To those who dislike Rap: Do you feel the same way about Hip-Hop?
Download some Talib Kweli and tell me if you think it's ear poison.

Just because something is said in a different format that you are used to (a Rap as opposed to Poetry), doesn't mean that it is inferior in anyway. In my opinion, great Hip-Hop is quite the opposite, superior to Poetry. It is beautiful poetry spoken with an emotional cadence.

I personally dislike most "commercial" Rap for many of the same reasons that I dislike most of today's pop music. It lacks emotion and feels uninspired at best. I do, however, love Hip-Hop and its unique form of expression.

*Edited out a childish argument*

I like this thread a lot to pick up music I might have missed and posts like Arctic's playlist are most interesting to me.

Although passionate opinions about music are understandable, it would probably do the thread a lot of good to avoid personal attacks.

Fruitful debate requires mutual respect even if you dislike your opponents opinions.

And the non-debatable parts which are just differences in personal taste would best be settled by agreeing to disagree.

Listening with the Inner Ear
 

In regards to Art, many people voice the cliché-filled opion: “I may not know anything about art, but I know what I like.” And so they write off as inferior or nonsensical trash all non-figurative art, for instance, and might be unable to see the intrinsic beauty of masterpieces created by artists from so-called primitive cultures. (I actually wept when I saw the cave paintings of France; how can any of us feel “superior” to those achievements!?)

One of the things I sorely regret was not taking a course in Music Appreciation.

At the university, I did a double major in Studio Art and Mathematics – but tasting many things along the way (like a kid overwhelmed in a candy shop of learning). Physics, applied kinesiology, history of photography, Chinese history, humanistic and transpersonal psychology, poetry and poetics, comparisons between the world views of native American tribes and the overculture, etc etc.

Every field of knowledge (and aesthetics) has its own particular language. In fact, the first few years of medical studies, law school or engineering are spent learning the language, so as to be able to deal with the knowledge at all!

Now, what does that tell me? A lot of the music that I now love, I couldn’t stand upon initial listening. I had to overcome initial shock, put preconceptions aside, and honestly try to hear its inner impulse. True listening is not done with the ear.

It’s given me immense joy that Music is so diverse, and until the day I die, I expect to be discovering artists and genres, countries and cultures that have their own fascinating means of expression.

* * *

I am told that Man probably made Music before we created Language. Now that has fascinating implications…

* * *

Sure, there are different tastes. But I am no relativist who claims that everything is just a matter of taste. There is such a thing as Quality – and it is recognised with our Inner Ear. (Hence there is not truly a need for specialised knowledge about the various arts and music, although that might help us to learn to truly listen or see.)

You would, for example, probably not find a single professional classical musician who would claim that Sibelius was a better composer than Bach. But many might tell you that they prefer to play the great Finnish composer on their hi-fi when they get home.

Billie Holiday’s singing is not a “style”; I can’t stand the imitators. Those more literate in Rap than I, might venture strong opions about Tupac compared to, say, 50 Cent. The Romanian pan-flute virtuoso Gheorghe Zamfir made wonderful stuff before he became just “a virtuoso”. Give me Carole King’s “Tapestry”, (some) Madonna or anything by Norah Jones, but I’ll pass on Britney Spears and Julio Iglesias. I confess a preference for Peter Gabriel over Dr Dre, but appreciate both. And you can have Elton John if you give me the collected works of Pink Floyd.

* * *

Well, I am eagerly waiting for someone to pick up the thread, introducing me to great music that I have not yet heard.

:)

– ArcticStones

Thats funny.

I am taking Music Appreciation this year. :)

Do they cover Rap and HipHop? ;)

Agreed but there is no respect in the when in the statement "Those who like Rap, hate em". I happen to like Rap and pantherman hates me for no reason, where is the respect there. I don't think that mutual respect is attainable when someone hates blindly and prejudges before discovery. I will in future posts try to make a more articulate and less childish argument but a line was crossed and I think that something needed to be said about it. I am not looking to change peoples opinions about music, to each his own. Rather, I thought something needed to be said about the people he insulted for the sole fact that the like rap music.

To pantherman,
I do apologize for acting like an ass myself. I do, however, urge you to not have hatred for people who like a certain type of music.

I also think you should check out some quality Hip-Hop and perhaps you will see how beautiful a rap can be:

• BlackStar
• Common
• The Fugees
• Genus Pro.
• Jurassic 5
• Mos Def
• Pharoahe Monch
• The Roots
• Talib Kweli

ArcticStones:

Have you ever heard of Cachao (Cuban upright bass player)? If not, you should check him out.

I will definitely do so, and I’ll also check out Xlax and FatElvis’ suggestions for broadening my Rap and HipHop horizons. One of my best friends raves about Cuba, its people and music, after visiting the country twice – and falling in love. I myself know far too little about Cuban music, but have heard some fine collaborations that Ry Cooder did.

