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-   -   Morality and Installing Tiger...? (http://hintsforums.macworld.com/showthread.php?t=39802)

nkuvu 06-24-2005 02:01 PM

I'm still wondering about the physical counterparts of this type of argument.

If you only need a truck once in a while, do you (try to) take it from the sales lot and return it when you're done? Do you taste your food in the supermarket before you pay for it? How is this different from software occasional or pre-use?

The rationalizations around software continue to baffle me.

voldenuit 06-24-2005 02:44 PM

Both sides have made their points and it is finally up to everyones own conscience to deal with the question.

However, like arctic stones said, there are cases when you get files in strange proprietary formats that nothing but an expensive app you don't otherwise need can open correctly.

And you may diplomatically not be in the position to mail back something along the lines "send me your stuff in a format I can use".

That is indeed a case where one would be embarassed to come up with a clear-cut yes or no.

After all, unlike a truck, all the bits you use do not deprive anybody from anything. It's just you not paying something you're legally required to without seeing a compelling reason to do so.

hayne 06-24-2005 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voldenuit
After all, unlike a truck, all the bits you use do not deprive anybody from anything. It's just you not paying something you're legally required to without seeing a compelling reason to do so.

[hypothetical]
It's only very occasionally that I need to send something by courier.
And all the courier companies in my (hypothetical) area refuse to deal with one-off deliveries - they want me to pay a huge up-front fee for a flat-rate service. That's not worth it for the few times a year that I need to use a courier.
But I've figured out a way to forge one of their special envelopes and drop it into their delivery box for those few times when I need to send something to a client. I don't feel bad about this because it's not really costing them anything - their trucks are going to be running anyway and they're never full.
[/hypothetical]

ArcticStones 06-24-2005 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil St. Romain
Just curious as to what kind of files you need to open with Photoshop that you can't open with Graphic Converter? And what kind of non-professional needs to be opening files created by Quark XPress?

Quark: On a couple of occasions I’ve had customers send me page proofs as Quark files, because they’ve forgotten to convert them to PDF. That is professional, but I only use Quark to open the darned file. Call it a safety valve. (Last time: two years ago)
By the way, the first time this happened, that same customer sent me urgent files and went away. That’s when I installed a pirate copy of Quark.

PhotoShop: On rare occasions I receive photos to peruse that don’t open in Preview, my preferred viewing program. (Don’t know Graphic Converter.) Again, a safety valve. (Last time: five or six months ago)

Strictly speaking, I’m sure I could find an alternative workaround and remove these two applications.

-- ArcticStones

ArcticStones 06-24-2005 07:00 PM

Yep, I eat certain foods before paying for them
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nkuvu
Do you taste your food in the supermarket before you pay for it?

Well, I have to confess that I never purchase grapes in the supermarket without having tasted them.

;)

ArcticStones 06-24-2005 07:14 PM

"Silence is a Commons"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by styrafome
"Free" resources always have hidden community costs which only become apparent when people take as much as they can.

I would like to recommend a brilliant essay that was written many years ago: "Silence is a Commons" by Ivan Illich.

His point is that Silence is our common property. He compares it to a village square where markets are held, entertainers perform, music played, speaches are held. The village square is a "commons".
(Definition: "land or resources belonging to or affecting the whole of a community" -- according to Oxford American Dictionaries, which accompanies Tiger.)

The problem is that Silence is eaten up by thoughtless advertising, and by many other types of static. As a result, we are overwhelmed. Every day, you and I, and the average modern person, are exposed to several thousand messages -- trying to influence, sell or manipulate.

Ivan Illich deeply considered point, is that this encroachment on "the Commons of Silence" is making communication increasingly difficult, and much of the time, in fact, impossible.

As a result our culture and quality of life suffers.
Well, so I agree with Styrafome -- although this may seem an unusual example.

Read it! It’s a brilliant essay.


