cool internet radio station
 

have you all been here yet?

http://pandora.com

I have been playing around with it all week and so far I only found one artist it could not pull up a song for, minus the local bands I already tried.

That is Cooooool....

wow...I'm impressed. The only bad thing is now I need to buy a bunch more music :(

oh yeah pandoras awesome ive been listening to it for a couple months it's really sweet. there's a widget by the way for it too. there's also a way to get the music from pandora but i'm not gonna mention it...since it's illegal.

widgets:
http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashb...aplaylist.html

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/28849

Pandora is amazing, I've been listening non-stop since I discovered it a few weeks ago. It even has most of the not-so-famous groups I listen to! Hmm.. I think I'm going to go listen some more now :)

yeah it plays turbonegro, which is totally awesome

yeah i was amazed by it too. when i typed some of the music i like which doesnt get played on the radio or tv for that matter was there. i use the widgets so i dont have to keep a browser open all the time it takes a fair amount of ram and cpu but at least the music keeps playing.

The Norwegian group? Rather tongue-in-cheek, but it’s got a real kick to it.

That would be the one!

Also, if you guys have time, my friends band the Architects are band of the day at http://spin.com Please if you got a second go check them out and vote for them so they can get band of the week. They will be playing at south by southwest this year too if anyone is interested.

thanks

You’ve got my vote! Best of luck!! :)

thanks, they work hard and deserve to get somewhere.

The only catch with Pandora is that I think after a trial period you got to pay for it, but it's really cool.

@lostduck

no its been free for a while used to cost money not now. if you pay the adverts will go away though.

This thread prompted me to visit the Pandora site, which startled me so much I decided to join macosxhints to pose this question.

When I went to Pandora, the program loaded in the small window presented on the web page and told me it was retrieving my personal music info. With no input from me, a song began that was in my iTunes library, though not on the list I was playing. The song is so obscure and so old, it defies any explanation of coincidence. It's a Paul Whiteman number recorded 70 years ago. Along with the song, Pandora brought up a Paul Whiteman album picture.

Every time I go to the site, another number plays from my iTunes library; one was an acoustically recorded number by King Oliver that predates 1927, so it's hardly popular now. I don't have that mp3, but I have a King Oliver iTunes folder full of his stuff. The latest connection to Pandora conjured up Song of India by Tommy Dorsey, recorded in 1938. I have it.

How was this possible without that site scanning my drive, or at least my iTunes library?

I'm reluctant to use Pandora's email link to ask directly because if scans occur, why wouldn't the site say so? And Pandora may not answer because my ISP shows I'm not in the U.S., so I can't register, anyway.

There's a much larger issue, however. If Pandora scanned my Mac, it makes all the horrors of running a Windows box pale in comparison. Personal file sharing is off, the Mac's built-in firewall is on, along with its three options, and I have iTunes blocked with Little Snitch.

What's going on?

weird, I don't use itunes can't say...

I am going to say that since you can purchase music from pandora.com from the ITMS, it is reading your metadata off of your itunes files, and choosing songs you may want to listen to or perhaps purchase online via ITMS,

This is really interesting, since this IMHO, would be considered spyware and itunes is perhaps the culprit.

With out looking into this yet, my first guess would be it is 100% related to itunes, which will be another reason I hate itunes and won't use it!

For me, it just has my custom radio stations and loads them up when I pull up the site via web cache and cookies...

The very first time you went to the site, you were asked to enter an artist or song name of music that you like. Pandora then found that song or a song by that artist and played it -- it didn't come from your hard drive though, it came from some online database that it accesses. When that song is done, it picks another song related to the artist/song you initially entered to give you more tastes or similar music that it thinks you'll like.

You just happened to have some of the songs that it chose based on you initial input, and you happened to not have some of the songs it chose as well. All of the song's info and album artwork all comes from some internet database loaded with a very wide range music that Pandora accesses and streams to you.

And when you return to Pandora, you'll see all of your "stations" still listed. It knows it's you because of a Flash cookie I'm assuming.

Anyways, it is not scanning or accessing your hard drive -- it's simply playing music that it thinks you like (based on your input), some of which you happen to also have on your computer. (Which makes sense considering you entered an artist you like, so you also have it in iTunes.)

I hope that answered your question (and made sense). :)

PS (my opinion of Pandora): I'm addicted to it now too -- and it is pretty impressive because it does seem to contain all the "non-mainstream" artists that I like. Awexome.

That's the problem. I didn't have time to enter anything. I simply watched the progress bar, then the music began.

I've never purchased anything from the iTunes store, so in my case, at least, there can be no link with its database.

I went back to Pandora and deleted the two listings it created as my radio stations, and now the automatic startup doesn't happen. However, when accessing the site through a bookmark (Firefox), Pandora creates a browser sidebar. I cannot make it a full page. But when I click on the link in the first post of this thread, a full window is created. Strange goings-on.

