Tiger crashes regularly
 

I have a 15" Powerbook G4 with one gb memory (installed by Apple). Afer installing Tiger I get random crashes (You must restart your computer blue screen of death with multiple languages).

Actions taken thus far:
1. Run extended hardware tests (single and looped). No errors on hardware or memory
2. As I had done a upgrade from Panther vs a clean install, I took the leap and re-installed Tiger from scratch with a hard disk reformat
3. Installed apps, but still get the random crashes.
4. Apps used: Tiger 10.4.1, Safari with no plugins, Office Mac 2004 with updates, ILife 5, Photoshop Elements 3, Nortons 10 anti-virus with scan on mount disabled, VPC 7.01, Toast, Pyramid, Omnigraffle, Pacafist, XPlane 8 and ISync->Entourage..... Nothing unusual

Any additional ideas for trying as this crash happens around twice/day

Thanks...Rob

two options:

1) use the recovery cd that came with ur pb and then upgrade the os using tiger's dvd.

this will make your computer work.


2)trash the pb and never use a computer again

Follow all the advice and then just get used to restarting your PB 3 or 4 times a day like I'm having to do.

The sentiment on this forum seems to be that there is no problem and it's all in our heads or we're just being finicky, but I tracked down some forums through Apple's own site last night and there was a ton of complaining about freezing and crashing with Tiger and YES complaining that none of the usual remedies work to fix the problem(s).

Some things that I've found that make life a bit easier are: SAVE, SAVE, SAVE, DON'T LEAVE APPS OPEN IF I'M GOING TO CLOSE THE LID, DON'T DRAG A NEWLY INSTALLED APP TO THE DOCK AND THEN CLOSE THE LID (WHETHER OR NOT THE NEW APP IS RUNNING), DON'T PLAY GAMES AT POGO.COM.

Use the PC until Apple comes out with a fix - or at least wakes up and realizes that there is a problem.

Margaret

Ideas:

1) Post some of your relevant logs. That will help people help you.

2) It's been said that Norton doesn't play nice. Do a search here for Norton and see if that might have something to do with it.

You are getting a kernel panic. Please post the panic logs, found in /Library/Logs/panic.log.

Do you have any peripherals plugged in? Have you removed them all?

For the record, I have a 15" AlPB running Tiger and don't have kernel panics. I have at least 10 users who all have the same model (more or less) and don't have kernel panics running Tiger.

The original poster already stated that he tried a clean install and it still didn't work.

I think there's a little bit more we can try before going this route, don't you think?

I haven't seen such sentiment expressed on these forums.
But your (winwintoo) problem seems from your previous posts to be a wake-from-sleep freeze. That is quite different from a kernel panic as experienced by the original poster in this thread. And I note that you haven't responded to my latest suggestions in this other thread:
http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=39232

about Tiger crashes
 

I upgraded to Tiger a couple of weeks ago (am running 10.4.1 on a dual-boot G4.)

I too have been getting kernel panics and it seems almost certain that it's due to a DVD drive I purchased at the same time. (LaCie d2 external firewire.) It happens about once a day unless I have the drive detached as I do now. I've upgraded Toast to 6.1 which is supposed to be Tiger-compatible but the only thing it seems to have fixed is the clattering sound the drive gives me at the time it crashes.

I've been to LaCie's site and there are various flashers and updaters for Mac and PC but nothing seems to be there for Tiger.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Ed

Even though there is no update specifically for Tiger, the latest driver update might be more recent than what you received with your DVD drive, so it might be worth updating. Check the version numbers and maybe write to LaCie's support.

Thank you. Yes, I have checked the versions and also wrote to them yesterday. I'm also concerned about messing up the drive; I started to use the flasher (I think.) but it warned me it was not for my system and use at my own risk or words to that effect.

Ed

Tiger - Cannot Restart
 

Since installing Tiger I cannot Restart my iMac.
When I go to Restart or Shut Down, all the icons on my Desktop dissappear and I'm left with my blue screen - and that's the way it stays. I've left it like that for almost 30 minutes and nothing happens.

I have Repaired Permissions but the only way I can turn my computer on and off is by pressing the button on the side of my Mac.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Can you start up from the Tiger install disk? Hold down the C key. Then in the menu choose, "utilities" then disk utility and try repairing the disk using repair disk on the right after choosing the disk. If worse comes to worse, you may have to reinstall Tiger.

So it sounds like the problem is with the shutdown (it has to shutdown before it can restart). It may be that some program is causing problems when you shutdown. Try quitting all programs one by one before shutting down. Consider also any programs that may be running invisibly in the background - e.g. virus scanners etc and disable them while troubleshooting.

Launch the "Console" application (under /Applications/Utilities) and look for relevant error messages. Note that messages are labeled with the date & time so you can use that to locate the part of the log to look at. Copy & paste the relevant messages back here so we can see them.

And try the standard troubleshooting suggestions:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...04011205473937
http://forums.osxfaq.com/viewtopic.php?t=7269
http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/faqs.html

Tiger - Cannot Restart
 

Hre's what I see in Console


Mac OS X Version 10.4.1 (Build 8B15)
2005-06-20 23:42:36 -0400
2005-06-20 23:42:37.186 loginwindow[74] FSResolveAliasWithMountFlags returned err = -43
2005-06-20 23:42:39.234 SystemUIServer[92] lang is:en

And do those messages correspond with the time that you tried (but failed) to shutdown?
You want to look for messages that are relevant to the problem at hand - based on the times of the messages.


