Macs are getting more popular
 

The other day, I heard a commercial for some product, I can't remember what it was. But in the commercial it said "...ready to hook up to your PC or Mac...".

This wasn't an Apple product, and it kind of sounded odd to me, since most other commercials just say "your PC".

Also, my friend who uses Windows has been having so many problems with her computer now...granted she isn't on top of the whole anti-spyware, anti-virus thing (but hey, isn't that most PC users?)...and she came to me for help. Well this week I have been absolutely swamped with work (two tests, two assignments, two quizzes, and a CAD project I have spent a combined 45 hours on in the last two weeks which is still not yet complete) so i told her i couldn't help, and to buy a Mac...she then told me I was the 8th person that told her that in the last two days.

Small victories, but victories nonetheless ;)

There was this article too.

My boss is looking for a computer i said get a mac and he said "yeah that's what i hear a bunch of other people told me that" i told him you may pay more now but with a pc you'll pay ALOT more in the long run.

Another story i was talkin to an ex's dad about how he should get a mac but he said do they have microsoft word,powerpoint etc? I was like uh...yeah plus you wont have to worry about your computer like you do with a pc (viruses,spyware etc) then this other guy jumped in and said "that's because no one uses them" I guess in the grande scheme he's right there's alot of pc users,but just about every graphics,video,most high end computer animation. So i had to put him in his place with the above reasons and after that he no longer took part in the conversation. :)

There's a definite trend. Amongst my geek colleagues there is definitely a high awareness level, if not just a mass exodus toward non-Windows, with Mac at the top. All of the development-oriented companies I work with have a very high proportion of Mac users. Tech people are recommending Macs more and more, even the ones that don't use them.

Singly the biggest draw for us geeks is Unix. Partly for its known stability/security, partly for the power of the tools it offers.

Since I wear two hats, geek and business consultant, I need both a computer with strong tools some days, and an efficient/stable GUI for business work on other days. That's why I made the switch.

I'm still a strong proponent of Windows servers such as Exchange and Terminal Server; there's nothing else like them. But servers are cared for very closely so they are stable and clean. Workstations in a corporate environment are also cared for closely, but it requires more effort than caring for Macs. Not a huge amount more, but more nonetheless. For the home user, Windows these days is just going to have a problem eventually, period. A couple years ago I would have said that a home user could secure his machine pretty well, but now I think it's nearly impossible.

If I'm thinking of the same commercial, it was for a label maker. They used a Mac in the commercial, too.

there is some news stories knocking around on the internet about 1 million people switching to mac this year!

8 of them are mine! :D

and they are all VERY pleased to see that back of windoze.

Ah, yes...i knew it was something like that...good call.

just wait till the x86 versions of os x come out. I think we will see a large shift in mac os x users.

It was for the LabelWriter 400 Turbo, which works great on my Mac Mini.

When I first started to drive, there was this company called Honda that made a very nice motorcycle and decided to get into the car manufacturing business. Their first looked like a gocart. Their second, the Civic, looked a little better. Not too many people bought them because the parts were too expensive. But then the reputation for reliability started to take hold. Now, every other car you see on the road is a Japanese automaker. And if you see a car on the side of the road needing a tow, it's usually an American-made vehicle. At least that seems to be how it is here in SoCal.

People gravitate slowly. But they DO gravitate eventually.

http://www.betanews.com/article/Repo...005/1131390633



:D

I wonder how many switchers are actually "adders," meaning they added a Mac to their lineup and didn't actually switch altogether.

Probably many of them because they are "not sure" or have that one illusive application that has not been ported yet. However, the Mac Mini was designed to actually switch out the CPU box, so there may be more than we imagine. Hard to tell.

Two of my friends will be switching next new purchase (around the xmas time) and two already have. :D

I guess after years of complaining about windows and never hearing me complain about anything ever, and just seeing how cool expose, and dashboard and minimizing genie effect finally wore on them.

However I do have one Mac -> PC sellout too. But he made his switch about 8 years ago, just so he could get fallout 2...

I'm sure "Adders" have been taken into consideration along with "Upgraders" since there would be no distinction between the two, except that the later would have a posting on Ebay for yet another Adder, Upgrader or Switcher.

Yeah, that gaming question still looms large for many of us. I, for example, want to design games for a living. Couldn't be happier that Apple is switching to x86, might make VirtualPC worth something (you know, a lot easier when you're not emulating processor architecture, maybe they can implement DX9?).

