which computer is connected? Is it possible to switch the ethernet wires to bypass this feature (making another computer on the network now be shut down while the G4 can come back up) or does it actually identify and recognize the computer itself and keeps that particular computer shut down no matter which port it's connected to?

Second question... can this be easily overridden in the RARE occasion one of my kids actually needs to use their computer past curfew to actually do (shock!) homework?

I'm not sure because I'm not at home, but I believe it uses the MAC address of the computer, so changing ethernet ports wouldn't fool it.

Overriding it is as simple as going to the router's admin page and turning off the feature.

That all sounds excellent!

One last question, if you know. Does it work with Windows PCs? We have 6 computers networked together, 3 Macs and 3 Windows PCs.

I would especially love it if it could also shut down my older daughter's PC. Even though she is now excellent about following her computer curfew (53 days at a Wilderness Camp "Brat Camp" does wonders for defiant teens! :D), her younger sister knows how to use that computer, as well. However, we can also have big sister change her password to something little sis doesn't know to solve that problem.

Somehow, they never showed parenting to be like this on the Brady Bunch shows! ;)

Put a lock on the door..

First experience with Mac Minder.

While it claims you can administer it remotely, you cannot install it remotely. So you have to wait for your child to be off the computer and out of sight to install it (so they can't see you enter the administrator's password). I find this to be undesirable, but not a deal-breaker.

This is not as good as SpectorSoft's eBlaster software which allows you to do everything remotely, including installation. THIS is what I wish I could find for the Mac. But their Mac version isn't anywhere as good as their Windows version. All their Mac version does is take screen shots which you can only view when on their computer. You do not get any reports sent to you. You cannot control it remotely. You have to view page after page after page of screen shots which makes running searches on keywords impossible.

It's an open room connected to the family room. No door.

But that also means they cannot use the computers behind a closed door which is one of the things we like most about the location of the computer room. It is a highly visible room that can be seen from the main family room and our bedroom (although, the child in question has learned how to quietly close our bedroom door at night).

The ability to install remotely on a machine that's just sitting on your network and not net-booting may be desirable in this case, but it's also a major security problem.

I think your best bet is going to be the router, but even that will need to be locked away, because it may be possible to do a hard reset that will also reset the router password, which will then allow her to get back online.

Apple's Remote Desktop software while expensive allow's you remote control of over Mac's, you can even watch what is happening on the screen, live, without the knowledge of the person being watched.
I know it has the ability (not sure of restrictions or how complicated) to installed software remotely.

http://www.apple.com/remotedesktop/

Well, Mac Minder offers a free 10 day trial. And having read the docs, it does have an option that I think might work. So I'm going to give it a try.

It won't do the full monitoring that I'd love to have, but it will solve the biggest problem -- getting her to understand that when it's curfew time, that means NOW, not "in a minute" which can persist for 5, 10, 15 minutes and force us into a confrontation with her. We have bigger battles to pick.

I was also thinking about the SpectorSoft Spector for the Mac (which I have already bought and installed). I may be able to figure out how to view the screen shots remotely by installing it on my PowerBook and (if possible) linking the data files to my daughter's G4. That would mean I could only view the screenshots when I'm connected to the G4, but I've been doing that with some of my other software without any problems. It's not the best solution, but it's better than what I have now. Remote monitoring, even if it's on my patio with my PowerBook, is MUCH better than having to wait for her to be off the G4 (she does not know Spector is installed on the G4 -- she does not know she's being monitored at all).

[Edit] Correction... she does know she's being monitored, but has no clue how or what software is being used, etc. But she does know I am monitoring that computer. I'm sorry for misstating this.[/Edit]

Dang, it was so much simpler when I was a kid. The biggest issue back then was making sure the TV was turned off at night (with its whopping 3 channels that went off the air at night anyway). I absolutely love the technology of today, but trying to control kids' usage is not easy. The internet, computer games, chatting, cell phones, cutting, "punk" and the music of today is not making parenting an easy job at all. Thank goodness we've at least avoided substance abuse so at least I can count my blessings on that one.

Thanks, but I don't think this will help much. I can install Mac Minder later when my daughter is away from the computer, and from then on, I can administrate it remotely. Everything else that remotedesktop offers is "live" which requires that I be actively watching her activity as it happens which just isn't possible all the time.

I'm thinking that Mac Minder can do the shutdown automatically for me while playing with possible remote viewing of the Spector data files might be a reasonable work around for me. It's not quite what I want, but it may be the best I can get for now, and it will at least cover the basics of what I need.

As a parent of a teenager, I would advise you to tell your daughter that her computer use may be monitored. It's a question of trust. It's bad enough that you are monitoring her computer use, but it will be much worse if she ever finds out that you have been doing this behind her back.

Ok, just so you know, the D-Link can block ranges of ip addresses from getting to the web during hours you choose. Unfortunately, it doesn't let you go from say, 10 pm to 7am because those are parts of two separate days. You can block from 10 pm to 11:55 pm and then set another block from midnight to 7 am, so there would be a five minute interval with no block. Since it doesn't recognize MAC addresses, you'd need to block all available ip addresses (x.x.x.2 - x.x.x.254) or at least all not being used by other computers in order to be sure she couldn't get onto the web.

I agree with hayne, Monitoring is a form of punishment.
She should be told why she is being monitored.
If she can show that she is turst worthy, ie. not being on the computer when she should not, etc, etc, then you would lessen the monitoring.
Eventually through trust, you should be able to get to a point where you don't need to monitor.
Also point out, this is all "her" choice. The point you are at now is because of her choices, and where you go from here is up to her future choices.

VNC software can be installed remotely via the command line, but you need to be fairly Unix-fluent to do it.

I would take a rather simple view of shutting the thing off - a boot item hidden in the startup process (different depending wether you have 10.3 or 10.4) that runs the following (as root):

until [ $HellFreezesOver ]
do
if [[ `date "+%H"` > 22 ]]
then
shutdown -h now
fi
sleep 10
done


It will lock the machine into a shutdown loop that will be very hard to hack out of. If she's smart enough to do it, then whatever she's doing in the wee hours is working, and she has a promising programming career ahead.

Now, if you change the `shutown` command to `diskutil eraseDisk HFS+ SarahWasBad disk0` you have a slightly more permanent solution, reminiscent of Cinderella's coach at midnight.

hayne, I should have been more clear (and I just edited my earlier post because I did misstate that point). She knows she's being monitored, but she has no idea how. She does not know what software is being used or what I can or cannot see or whether I can see it remotely. But both kids know they are being monitored, but that's all they know. My older daughter has figured out that I can see some of her stuff on my computer, but she's clueless as to how.

cwtnospam, it doesn't sound like D-link will work for me then. I record shows on my G5, some of which come on at 2AM - 3AM. So I can't block everyone out. Besides, my husband and I should be allowed to use our computers whenever we wish. We do not have the same curfews as our children.

tbsingleton73, I never considered monitoring as a punishment. To me, it's the same as not allowing my children to roam downtown all alone in the middle of the night. It's not merely a trust issue of the children, but a concern that they are not yet wise enough to know when a predator may approach them or whether they are giving out too much information that could invite a predator. I may be a bit over zealous on this issue, but I was sexually molested for almost 10 years as a child so I am very careful to keep my kids from falling prey to these people on the internet. Have you ever seen any of the Dateline predator shows? Sexual molesters can be anyone, and it's impossible for anyone to know. In my case, it was my own father. He seems like a perfectly normal person on the outside. However, from my therapy, it appears he has a sexual addiction and is also a sociopath (not all sociopaths are mass-murderers, some just do bad things to their own kids). So having had that experience, I am very protective of my kids' usage of the internet.