Have you tried logging out of your usual user account and then logging in on another (preferably freshly created) user account?
That is an easy and fast thing to try and narrows down the problem a lot.
(The Accounts preferences is where you create new accounts.)

And have you (as recommended in that troubleshooting guide linked to above) disconnected all non-Apple peripherals - e.g. USB stuff and external disk drives ?

cannot Shut Down or Restart
 

Thanks for your help.
I detached the hub and have only the essential Mouse & keyboard attcahed. I also created a new account but still cannot Shut Down or Restart from the Desktop.

The following corresponds to shutting down and restarting (with the buttom on the side of my iMac) this morning.

Mac OS X Version 10.4.1 (Build 8B15)
2005-06-21 08:41:04 -0400
2005-06-21 08:41:05.320 loginwindow[74] FSResolveAliasWithMountFlags returned err = -43
Jun 21 08:41:05 Robert-Blackmores-Computer mDNSResponder: Adding browse domain local.
2005-06-21 08:41:08.303 SystemUIServer[92] lang is:en

Should I reinstall Tiger?

Despite everything, including removing the firewire DVD drive, I'm still getting the occasional kernel panic attack. It may be that I'll have wait for the second Tiger update which will hopefully be more stable.

Anyway, Thanks,

Ed

I think that what you have posted looks like part of your console.log, and it comprises startup messages not shutdown.

You need to look at your system.log, and look for a line that begins "shutdown" at the time you initiated shutdown. Post the lines shortly before that.

Is there anything in your panic.log that might confirm the problem - or point to it being elsewhere? You can access this log at /Library/Logs/panic.log

I can't find it but made copies of crash reports sent to Apple with the drive attached:

I eliminated the lists of devices for the sake of space and I can't make head or tail of this.

Thanks,

Ed

EDIT: Folded into code tags. - yellow

I'm not sure what you mean by the "lists of devices" but you should show us the full logs - someone here might see a clue in the parts you have left out.
Note that you can attach them as plain text files via the "Manage Attachments" button that is at the bottom when you reply.

Please launch the "Terminal" application (under /Applications/Utilities) and copy & paste the following commands, press Return, then copy & paste the results back here so we can see:

ls -l /Library/Logs
echo ---------------

Last login: Tue Jun 21 15:55:52 on console
Welcome to Darwin!
You have new mail.
[Edward-Golds-Computer:~] edwardgo%
[Edward-Golds-Computer:~] edwardgo% ls -l /Library/Logs
total 40
drwxrwxr-x 3 root admin 102 May 31 17:48 Console
drwxr-xr-x 8 root admin 272 Jun 18 11:21 CrashReporter
drwxrwxr-x 6 root admin 204 Feb 7 09:02 DirectoryService
-rw-r--r-- 1 edwardgo admin 3606 Jun 8 17:32 Software Update.log
-rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 15888 Jun 21 04:42 panic.log
echo ---------------[Edward-Golds-Computer:~] edwardgo% echo ---------------

my 2 conplete crash messages with devices shown
 

Lacie DVD drive not attached:

Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 0): 0x300 - Data access DAR=0x0000000088005B21 PC=0x000000000003FCF0
Latest crash info for cpu 0:
Exception state (sv=0x26E53780)
PC=0x0003FCF0; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x88005B21; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0003FCD8; R1=0x11FEBD80; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x016F4AA0 0x0027ED48 0x0027E988 0x002A8604 0x000ABCB0 0x50574D2F
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x26E53780)
previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
Exception state (sv=0x26E55780)
PC=0x90031030; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x0F1F3014; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x00002AD4; R1=0xF00809A0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.1.0: Tue May 10 18:16:08 PDT 2005; root:xnu-792.1.5.obj~4/RELEASE_PPC
panic(cpu 0 caller 0xFFFF0003): 0x300 - Data access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x00095564 0x00095A7C 0x0002683C 0x000A819C 0x000ABB00
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x26E53780)
PC=0x0003FCF0; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x88005B21; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0003FCD8; R1=0x11FEBD80; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x016F4AA0 0x0027ED48 0x0027E988 0x002A8604 0x000ABCB0 0x50574D2F
Exception state (sv=0x26E55780)
PC=0x90031030; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x0F1F3014; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x00002AD4; R1=0xF00809A0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.1.0: Tue May 10 18:16:08 PDT 2005; root:xnu-792.1.5.obj~4/RELEASE_PPCModel: PowerMac3,6, BootROM 4.4.8f2, 1 processors, PowerPC G4 (3.3), 1.25 GHz, 768 MB
Graphics: ATI Radeon 9000 Pro, ATY,RV250, AGP, 64 MB
Memory Module: DIMM0/J21, 256 MB, DDR SDRAM, PC2600U-25330
Memory Module: DIMM1/J22, 512 MB, DDR SDRAM, PC2600U-25330
Modem: Dash2, UCJ, V.92, 1.0F, APPLE VERSION 2.6.4
Network Service: Built-in Ethernet, Ethernet, en0
PCI Card: pci1412,d634, sppci_audio, SLOT-5
Parallel ATA Device: IC35L040AVVA07-0, 38.35 GB
Parallel ATA Device: TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-R1312,
Parallel ATA Device: IBM-IC35L090AVV207-0, 76.69 GB
USB Device: Hub in Apple Pro Keyboard, Mitsumi Electric, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse® 1.0A, Microsoft, Up to 1.5 Mb/sec, 100 mA
USB Device: Apple Pro Keyboard, Mitsumi Electric, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 250 mA
USB Device: Apple internal modem, HCF USB V.90 Data/Fax Modem, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: Hub, , Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: EPSON Scanner, EPSON, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: MT4, Emagic GmbH, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: deskjet 5550, hp, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA

