Warranty and/or AppleCare
 

All right, after having long discussions with friends the opinions seem to be split on this matter: is AppleCare really worth it? I thought I should ask here since you all guys know the numbers much better that me.

By the way, reading the terms and conditions of my powermac warranty I see that the warranty is void if I install something myself. Is this right? does this mean that every time that I want to upgrade something I should bring it to the store to have it done there? I already had installed some dimms of RAM and two PCI cards when I read that.

Luckily I sitll haven't had any problems.

Thanks,

R.

I've never heard of anyone having a problem with warranty because they installed RAM or PCI cards. I think they're talking about things that require soldering, etc.

I agree with cwtnospam but if I had to take my Power Mac in for service I would definitely remove any extra cards or memory.

I did have a warranty problem with the hard drive in my Power Mac G5. Apple ended up sending me a new one. If Apple lets customers replace their own hard drives then they better not get too worked up about adding PCI cards or memory.

First ask yourself how long you will keep the machine. I never keep a notebook for longer than a year, so no point in getting Applecare. It will be sold before the warranty is up.

The longer you keep it, the more it MIGHT be worth it. Depends on which type of gamble you like. My opinion is that Applecare is way over-priced on the notebooks, and over the span of say, 10 years, you'll pay far more for it than for repairs. If you're the type that can't handle one-time expenses for repairs, get it. If you prefer to save money in the long run, don't.

Federal law prevents them from voiding the warranty unless they can PROVE that what you did caused the damage.

I've heard cases where AppleCare notes that as a problem and returns the 3rd party RAM in a static bag. All you'd need to do it pop them back in. As for the PCI cards, I don't see how that is in violation of any agreement. They put the slots there. They gotta figure some people are gonna stick something in.

That being said, I'd lean towards buying AppleCare only if I had a laptop. Those will fall apart much quicker than a desktop.

I'd say get it for any Mac that you intend to keep for more than a year. If you need it once, it will more than pay for itself.

But if you don't need it, that money could help pay for the next Mac... :D

Yeah, I tend to agree with Carlos on this one, but I don't really know "how often" do Desktops fail. Indeed, I was trying to put this in tems of "If in 10 years I expect them to fail only once, then its not worth it, but if they usually fail, say, 5 times in ten years, well..."

R.

Murphy's Law anyone? I have to recant my earlier suggestion.

Everytime I travel outside the country I buy traveller's insurance. Thankfully I've never had to use it. I always joke by saying that the one time I skip it I will need it.

If you don't purchase computers often, and this one will be your primary system, this it might be wise to purchase the AppleCare. I think a lot of people here have multiple systems and turn-over their technology fairly often, so for them AppleCare is a waste.

I'm on hold with Apple right now. They have charged me $50.00 for reporting a bad hard drive to them over the phone. The computer is under warranty but Apple charges me money to report the problem! So your 1 year warranty doesn't cover everything. And while making the warranty call I was told that since my Power Mac G5 was over 6 months old it was "out of shipping" and I would have to pay to have it shipped back to Apple. Again the 1 year warranty isn't quite what you might think. Fortunately I didn't have to ship the G5 back. They shipped me a new hard drive and I replaced the defective one. They did pay for return shipping of the defective hard drive. Perhaps I should charge Apple for replacing the drive! I could make back the money they are taking from me for reporting the problem in the first place. 39 minutes and still holding...

That sucks!

I didn't know about this "shipping time"

R.

After I was told about shipping time I went to the Apple web site and looked up the warranty info. There is some fine print about shipping charges to be determined by model, blah, blah. So Apple leaves itself some wiggle room on their web site.

My phone call ended up taking about an hour. Finally someone from Customer Service said that yes, records indicate that my earlier call was marked for no billing by the tech support guy but due to a "mistake" I was billed anyway. Add that to at least three other "mistakes" made during my initial phone call where I had to say, "No, this is under warranty, I'm not supposed to pay for that (name of part or service)."

I'd say the tech support system is set up to harvest dollars from people. Apple would have happily charged me for the part as well as the phone call and who knows what else. I was surprised how hard I had to work not to get charged. With all of that in mind Applecare starts to look like a bargain.

Right, but if you do, you'll never buy that next Mac. ;)

No, it's set up to prevent catastrophic loss of money, just like everywhere else.

If you want a decent support crew, you have to have well-trained people. But well-trained people won't work for peanuts, because their training eventually gives them the option of just quitting and getting a better job instead of answering phones all day long. Especially on inexpensive products, a single support call can wipe out the entire profit margin of a product sale as the call minutes roll by when you consider what it costs to answer the phone with a competent person counting salary, benefits, facilities, training, test labs, etc. Support is something everybody expects for free, yet it's murder on the operating budget, so companies are constantly trying to figure out how to provide support while not losing their shirts.