However, I do agree and very much ensure that she understands that the consequences of her actions are from HER choices, both desirable and undesirable. But monitoring is not a choice and it's not because of her abuse of the computer. It's because she is young, not sexually knowledgeable, and can easily be fooled by a predator so she needs a parent to watch over her internet activities to ensure her safety.

acme.mail.order, as much as I would love to go the unix route, I don't have the knowledge nor time to learn what I'd need to learn to do what I want to do. I need something already written for me that I can just plug in and use with a user-friendly interface.

30 minutes to go, and it's curfew time. Then I can install Mac Minder on her G4 and begin to play with it.

Mac Minder experience so far:

Okay, to get it set up, I first had to log on as the admin on my daughter's G4 and install Mac Minder on there. Then I had to set the preferences to allow for remote administration. I also had to open a port in the firewall to allow the remote administration to work.

Once that was done, I installed Mac Minder on my PowerBook. At first, all seemed fine as it came up, showing my admin logon remotely. Then I logged off on the G4 and logged on with my daughter's account. This made Mac Minder on my PowerBook lock up. So I force quick Mac Minder on my PowerBook and restarted it again. It continued to lock up. I double checked everything, but couldn't figure out what was wrong. Every single time I tried to load Mac Minder, it would lock up. I even uninstalled and reinstalled it with no luck.

Finally, I switched users on the G4 back to my admin account, and this time Mac Minder fired up on my PowerBook. Good. So then I quit Mac Minder on my PowerBook and switched users on the G4. This did the trick. So, apparently, Mac Minder cannot handle having a user log off while it's connected remotely. I cannot keep up with the user log off and a new user log on. And once that happens, the only way to fix it is for the original user to log back in. Not ideal, but since my daughter is the only person who uses the G4, I can live with that.

BTW, I realized as I was doing this that in order to use the remote administration, I will most likely have to purchase TWO copies of the software, one for each computer... which raises the price tag from the simple $30 to the $50 Family Pack. Ugh. But I'll pay the extra because the remote administration is crucial to what I want to do.

Okay, once I got to where I could begin using Mac Minder remotely, I set up the computer time schedule. It's a little confusing, specifically because I believe they have an error in their docs. So I'm not sure if I have it set up correctly yet.

I had hoped that once I had it set up to lock out at a certain time, and it discovered it was 2 hours passed that time, it would have immediately began the lockout. But nope. This greatly concerns me. Does this mean all my daughter has to do is push the reset button and reboot her G4, and Mac Minder won't activate the lock down? Geeez, I hope not. Surely, you'd think they would have not allowed such a gaping hole in their software.

There are 3 features I dearly love. One is I can send a direct message to my daughter through Mac Minder. So when she has her music playing and her earphones on and she can't hear me (or chooses to pretend she can't hear me), I can send her a message! "Time to take out the trash!" can now be easily handled, regardless of iTunes being cranked up! In fact, I can bug her with repeated messages until she gets the job done. I can see the possibilities already! :D

The second feature I like is that I can get a live screenshot of her computer at any time. So if I have a suspicion that she's up to something (you know, that low giggle and the shifty eyes), I can get a quick screenshot of what she's up to without being obvious. If it's just plain kids' fun stuff, then cool. If it's more, then mom's all the wiser. Yes, dear, mom truly does have eyes in the back of her head, even x-ray vision through the walls! :D

Last, but not at all least, is a feature that allows me to do an immediate lockout of her computer. Refusing to do a chore? Instant lockout! Chore completed? Instant removal of lockout. Wow, do I like this one! I'll have to wait and see how the instant lockout affects any running programs. The lockout appears to be nothing more than a screensaver that requires a password to clear. If so, then I don't think it will do any harm to any programs running (although she might "die" if she's in a battle in her runescape game, but I guess that's the consequence for not doing chores when you're supposed to and having to have an instant lockout applied -- oh well!).

My biggest complaint thus far is poor documentation. It tells you the basics (click this to do an instant lockout), but it doesn't offer any deeper understanding of what truly happens when you apply any of these features. So I'm going to have to do some of my own testing to see what really happens. All in all, it appears to be a good start on a nice program, but it seems to still be in the early stages and not quite fully fleshed out yet.

It's really late, and I want to get some sleep so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to fiddle with some of the other features. But for now, I think it might do the trick of getting her off the computer at curfew time. I just have to see if she can somehow bypass it all by simply pressing the reset button. However, if she does that, she may find herself missing a keyboard and a mouse. It might be a bit difficult to use her computer without those minor accessories. And if she goes so far as to take MY keyboard and mouse, she may find her own butt at wilderness camp this summer. Her sister can tell her what a wonderful experience that is. One way or another, she will learn that we are the parents, she is the child, and like it or not, she will follow our rules. You would think as smart as she is and after seeing what we've gone through with her older sister, she would have figured out by now we are not pushovers nor were we born yesterday. She can ODD or ADHD all she wants, but she will still follow our rules. It's just a matter of how she chooses to do so, cooperatively or otherwise.

Well, just ask then...

(BTW, re your comment on MacMinder's cost, VNC is free - I'd be happy to step you through remote setup. PM or email me.)
There's also an easy and free way to block/redirect specfic sites that works on Mac and Windows if that's an issue.

I was halfway through writing a Startup Item when I thought of a better way.
(This better way won't work with a clean install of Tiger, but will work with an upgrade)

Open the terminal from your admin account and do the following: (just copy and paste the boldface stuff)
The machine will be trapped in a boot-shutdown sequence (well, starting a minute after cron gets going) from 22:00 to 23:59 (first line) and again from 0:00 to 7:59 (second line)

She will have to be one smart 13 year old* (or smart enough to read these forums at least) to get around it. /sbin/shutdown doesn't do pleasant things like ask permission before pulling the rug out from under the system.

BTW, I take the corporate view of parental computer monitoring - you paid for the box, you get to know what goes on. If the omen brat child little darling objects, time for a paper route :D

* changing the clock will do it, but I'm assuming she doesn't have admin priviledges to do this

As long as the G5 is on and using that ip address, you don't need to block it. If she were to shut it down and change her ip address to what the G5 was using, she'd get back online. It all depends on how much she knows about computers. There are ways around every step you can take.