LaCie attached:

Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 0): 0x300 - Data access DAR=0x000000000000000C PC=0x000000000015EA60
Latest crash info for cpu 0:
Exception state (sv=0x26E26C80)
PC=0x0015EA60; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x0000000C; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0015EF94; R1=0x1214BCF0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x538DF1C1 0x0015EF94 0x00288758 0x0003C738 0x000A9694
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x26E26C80)
previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
Exception state (sv=0x26B68500)
PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x00000000; DSISR=0x00000000; LR=0x00000000; R1=0x00000000; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.1.0: Tue May 10 18:16:08 PDT 2005; root:xnu-792.1.5.obj~4/RELEASE_PPC
panic(cpu 0 caller 0xFFFF0003): 0x300 - Data access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x00095564 0x00095A7C 0x0002683C 0x000A819C 0x000ABB00
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x26E26C80)
PC=0x0015EA60; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x0000000C; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0015EF94; R1=0x1214BCF0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x538DF1C1 0x0015EF94 0x00288758 0x0003C738 0x000A9694
Exception state (sv=0x26B68500)
PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x00000000; DSISR=0x00000000; LR=0x00000000; R1=0x00000000; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.1.0: Tue May 10 18:16:08 PDT 2005; root:xnu-792.1.5.obj~4/RELEASE_PPC
Model: PowerMac3,6, BootROM 4.4.8f2, 1 processors, PowerPC G4 (3.3), 1.25 GHz, 768 MB
Graphics: ATI Radeon 9000 Pro, ATY,RV250, AGP, 64 MB
Memory Module: DIMM0/J21, 256 MB, DDR SDRAM, PC2600U-25330
Memory Module: DIMM1/J22, 512 MB, DDR SDRAM, PC2600U-25330
Modem: Dash2, UCJ, V.92, 1.0F, APPLE VERSION 2.6.4
Network Service: Built-in Ethernet, Ethernet, en0
PCI Card: pci1412,d634, sppci_audio, SLOT-5
Parallel ATA Device: IC35L040AVVA07-0, 38.35 GB
Parallel ATA Device: TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-R1312,
Parallel ATA Device: IBM-IC35L090AVV207-0, 76.69 GB
USB Device: Hub in Apple Pro Keyboard, Mitsumi Electric, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse® 1.0A, Microsoft, Up to 1.5 Mb/sec, 100 mA
USB Device: Apple Pro Keyboard, Mitsumi Electric, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 250 mA
USB Device: Hub, , Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: EPSON Scanner, EPSON, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: MT4, Emagic GmbH, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: deskjet 5550, hp, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
FireWire Device: > LaCie d2 DVD-RW Firewire, LaCie Group SA, Up to 400 Mb/sec

How do I do that?

There's that panic.log you said that you had trouble finding.

See the middle paragraph of post #13 above.

You need to disconnect all of your non-Apple peripherals while troubleshooting. You seem to have a whole bunch of USB devices attached - remove them. Don't use the MS Wireless Optical mouse - use the Apple-issued mouse that came with your computer.
The idea is to simplify the system - get it back to what Apple shipped to you. Then gradually, one by one add devices back on to see what is causing the problem.
And is that PCI card one that came with the computer or did you add it in afterwards?

Yes, Apple Care told me the same thing but there are a number of problems connected with this. The kernel panic happens occasionally and I'd have to run the computer for many days or even weeks under these circumstances to prove anything. And this is a working computer.

The PCI card is an audio card added by my Apple reseller, TekServe, who configured the computer. I'm running a MIDI-audio setup and do sequencing and composing. The additional memory, not Apple's they say, was also added by them.

The suggestion they made was to do the Hardware test or the Tech Tool Deluxe that Apple Care sent me (without allowing it to repair anything.). I can certainly use the Apple mouse for a time instead of the MS wireless, the transmitter of which is plugged into the keyboard hub and could easily be a source of some of the problems.

Many thanks,

Ed

Tiger - cannot shut down
 

From the system.log here is what happens when I cannot Shut Down from the Desktop.