My ultimate hope is that a mass shift of users to Mac will make more developers push for Mac releases. Heck, I like the idea of limited hardware (so long as it's the best) why should I have to code for every joeSoundCard and bobGraphicsGPU? It seems developing for Apple might be easier. If OSX would just correctly implement all of OpenGL 2.0...

And it seems like games would be such a natural for Mac users. Most of the new users are college students from what I've heard. And what college student doesn't like video games?

Or middle-aged bald guys like myself... sigh.

I miss playing Call of Duty 2 and Battlefield 2, but my stupid PukeCee laptop just stopped working. It was just not a good investment getting another box just to play war.

quite a few, for me being in the IT field a computer is a computer, and how you use it is how you justify how useful it is. I use both, am certified in both sides mac/pc and like both.

If you are curious there was a large discussion about switching a while ago with a poll and everything, you can see how many people are true switchers, and how many of them are just dual users now.

Scheb-- If you are a committed geek, go for a console. The new Xbox 360 is a fraction the price of a PC that can provide the same graphic power, and you never have to read system requirements again wondering if you are far enough above them for decent real world performance. Yeah, we all miss mouse aiming, but you'd get better.

I have to be counted as an "adder"--I keep an XP box at my desk, with the monitor usually covered by a tapestry and a plant on top of it--for one reason only: Microsoft.

Office documents? If they are complex as mine usually are, they have to be given a last minute look on XP to confirm all formatting and charts came through as intended.

Web pages? Gotta check them in IE to make sure all the DOM and other IE hacks worked out, to get around that POS browser's non-compliance.

Illustrator, Photoshop, Corel, InDesign, Audacity, seemingly any other damn application I want to use NOT produced by Microsoft? Never. A. Problem. Pass the document along straight from the Mac.

Seeing a pattern? Maybe "adder" isn't so much the best term to use as "hostage."

I have two kids, and there is NO WAY I could tell them no more games. They love the mac but they love to play more. So I keep a PC I bought refurbished but it's not part of our home network or anything, to avoid any problems, and because they use it with the understanding that if something goes wrong I will just plonk a CD and reinstall the whole thing, and forget their saved games.

I just can't be bothered to fix it. Keep AVAST running on it, and the Windows firewall. So far they have been good or lucky I don't know. They do all their work on the macs though (but I am getting an idea for another thread here).

Once the x86 macs come in full effect it may be way easier for devs to port their games into mac os x. Plus, there may be a way to install windows on a x86 based mac and you could dual boot. Which would be awesome for me, since I like to work in both enviroments, and I myself, do love to play PC based video games.

As for consoles, they are cool, but fist person shooters are alwasy superior on a PC, and some third person action games are superior on a console. Thats just my opinion though.

Yeah, I considered the Xbox route. However, I was getting creamed even with mouse aiming! Sometimes it was real fun if we had a good team balance. I got pretty good at being a commander in Battlefield 2 since many did not know how to use it. Sigh...

However, I'm holding my horses hoping the INTELs will allow my cake and eat it too!

Civilizatrion IV is out... but not for mac yet T_T

I have been waiting for years.

I hear ya’! It’s a long time since I kicked my PC – well, out the window.
But I do feel hostage to Microsoft, even though Office (with the possible exceptions of Entourage and Excel) are some of the most inelegant applications I know. :(

There are times that I feel like a junkie – the GUIs are a real downer.

How I wish someone would make a complete suite of applications that would be a viable competitor to MS Office!

With best regards,
ArcticStones

I have just watched the England Vs Argentina football match (we won 3-2).... only to see "Football Manager 2006 for PC or MAC" splashed across a 40ft long sign along the touch line!

They mentioned the Mac?...

"Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaal!"

Screen shot, please!? I’d love to see that. :cool:

I just convinced a co-author and photographer to go for a Mac.
Suggested he go for a MacMini now, and check out Apple’s promising application Aperture as soon as it’s released.

Then next year, when the Intel-embracing Macs (as I prefer to call them) are introduced, he can spend some real bucks (...well, Norwegian crowns, actually).

Three or four others are listening more and more, every time I mention a Mac as the great cure to their alarmingly frequent Windows problems.

I confess – I’m guilty of proselytising. :D And I’m being heard.


Faithfully yours,
ArcticStones

You told a photographer to get a Mac mini...and then check out Aperture? If he's going to be using Aperture and raw files you should suggest nothing less than the Aperture recommended configuration. Not the minimum, the recommended. If you don't want to have a switcher full of regrets on your hands.