After you solve the technology issue, how will you address the underlying parenting issue which is going to become harder and harder to deal with as she matures?

vickishome,

http://www.spectorsoft.com/products/...osh/index.html

Oh my goodness! You are so kind to do that for me! I had no idea you would do that. And I hate to turn down your kindness, but for now, I'm really liking Mac Minder and want to continue to give it a try. I think it's going to not only do what I want, but the added features are turning out to be a huge bonus.

While my daughter may be very smart, she has never taken to learning anything about computers other than running programs and playing online games. Basically, she knows how to use Safari, AIM, MSN, Yahoo email, and a few system preferences. Other than that, she's clueless. She won't even take the time to read error messages whenever they've popped up on the screen.

Further, she knows I am not a pushover parent. She got away with some behaviors because I had fallen into a pretty bad depression, and just eating or even having enough energy to talk was too much for me. My doctor said I was finally into my "core issues" and was on the verge of a breakthrough, and with some changes of my medication, I have finally pulled back out of the depression and become functional again... which means... Mom is Mom again. And my daughter knows what that means. It's a dance, and she's in the lead. I'll follow her every step of the way, but she WILL learn to do her work and respect the rules; it's just a matter of HOW she will get there, and that is her choice. Whatever path she chooses, I'll be right there with her, doing whatever she requires that I do, even if it's not what either of us likes. I love her enough to be a real parent when she needs one.

Actually, I discovered with my (then) delinquent older daughter that children own NOTHING until they get older (I think the age depends on the state, but it's somewhere around 16-18). This even includes any gifts they receive or money they earn from legitimate work such as paper routes or babysitting. They own NOTHING. Their parents own it ALL.

So even if she did buy herself a computer (ha!), she must (1) obtain our permission to buy it and (2) follow our computer curfew rules because it does not matter whatsoever who plunked down the cash for the machine, she is still our child and we are still the parents and we are still obligated to set appropriate rules that are in her best interest which include things such as computer curfews. ;)

BTW, ownership was a major issue when my older daughter came home from Wilderness Camp. She came home to a completely stripped room that had been completely redecorated, even repainted, and was turned into a true Guest Room with all her stuff boxed up and removed (clothes, wall hangings, drawers, everything). And she was allowed to stay with us as a GUEST as long as she followed the rules that we would expect of any GUEST in our home. And if she was able to control herself and follow the rules we applied and had a good attitude and cooperated, then we would give her the opportunity to get some of her old belongings back and maybe even put up a few personal items in the room to make it feel more like her own room. This was her doctor's suggestion, and boy did it work! She was in absolute shock when she came home! But it really got her attention. She was, and we told her straight out, on borrowed time living with us. If she could not control herself, we would *lovingly* meet her needs by placing her in an appropriate facility for out-of-control teens. It's so amazing how a child who just 53 days earlier told us that she just could not control her anger as she proceeded to completely destroy her room (breaking her window and mirror, pulling shelves off the walls, throwing things, putting holes in the walls) could suddenly control her behavior so very well.

Almost all the kids that go to Wilderness Camp get sent to a Therapeutic Boarding School, and we had to really fight to not go along with the flow and bring her home. And I'm very happy to say that we did the right thing. :)

Correct assumption.

First of all, if she ever went that far, she'd find her butt in some really big trouble. As far as I know, there is nothing in the law that requires we allow her access to a computer whatsoever.

But I guess if it ever did get to that point, I would move the modem and router into my bedroom where I could simply unplug her ethernet cable, leaving mine intact (all computers are password protected, and she only knows the password to her computer).

What my daughter does is try to get away with things in a more passive manner. "Didn't see the time; almost done; ooops, I forgot." She's not openly defiant in her behaviors (other than talking back, but even that's more passive than directly aggressive). So I honestly don't think she's going to do things that will circumvent Mac Minder; at least not at her current stage. But I will definitely keep these alternatives in mind for future reference should we find ourselves in need of something more secure than just a software program.

I can hear the groans already as I have already gone off topic too much in this thread. How about I send you a PM later on this.

I don't think it is off-topic.
The best solution to a problem is not always a technological one.
When the problem is a parenting problem, discussion of the human issues may be valuable to future readers.
Of course you need to consider if you want your family issues stored by Google etc forever.

When my sister was in junior high ('98-'00) she home schooled via the 'net for a number of reasons (bad behaviour was NOT one of them). The program created a very computer-savvy child who knew where every game download site on the web was. We once dumped about 2000 game programs. It ran better after that. Today's technology would have been very useful in keeping her on track. The same school program now uses Macs instead of Windows 98 machines. I wonder why :D

Don't see a big problem. There must be a lot of Vickis in Texas.

That's the monitoring software I already have on her G4. But I'm not at all happy with it. They make the advertising sound so great by saying it captures all websites, keystrokes, emails, etc. But then look at the features list and keep in mind that all this software does is capture a series of screen shots. So, great, you get to see a series of screen shots. It's better than nothing, but just barely better.

P.S. Nothing like trying to post messages in the middle of the night while in bed using your PowerBook. I feel asleep after writing the above, but before hitting the Submit button! :p

So good morning to one and all! :D

As you are the moderator, then I will accept that I'm not infringing upon the rules of the board to answer the previous question.

As far as Google is concerned, whatever. I have never abused my kids, and this is real life. I have nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed of. I have to admit, I was probably one of the worst when it came to not believing in any psychological stuff, especially when people claimed to have depression. But then that was part of my upbringing. There were never any excuses for anything. You just get your GD work done and shut up. So I was abused, neglected and sexually abused for years and, through my therapy, discovered that I cannot remember most of my childhood (my memories begin around age 11), and I kept saying "I was fine; I don't need any help; it's all okay," I discovered that it's not fine, it's not okay, and it had affected me which then turned around and affected me as a parent. I could take anything myself, but I cannot sit by and watch my children be affected. So now, a year and a half later, I am about as opposite as it comes to some of this stuff. It's still a little difficult to admit that I've gone through depression and am on medication just to be functional, but at the same time, going through therapy (with the very best doctor in the entire world! :D) is the best thing I have ever done in my entire life. It's good for me as a person and for my life, it's good for me as a parent and for my kids, it's good for my husband and our marriage, and it's good for any and every person I meet each and every day. If only I had known to get help years ago. But at least I did it now.

But this means that now I am faced with having to unravel some of the problems that were created in past years with my own kids. It's not easy. I have no examples to follow. I certainly can't do what my parents did, and while I've read 100 parenting books and understand the "rules" of parenting (my doctor's partner even said he could write a book on my knowledge of parenting), figuring out how to use that information to go from where my kids are at this point to where they need to go is not at all an easy task. I have to balance showing them how loved they are with being firm as a parent while simultaneously changing former bad habits, bad attitudes, forming new trust while also learning how to deal with their ADD (older daughter), ADHD (younger daughter), ODD (older daughter no longer exhibits ODD behaviors :D while younger daughter is increasingly showing signs of ODD behavior), my own depression (I'm getting much better! :D), my social phobia (I used to be afraid to go out in my own front yard or roll down the windows in my car -- hence my long standing internet activity -- but that's greatly improving :D), my older daughter's social phobia (we've just pulled her out of school, and she's being placed into the "homebound" program under "Special Education, Emotionally Disabled") and more. I've completely severed all communication with my parents (my mother threw me out of the house, put my stuff in storage and mailed me the key when I finally told her about my father molesting me (this was after my father admitted that he had indeed molested me) and my father shows absolutely no remorse for what he did; instead he is angry that I dared to tell on him -- my parents are very mentally ill).