Jun 22 08:16:24 Robert-Blackmores-Computer loginwindow[75]: sendQuitEventToApp (iCalAlarmScheduler): AESendMessage returned error -609
Jun 22 08:16:28 Robert-Blackmores-Computer shutdown: halt by robertblackmore:
Jun 22 08:16:30 Robert-Blackmores-Computer SystemStarter[390]: authentication service (417) did not complete successfully
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: standard timeslicing quantum is 10000 us
Jun 22 08:17:55 localhost mDNSResponder-107 (Mar 20 2005 20: 31:47)[48]: starting
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: vm_page_bootstrap: 125134 free pages
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: mig_table_max_displ = 70
Jun 22 08:17:55 localhost lookupd[46]: lookupd (version 365) starting - Wed Jun 22 08:17:55 2005
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: 80 prelinked modules
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: using 1310 buffer headers and 1310 cluster IO buffer headers
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: FireWire (OHCI) Apple ID 30 built-in now active, GUID 000393ff fe7bda4c; max speed s400.
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: Security auditing service present
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: BSM auditing present
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: disabled
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: rooting via boot-uuid from /chosen: 5DF61345-1878-3B57-9D17-D4D059EEC3F5
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: Waiting on <dict ID="0"><key>IOProviderClass</key><string ID="1">IOResources</string><key>IOResourceMatch</key><string ID="2">boot-uuid-media</string></dict>
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: Got boot device = IOService:/MacRISC2PE/pci@f2000000/AppleMacRiscPCI/mac-io@17/AppleKeyLargo/ata-4@1f000/KeyLargoATA/ATADeviceNub@0/IOATABlockStorageDriver/IOATABlockStorageDevice/IOBlockStorageDriver/HDS722512VLAT80 Media/IOApplePartitionScheme/Apple_HFS_Untitled_2@10
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: BSD root: disk0s10, major 14, minor 9
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: jnl: replay_journal: from: 14525440 to: 2759680 (joffset 0xc99000)
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: HFS: Removed 6 orphaned unlinked files
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: Jettisoning kernel linker.
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: Resetting IOCatalogue.
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: Matching service count = 2
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: Matching service count = 4
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: Matching service count = 4
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: Matching service count = 4
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: Matching service count = 4
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: NVDANV10HAL loaded and registered.
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost kernel[0]: IPv6 packet filtering initialized, default to accept, logging disabled
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost xinetd[52]: xinetd Version 2.3.11 started with libwrap options compiled in.
Jun 22 08:17:56 localhost xinetd[52]: Started working: 0 available services
Jun 22 08:17:57 localhost kernel[0]: UniNEnet: Ethernet address 00:03:93:7b:da:4c
Jun 22 08:17:57 localhost diskarbitrationd[40]: disk0s10 hfs 5DF61345-1878-3B57-9D17-D4D059EEC3F5 Macintosh HD /
Jun 22 08:17:57 localhost diskarbitrationd[40]: disk1s6 hfs 8FB2DC23-EEB5-34A5-A3AA-00207B99A713 LaCie HD [not mounted]
Jun 22 08:17:58 localhost kernel[0]: NVDA,NVMac: vram [98000000:04000000]
Jun 22 08:17:58 localhost launchd: Server 291f in bootstrap 1103 uid 0: "/usr/sbin/lookupd"[46]: exited abnormally: Hangup
Jun 22 08:17:58 localhost lookupd[73]: lookupd (version 365) starting - Wed Jun 22 08:17:58 2005
Jun 22 08:17:59 localhost /System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Contents/MacOS/loginwindow: Login Window Application Started
Jun 22 08:17:59 localhost loginwindow[74]: Login Window Started Security Agent
Jun 22 08:18:00 localhost kernel[0]: UniNEnet::monitorLinkStatus - Link is up at 100 Mbps - Full Duplex
Jun 22 08:18:00 localhost configd[38]: AppleTalk startup
Jun 22 08:18:00 Robert-Blackmores-Computer configd[38]: setting hostname to "Robert-Blackmores-Computer.local"
Jun 22 08:18:04 Robert-Blackmores-Computer mDNSResponder: Adding browse domain local.
Jun 22 08:18:05 Robert-Blackmores-Computer launchd: Server 0 in bootstrap 1103 uid 0: "/usr/sbin/lookupd"[73]: exited abnormally: Hangup
Jun 22 08:18:05 Robert-Blackmores-Computer lookupd[110]: lookupd (version 365) starting - Wed Jun 22 08:18:05 2005
Jun 22 08:18:06 Robert-Blackmores-Computer configd[38]: AppleTalk startup complete
Jun 22 08:18:06 Robert-Blackmores-Computer configd[38]: executing /System/Library/SystemConfiguration/Kicker.bundle/Contents/Resources/enable-network
Jun 22 08:18:06 Robert-Blackmores-Computer configd[38]: posting notification com.apple.system.config.network_change
Jun 22 08:18:06 Robert-Blackmores-Computer launchd: Server 4d0f in bootstrap 1103 uid 0: "/usr/sbin/lookupd"[110]: exited abnormally: Hangup
Jun 22 08:18:06 Robert-Blackmores-Computer lookupd[112]: lookupd (version 365) starting - Wed Jun 22 08:18:06 2005
Jun 22 08:18:10 Robert-Blackmores-Computer diskarbitrationd[40]: disk1s6 hfs 8FB2DC23-EEB5-34A5-A3AA-00207B99A713 LaCie HD /Volumes/LaCie HD
Jun 22 08:18:11 Robert-Blackmores-Computer configd[38]: target=enable-network: disabled
aped[62]: Attach denied: super-user process, for SmallScanner[157]

You could try testing the RAM with 'memtest':
http://www.memtestosx.org/

This is the first line you posted so you might want to check back a little further to make sure there are no other processes with interesting messages.