I suppose my narrative was a bit incomplete.

No, he’s still dealing with jpg and tiff files. And the MacMini is going to be a cheap intermediary solution, to be inherited by his kids. He’s not in a hurry. Next year he’ll buy a long-term machine.

– ArcticStones

Yea, it is a pity that the smart guys at Apple weren't able to integrate X11 with Aqua a little better. I think both the Linux camp and the Apple camp were really hoping that Mac OS X would be the desktop environment for Unix, for the average consumer. The Apple distrbiution (which would only run on apple hardware of course) would have knocked the likes of RedHat and SuSE out of the water. Instead of which, we still have Mac as a third operating system :(

(okay, we know it is the best, but 90% of the public would place it third in popularity after Windows and Linux)

I think it is.
What makes you think otherwise?

Umm, when you say "Apple distribution", you seem to be thinking of OS X as another version of Linux. It isn't.

Apple is the desktop environment for UNIX for the average consumer

Apple distribution includes OS X, OS X Server and Darwin (which runs on both PPC & X86 platforms)

That may be public opinion, but the reality is that Apple is the largest distributer of UNIX, worldwide. That 90% is the MS followers that still need an excuse for choosing the more common, yet inferior OS.

I've been a Mac user forever. So I miss out on all the games... I hope they bring Half-Life 2 to the IntelliMacs!

IntelliMac game machines? Sounds too much like...Intellivision!!

Oh please...the horror!

I worked at a college bookstore that sold Macs recently, and one of the things that came up repeatedly is that they don't have games. I don't know how they're going to fix that, but I hope they do. The biggest problem right now is that many games are being developed on the DirectX Standard (including Half Life 2), while Mac's run on OpenGL, and even then, it can be shaky at times. There are other reasons, but the shear man hours needed to switch between the two...

The real question is, do we really want DirectX on our machines? I just hope OpenGL takes over completely.

I'm sure that Jobs is not totally unaware of the vast chasm that is the gaming industry. He has been focused on the needs of folks like ILM and Pixar, but knows that the real money and momentum is in the gaming industry. Movies are out, games are in for the teen money. That may be one of the many reasons for the move to Intel processors.

The average kid could muster up $1,000 for a good gaming box such as Alienware-- More if possible. If they could get the same processing power in a Macintosh, they would buy them. However, the game release would have to be a mandatory Mac capable.

Netflix commercial. :D

I just happened to be looking at iBooks at Amazon. There are about 44 reviews between the 12" and the 14" iBook and 22 of them are by switchers or at least by people who speak of their previous PC. [46 were actually there, but two reviews were on both iBook's review lists; I did not read carefully enough to say that all the other 44 are unique.] The other 22 either did not mention their previous computer or admitted to being a long-time Mac user. Although not statistically meaningful, it is pretty interesting. Nearly all of the reviews are glowing.

Apple – "top of mind"
 

Wonderful!
I think this is yet another sign that Apple is reaping evermore well-deserved benefits for its consistent ability to innovate. It really is fascinating that a computer/software developer with such a "marginal" market share is, in fact, one of the world’s strongest brand names. And that means "top of mind".

It is also a sign that Microsoft is showing continuing signs of intellectual exhaustion...

:)

At Amazon, at least, it's more than just good reviews. As is so often the case at Amazon, the top sellers in "Computers" are iBooks and iMacs. You don't see a PC until the Sony Vaio notebook at #5.

I just saw this link at the DaringFireball linked list and thought I'd post it back here. It ends with "...your workplace might do what mine has just done and switch to Mac operations."

Just moved to mac recently and I love it.

aantn, welcome to mac!

I have just returned to my job as an interior designer after a year off designing magazines and the head accountant (aged 65) who was MR. Windows XP before I left took great pleasure in telling me he had his 20" imac on order!!! What ever next I thought... then he pulled his ipod mini of his pocket!!

I almost fell over! :D

The problem is that so many windows user are completely unaware. They just dont even realize that there is another alternative. Apple has to put out ads that show OS X. People dont realize how much better the GUI is, and how much more stable it is. I showed a friend expose and minimized a windows in slow motion (by the way ctrl shift minimizes even slower than shift) and his eyes popped out of his head.

If each mac user could convince 1 windows user to swtich...

