Installing OS X.3 on tray iMac
 

Ok this is making me feel dumb, because I know x86 bases backwards and forwards (dealt with linux, windows, and bsd), but the whole mac deal has me confused. Just yesterday an older woman gave me her iMac (333Mhz, 96MB, seems to be new 80GB HDD) because she wanted a pc. It has OS 9.2 installed, but I really love the interface (and BSD nature) of OS X. Luckily she also had a copy of OS X that she never bother with. Is it possible to install OS X on this machine, seeing as it only has 96 MB of ram? If not, do the iMacs take soDIMMs as I have heard about? Will pc laptop style soDIMMs work? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Addition: I forgot to add that I tried booting from the panther cd and I get a kernel panic (reminds me of low mem in linux).
--Brent

Your iMac will work with Non-parity CL=2 PC-66/100/133 SDRAM. Yes, the same kind as works in PCs. Just don't use generic RAM. Macs are very picky about the quality. You can install as much as 512MB (2 256MB DIMMs).

Your iMac should have no problem with OS X. Perhaps the CD has a fingerprint? What version of OS X do you have?

The iMac 333 MHz tray-loading iMac G3 takes PC100 SO-DIMMs (3.3V, unbuffered, 64-bit, 144-pin, 100 MHz or faster, 10ns). More information

Exactly what does it say on the face of the copy of OS X that she never bothered with? I suspect that is probably OS X 10.0.x or 10.1.x. You would be well served buying at least OS X 10.2.x or even better 10.3.x. The old versions of OS X, especially previous to 10.0.4, are not very stable and don't feel finished. Not all versions of OS X are the same.

Also, getting OS X installed on that computer has some caveats. First, make absolutely sure that the firmware is updated before installing OS X. This should be in the "Read me before you install" file. Don't skip this step.

96 MB, as you have surmised, is inadequate to install OS X. At a bare bare minimum, you need 128 MB, and that will not be a very pleasant experience. Buy at least 256 MB of memory, and preferably 384 MB.

Also, due to a shortcoming in the IDE/ATA of this particular iMac, you need to partition the 80 GB drive so that the first 8 GB partition has a bootable system of OS X on it.

Trevor

Don't feel dumb, it's a different world on the Mac, requires different knowledge. I looked this up in MacTracker and in theory you should be able to install any version of OS X on an old tray loading iMac.

96 MB of RAM, however, is a lot less than what is recommended. MacTracker says the early iMacs take PC66 144 pin SO-DIMMs. It's not much fun adding RAM to one of those machines, look around on the web for an illustrated guide, it will help a lot.

I'm not certain why you got the kernal panic. It could be low RAM or bad RAM I guess, but I've seen OS X running on a machine with less RAM than that. It wasn't a pretty sight, but I did see it and somebody must have installed it somehow.

MacTracker, by the way, is a program with stats on all sorts of Macs. It is available for OS 9 as well as X.

http://www.mactracker.ca/

wow, two posts came in while I was working on that. Perhaps the need for a firmware update caused the kernal panic. Good luck and welcome to Mac.

The iMac 333 MHz will work with SO-DIMMs, not DIMMs. There is a difference between SO-DIMMs and DIMMs.

1. generic RAM usually works perfectly in this particular Mac. I have found the iMac G3s to be very unpicky about memory brand. Other Macs are indeed picky about memory, but not the iMac G3s.
2. Be very careful about the SO-DIMMs that you purchase. As mentioned in the link in my above posting, the top DIMM socket accepts a 2" SO-DIMM, but the bottom socket accepts only a 1.5" SO-DIMM. The taller SO-DIMM simply won't fit in the bottom socket.

The iMac will have a big problem with OS X if it hasn't had it's firmware updated. And more memory is required.

Trevor

You're right, of course! Brain cramp! :)

Yep! Forgot about that! The firmware update is available in the CD Extras folder of the OS 9 CD as well as from Apple's Software Page.

Misc stuff
 

The OS X cds provided to me by her are OS 10.3 (yes I know, very new, but apparently her late husband was the computer person and was planning to upgrade). When I try to run the installer, it hangs with both text ending with kernel panic and a graphic in the background saying "Hold power button, blah blah". The cd appears to be fine but I will try again. On the issue of ram, I have found some at memmoryx.net, but is 512 overkill for such an old machine, would just 256 be OK? Again, any info would be helpful.

Thanks,
Brent

You won't be able to use a single 512MB chip. The 333 iMac can be upgraded to a MAXIMUM of 512MB, and that's with 2x256 MB chips. Be prepared to experience some chips that may not work in the iMac. It's not that sensitive, as others have also said, but be sure to have a compatibility warrantee with whatever you decide to purchase. The PC66 memory bus will not always 'like' every PC-133 chip that you throw in it.