Try another restart, but before you do so check in Activity Monitor to see if the process "iCalAlarmScheduler" is not responding. Either way force quit the process, and now restart. See if the computer behaves.

If the process is not responding and you are using iCal with some kind of 3rd party add-on, it might be a good idea to disable the add-on, and see if that improves things.

PS You also appear to be using APE, which is known to give some issues. It would be a good idea to disable this too, and see if that helps.

I note a few things:
1) There is some issue with iCal - so check what alarms/events you have there and maybe try deleting some, or removing the preference file, etc.

2) There might be some issue with the "authentication service". Is there anything non-standard about the way accounts are set up on this machine. Do you use some network-based authentication?

3) You seem to be using Unsanity's APE. This might be implicated in system instability. You should try disabling it, or (preferably) uninstalling it.

Thank you. Though I can't really understand how to go into single user mode (I thought I was normally in that!), both the hardware test and what I was able to do on memtest (takes forever!), showed the memory to be normal and everything else seems normal as well.

What does seem to be the case is that OS9 may be the ultimate culprit and when I allowed the computer to repair it yesterday after a crash, it seems to have solved the problem for the moment.

Ed

"single-user mode" is a Unix term.
See this Apple document:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106388

It is best to do filesystem repairs using the OS X version of the utilities.
See this Apple doc:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106214

Thanks. I think I understand.

same problems here
 

hi all
just to add my experience:
i use tiger on a g5 2ghz, with 3rd party ram installed. since upgrading to tiger i have the same problems as described above:

• random crashes with total freezes
• sometimes crashes where the "you have to restart your comp.."-kernel-panic-message appears.
• not possible to restart the machine from the menu. the fans turn up to a aeroplane like noise, the screen remains black. hard reboot is necessary.

i installed tiger 3 times now on a clean partition. always hoping it would resolve something. inbetween i went back to work with my panther installation (on another partition), but there i started to experience crashes too, though i did not work with tiger... very strange.

assuna

Hi
I would like to explain a little bit further my situation:
After a few days of working with tiger i observed that probably safari is the culprit for my system freezes. Safari works fine for some time, like 10 min., then it just stops to function.
when i click on a link or try to open a page from my bookmarks, safari just starts to spin, as if the page was not available or the connection so slow, that it would take some time to load the page. but then nothing more happens, at least in safari. then slowly all of my other open apps stop working. first i can not launch apps anymore, then the finder does not respond at all anymore and i have to do a hard reboot.
i tried to look at the logs, but there is nothing to see. not in system.log, not in safari.crash.log. if there is another log, that could reveal anything, please someone tell me it's name.
thank you (writing this in safari, before it crashes next time...)
assuna

assuna

You appear to be prejudging your issue as software related but your first post indicates that the problem is most likely to be hardware related.

The problems you are having with Safari may well be caused by a hardware issue - the fact that other applications also become unusable eventually forcing a restart would tend to confirm my viewpoint.

I would start by doing the following:-

1. Disconnect all peripherals except mouse and keyboard.

2. Boot your computer into 'Safe Mode' as shown in this Apple Document: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107393

If after this you still have issues then I think you have a hardware problem. You will need to isolate that problem. I would run the Apple Hardware Test that came with your computer and see if that pulls up a problem. Then I would test your memory (the Apple hardware test is not thought to test memory adequately) with memtest, a link to which was given earlier in this thread.

If you have still not isolated the problem, post back. But I would start a new thread rather than tacking your problems onto an existing thread. Please describe the problem as clearly as possible - nobody can see your computer so they have to rely on your description to see the problem.

hi bramley
thank you for your answer.
i will try what you suggested.
but i like to mention that when i use another browser (firefox right now) these things do not happen.
assuna

I even have an iBook clamshell (without FireWire & only 192MB ram) running tiger with no problems, kernel panics are nasty buggers tho :(

Whoa. SLOW DOWN. This thread is traveling faster than it needs to. If those having crashes really want a solution, you're gonna have to take Hayne's advice. You have too many things inputting to ever find a solution.

"soferfam", since you were the first to post on this, try this:

1. Remove suspect software. You suggest "nothing unusual" but the fact that you mention "Norton" is a red flag to me. Unless you can find someone who has had a Mac virus in the last few years, I'd remove that problematic software forever.

2. Disconnect all USB hubs and devices. A crap USB hub can kernel a Mac, I know from personal experience.

I know those that are experiencing crashes hate to hear this, but the only way to test the actual Tiger OS is these steps:
1. disconnect all peripherals,
2. zero the drive,
3. install Tiger with a fresh install from the FULL OS DISK (not an upgrade)
4. rebuild your User account from scratch (no, you can *not* copy it over)
5. Copy zero (that's "0") preferences, applications, etc. over from your "other drive"

Then, run Tiger, with nothing but Tiger. No other applications, no third party anything. Don't hook up "just my Logitech mouse". Nothing. Run Tiger for twice as long as it used to take for you to get a crash/kernel panic.