I go to therapy twice a week, an hour each visit. $300/hr. My older daughter sees the same doctor I see, once each week for an hour. My younger daughter sees a different therapist in the same group (can't remember her price, but she's not as expensive, but also not as experienced). My doctor is actually a psychiatrist who is the clinical director for a psychiatric hospital and the medical director for a treatment center PLUS does therapy in the evening. He also serves on many mental health boards as does his wife, sometimes in the position of president or chairman. He is very passionate about helping people and is absolutely unbelievably consistent and calm and extremely intelligent and experienced while doing things that I believe are way beyond what most doctors would do while being very firm at keeping the patient/doctor boundaries strong and never crossed. He is always very respectful, never makes me feel belittled or guilty, while he explains to me things such as how the brain functions and the development of the brain and how my childhood affected my development. Part of my therapy involves "integration" which he says will leave me with a little version of him running around inside of me (yes, that sounds bizarre! LOL!). He says this is what normally happens to a baby between the ages of birth to 1 year with its mother, but because my mother just threw me in a crib and walked away, it never happened for me, and while it feels very awkward and somewhat embarrassing to go through this at my age of 45 because I am actually going through some of the stages a baby goes through with a parent with him, at the same time, I can also feel the difference it's making inside of me.

Sometimes it's mind-boggling to even comprehend it all. So I continue to remind myself of my friend's question: "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time." So today, my depression is much better; I am functional again. My social phobia and many of the fears are getting better. I still PTSD in schools (I was badly bullied throughout my school years -- I never asked for help because I thought I deserved it since that's all I knew from my home life), but my doctor is helping me by personally attending any really important meetings with the school regarding my older daughter and his wife who is a psychiatric nurse and an absolutely wonderful support is available to help me anytime I need; she will come and be with me the entire time I need her with me at the schools.

When this is all done, I think I will return to college and actually study psychology. I wish I was younger and had more time to focus more on the actual brain itself, but that would require medical school, and since I've only completed half of my undergraduate studies in college, I don't think I'd have enough time to go through the full process of medical school, residency, and then actually get to work in a field studying the brain. But I do think I can get a PhD in psychology with enough time to actually DO something with it. And to think that I used to think the entire field of psychology was nothing but quackery! LOL! What a change this has made in me!

So... if there is any parent out there reading this and you have had an abusive childhood, get help. Even if you think you're okay and don't need help, the fact is it HAS affected you, and it will come out in ways you don't even know. And it WILL affect you as a parent, and your kids will pay the price. Dysfunctional parents raise dysfunctional children who grow up to raise more dysfunctional children, and the cycle continues until someone finally screams STOP and gets help. If you don't do it for yourself, do it for your children, your husband, and for everyone you come in contact with because it DOES affect every part of your being. You just don't know it because the way you are is all you have ever known so it seems perfectly normal. It was my love for my children that caused me to get help. My only regret is not knowing sooner and getting help sooner. True therapy is the hardest thing you will ever do in your life, but it's also the best thing you will ever do for your life.

Okay, enough rambling. :o

If you are using remote desktop you can just lock the computer down from ARD. Just turn access off in ARD for any clients past a certian time. You don't even have to shut the machine down. However if she reboots the machine iit may override.

This is actually a HUGE question. But the simple answer is YES. Absolutely YES.

Everything seemed okay with my kids in their younger years, except that my older daughter never seemed to be able to take on any form of responsibility. This affected her at home and at school. As she continued in school, her lack of responsibility began affecting her grades, and me, not understanding what was going on (ADD), I just got harder and harder on her. Punishments increased with absolutely no affect. I even grounded her, at a teacher's suggestion, from EVERYTHING until she raised her grades to passing only to have her continue to fail and not get herself off the grounding for 4 full months which ended only because school ended. Tell me, what child will ever endure that kind of punishment and STILL not raise her grades when she is well above average in intelligence? It baffled me to no end, and I accused her of being lazy and not caring about her future. (See above message about my upbringing to explain my response.)

When she entered high school, two weeks into the 9th grade, she started claiming she had a stomach ache and couldn't go to school. After two days of this (with no signs of distress while she stayed at home), her father and I agreed that she was going to school the next day, stomach ache or no stomach ache. That was when she showed me that she was cutting herself. She had been cutting her arms and legs. I was horrified.

Still, I didn't quite understand the full implication of what was going on. She promised she had done it only one time, and I, being far too ignorant at the time, believed her. Upon checking her school work, I discovered that she had not done ANY of her work at all so I then contacted her counselor and teachers to work out a plan to catch her up. She worked endlessly for 10 days, but got it all caught up. I thought the "big emergency" was over.

A few weeks later, her school counselor called to say she had received a tip that my daughter was planning to run away to meet up with a boy she had befriended on the internet. My world fell apart.

Ignorance be damned. I immediately checked her computer and found his address and directions to his house (in another state). I also found that this boy was in a mental hospital, bipolar, and claimed to be a satanist. And most frightening of all, my daughter was in contact with college age people who were willing to help her get to this boy -- which meant they had the money and ability to transport her. I came completely unglued. I then checked every nook and cranny in her room. Fortunately, absolutely no signs of substance abuse, but I did find and read her journals and diaries which then told the story of her life that she had never told anyone. What I now understand was a result of ADD, my daughter talked about her failures. She started out in early childhood, hoping to do well at something, only to fail. By the time she was a teenager, she believed she could not succeed at anything to the point that even when something was going right, she knew it was only a matter of time before she screwed it up and failed. What I now understand is she was dealing with undiagnosed ADD "inattentive type" which caused her to be unable to keep up with following through with school work and homework. Hence, she would do great on tests, but kept getting zeros for missing work which caused her to continuously fail. Since she had no idea she had ADD and she could never "fix" her problem on her own, she grew to believe that she was a failure. The pressure mounting, she began to cut herself. Fortunately, the school she's in is EXCELLENT and the school psychologist and counselor advised me to get her into therapy.

What we also did not know is she has social phobia. I also have it, and there is a genetic link to it. What we thought was "cute" in her younger years (like when she would hold up her younger sister to talk to people for her), we now know were the early signs of her social phobia. This is also why she never told us anything about what was really going on in her life. She simply never talked to anyone about anything of any importance. It was all locked up inside of her which is another reason why she used cutting as her outlet.

My first response was to protect her. NO internet satanist bipolar boyfriend! Passwords on everything! Change the house alarm to a code she doesn't know so she can't run away at night without us knowing it! Track her very closely if she did go out with anyone! Control! Control! Control! What did it get me? An extremely angry and defiant child. And me, having no therapy yet, kept pushing her more and more with threats about how her life will be in the gutter, she'll be living on the streets, etc. Oh, yes, that really helped. NOT. It only helped her to be more angry and afraid and to cut more.