With best regards,
ArcticStones

hayne 06-24-2005 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticStones
Don’t know Graphic Converter

Well you should: http://www.lemkesoft.de/en/graphcon.htm
It is the one program that will import and export almost all formats in common use for image files.

voldenuit 06-24-2005 07:20 PM

Quote:

Well, I have to confess that I never purchase grapes in the supermarket without having tasted them.
In France, where culinary questions are a lot more important than they might be elsewhere, there is even a law explictly stating that there shall be no sale of goods usually tasted if the buyer has not been able to assure himself of the quality:

Quote:

"à l'égard du vin et de l'huile , et des autres choses que l'on est dans l'usage de goûter avant d'en faire achat, il n'y a point de vente tant que l'acheteur ne les a pas goûter et agréés"

Code Civil - Art 158
So Arctic Stones just happens to live in the wrong country ;) .

It's pretty amazing how wildly the socially acceptable can vary even in western democracies.

ArcticStones 06-25-2005 02:41 AM

Re: GraphicConverter
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hayne
Well you should: http://www.lemkesoft.de/en/graphcon.htm
It is the one program that will import and export almost all formats in common use for image files.

Thanks, Hayne. What do you know; I already got it on my computer! The information window says it’s registered to Apple Bundle Customers. Must have come with my PowerBook when I purchased it in April 2003.

It’s Carbon version 4.5.2. Seems version 5.6.2 is available from their Web site. Do you know the main difference between the versions? Should I definitely upgrade?

hayne 06-25-2005 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticStones
It’s Carbon version 4.5.2. Seems version 5.6.2 is available from their Web site. Do you know the main difference between the versions? Should I definitely upgrade?

I can't remember the differences but there is a detailed "history" of the program on the lemkesoft web site that lists all the changes in each version.
When version 5 came out, I kept with version 4 for a while since I needed to pay to upgrade to the new version (I had had version 4 and perhaps even version 3 registered since my OS 9 days) and there was some reason why I decided to upgrade - maybe some feature I wanted or maybe just to support the developer who is one of the most energetic and productive individuals in the shareware market. He just keeps on improving it!

ArcticStones 06-25-2005 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayne
...there was some reason why I decided to upgrade - maybe some feature I wanted or maybe just to support the developer who is one of the most energetic and productive individuals in the shareware market. He just keeps on improving it!

Just read all the Customer Statements and the list of awards. Impressive! I think I’ll upgrade it very soon -- and look to see if I can find som sort of User Manual or Help function on this software.

Thanks again!

NovaScotian 06-25-2005 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticStones
Just read all the Customer Statements and the list of awards. Impressive! I think I’ll upgrade it very soon -- and look to see if I can find som sort of User Manual or Help function on this software.

There's a downloadable e-manual (PDF) by Hagen Henke (in several languages) that I found quite good - very good examples. ($10US paid to Kagi for the unlock code).

macmath 06-25-2005 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayne
When version 5 came out, I kept with version 4 for a while since I needed to pay to upgrade to the new version (I had had version 4 and perhaps even version 3 registered since my OS 9 days) and there was some reason why I decided to upgrade - maybe some feature I wanted or maybe just to support the developer who is one of the most energetic and productive individuals in the shareware market. He just keeps on improving it!

Naturally, I can't speak to why you upgraded, but I did to trim PDFs. When OS X creates a PDF file, it creates a whole page. But to include the PDFs into TeX documents, I just want one about the size of the diagram I am inputting into the document. I asked him for the ability to trim those PDFs and save the resulting file, and it appeared within a month or two. I can't say enough positive things about his responsiveness or about the application.

NovaScotian 06-25-2005 11:31 AM

The only thing I miss in version 5 (that may be there undiscovered) is the ability to scale to a pixel count (which I used to do all the time).

dr_avalanche 07-29-2005 10:30 AM

Ouch. Just asked a similar question and got the thread locked. OK, i legally own 2 current OS's. Panther and tiger. I'm not using tiger. Does that mean i can use Panther twice? :p

yellow 07-29-2005 10:34 AM

No. That's not legal. Legally you can use Panther once and Tiger once. Read the End User License Agreement.


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