If you still get a crash/kernel, then and only then will you know that Tiger is the culprit. Until then, every thing else is suspect.

I know the above from personal experience. I crashed like crazy for the first 2 weeks of Tiger, pissing and moaning about it. But in the back of my mind, I knew I'd broken two of the hard fast rules I'd set for myself years back: 1. I "upgraded", and 2. I copied over my User account. I finally realized I had to bite the bullet, and followed the above steps exactly.

I'm convinced that most of the Tiger crashes are coming from copying over ones User account. I mean, who wants to rebuild the User account??? But I'd bet money that by following the steps above, you'll be running right with Tiger.

I'm going to chime in here again although I don't yet have a solution.

When I first installed Tiger on my 1Ghz PB, I was getting crashes and seemed to be able to "create" a crash situation by taking certain steps. I was convinced that Tiger was the culprit.

Hayne (and others) suggested the steps that they've outlined here, but I was convinced that it was Tiger and was slow to follow their advice.

Fast forward a bit, that PB got so "sick" crashing in ways I couldn't reproduce, refusing to wake from sleep and when I did coax it to wake up, it would have forgotten the date and so on - started to look like hardware.

It was time for a new PB anyway so I got a new 'book and zeroed the old one and did a clean install of Tiger (again) and it still crashes and refuses to wake from sleep and the clock won't remember the date - definitely hardware - might just be the little battery, might be more - don't know yet, it's in the shop as we speak.

Tiger works fine on the new PB and I have none of the problems that I experienced on the other one.

That's not to say you aren't having problems or to make light of your frustrations, but I think Tiger might challenge certain machines in unexpected ways and doing as these fellows suggest is the only way to isolate the problem. I wish I had followed their advice at the outset and saved myself a couple weeks of grief while I wrestled with it.

Take care, Margaret

You nailed it. Tiger's main glitch is that it needs a clean slate on which to rest. Nothing can be pulled over that has Panther written on it, except ones documents, images, music, and the like. No porting over applications, User accounts, settings, preferences, printer setups, NOTHING. You gotta reinstall every single thing.

(and, as Margaret said, no discounting that you could have a hardware problem)

So far, to save time, I've Upgraded (using the button) 50 Macs of various ages and types to Tiger. Some from Jaguar, and some from Panther. So far I've only had 1 problem, and it's with a TiPB that has always been flaky.

So I would say, in my experience, Tiger does not need to be installed on a clean slate. Again.. in my experience.

That's funny, the user account I migrated over from Panther works perfectly. Ditto the ones on my server. And the other computers on which I've installed Tiger. And my friends' computers. Archive and Install, Preserving Users and Network Settings == hotness.

Margaret's (winwintoo's) post caught my attention even before this one.

I'm going to try to write this without offending anyone, as that is certainly not my intention here.

So.

An open letter to anyone having problems:

The experiences of the users who have only had problems and repeated problems cannot be taken as canon; the best advice--and the advice to which you should listen most intently--comes not from those whose experiences are, hitherto, nothing but headaches. They can typically only see the problems they've encountered, and not the entire matrix of issues vs the population section experiencing no problems at all.

There is rarely validity or veracity in such extremes as "you can't migrate ANYTHING" or "this problem is WIDESPREAD and Apple needs to acknowledge this problem exists" when there isn't any actual, verifiable, hard data on the matter. So far, there exists only a very, very, very small handful of WIDELY varied complaints on these types of problems. This is typical with any large-scale user migration--the law of large numbers dictates that there will be a section of the statistical base that encounters problems. This is standard curve stuff. I've heard the same types of complaints with /every/ OS upgrade in the last ten years. This goes for Windows, too.

The bottom line is that if you disconnect everything except the power and input peripherals included in the box, erase the hard drive, and install Tiger on a computer, it should run just fine. If it doesn't, there is a hardware problem that needs attention. If you buy a new computer and it doesn't run out of the box, return it for another--you've probably been the victim of a bad statistical pocket. (I think Hayne and Yellow would back me up on this one, but stranger things have happened!)

And, of course, once in a while there IS a real issue that's widespread. Just remember that just because someone SAYS an absolute like "there is a problem Apple needs to recognize" (paraphrased), and there are Apple Discussions threads that one can point to, this does not mean there is actually a widespread issue that anyone needs to fix. Apple Discussions is famous for users populating the boards with bad troubleshooting, unsubstantiated claims, and sensationalist exaggeration. Anyone who's spent any time in tech support can attest to this.

Advice: There's a lot of good information in this thread--advice about disabling third-party software (cough, Unsanity's stuff) and removing third-party devices and peripherals (the PCI card installed by TekServe, which is argubaly one of the best Mac shops in the country). Follow it! Strip down your system; attempt reinstalls (big emphasis here) IF WARRANTED; and when all else fails, give that call to AppleCare.

And definitely listen to the old-timers here--they've done this all before.

:-)

I've done 7 machines the same way with no problems other than scripts added to mail programs...

Cannot Shut Down from Desktop
 

Thanks for your feedback but I still cannot Shut Down from the Desktop.