She was absolutely unresponsive to therapy. Would not talk to her therapist. Went through 2 different therapists with no affect whatsoever. By this time, I had become so distraught that I had began to become depressed "situational depression" which is how I met my doctor -- for medications. In the basic history interview, he found out about my childhood and knew I needed help even though I had no clue. And in his very wise way, he helped lead me into understanding that I needed help. Eventually, I agreed to enter therapy.

I worked hard in my therapy, but my daughter continued to be unresponsive. I realized that this was getting bigger and bigger and that my younger daughter would become the "lost child" so I put her in therapy to help her with all that was going on at home to be sure she had support. At the time, she was doing well -- in fact, a little TOO well. She was playing the "hero child" roll. As a "lost child/hero child" myself, I knew the signs and wanted to be sure she did not put too much on her own self to be a little adult when she was still a child.

Things got more and more explosive with my older daughter to the point she was openly defiant and out of control. We had talked to her about Wilderness Camp many times and had given her a few very clear rules as to how she could avoid going. But by the time she finished 9th grade, she made it clear everything we were doing was not working. We switched her to see the same doctor I was seeing, and he gave us some excellent advice. While my daughter was in finals at school, I was finalizing the paperwork for her Wilderness Camp. A day before her plane was to take off, we told her she was going, and she ran out of the house. She finally came back home, but we feared she would be physically resistant to getting on the plane so for a whopping $5,000 we hired escorts to take her (this is a common service for this purpose). They came, took her without force, stayed with her on the plane, and never left her until she was in the hands of the people at the Wilderness Camp. It was extremely scary for me, especially because of my concerns of sexual abuse. But we had no other choice.

While she was at camp, we worked very hard on how to handle things when she got home. I've mentioned earlier what we did. Our plans worked very well. Part of our plans had to include allowing her to hit "rock bottom." One thing about people and therapy. They do not reach out for help and truly participate in therapy unless something really BIG has made them desperate enough that they'll do ANYTHING for help. So what do you do when a teenager absolutely refuses therapy? Allow her to feel the full impact of her own actions. Some call it natural consequences. Part of this included allowing her to fail at school. We did not require her to do homework. We allowed her to play on the computer as much as she wanted. During this entire time, we removed all pressures from her and just loved her. We loved her when she stunk from not taking showers. We loved her even when she was failing. We found anything and everything she was doing good and praised her for it. And with my therapy, I learned to stop raging and was much more calm. We allowed her to be in contact with her satanic internet boyfriend (whom I had hired a private detective to confirm he was a boy and not a predator), and because I monitored her computer activity, I knew he was actually harmless. I even went so far as to mirror her fantasy of them getting married by telling her that if he was her choice for her husband, we would accept him into our family with open arms. We told her we accepted her choice of being a satanist, even though we did not agree with it, but as she grows into adulthood we won't always agree with everything she chooses (as she may not always agree with our choices), but we will respect her choices and still love her. I truly understand the meaning of unconditional love.

At first, she thought she had died and gone to heaven! But as the first semester came close to ending, she then began to panic about her grades. FINALLY she stopped blaming everyone else and began to take real responsibility for her own actions. And rather than having US tell her how this would affect her future, SHE began to become very afraid of her own future. Which caused her to do exactly what we wanted. She crashed so hard that she finally began to squeak out the first few words to ask for help. Through that, we discovered her social phobia, and her doctor took immediate steps to place her into the homebound program.

This child, who a year ago was so angry all her journal writings were about how to kill me (to the point, I was truly afraid), is now talking to me about her emotions and asking me to help her bring up subjects with her doctor so he can help her with them. She is calm, not cutting, no longer angry, very respectful of the rules in our home, and is accepting me back into her life as the role of a loving mother that she so much needs.

We still have a long road ahead of us with her, but we've finally turned the corner and the future looks very promising. I believe we will get through all of this, she will finish high school, and be able to do well in college. I'm so glad we did this NOW when most kids crash when they finally get away from their parents and go to college because most parents cannot and will not allow their kids to fail in high school. But if you find that YOU are the one more concerned about your child's grades than the child, then it's time to back off and let the child take over. If they're going to crash, do it when they are still under your roof and still legally under your care.

Yikes! My reply was too long! :eek: Part II below...

Part II now...

So now comes younger daughter. She's stopped playing the hero/lost child role, and she's begun making some noise herself. Yikes! Just as I get one child on the right road, the other starts to act up. Part of this is normal teenage rebellion and hormones. She's 13, and you know what that means hormonally with girls. But I also think she's trying to get attention. Plus, mixed in with it all is her ADHD and her misguided belief that the world revolves around her and only her (which is my fault).

She has been very close to me until very recently. In early November, we allowed her to visit her best friend who had moved to another state. The day before she was to return home, I left to go to a 3 week stay at a treatment center (not for substance abuse, but to deal with my anger at my parents and my social phobia). While I was gone, my younger daughter re-enacted my older daughter's behavior to the letter. She took 2 knives to school and scratched her skin (did not actually cut herself) and told her friends she was cutting. She even wrote journals that were just like her older sister's (except these were brand new, not from several years like her sister). Of course, someone reported the knives, and she got into huge trouble at school. She was immediately suspended and then sent to a special Behavioral Learning Center school for a month. This is what I came home to from my treatment center (it was discussed and agreed to not tell me the details of what was going on while I was at the treatment center, and I agree everyone did the right thing).

Ever since then, she has been more and more defiant regarding the rules. She's always pressed the rules and has been passively defiant. But she's becoming more openly defiant now. Her grades are becoming very bad. She's not doing her chores. She disregarding the rules. And she talks back when we speak to her. This is a mixture of old behavior and new behavior, but it's increasing strongly.

Part of the problem is the influence of her older sister. Her sister's needs do not match her needs, and it's difficult to treat two children so differently at the same time. When my older daughter was placed on homebound, she was told to stay home immediately even though the paperwork had not yet gone through and we didn't have any actual work for her to work on yet. No Special Ed teachers were assigned. No tutors yet. Nothing. Since she has been really glued to an online game called Runescape, her doctor decided to let her have her fill of it, knowing that everything looses its luster when you've had too much of it. So he advised us to allow her to play the game 24/7. All she wanted. No restrictions whatsoever. Once again, my older daughter thought she was in sheer heaven! No school work, no bedtimes, and no computer curfew! Wow!! But just as predicted, the game has become somewhat boring to her now. Playing that game hour after hour after hour for several weeks has grown boring. It's taking the thrill out of it. She started out staying up all night, going to bed at 7am and waking up in the afternoon. But after a few weeks of that, she then decided (ON HER OWN!!) she wanted to turn her schedule around. Now she's going to sleep at 9:30pm and waking up around 7:30am. She did that. All on her own. I am so very thrilled and proud!