.
I think Apple should make a convincing "soft Mac" demo for Windows, so the Windows hostages can get a glimpse of freedom (forgive the hyperbole) and try out the GUI.

Beauty seduces; elegance lures; the power of practicality invites full attention; the virus-free environment should clinch the deal!

– ArcticStones

Then Mac market share would double from 4% to 8%, and Windows would be "down" to 92% instead of 96%. Hm. We'll need to do many times better than convincing one user each.

Welcome aantn
 

Welcome aantn, i hope you would enjoy your new Mac and the community.

No always true. Linux distros offer way more options that windows, and are usually a few years ahead. For example all the new features in vista, were already available in linux for about the last two years. Linux is probably the most ahead and on top of the times OS out there, but its not the most commonly used. Linux pretty much runs the internet, but when it comes to end users its not used very much. Why is this? If Linux is so much more advanced than pretty much all the other OSes out there, then why is it not used. I can see why mac os x is not used because of the PPC enviroment and hardware costs are higher. Linux will run on x86 and its free or requires minimal site liscences for support, and the cost is way lower than microsoft. So, linux is cheaper and more powerful but used way less, why is that?

It is because microsoft makes their OSes easy to use. Sure you can complain about migrating an exchange server, or upgrading from win2k advance server to win2k3 server. Win2k3 sever has lots of new terminal services features allowing more robust remote log in and remote management. Linux has offered that for years now (as well as unix). But then again you are the only one doing this stuff if you work in IT. If you are an end user you don't care how hard it is to migrate servers, or do any kind of server side work. you just want it to work. Windows is freaking easy to use, reguardless of how crappy you think it is, it is the easiest OS to use out there. Mac OS X is extremely easy imo as well, but I would say the masses find windows easier to use.

I use both mac os x and windows (as well as linux) and the reason why windows is so popular is because its just easy to use. In the end its all about the user. The end user makes you money, they keep your company generating revenue. The IT/Admins just make sure the end user can be productive on their systems. In my current job we run all three enviroments and the macintosh systems only hold around a 5% population out of the 10,000 computers we have for end users. It has been pretty consistant with about 5 ~ 7% total popluation, with the rest being PCs running windows. We also run novell, which IMO is not needed because Wink2k3 server can do pretty much everything novell can. I will say that iprint from novell is pretty sweet, and I like how it works. Again novell is pretty easy to use, and its gui set up is pretty simple in windows. I learned how to set full contexts, and trees, and how NDS works, and how to map drives through commands, etc in about 2 days with no prior novell training. It was that easy.

So, honestly, if apple can fill the gap between a great OS and easy to use interface (which they have for the most part imo) the the flexibility of hardware (like MS) then I see it being a major challenge. If they decide to keep all their hardware propritary(sp?) I foresee that limiting them. This is just my view from an IT workers perspective. When we do all of our major purchasing for the year and base our budgets of previous ones we look at what works and is most cost effective. The PCs work and they are cheaper, and we can get more of them so everyone can have a PC. The macs are for specific labs (like video editing, computer animation, etc) and are only purchased for certain specialized things. However, we have PCs that run those things too. I would like to see apple just release an OS that would run on just about any x86 configuration, so I could freaking dual boot windows and mac os x on any system I build. That is what I want.

I hardly think so. If anything, what you are talking about a familiarity effect.

Just as an aside - if you enable "Check Spelling as You Type" in Safari's Edit/Spelling menu, then you won't need to use that "sp?" ever again when posting to forums.

I think what you mean is that you can get along with cheaper machines (very low end models - a market that Apple doesn't address) either because your workers aren't worth spending the money on and/or because your support costs come out of a different budget than your capital expenditures.

Never seen that before... :D

That's hilarious, given the number of switchers on this site alone, who are often afraid to try something on their Mac for fear of 'breaking' it. Most of the masses I've seen are even afraid to install software on their PCs, which explains the number of noobie questions about "uninstaller" software for the Mac. :D

Nope I am saying that from an IT perspective hayne. I have supported both and been an independant contractor at times (and I still am for macs on the side) for support for both. Most of my clients have always been majority windows users, so IME, the masses seem to like windows better. Microsoft holds a larger share in the market blah blah blah. I am not debating over whether macs are good or bad machines, I am saying apple should change how they do business to reach more users.