In iCal I deleted the alarms/events and removed the preference file. I also deleted Unsanity's APE.

I don't know where tro look to find out about any issue with "authentication service".

Agreed. It was only my cure, in this one instance. And I might not have had to go that far. But such is the path of troubleshooting. And with computers, and my current knowledge base, I needed to just get up and running, and not try to isolate the exact problem.

Really, it's all voodoo to me. My most current voodoo is every morning, when I restart my Mac, there's no Internet connection. The fix? Unplug my router (for 20 seconds. 10 doesn't work, I tried), and all is well.

Tried upgrading the firmware on your router? Are you running a specialized/customized packet filter (on the Mac) that might be filtering your DHCP address?

Then you should not go around telling users who might listen that (paraphrased) "Tiger is glitchy and you can't migrate any of your stuff at all."

18spheres:

The next time you're about to shut down from the Desktop, quit all programs you can see running in the Dock and open Terminal (located in /Applications/Utilities). Type the following command exactly as shown:

Press return after you've verified that this matches exactly in the Terminal window. You will see a new file on the Desktop called "ps_output.txt". Feel free to look at it, but do not alter it. (It's a harmless text file, but we're gonna want to see it.)

You won't get any confirmation that anything happened in the Terminal window, so after you see the new file on the Desktop, click on the Apple Menu and click on "Shut Down...". If the computer fails to shut down, and I'm going to assume that it will, come back here afterwards and copy/paste the contents of the ps_output.txt file here so we can take a look at what's still running in the background right before you (try to) shut down.

That's quite a "paraphrase", Mikey.

What I described worked for me. Note the "worked for me" section of that sentence, Mikey. What most people throughout this forum, and I'd bet throughout the Internet and world at large, are describing what has worked for them, be it Mac computers, routers, gardening, child rearing, repairing the starter on their pickup, etc. In a few cases, those people sharing what has "worked for them" (again, don't paraphrase that!) are not experts. They're people trying to get through life, and help others along the way.

Cannpt Shut Down from Desktop
 

[QUOTE] The next time you're about to shut down from the Desktop, quit all programs you can see running in the Dock and open Terminal (located in /Applications/Utilities). Type the following command exactly as shown:

*******

Thanks so much for your help with this. Here it is.

USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TT STAT STARTED TIME COMMAND
robertbl 93 7.2 5.7 676376 29632 ?? S 7:32PM 0:28.72 Finder
robertbl 147 0.6 1.1 622408 5684 ?? S 7:33PM 2:32.50 Palm Deskt
robertbl 85 0.0 0.3 55532 1664 ?? Ss 7:32PM 0:01.08 pbs
robertbl 90 0.0 1.0 118588 5500 ?? S 7:32PM 0:04.53 Dock
robertbl 91 0.0 0.2 27924 1056 ?? S 7:32PM 0:00.57 aped
robertbl 92 0.0 1.1 114808 6008 ?? S 7:32PM 0:05.31 SystemUISe
robertbl 142 0.0 2.1 638612 11108 ?? S 7:33PM 0:02.13 StuffItAVR
robertbl 143 0.0 0.9 619348 4664 ?? S 7:33PM 0:00.20 Microsoft
robertbl 144 0.0 1.3 623708 7028 ?? S 7:33PM 0:00.58 iCalAlarmS
robertbl 148 0.0 1.2 623560 6448 ?? S 7:33PM 0:00.46 Transport
robertbl 149 0.0 1.6 624380 8456 ?? S 7:33PM 0:02.62 System Eve
robertbl 150 0.0 2.3 635280 12320 ?? S 7:33PM 0:00.74 SymQuickMe
robertbl 152 0.0 0.7 619176 3680 ?? S 7:33PM 0:00.17 SymSeconda
robertbl 153 0.0 0.7 619240 3672 ?? S 7:33PM 0:00.18 ScanNotifi
robertbl 164 0.0 0.6 104932 3312 ?? S 7:33PM 0:46.99 UniversalA
robertbl 285 0.0 3.3 632116 17256 ?? S 8:35PM 0:02.95 DashboardC
robertbl 286 0.0 3.5 633624 18440 ?? S 8:35PM 0:01.39 DashboardC
robertbl 287 0.0 3.9 634292 20424 ?? S 8:35PM 0:03.58 DashboardC
robertbl 328 0.0 0.9 50872 4904 ?? SNs 8:48AM 0:01.22 mdimportse
robertbl 414 0.0 0.8 38044 4080 ?? S 9:06AM 0:00.09 AppleSpell
robertbl 419 0.0 3.0 639076 15576 ?? S 9:10AM 0:00.80 Terminal
robertbl 72 0.0 0.5 59312 2604 ?? Ss 7:32PM 0:07.63 ATSServer
robertbl 422 0.0 0.2 27800 816 p1 S 9:10AM 0:00.03 -bash
robertbl 74 0.0 1.1 98444 5872 ?? Ss 7:32PM 0:02.62 loginwindo

I'm happy to quote it verbatim:

"You nailed it. Tiger's main glitch is that it needs a clean slate on which to rest. Nothing can be pulled over that has Panther written on it, except ones documents, images, music, and the like. No porting over applications, User accounts, settings, preferences, printer setups, NOTHING. You gotta reinstall every single thing."