While my younger daughter was at the "other" school, she was not allowed to have any homework. So she developed a habit of coming home and playing. She was not allowed to take anything to or from the school (highly restricted because weapons, drugs, etc.). I couldn't get a real handle on how her grades were going because everything kept coming back with "incomplete" because her work had to be transferred back and forth between her real school and this "other" school so the teachers had to assign and grade her work separately from the normal class schedule. When she finally returned to her real school, I noticed she wasn't doing homework. But when I inquired, she claimed she had done it at school. Uh huh. I wasn't buying that story, but I waited and watched.

Sure enough, I finally got a real progress report, and it isn't pretty. Several failing grades with comments of "missing major projects, missing/incomplete assignments." Doing it at school? Right. Sure. I thought not.

So now I have two kids who are absolutely hooked on this stupid runescape game on the computer. The very first thing they do when they wake up is go to the computer. They will even RUN to the bathroom and back to not miss anything on that game. Which brings me to where I am now...

My first job is to control the computer usage. With my older daughter, she is obeying the rules so I know she will get off the computer when she is told. She knows if she begins to break our curfew rules, she will face consequences that are worse than what happens when she simply obeys the curfews. When she finally gets set up with a tutor and her homebound schoolwork (which is almost set up now), her computer time will be highly restricted. She will spend most of her day doing school work.

As far as my younger daughter is concerned, being able to shut down the computer automatically is excellent. It worked very well last night. We overheard her tell her boyfriend on the phone 4 minutes before shutdown time that she only had 4 minutes left (even thought Mac Minder gives the warning 2 minutes before time). So she IS watching the clock and very aware of the time. I knew she could do it! :D Also, being able to send her instant messages and instantly locking her out remotely will teach her to get her chores done ON TIME. If she's in a battle in the game and gets locked out, so be it. It is HER job to watch the time and ensure she isn't in a battle when it's time for chores, not mine. If she dies in a battle, that's HER choice, not mine. All I do is enforce the rules. And now I can do it without any argument or physical battles. I just sit at my PowerBook, send her a message, watch her "live" with the screen shots, and if I see she has not stopped playing on the computer, I simply lock her out. And I will unlock her once she has completed her work. If she is defiant, she may receive an extra "computer time out" penalty of being locked out for extra time after her chores are completed.

As time goes on, I can then keep the computer locked out later and later in the day so she cannot get on it the instant she wakes up in the morning or when she comes home from school which will both break those bad habits and redirect her to do her homework and chores FIRST.

As far as her back-talking, I simply set her straight when she does it. I stay calm and don't yell, but at the same time, I don't take it. I know how to use a firm, but not angry, voice. I am able to love her, be proud of her, and treat her with respect while simultaneously maintaining my position as her parent. I am very analytical by nature, and my doctor has told me that I've really come a long way and have actually become a bit of a mini-therapist in how I'm handling the kids. I encourage them to speak about how they feel and talk with them about why certain rules are as they are (and that even *I* don't always like applying them, but I know it is my job as a parent to apply them, and I love them enough to BE a parent). I also know how to use "nonetheless, regardless, etc." the rule still stands and not get into a battle of the wills or allow them to engage me into a strategic battle of the details. I can hear their thoughts and feelings, empathize with them, let them know I've heard them and empathize with them, but remain firm that the rule still stands.

So how will I handle the problem? One bite at a time. It's a very complex mixture of many things with the computer issue being only one part of it. It is simply a tool I can use to resolve a problem in a non-confrontational manner.

I know my kids, and I know my younger daughter will not openly try to defeat the software. But if I'm wrong, I'm ready to handle it. As I continue to remind her... it's a dance, and she's in the lead. I will follow her wherever she takes me. I will never give up or leave her side. I will be tough when I must be while loving her every inch of the way. And I will always be there for her when she needs me. But I truly do love her enough to do what I must do FOR HER which includes teaching her to follow the rules and get her work done. She can hate me and be mad at me, it's okay. I can take it. Because I know she truly loves me. And I know what I am doing is the right thing for her. This is what a parent does for their children.

My parents told me at the age of 14 that they considered me an adult in their eyes which meant I could do anything I wanted. Their excuse? They said this would allow me to "practice" being an adult while I was still young enough for them to legally get me out of jail. What an absolute cop out! They did not want to be parents. It's WORK to be a parent. Me? I'm more than ready and willing to do the job. Whatever it takes.

So the short answer to the question... what will I do with the underlying parenting issue? Whatever I must do. Anything and everything. And never, ever give up. My children are worth that and so much more. My children are worth everything. But most of all, work as hard as I can in my own therapy so I can be the best person, and therefore, the best parent I can possibly be.

Does that answer the question? :D May the groans begin. LOL! :p

Mac Minder doesn't actually do a shut down. It appears to do nothing more than put up a screen saver that requires a password to remove. Which is actually very good because it means she can allow her programs to continue to work while she's gone which I have no problem with.

So far, I'm really liking Mac Minder. In fact, I just checked, and she's not at the computer yet. So I just manually locked her out. She can get on AFTER she's cleaned up her room. :D I like this flexibility and ease of control. It's turning out to be a very efficient tool for a parent like me who simply needs to get a computer obsessed kid to get off the computer!

Speaking of which... this computer obsessed mom has yardwork calling my name. :)

Excellent! While I was typing earlier, my husband was working things out with my younger daughter that she would stop playing on the computer and clean her room at 2pm. So I reset the time to lock her out at 2pm. And sure enough, Mac Minder locked her out at 2pm!

She just came running out begging for "just one minute" to do something on her game because she hadn't noticed the time. I agreed to allow it ONLY THIS ONE TIME. About 30 seconds later, she came back saying she was done and THANKED ME for giving her that extra 30 seconds.

Ah, yes, this is how it should be. Instead of her giving me excuses as to why she's not doing her work, she's thanking me for allowing her an extra 30 seconds.

Mac Minder, I think I love you! :D

didnt read all entries
 

i didnt read all entries but in ur router add her mac address to access restrictions then deny acces during times she is not allowed on. very simple and other computers will still have access.

vicki

thanks for the review. I work for a school district and something like this may be handy for what we do. I also sub contract as an onsite technician on the side.

I just got back from a clients house tonight that has two young kids (like 6 and 9) and they are inheriting their father's old imac. I installed and set up the new imac for my client but for the kids I had to set up a bunch of parental controls. I just used the built in ones available in tiger because I was unfamiliar with all third party apps.

After reading the features from lumasoft's page and your review I can say I am impressed. The time and day feature has been part of windows group policy since NT4 (i think, maybe it was 2000) and I have been wanting apple to develope a more robust group policy where you can even micromanage the time users are allowed to access certain resources, apps, or even the computer itself. Macminder does this, and it is a feature that I wish OS X would just put in natively. I administer both macs and PCs at both my jobs, so I get to work in both enviroments, and i wish I could just take the best of each OS and drop the bad parts and just make that my OS of choice:D

Only a few things concern me, because I must admit, some of these high school kids today are pretty smart, and they find out how to hack stuff all the time.