It is my guess that with the new x86 macs coming out and with OS X's superior security and limited virus vulnerability, it could make microsoft make a run for its money. I think that if apple did just become an OS/software company they could do better for themselves and put in a broader hardware support. So manufacturers can preload OS X with their systems and you could go out and build your own system and have a choice to run mac os x, or win xp, or dual boot them both.

I think that if apple wants to be a big contender like MS, they would need to do business more like microsoft. This is something most mac users do not want to see, but I do. I want to be able to build my own system with my own hardware (intel or AMD) and be able to load OS X on it. Apple may never do this, but IMO, it would get them more business. It would open the door for all the PC users that get fed up with windows and don't want to change out their hardware. Or to get even crazier, what if dell, HP, and sony started making PCs with mac os x on it?

Perhaps I am the only person on this forum who thinks this, because I am not soley an elitist either way versus microsoft over mac os x. I do however wish it was more of an even market and everyone had their fair market share. A little competition always makes it better for the consumer, and makes it better for the IT workers also in some ways.

Also, apple just tackled the low end market with the mac mini, so you cannot tell me they aren't looking for the simple cheaper (lower end) users. I mean if you have a group of users in your company that mainly use office, email and internet, why would you go buy a mac when you can get a PC at half the cost? Looking at it from a business perspective is what its about, its all business. I have worked on the sales side of support, supporting sales reps and their customer's with hardware/software support in the past. when someone came to me for a business solution they almost always wanted the most cost effective, and don't try to counter-argue with the mac never breaks down line. i worked for an AASP for years and had broken macs on my work bench every day. They break down all the time.

Bottom line, is I want apple to become bigger and have a larger market share, it would make me more valuable of an employee have been supporting both sides for years, and it would make the market more competitive.

Just my opinion on stuff though, please don't anyone take any of this personally.

Higher management spending tons in the wrong place just cause they don't know their head from their feet in IT ? That's never happened in any place I work ! :D
Only in every place I don't work anymore ;)

And by the way, I completely agree with tlarkin on the expansion Apple should do towards opening themselves to a broader range of hardware so you could build your machine and have OS X work on x86 architecture in general. But as nice start would be if they joined in a company such as Dell or HP, etc so those companies would offer a version of OS X as an alternative to windows when the customer's buying...Abit in the same way some stores and companies have started to offer Linux as a second OS choice.

And to still add to the point... The Mini is a great idea as well. I've convinced a few people to switch just cause of that one with the price and size !

.
This is a most inspiring thread! From observations, news nuggets and personal experiences in the posts here, it certainly appears that Macs are making significant headway.

Now that’s encouraging! :)
I would love to see some reliable figures (haven’t yet).

With best regards,
ArcticStones

To an accuracy of 3 decimals, the market of people who want to build their own machines is 0.000 % of the total.
And the amount of available profit if Apple owned 100% of that market is (in millions of dollars): 0.000

I am not sure where you have that info, but the contract work I do on the side is for an onsite company based in a retail store, and they get a lot of custom build PC work orders in. Infact walk into a computer store lots of them have a build it yourself section. It has to be larger than that, and if its not it will be in the future. A good friend of mine works in a mutli-millin dollar design firm with approx 170ish users with around a 50/50 mac pc enviroment. All of their PCs are custom built, all of them. They are built for specific usage, like video editing, photo work, whatever it may be. Lots of companies are building PCs customly for their specialized departments.

Not to mention if you were able to load OS X on any PC, think of how many people would be tempted to switch.

Apple lost money in the early 90s to their clones because other companies were able to produce macintosh hardware cheaper than apple was, and they were losing business. IMHO, mac clones were a great idea it was just implemented wrong, and they lost money over it. I even have a mac clone sitting around somewhere in my parents basement. I'll have to go back there to get it one of these days.

Actually, I think it's going to be the other way around. If you could load MS Windows on any (future) Apple machine, think of how many people would be tempted to switch (to Apple hardware, and probably eventually also to OS X).

But remember, Apple is a company and hence it's not about the numbers, it's about the amount of profit. Currently most of Apple's profit still comes from sales of Macintosh hardware. It is likely to remain that way for a while. Apple is doing just fine with its current business model.

yeah you are right about their hardware profits, but apple has generated more revenue in the ipod, online music store business last few years. They are making their money in other places. I think once they test the waters with the intel based macs they will be more ready to jump into a new business model.