Yes, I used to work a tech support line, though not at Apple.

Oh, and to get back on topic, I'd get Applecare for laptops but maybe not for desktops since desktops don't get banged up around town. AppleCare sometimes does pay for itself depending on what Apple screwed up on my PowerBook. And Apple's pretty nice about your third-party upgrades. They'll just take them out and test for the problem with their own components to verify whether the problem is with an Apple part or not.

I agree that the support crew might not be trained to harvest money, but I completely disagree on we expecting to have support for free. As far as I understand, the support is included in the price we payed for our macs, and if we need it, we shouldn't be on hold for an hour, nor just forgive the "mistakes" as mclbruce mentioned for a service we already payed. Ok, if support is not profitable for Apple, then charge it more, put it as an option (which I guess is the whole idea of AppleCare)...

R.

I see your point. I have definitely noticed the whole industry is tightening up on support, it's not just Apple.

But, "Be careful about paying for phone support that you don't need to pay for" is going to be a tip I give people, just like I tell them that if they buy a new Mac at the Apple store the sales people will try very hard to talk them into buying .mac. I understand why Apple does these two things, but I'm not pleased that they do. There is more and more pressure on Apple employees to make or save money. This puts Apple's tech support and sales staff, more and more, into an adversary relationship with their customers.

All Apple said we got with our Macs is a year warranty and 90 days phone support. They don't promise quality of service. Whether Apple does or not, Consumer Reports' user survey put Apple at the top for support, so if we think we're getting a bad deal we can always go to Dell or Sony for a taste of actual hell. Dell just killed their online support forums, in fact, while Apple's are still going strong. Apple shouldn't be forgiven for problems they don't fix, but that's a different issue.

Also note that the price of Macs has gone down. We now have the $499 mini, and while I paid well over $3000 for a top-of-the-line PowerBook G3 in 2000, you can now get a well-equipped 17" PowerBook G4 for $2699. I thought it was a turning point in Mac history when the most expensive stock laptop at the Apple Store was no longer even close to $3000. If we assume that the cost of support is included, then it follows that Apple has less money to spend on support as one result of the dramatic price drops.

And you got it...in order to recover some costs, companies have programs like AppleCare where they can then afford to do better.

I've had excellent components replacement/repair and very good to excellent phone support under extended warranties over the 25 years I've owned Apple computers. I don't recall when the 3-year extended warranty went into effect, but I've always considered it a bargain when I've looked back on what I received for my investment.

Respectfully, Norm

Bruce, didn't they refund your $50 after it turned out you had a warranty-eligible issue?!

I think whomever you spoke with was an idiot. Apple doesn't offer mail-in service for desktop units of any kind.

So in the end, the replacement didn't cost you anything, right? Or did they still charge you the $50? If so, I think you need to call and demand a refund; as far as I know, you only pay for a phone support incident if it does not result in hardware repair.

Regarding the original topic:
AppleCare is basically insurance against the cost of hardware repairs and support. In the long run, assuming the insurance provider got their pricing scheme correct, the cost of insurance on average will outweigh the benefits. There is only one reason to ever buy insurance: if you cannot afford the possible costs of not having it. AppleCare for a PMG5 will cost you $250 for 2 years of additional coverage past the original warranty. You may never get one cent worth of benefits from that. But if you won't have the funds to spend $400 or $800 or possibly even more on a sudden repair, you need to have insurance.

Thanks for asking about this, I'm pretty sure it's all resolved now with me not paying anything in the end. Current status: A charge will appear on my statement, and a credit will be issued which will take effect in a week but not appear on my statement for a month or two.

To me the economics of insurance is like going to a casino and betting that your computer will fail (or you will die or get injured or whatever). If it does fail you win the bet and get enough money to pay off the repair. If it doesn't, you lose, the casino keeps your money. AppleCare is a little different because there are other benefits. You can call and get help with software problems (I think). But still the house gets to set the odds...

I think this is a very good point, and that's what I think of any insurance, but usually the cost of the insurance is somehow related to the possible cost of the benefit. I have to pay $500 dollars of car insurance a year, and I never had an accident. But if I happen to be in an accident where someone gets injured, the cost of not having insurance can go from hundreds of thousands of dollars to jail time!, therefore $1000 dollars for two years is definitely worth my peace of mind.

On the other hand, a paid $1500 for my powerbook, and something like $2700 for my PM (both with the student discount). The PB is almost a year old, and now I can find the same model (with the same upgrades) used for $1000... even in the worst scenario, the ratio price of insurance/benefit is two high!.

R.