Resetting the PMU/SMU sometimes resets the date back to 1960 or whatever, I am curious to how that will effect macminder. What happens if you reboot the system and log back in. I read that the new feature of mac minder is that it has its own master password and does not use the admin password. I suppose tossing an open firmware password on a system would not allow the users to boot off an OS disc, change the password, or be able to boot into open firmware. A physical lock on the case would not allow them to reset the PMU (except for the new imacs and some laptops which can be reset by key commands, or in the imacs case, automatically).

We use a PC app called NetOP, and it is pretty sweet. It allows teachers to broadcast their desktop (ie show every student what is on their computer), take over their desktop, lock them out of certain applications, shut their system off, monitor, and do one on one chat learning sessions. They do not make a mac version. it also runs in stealth mode, meaning no process shows up as running in task manager so they can't kill it via gui or command line. it installs in stealth mode and we push it out over our network so it can be installed via network.

I am doing summer projects right now, and worked about a 16 hour day today with both my jobs, so once we calm down and get the bulk of our summer projects done at the schools I want to download macminder and give it a whirl, but for now I will pass their link over to our head macintosh admin.

I would be really interested to hear your full report of what you think about mac minder. Also just curious if you have the application running on the client side (aka your kids computer) does the process show up in the terminal ir you run a top command? I know that making the user a simple user and not granting them access to the terminal would bypass this, but I am just curious.

If it did, that leaves a way for the user to kill the process, there would be hacking involved and well if you kid pulled it off I would consider them gifted, and you should probably enroll them in some sort of computer course.

Like I said earlier kids these days are smart, working in a school district I can not even begin to tell you how many computers we find hacked and loaded with just tons and tons of video games. I have even watched kids play unreal tournament in the computer labs. So not only are they hacking them, but they are setting up dedicated game servers and playing each other over our network in the computer labs! LOL Its not my job to punish the students because I work IT, and am not a teacher. However I do have to reimage the system when they hack the crap out of it. I don't get mad, I consider that job security!;)

Mac Minder question(s)
 

My daughter and son have a computer (imac with intel processor) that they use quite a bit. They mostly visit the disney channel and play lots of MarbleBlast (Ok, I also play a lot of MarbleBlast too).

There are two accounts on the computer. Me as the administrator and their account which is under parental control.

I am using the administrative account for Backup, remoted desktop login as well as running an Apache Web Server.

Will Macminder allow you to lock out the children's account while letting you into the administrative account to continue to do work? Or does Macminder lock out the entire computer?

I like the screen saver idea in the sense that the computer is locked out and what is happening on the screen is not being displayed. Currently, when I am doing administrative work on the imac, everything is visible. Sometimes my daughter will inadvertantly log me out or quickly switch to her account via fast user switching while I am in the middle of an upgrade.

kind regards
RLC

Pretty good software, but missing a curtain for admin account.
 

I downloaded the software and put it on my children's computer. I am able to easily set limits on their use and effectively lock their account.

The problem that I have is since I also use the computer via remote login, I need to have a curtain or screen saver that will not display the admin work that I am doing. If they see an account open, such as the admin account, they will mess with it in unintented ways. They do not know if an account belongs to them or the administrator.

So for now, this software wouldn't work for me unless it has an admin curtain, lock, or screen saver that will allow me to work remotely without letting my children know that there is an available account to play with.

If anyone knows of something that provides the scheduling of mac minder plus the curtain for admin, please reply.

with warm regards
RLC

System Preferences -> Security -> Require password to wake this computer from sleep or screen saver

System Preferences -> Dashboard & Exposé -> put Start Screen Saver in a corner.

Start your screen saver before leaving the computer alone. Any active processes will continue.

I think version 3 of Apple Remote Desktop (an expensive option, no doubt about it) will permit you to lock the screen from the client machine while you work on it. There are surely less expensive options available, but this is listed in the feature set of ARD.

Joe VanZandt

More cheaper options...
 

Ok, what are they? Curtains please:confused:

ctwnospam as soon as I log into the admin account remotely, the screen saver goes aways. So your options will not work for my purpose. I need the display to be visible only on the remote display and the curtain to be on the machine being accessed.

kind regards
RLC

I take it you can't do what it is you want to do via the command-line? If you can do it via the command-line, just SSH in and you are good to go.

Doesn't hurt to try.
 

I will try to ssh but I am not sure if this will disable the display on the admin machine. Mabye there is a command for disabling the admin display while you work on it remotely. Currently, I don't know what that command would be, do you?

kind regards
RLC

I did contact the developer of mac minder about adding the curtain feature and here is his reply,

"Hi Ronald,

To be honest, it will probably not appear in Mac Minder. I try to keep my software simple and only add features that will benefit a majority of the customers. You're the first person to ever ask for this. Sorry about that.

John
"

Well at least he is honest, it just seems natural to have a curtain in an application like this. Wouldn't you agree?

kind regards
RLC

I know that a VNC programs for Windows allows you to stop the person from using the mouse or keyboard while you admin the computer, but it doesn't cover the screen.

Ok, locking the hardware on the admin is still a solution.
 

I am currently using chicken of the vnc. It doesn't seem to have the ability to freeze the hardware (keyboard, mouse, display, etc...) while I am logged in remotely to the administrative account.

Any cheap VNC that will do this? Please reply.

with kind regards
RLC

Man I can not be 100% on this, but I thought that ARD had a lock workstation option when remoting in, preventing the user from use. However, the whole "curtain" thing I am not sure of, however if you were able to lock the work station while admin they should not be able to control the system until you log out and end your session

From the ARD site:

which clearly indicates it has a curtain mode. But it IS $300 unless you can manage to eBay it with luck.

Joe VanZandt

Well with SSH it doesn't matter who is logged in. Any user could be logged in and you could still SSH in as the admin. Does that work for you?

Yes, it will work in some cases.
 

I guess as long as I can be tied to the terminal, it will work. How about when I need to use a GUI? Does the same rule apply?

I still need to get around to setting up ssh on the machine.

kind regards
RLC

Nope, if you want to use the GUI you are back to your original quest. What do you need the GUI for?

OSX VNC, now called Vine Server, from Redstone Software, might be able to log into the GUI while another account is active.

I like the terminal, but I am not in love with it.
 

I might have to read a pdf document or view images or visit a web page on the remote machine. I might want to change the setting in parental control. There is probably a way to do all of this via the terminal, but I am spoiled on GUI's for the most part.

I have Vine Server installed on one machine with the vnc viewer being cotvnc and there is no way to lock the screen. I just read the vine viewer document and it doesn't mention a way to lock the display either.

So for now, it appears that Apples has a monopoly on this feature. $300 is steep, so I will not pay that because it is overkill for what I need to do.

with warm regards.

Oh, this will be so much easier in Leopard. Apple includes exactly what you're talking about in the next OS, with a bunch of parental control features to set usage hours for kids, web content filters, etc. I hope, for the mean time, this MacMinder thing will work for you 'til January.

I thought Leopard was going to be released in Spring of 07?


I do agree though adding ACLs and more parental controls will be nice, especially if its native. I really hope they offer a lite version of remote desktop built in natvie as well.

Leapard and parental control.
 