Of course you could be right and people could be wanting to switch to apple hardware to run their windows machines, but since its all intel based (intel mb, intel chipset, etc) they could always probably find a way to build it cheaper. Plus someone might want to use the via or nforce, or whatever chipset instead on their board. However, I will stop there and not get too ahead of myself since that would be bit ways off.

I will agree with you that it will open up a whole new market and we won't be able to tell whats going to happen until it happens. I am just hoping it goes the way I described earlier.

I mean do you totally disagree that being able to load OS X on any x86 PC would really honestly be that bad of a thing? Look at Lindows, it is being offered on several manufacturers machines now for being preisntalled. Its not anywhere as popular as mac os x or windows, but some peole are switching to the linux based enviroment of lindows. Its not making any huge impact or anything, but what if apple did that. Imagine someone calling dell to place an order and having the option of windows or mac os x?

That would drastically change the market IMHO, but I don't want to argue with anyone so I'll just stop here. I think I have expressed my opinion well enough.

Bad for whom?
I think it would be bad for Apple - as I've explained above, they make most of their money by selling hardware. And Apple's stated position is that they will do everything they can to prevent OS X from running on non-Apple hardware.

But that's like saying that 90% of Windows users prefer Windows. Until they are selling the OS separately, of course they won't be making much money selling the OS. Windows XP Pro sells for $350; you think OS X is worth that much? Even at half the price it's still more than they sell it for to Apple hardware users.

Yup that is because Apple is not quite in the OS selling business yet. XP Pro costs $300.00 I thought for full and $150.00 for the upgrade? I am wrong on that? I think you make a good point if someone was custom building a PC and saw OS X for 129.99 or winxp for 299.99 they may go with OS X. Good observation on that one CAlvarez, I didn't even think that mac os x was already cheaper.

However, MS makes a killing of a profit on site liscenses too, imagine if apple sold 10,000 lisceneses to a corporation to run on pre existing hardware, that was non apple?

Not even Apple really knows if they could make more money selling software than hardware. But I suspect that they would need to sell it at something like that XP Pro price if they are to compensate for the hardware sales they might lose.

Yeah true, but what about their other ways to make revenue? What about itunes music store and ipods, and what about emagic, and the other companies apple owns? They have plenty of potential to make more money in other places, just like microsoft makes money in their xbox.

I'm not understanding. You seem to be saying that it is okay for them to make less money than they could in the computer division (hardware + software) just because they can survive on their other revenues?
Apple wants to maximize their profit in all divisions. The only reason they might accept a lower profit in one division is if that enabled them to make a larger profit in another. But the profit centres you mention are independent of the Macintosh division - so there is no reason to "leave money on the table".

Maybe i didn't explain it that well, my bad. I was referring to how they are making more and more money in general, and that they could easily shift into a different business model. IMHO, people who have tunnel vision and are complete elitist of apple products are the ones who do not see it in the same sense I do. I see it as potential money they are not making because some people DO NOT want to buy apple hardware.

My best example is my PC at home, built it for approx 700 dollars and it can easily keep up with a G5 no problem.

I have
amd 3400+
2gig DDR 400 ram
72 gig raptor 10k rpm sata drive (super fast)
pioneer 4x dvdrw drive
asus kv8se mobo
9800 pro radeon (then switched to a 6800gt)

Now it was 700 dollars and change for me to build this, finding the right deals online. I sold my radeon 9800pro and got a vanilla 6800GT and used the firmware hack to make it 6800GT Ultra. Now, if I could run OS X on this thing I would with out a second thought. I searched for a few months to find the best deals online and i did. Just to be fair I will admit that was my cost after rebates, I think inital cost was just under 1,000 dollars, but I did get several hundred back in rebates. Everyday there are more power users like me out there that want to build their own system. It is a market apple never really explored. Just go look at a case mod website, or the hundreds and hundres of DIY home PC websites. People are building their own machines more and more these days, and its just going to become a bigger market.

I work for a school district and there are kindergardeners already learning to use laptops. The high schools have Full labs of dual 2.5G5s running Maya and 3DSMax, there are even computer repair and basic networking courses that run PCs with windows based servers. This next generation of kids are going to be very computer savy, and they will be the next consumer market. Kids are learning the ins and outs of computers from kindergarden now. Most of the power users will more than likely like to build their own systems themselves.

So, why they make more money in certain areas (ie ipods, itunes music store, and emagic) they can afford to spend some money to develope a new model. If you don't change with the times you might end up losing a lot of business. Sure I agree with you that it is totally risky Hayne, but everything is a risk, and if apple doesn't change they risk not growing as much as they could.