Oh - good job assigning blame to iTunes (even as a "guess") when:
a) there is not even any evidence that Pandora does know about what songs you have on your hard disk

b) there is no evidence whatsoever that iTunes communicates your songs to anyone outside of your local network (and even that is only if you have turned on iTunes sharing)

By the way, why do you "hate iTunes"? I see no reason to hate it even if you might prefer some other music player for esoteric reasons.

It is a guess, I admitted that. I guessed that based off the spyware like updates that happened to the ITMS in tunes as of recent. The fact that pandora connects directly to the ITMS makes me think it is scanning your itunes library. This did not happen to me, and I do not use itunes. the ITMS looks through your library and suggests things you might want to download. It is just like that little tag on your keychain you get from grocery stores. The ones that offer you a small discount every time you scan it at check out. That tag is a number representing you, which also keeps track of everything you buy in a data base some where. Then when you get coupons from checking out they print things from your data base or things similiar to your data base you might like to give an incentive to get you to buy it. So when a new product comes out, the company that makes that product can spend some $$$$ and ask the grocery store to print off coupons for everyone who buys similiar products. The database keeps track of all that stuff. They also sell off their database info as a demographic to people who market their products at the grocery store. It is not unheard of and is pretty widely used in technology these days.

The guy claims he never entered anything in and it just started playing music. I play pandora from several computers at home and work it has never done that for me. So, either he did enter in some artists or songs and that is all stored in web cache or cookies, or it did infact retreive info off his computer some how.

As for hating itunes, sorry I was ranting. I don't hate it, I just dislike it for my own personal reasons. I prefer more flexible media players that give me more options, also I am not really happy with this new QT/Itunes combo installer which forces you to install itunes with QT 7. I tried watching some movie trailers on my laptop the other day and I was going to upgrade to QT 7 so I could watch some of the exclusives on apple's website. I searched long and hard for a QT 7 basic installer that did not include itunes, and could not find one. So, I ended up installing the QT alternative. So, I was being a bit harsh maybe because of that recent experience. it is by no means a total crap program, it is just not for me. My opinion is biased though so...you know...:D

PS - don't hate me cuz I am biased!

What you are referring to was a much overblown reaction to a misstep by Apple - and they corrected it within a day or two. It was never intended as spyware - Apple just assumed that it was obvious what the mini-store was doing so they didn't think it was necessary to mention it, nor did they think it was a big deal that the mini-store was "on" by default. I agree that they were wrong to make these assumptions, but it was never "spyware".

The ITMS and your iTunes library are quite different things.

It is best not to derive conclusions (or even make guesses) from one person's vaguely reported experiences.

It sounds like you were doing this on a Windows machine. I just checked and the downloadable installer on http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/mac.html just installs QuickTime. The downloadable installer on http://www.apple.com/itunes/download/ just installs iTunes.
But I do recall something about the Windows installer being a combined QuickTime & iTunes one. So are you using a Mac or not?

You're absolutely right, so if you have the patience, I'd like to make the reasons for my concern more apparent. I hope it isn't overkill.

I had downgraded to iTunes 6 -- I repartitioned my drive last month and used the opportunity -- because of the newest iTunes "feature" mentioned by tlarkin and you, above. The iTunes mini-store is absent from 6. (After loading the system from the DVD, I ignored Software Update's iTunes upgrade.)

I have never found iTunes cookies, probably because I have never purchased any songs from the store. (I also have the freebie search application EasyFind, with its invisible-file search turned on by default. I periodically use it to search for cookies, not necessarily invisible. But I doubt iTunes would plant invisible cookies, and I doubt invisible cookies would work, anyway.)

I keep my machine free of cookies automatically with AppleScripts. I use scripts to restart and shut down the machine, and other AppleScripts to quit Firefox and Safari. I've used such scripts since the days of System 7 or 8, not the built-in restart and quit commands, because in addition to quitting an application or restarting and shutting down the machine, each script automatically trashes and deletes the browsers' caches and cookies, histories and lists of downloads, as well as the cookies that are planted by Acrobat. These same scripts also trash and delete any "recent" files created by Stuffit, along with BBEdit Lite's clipboards. Each time my machine and the browsers start, all this detritus is gone. This is why I can be certain there were no cookies in my machine.

As well, cookies were not turned on when I visited Pandora because the site was an unknown. I do not turn cookies on unless I am posting a message or I am on other sites that require them, such as banks. I prefer Firefox because I use the extension PrefButtons that allows me to turn cookies on and off immediately from a toolbar at the top of the screen.

This is why I was so surprised when Pandora presented its offerings of such obscure songs of interest to so few people, and while running the iTunes application that has most of the songs in its library that Pandora played and all the long-gone bands that it suggested I try.

You're forgetting about Flash cookies. These are not stored with Safari's cookies or cache, but somewhere else entirely. Use this site to display and delete any Flash cookies you have on your computer: http://www.macromedia.com/support/do...manager07.html There should be one there for pandora.com. Delete that one and go back to Pandora and see if it really starts playing music without any kind of input.

