I made no statements. Staying on topic for this thread, I posted one of my favorite quotes from a man I admire, who helped found this country that I love. I moved here from Cuba, so I know what it's like to live in a "safe" society without guns. Safe only if you don't upset the government.

I posted clear, unbiased numbers in response to your later question because I didn't want to turn it into a political discussion. You are free to take those numbers and make of them what you will. If you want to believe that 2.5 million defensive gun uses are not enough to outweigh 4,000 accidental or malicious uses, then that's your choice. I won't bother to argue that with you.

Since I have saved a person's life through the use of my own handgun, I may have a different perspective than you.

Carrying a defensive weapon is prompted by fear, of course. It's not an ever-present fear, just an awareness that criminals do exist. A fear that exists in most European countries too, except maybe Switzerland where everyone owns automatic weapons. The stories of rampant crime from the UK make me want to never visit there again (and it may affect the rest of the EU, but their news happens to be in a language I can read).

Benjamin Franklin:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Look folks, I started this thread so we could look at quotes. I have no opinion on guns, I'm not even reading your posts. Could you please not hijack my thread!

fair points,

i maybe reacted too a provacative statement, which was my initial post on the subject, i was asking what the point of saying something like that here was. i maybe shouldn't express objections to the usage of statements i find offensive, and that are political 'hot potatoes' in a forum that isnt supposed to allow them.

maybe i have lost a family member to someone shooting a legally owned firearm, in an incident which led to their banning in this country.

here's one...

adolf hitler, as history has often speculated, was a very bad man.
also a great speaker, with some highly philosophical background.
what if i were to quote somthing he had said here?

would that be accepted?

would excusing the fact that i carry 'some' admiration for the man, excuse it further?

i think not, in my last post, i tried to some up the reasons for differnce of opinion. and maybe leave it at that, but i still feel perfectly just having objected to such a quote in the first place, i'll just not say why next time.

"Arguments are to be avoided; they are always vulgar and often convincing."

--oscar wilde

You know, one of my favorite quotes, and no it isn't in reference to anyone or anything recently transpired, is:

"Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
-- Anonymous

So, next time anyone wants to pick a fight with me, you'd better watch out!

Why not? I mean, if you honestly like the quote, then posting it in a "your favorite quote" thread would certainly be appropriate. I disagree with many people who have said at least a few memorable things. Even despots, tyrants, and murderers can have moments of brilliance.

Most interesting Hitler quote:
It is better to make a mistake than to do nothing.
--Adolf Hitler

A lot can be made of this, and it surely opens the door to a lot of discussion.

It is interesting to note that Hitler's Germany had very strict gun control, and one of their most embarassing moments was caused by a handful of well-armed citizens of the Warsaw ghetto. When the Nazis enacted their own laws in 1938, they added restrictions aimed at Jews, such as not allowing Jews to work in any business involving guns. They also prohibited those under eighteen from buying guns, added yet another permit for handguns, and banned silencers and small hollow-point ammunition. Of course, Nazi officials were exempted from all gun permits. Later that year, after "Kristallnacht," Hitler forbade Jews to possess pretty much any weapons.

As if in definition of his own reign:

There is nothing great in the world that does not owe it's origin to the creative ability of an individual man.
--Adolf Hitler

Gandhi walked barefoot everywhere, to the point that his feet became quite thick and hard. He also was quite a spiritual person. Even when he wasn't on a hunger strike, he did not eat much and became quite thin and frail. Furthermore, due to his diet, he ended up with very bad breath. Thus, he was known as a "Super-calloused, fragile mystic plagued with halitosis"

-Anonymous (I couldn't find the orig. author)

"640K ought to be enough for anyone." - Bill Gates

:D

That must be one of the "satirical" quotes, since there's no evidence Bill Gates actually said that...

We'd have an easier time proving this quote about the iPod:

"The screens are much too small to watch video, anyway. So we think these products are wrong. We think that video may be the wrong direction to go."
- Steve Jobs

;)

Ok, then my new favorite quote comes from no evidence since it's just as ironic:

"We at Microsoft disagreed. We knew that even 16-bit computers, which had 640K of available address space, would be adequate for only four or five years."
[Edit: I should point out that they are quoting Bill Gates, great technological wizard that he is.]

A 16-bit computer can address 65536 bytes, or 64K. To get up to 640K required a complicated scheme for swapping banks of memory.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I like it:

While Steve Job's is explaining the highlights of the Lisa:

"You just don't get it, do you? None of that matters!"

Bill Gates, from Pirates of Silicon Valley

Ms. Beehive.

I thank you in advance for refraining from future clumsy attempts to hijack this thread. You must be from the other side of the pond, where people are permitted to say more and more, about less and less.

Shaaaadup, yerself !!


"Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread." -- Thomas Jefferson

Rick

And cut the insults too. It was a legitimate argument, both misbehave and CAlverez's points shouldn't be taken lightly, they should just be taken somewhere else.

And now a, maybe fitting, quote:

"Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones."
--Benjamin Franklin.

That one seems to be much older than B.Franklin - see: http://www.bartleby.com/81/7232.html

"At first I assumed the moderators were asleep or had quit en masse. Now I see that this is a big experiment to see if people can discuss something sensitive without lobbing hand grenades. Thanks for letting it continue."
-- Me, 2006, on MacOSXhints.com

hat's off to you carlos, that is a very fine response, and there isnt too much i can say to that, except... small point! (sorry! as it is a well rounded and quickly sourced comparison!)
but america isnt nazi germany, and mr. hitler was actually 'up to somthing' with the jews.

other than that, i step down. i feel we've both said enough on the subject.

i didnt intend to hijack the thread, and feel rotten about that, if thats what you are all thinking. just some light ignorance that irked me, that i feel woud have been ignored otherwise.

"A thinker sees his own actions as experiments and questions--as attempts to find out something. Success and failure are for him answers above all."

--nietzche

.

"Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish."
--Steve Jobs

.

Take the off-topic discussions elsewhere.

.
100% agree with Craig, and besides some statements posted above are just not correct.

That's not correct. In Switzerland, not "everyone" owns automatic weapons. The rate of households with firearms is actually comparable to that of Canada (27.2%). There is strict screening of army officers and ammunition is stored in sealed boxes and inspected regularly. Despite these controls, Switzerland has rates of gun suicide "second only" to the US among the countries surveyed and a gun murder rate comparable to Canada's. Opponents of gun control often use Switzerland as evidence that access to guns is not linked to crime or violence. Like you, they argue that since virtually all adult males are members of the army and have military weapons, there is nearly universal access to deadly weapons yet few gun-related problems. This is simply not true. The brother of a dear friend of mine, 19 years old, had a fight with his girlfriend, went to his room, put the end of his automatic rifle in his mouth and shot himself dead. So young and such a waste... :(

.

Take the off-topic discussions elsewhere.

Craig R. Arko

:D

I can't resist:

"Is Our Children Learning?" - G.W.B

:D