I am not seeing anywhere on their site where they talk about a curtain or locking the mouse and keyboard while you remotely log into the admin account in Leopard.

I do agree with the previous post that there should be a lite version of ARD. However, I will not hold my breath.

with warm regards
RLC

I couldn't agree more Hayne. I was a teenager not too long ago, and even though my parents are not nearly as computer savvy as vicki seems to be, i would be absolutely crushed if my parents did that to me behind my back.

What i think a good solution is, you tell her you won't monitor her usage until her curfew time. Any time after that, is fair game. It'll make her not want to use the computer past 9.

Fine for teenagers, but an 8 year old don't care.
 

Yes, maybe true for a teenager, but an 8 year old could care less. They will just ask you if they can do certain things. Besides, there are a lot of portable games that they can get hook on without being on a computer. Some of the portable games are even more exciting than the computer because they can carry it around everywhere they go.

with warm regards
RLC

I agree with this as a general rule, but there are exceptions, and Vicki's situation is one of them.

It's been a while since I was a teenager, but I have a much younger brother who is, and he is very troubled - years of defiance, running away, alcohol abuse, car theft, cutting, etc. I wish my father and his wife would be as vigilant as Vicki. Not even a recent o.d. has convinced them to stop making excuses and start parenting.

j

I have created a launch daemon that will shutdown the machine at a certain time, regardless of whatever you are in the middle of doing.

Would be very easy to adjust it to say compare the current time to a time range like say between 11PM and 9AM, if the current time falls between the range, the machine will shutdown without prompts.

Having the daemon load at startup would make it completely impossible to use the machine between those times. If the machine is booted between those times it will shutdown right away before the desktop even appears.

Does resetting the time/date get around the daemon? I still recommend you do this at the router level, but that is what I would do.

Okay, it could retrieve the date and time from a website. Then it could not be changed.

Might that be better as a login script (the comparison one)?

What if a user who is not to be shut down needs to login?

well, first off, the dat & time prefernce panel can be locked so that it can't be changed without an administrator password.

second, I'm thinking it might be easier to do this using sleep or a screensaver. rather than shutting down the machine, just put it to sleep or throw up a screensaver and require a password. that way you don't have to deal with login items.

Well, then if you wanted to get that precise you better put a firmware lock on it also. Because target mode booting, and booting from an install DVD can compromise the machine. Then you should lock the case as well, so they can't do the physical firmware reset. All of these methods of compromising the Mac can be easily googled and even learned from Apple's support kbase.

Working in education and with kids who like to tinker we have had to physically lock all cases down, use firmware passwords, and lock down a lot of access in the OS via policy.

except we're talking about a home computer, with a limited number of users. it's unlikely the kid has another computer her parents don't know about to boot in target mode, and occasional and casual inspection will tell the parent immediately if the machine has been tampered with.

but enough said on a year old thread... ;)

use apple remote desktop

Ok, I'm glad I never paid for macminder as it is no where to be found. It has been pulled from versiontracker and macupdate.

No offense, but dear god...
 

Let me preface this by saying that I realize this is a tech forum, but this issue hit so close to home I couldn't help but reply.

I really do mean no disrespect, but what the hell are you thinking? Spy software, "wilderness camps", PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS???

My parents were just like you. They employed everything from time limits and consequences to corporal punishment, and I just did not care. I was sent to juvenile boot camp run by the USMC (three months at a time) TWICE, therapy sessions, juvenile detention facilities (dozens of times), anger management classes, substance abuse classes and the like. Nothing you can do will force your child to obey you, and you need to accept that. I understand that you feel the need to control your child because you think it will make her a better person and keep her safe, but all you are doing is making sure that when your child is an adult she will want nothing to do with you. BELIEVE ME!

I do understand the need to maintain control of your own home, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Obviously you need to take drugs seriously (they almost killed me and several of my friends, and cocaine actually was responsible for one friend's death), but you do need to realize that kids will do as they please. I think the most important thing I can tell you is that the more you try to crack down while your child is at home, the more likely it is that they will do something stupid on purpose as soon as they are away from you. Case in point: My parents told me not to smoke, I did so just to piss them off (and still cannot kick that habit over a decade later). My parents said no sex, I climbed on top of anyone that was willing. My parents said no drugs, I spent all of my lunch money and allowance on pot, coke and meth. My parents said respect authority, I slashed the tires of police vehicles. I could go on and on, but you seem like an intelligent person so I'm sure you got my point already...

I realize that you don't want to hear any of this, and will probably disregard my message completely, but I feel compelled to at least give it a shot for the sake of your youngest child (as well as the sake of your relationship with her after she leaves your home).

I am 24 years old now. I am married to a wonderful woman, have a steady job and my own home. I haven't touched a chemical in almost four years. This is because I decided that the things I was doing weren't right, not because of some fear or set of rules my parents instilled in me. What I hope you take away from my admittedly rambling message is: IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CONTROL ANOTHER HUMAN BEING, EVEN IF THAT PERSON IS YOUR CHILD. Loosen the reigns a little bit, and they will be just fine. Trial and error is how all of us grow into adults, don't take that away from your kids.

-RJ-

p.s. I too was testing at college level from 7th grade up, while most of my "partners in crime" were testing at or below the average range, so I really do not think the intelligence level of your children makes much difference. Kids will be kids...

Talk about dredging up a very old thread! But to the above poster, I have only one comment.

I was not trying to control my child. I was controlling my computer equipment.

It's what real parents do even when the children protest. It's called parenting.

Taking away the computer is no different than taking away the car keys. Children do not have a right to the computer. Computers are a privilege in which the child earns through good behavior not through assertions of entitlement or the acting out of temper tantrums.

Regarding your behavior at various ages, it might interest you to know that the brain's frontal lobes—which is the executor over judgment, impulse control, and long-term planning—is not fully developed until the mid-20s. As such, it is common for adolescents to act out in childish ways until around age 25. So we are in agreement with your assertion in which "kids will be kids..." That is until they grow up. Until then, it is wise to have parents who parent and are not manipulated by a child's acting out when the parent tells them no.

Rj9450: One question - did you read the *entire* story, start to finish, including other threads on the same subject?

If you haven't, then you are really in no position to comment like that.

Also consider that by the time things get to this point (asking in public fora for technical assistance) the social methods have already been tried and have failed.

I don't think my point landed...
 

To AcmeMailOrder: Yes, I read the "*entire story*" from beginning to end. I feel that I am just as qualified to comment on an internet discussion as you are, or any of the other people who commented. The only reason I commented on a thread this old was because the topic hit home for me.

To Vicki: I sent you a more detailed private message, so this is mostly for the sake of anyone else who is reading and interested. I was not trying to imply that kids should have no boundaries. I very much believe a child should earn privileges, and go without them when they act up. All I wanted to get across is that I disagreed with the methods that were being discussed. If a kid can't be trusted on a computer, take it away instead of installing spyware and hiring private investigators.

Having said that I disagree with her, I want to say publicly that I have nothing but respect for a woman who cares about her children as much as Vicki clearly does.

I'd like to say publicly that I think this thread has run its course, so it is now closed.