Glad to see the temperature has cooled down, as Voldenuit suggested.
:) Let’s get on with the music!

Pantherman, thanks for starting this thread! When it comes to classical music, I am curious – who are your favourite 20th and 21st century composers? Any recent classical works that have caught your ear?


Best regards,
– ArcticStones

I don't know about Cohen, but some say that Dylan was the first rapper, and I think Danny Kay beat him to it in the forties and fifties.

I agree about Eminem, but I think right now he represents Rap. As with any human endeavor, you can always find lots of exceptions to any rule, but Rap (his and others) is generally too misogynistic and it glorifies so called street life too much. I think that everyone should aspire to something higher. Punks like Tupac simply are not comparable to people like B.B. King and Duke Ellington in Jazz, Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley in Rock, or Johnny Cash and Patsy Kline in Country. In any case, that's all I have to say about Rap unless somebody can come up with a better reason to listen to it. Keeping an open mind is one thing, but experience is the basis for judgment, and I've experienced much more of it than I care to remember.

Those who don't like Country often don't realize that much of Dylan's work is considered to be Country, and so is that of the Eagles. Who doesn't like Hotel California or Lyin' Eyes? Country songs if ever there was one. I don't point these out as simple exceptions. The point is that there are lots of songs that many people think are Rock, but are actually Country.

Nu-mark. Cut Chemist. Soup. Chali 2na. Akil. Marc 7. The best.

HAHA...what happened to the internet? I call someone an ass and people get all huffy. Okay, Okay...If pantherman can admit that rap is not a plague on society, I can easily admit he's not an ass. nor is anyone else on this board.

*grouphug*

anywho....the other day on NPR I heard a segment about how many classical songs are being re-wrote into shorter versions. They said today's society can't tolerate a 13-minute song. So much for Zepplin. Check my signature. It's for a band which some might still consider noise, Godspeed You Black Emperor. They have sort of evolved into the Silver Mt. Zion Trio, but put out similar music. I recommend them highly.

Oh yeah, ArcticStones...."Anyways, that’s my 50 cents." Not sure if you put that pun in on purpose, but 50-Cent is one of today's more popular rappers :D Not a good one, just popular ;)

nice...I saw the Invisible Scratch Pickles final show at the Fillmore. Cut Chemist and DJ Shadow did a set together. damn, that was awesome.

P.S. Invisible Scratch Pickles = DJ QBert, Magic Mike, Short Cut. Now defunct, but the most powerful DJ trio of their time.

QBert is awesome.

I've met J-5 2x. Once after a show in Chapel Hill, and then again after a show in London. Really nice dudes. Love the old school hip-hop. Hate the dirty south. it's all lame hooks and high-hats to cover people's lack of lyrics and skills.

Seems like much of America is content to listen to the same old 60's and 70's standards, still hear a lot of classic rock coming out of people's stereos. That stuff really is classic, but geez, there's so much to discover. We are as far away from the 1960's as the 1960's were from the 1920's.

I like anything except most rap and most country. I have tons of basic "3-chord guitar bass and drums" rock but since it hasn't really changed much since the 60s I don't listen to it much anymore. I dislike most disco but I love good electronic music, some of which can approach classical in its complexity yet you can move your butt to it (Meat Beat Manifesto, old Orbital).

Firstly, Your Welcome!

Secondly, No. I haven't heard any of the newer composers works. I really like Gershwin, and John Williams is pretty good. The majority of my iTunes library is of the old guys, particularly Mozart. The Wolfgang Amadeus Mozrt smart playlist is 1.41 GBs in size, and my iTunes library is only 2.34 GBs in size. Thats saying something. If you have any modern composers to suggest, I would love to hear them. :)

Now I would like to publicly apologize to those that I have offended in this post. The post was never intended for that. I don't hate Rap. Hate is such an ugly word. I prefer classical over rap, that is all. Now I hope we can but the past behind us and continue in this free exchange of cultural ideas, opinions, and understanding!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Actually, my band instructor, also the teacher of the course, said it is going to really be Music History, ranging all the way from the Renaissance to modern times.

I know what you are all thinking. Why isn't it called Music History, then?

Good question. :)




:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Then give me a copy of an orchestral version of Franz Liszt's "St. Francis' Sermon for the Birds". There's only 1 orchestral version I've ever heard and the CD is long out of print. Everything else is on piano..

??? I must have missed something... :confused: :o

You prefer Classical. I'm hoping you have an extensive library. Apparently not.

But I have to try.. Eventually I'll find it.

I'm guessing you're young.

Good music is good music, whatever the era. More doesn't mean better any more than new does, and new stuff will always seem to outnumber the old since the bad songs haven't been filtered out by time.