How was my paraphrase inaccurate?

18spheres:

You may want to disable this stuff and try again:

Palm is typically pretty keep-to-itself; benign. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem first and foremost, but anything's possible.

Unsanity should come nowhere near your HD. Ever.

StuffIt's only getting worse as the years go by. This SHOULD be benign, but you never know. I'd test with StuffIt gone.

I neglected to tell you to expand your Terminal window. Sorry. This looks like the Microsoft Database Daemon process. It's for the Office Notifications engine. I've never seen this screw me up, but I'd probably disable Office Notifications during testing.

I'll explain why I don't think it's iCalAlarmScheduler.

I don't know what this process is. Again, I neglected to tell you to expand the Terminal window, and the rest of the name of the process name was likely cut off.

Norton/Symantec products. The bane of tech support existence. Honestly, unless your IT department or school requires them, I'd consider chucking them.

DEEP BREATH NOW SO I DON'T PASS OUT FROM THAT.

Okay:

FSResolveAliasWithMountFlags

This is a Carbon function that deprecated a couple of different alias manager functions. If this is the error that's holding you up from shutting down, the program that's pissing off your computer is a Carbon app. iCalAlarmScheduler is not Carbon, as far as I know. My first thought is the Symantec stuff. I'm not sure what the Transport process is, but I always recommend people dump APE anyway, so I'll toss that coin into the hat.

Create a brand new user. Run the same Terminal command (px -uxc) with a BIG Terminal window and let us know what you see.

Previous posts of 18spheres' system.log have shown that during shutdown the process 'iCalAlarmScheduler' (iCAS) is refusing to accept AppleEvents (including quit) and therefore shutdown is stopped.

There is every possibility that APE is the reason why events are not reaching this process, and APE should be disabled.

After disabling it and finding the problem still exists then 18spheres should check to see if the above process is 'not responding' prior to logout/shutdown. I see that iCAS runs in 1 hour cycles so it would be a good idea to have at least 1 hour of uptime before trying this. If iCAS is shown as not responding in Activity Monitor, it should be force quit - and then a shutdown tried. If shutdown works, we've at least identified the correct process that is causing the problem and can proceed from there.

Yeah, I'm just not quite convinced iCAS is the actual culprit, but because of the system log analysis earlier, I made sure to include it in the ps rundown with an explanation why I thought that. I wouldn't be shocked if APE is stopping events from hitting iCAS or simply not allowing received events from completing.

I wonder how the new user experiment will go. (I didn't notice Spheres having done this, so if I've missed that, I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time!)

Cannot Shut Down from Desktop
 

Just to remind you that this problem only happened when I installed Tiger.

I created another account and logged in. I then created a text box (ps_output.txt) and tried to Shut Down from the Desktop.

I see the line that has aped at the end. Please tell me how I can get rid of this thing called 'aped'?

The following is what was inputted into the text box.


USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TT STAT STARTED TIME COMMAND
robertb 297 0.8 3.2 641240 16776 ?? S 7:44PM 0:01.64 Terminal
robertb 274 0.6 2.2 124648 11784 ?? S 7:43PM 0:04.33 Finder
robertb 300 0.5 0.2 27800 824 p1 S 7:44PM 0:00.03 -bash
robertb 271 0.0 0.6 82724 3204 ?? S 7:43PM 0:00.58 Dock
robertb 272 0.0 0.2 27924 1132 ?? S 7:43PM 0:00.11 aped
robertb 273 0.0 1.1 112660 5536 ?? S 7:43PM 0:01.42 SystemUIServer
robertb 281 0.0 0.6 40344 2912 ?? SNs 7:43PM 0:00.82 mdimportserver
robertb 282 0.0 1.9 614068 10124 ?? S 7:43PM 0:00.41 SymQuickMenu
robertb 284 0.0 0.7 593452 3796 ?? S 7:43PM 0:00.14 SymSecondaryLaunch
robertb 285 0.0 0.7 593516 3832 ?? S 7:43PM 0:00.15 ScanNotification
robertb 75 0.0 0.5 50068 2700 ?? Ss 7:39PM 0:02.16 ATSServer
robertb 303 0.0 1.8 39392 9184 ?? Ss 7:44PM 0:01.69 SyncServer
robertb 254 0.0 0.8 85088 4076 ?? Ss 7:43PM 0:00.80 loginwindow
robertb 266 0.0 0.4 55532 1928 ?? Ss 7:43PM 0:00.84 pbs

Only in your rude response.

Look, forget it. People skills are not teachable in a thread. You're helping the guy out, and that's the purpose of this thread..

You can disable APE by using the disable option on the APE Preference Pane in System Preferences.

You've not said whether your shutdown was unsuccessful or not.

There is no APE Preference Pane in System Preferences in both accounts. No I still cannot Shut Down from the Desktop.

Thanks for all your help with this. If this cannot be fixed I'll take it to TekServe in NYC.

What's probably happened is that you have deleted the prefpane in the past, but not the code it controlled.

What you need to do is reinstall APE. Here is a link: http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/ape

Once you've installed it, you can use the uninstaller that comes with the package to get APE off your system, or use the prefpane to disable it.