Who knows how it will work out, you could be right, perhaps they won't change and apple hardware will make them a much larger amount of money. I think that is unlikely, but I am no business major, I just have worked on the business and sales end of IT support and picked up a few things here and there of how it works. Or at least how I think it works.

Bigger maybe, but only in absolute terms - e.g. from X users to (X + 1000) users. In relative terms, I maintain my 0.000 % estimate.

Of course I might be wrong, but the usual evolution of hardware devices is towards closed boxes - "appliances" that "just work".
Most people don't want to build their own - for most people it isn't fun and not worth the money they might save since it takes more time and the results for most people (who are less skilled than you) are inferior to what you can buy.
Also note that for most people, faster but uglier or noisier is not better.

XBox a profit maker?
 

Tom, this is a fascinating discussion with many good points being made. I definitely think that Apple has a big surprise up their sleeve in terms of adjusting their business model. Within three years I think things are going to look very, very different.

But I don’t think what you’re saying about the XBox is true. In fact I seem to recall reading somewhere that Microsoft has yet to make money off the XBox. As far as I know, they’ve been willing to carry a significant loss – it’s all about positioning, before the real money starts to roll in. Or do I recall that wrong?

Best regards,
ArcticStones

Another interesting article about the reasons for Apples popularity:

"The Five Rules of Cool

How does Apple Computer manage to pass
itself off as different from all the rest? It all
starts with great products, a classic story, and
the right adversaries. CEOs, take note."

http://www.forrester.com/magazine/ar...3.apple.r2.pdf

Actually you are correct but I just read in a recent video game magazine that the xbox 360 took MS to the next level of manufacturing and they are now getting very effecient. In fact, one of the higher up sales reps was quoted as saying that the xbox is getting cheaper to make now every day, and in 2006 MS will make lots of profit off of it. You have to hand it to them coming into a billion dollar industry battling against nintendo and playstation after they destroyed sega, atari, snk, etc.

Microsoft made the decision to lose some money in the begining, but now they are going to reap the benefits. It was a risk, and they did it in a smart way. I own an xbox, gamecube, and PS2, and the xbox is probably my favorite. I do not have a 360 yet, but I think I'll get one at some point.

IMHO, apple could do the same to the PC world. I mean imagine a time where anyone could build any x86 system (intel or AMD) and then have a choice to load windows, linux, and now mac os x on it, that would be very cool, and it would turn people towards macintosh more.

As mentioned earlier since MS was pirated so much all over the world people got used to it, and it is now the most widely used OS in the world. While apple was so propritary and would only run on apple hardware, meaning it was way less being pirated. That in turn could have very well hurt apple in the long run. Look at China, and their booming upcoming economy. When they fully industrialize China, and they make everything digital, they will use windows. That is because its been over there being pirated for the last 15 years and everyone has a free copy (or a cheap copy) of it. So, when they can finally afford to go legit, they'll just keep their same set up and just buy a site liscnese or something.

Look at what is happening over in India right now, with the huge surge of work being facilitated there technology wise. Their economy is rising, and they have a huge population too. What is going to happen when it becomes common for everyone in their household to have at least one computer like it is here in the USA? If you go to asia and check out their tech markets, you don't find hardly any apple stuff, but you can find just about any PC based OS or program you want over there, and yes its pirated.

So really piracy actually helps in some ways, which is why microsoft hasn't gone over there with an iron fist yet, they know that when they catch up they are already customer's of microsoft, and they will eventually get their money.

I think that apple may fear some of this type of stuff, and they definately do not want their product to be pirated as much as the other one's out there, and I don't blame them. If I made a product that cost my company millions to develope I would want compensation for it. So, yes the next couple of years will be very interesting to see how apple changes their business model, and I am willing to bet all the elitist mac users will come around when apple makes the change. We will just have to sit and wait, because I have no idea what is going on, I am just guessing:D

I'm guessing that you are talking about people running OS X on non-Apple hardware. Well, call me elitist, but I'm with Oscar Wilde:
"I have the simplest of tastes. I am always satisfied with the best."

Well, Oscar Wilde said a lot of fitting things:

On quality:
"The good ended happily, and the bad unhappily. That is what fiction means. "

"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal."

"Of course America had often been discovered before Columbus, but it had always been hushed up."

"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."

fair enough, to each their own, however I still think when apple makes the change everyone will go with it.