Alternatively, you can see where these cookies are and delete them in the Finder: Navigate to user/Library/Preferences/Macromedia/Flash Player

I have 2 folders in there, one saying "#SharedObjects" and the other "macromedia.com". Both contain a list of folders named after sites that use Flash, such as pandora.com and flickr.com, and inside these folders are Flash cookies/prefs. Obviously, Pandora is still using the Flash cookie it put there the first time you went to the site.

Delete that folder using Finder (or use the website link above to delete it), and go to Pandora again. It will be just like the first time you went there, and it should ask you to enter a song or artist you like. From then on, it will keep that information (stored in that Flash cookie) and start playing music you like everytime you go to Pandora again afterwards.

My guess is that you went to Pandora a long time ago and entered the artist you like, then recently went there again, and since you still had that cookie, it remembered what music you like, and it automatically started playing.

Hope that clears things up.:)

It is also absent from iTunes 6.04 (the latest version and the version I am running) if you click on the "hide" button or set it to hide in iTunes preferences.

FireWired, thank you for that! The Flash files mean more if-then-trash-it additions to the AppleScripts. I wonder if they'll load now without a dump truck. I'll have to look for the Flash cookies in my System 9 partition, too, and if there are any add the new if-thens to those scripts. I hope Shockwave doesn't use separate cookies. More searching.

That would explain it, but I'll swear on a stack that I'd never been to Pandora before, only since I discovered this thread. And I've wiped the drive and reloaded Tiger from the DVD a bunch of times since Panther, the last a month ago. Maybe there's some kind of link from it to other sites, such as redhotjazz.com, though that seems way left-field. Oh well.

hayne, I had set the iTunes store on hide and set Little Snitch to block the app, as it still does, but I feel more secure with the older version, as long as it will run with the system updates yet to come, thereby keeping all them paranoids at bay. :D

I am willing to bet your library is being tracked by the ITMS, simply for demographic purposes, and that is how it suggests music to you. Lots and lots of things are tracked that way these days, even when companies say they don't. Software updaters scan your HD all the time to get your configuration and versions so it can update needed software. It is also generating a report on the other end as well. Things like error logs and such that are meant to help the developers fix issues, but at the same time they are still tracking your information. On an enterprise level I don't mind at all really, on a personal level I don't really like any type of software doing that. It is a personal opinion.

Yes, I am aware of this.


I was guessing off of information given. He/she was asking for help and I clearly stated it was a guess, but I would need more info. It is part of the troubleshooting process, it is a process of elimination. Presented with more information one could better assume, or eliminate as a possibility. I clearly stated it was a guess, and that is how it should be taken, as a guess.


Of course it was a windows machine. QT and itunes already come natively in the OS and every mac users uses both. My new HP buisness class laptop is much faster than my ibook so I use it as my main mobile machine. Plus it is a 12" and I run windows/Linux on it (dual boot). Since both already come natively on Mac OS X, there is no reason to bundle the install, the mac users are already using it. However, all the windows users out there that aren't running either application natively are now forced to run both if they want to choose to run one. Which is why I installed the QT alternative instead, and it works great and takes up less resources. This is the same sort of thing MS and other large software companies do to users. I am totally aware of the seperate installer for the mac side.

How many users on this forum use a different media player that iTunes? Does anyone on this entire forum use a different audio player? I am pretty sure that is why the windows version is bundled, and I did not like that.

It isn't clear what you are talking about, but if you are referring to the iTunes MiniStore, then yes - that is what I meant about it being obvious. And here's what Apple says (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303066) about the MiniStore:
But in most cases you don't need to take their word for it - you can monitor exactly what is being transmitted to the company with something like Ethereal. And usage of Ethereal confirms that nothing is being sent to Apple when you make normal (MiniStore hidden) usage of iTunes.

Forced to install both perhaps, not forced to run both.
I personally don't care about Windows so I wouldn't really care if Apple forced you to buy an Apple-branded mouse to use QuickTime and/or iTunes on Windows or whatever. But there might have been good technical reasons for bundling these two installers on Windows - most users will want both and having them bundled makes it easier for that majority of users - e.g. maybe there are technical problems if iTunes is installed before QuickTime, etc. (Note that the QuickTime install supplies some system libraries, not just the QuickTime Player application.) I recall some problems earlier with the Windows iTunes install.

See this other thread: http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=49735

hmm interesting thread...

I am checking it out now, thx

what kinda music does it play??

Pandora determines what kind of music you like and plays that genre after you type in a song or artist name of your liking.

(Sorry about bumping this thread, just wanted to answer seapru's question.)

Use PandoraJam to stream your music.
 

It's not illegal! You may use PandoraJam, which is a really cool application.

http://www.bitcartel.com/pandorajam/

Yes, I'm aware the thread is more than 3 years old but I couldn't help myself. All threads need closures so they can RIP:)

bleh...only works in america