As to the quantity of memory...

128 is pretty much unusable. I am play with PearPC with 128 allocated right now, and running a single app just about kills it.

256 is usable but only if you run just a couple apps at a time. I used a 12" PowerBook with that much memory for a while just to try, and it is usable but limited.

384 is actually pretty decent, but also light use. My iMac 400 has that much memory. Not too bad.

512 is plenty for most people, especially considering the other limitations of that machine anyway.

Good news (and a big question)
 

Well I got OS X to the point where I can install it, and one of you was right in saying something like fingerprints clouding the disc. I took some alcohol (a trick I learned as a PC tech) to the bottom and wiped, and bam, it works. Now apparently all I have to do is partition the HDD to get OS X to first 8 GB. Question is, how do I partition the drive? If its the way I'm assuming it has to be done, do I lose OS 9? Is there a way to archive that partition and reinstall it after OS X is up? Additionally I'll order some ram this weekend. Thanks for all your help.

With 10.3, you can install OS 9 and 10 on the same partition. It doesn't really matter the order you install them. To partition the drive, it's best to do so from the OS X CD. Select "Run Disk Utility" from the Install menu. Select the hard drive and Partition tab. Set the pop up menu to "2 Partitions," set the first to 8100MB and then drag the base of the 2nd partition's graphic to the bottom. It doesn't matter what you name them, just give them names that you understand which is which.

Once the partitions are created you can quit out of Disk Utility to get back to the installer. Go ahead and install OS X first. Once you've got X up and running to your satisfactions, you can boot the OS 9 CD and install it.

Your best bet is to backup your OS 9 install to some other medium first, then erase the hard drive, partition it with your Panther Install CD. Install OS X on the first partition, and restore from your backup onto the "rest of the drive" partition. The partitions should probably be as follows (although you could further divide the "rest of the drive" area if you really wanted):

First 8 GB: OS X
The rest of the drive: OS 9 and anything else.

The iMac 333 MHz is the last of the iMacs with the dumb 8GB first-partition limitation. More information here.

Note that there is a Mac utility similar to Partition Magic right now which will let you re-partition on the fly. However, I think you are better off backing up OS 9 to another medium and erasing the drive to partition. Other people's opinions may differ.

Trevor

Ugghh
 

Thanks Las Vegas, you gave me the answer I needed, but wasn't hoping for. Reason being I dont have the original OS 9 cds, but I should be fine. Thanks again for all your help.

about the ram. in the 333 model apple only specifies that 256mb is the max. I have used generic ram in the several i have added ram to without a problem. I have heard of using 512mb in the computer (2 x 256mb modules), but i have not had very good luck with getting that to work the few times i have tried with both high end ram and generic ram. I have been told it is because it has to do with whether the ram is in a single bank or dual bank configuration on the chip. I have also installed and run panther and jaguar on 96mb of ram. it works, but when i got around to upgrading the ram to even only 128mb, I was amazed at how much of a speed increase there was. It felt like it was more noticable by going to 128mb then it was when i went from 128 to 256 in them, but of course the 256mb was the fastest.

<$.02>

You can install 512 in that machine, but the lower slot requires a low profile 256MB DIMM (hard to find).

iMac G3 333MHz tray loading firmware 1.2 problem when installing OS X
 

I'm trying to install OS X 10.3 on the following machine:

iMac PowerPC G3
333MHz
6GB hard drive
160MB of RAM
Tray loading CD-ROM drive

I've read several forums on this subject and have followed what has been written.

However when I try to boot up form the CD 'Mac OS X 10.3 Install Disc 1' it only gets as far as a grey screen with a darker grey Apple logo in the centre and the circular loading animation below. It just sits on this screen indefinitely. After 30 mins or so it stops accessing the CD and thats it!

Before attempting to install OS X I did all of the following:

1) Formatted the hard drive 'Mac OS Extended (HFS+).
2) Installed Mac OS 9.1 from an installation CD I have.
3) Upgraded to Mac OS 9.2.1 using a downloaded Update.
4) Upgraded to Mac OS 9.2.2 using a downloaded Update.
5) Tried to update the firmware to 1.2 using this update http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60384

However the firmware update doesn't install and I'm presented with this message:

'The iMac Firmware Updater does not reognize the firmware on your iMac and cannot perform an update.

It's possible that have a newer firmware version.'

The Apple System Profiler says this about the iMac installed firmware:

ROM revision: $77D.45F6
Boot ROM version: 3.0.f3
Mac OS ROM file version: 8.7

Any help or advice with this will be most appreciated.

Regards,

Matthew

Hi Matthew! Your Boot rom version (3.0.f3) is up-to-date, which would explain why that will not update.
I have had problems with booting to the Panther CD before. Make sure that the only external device is an Apple keyboard, with the mouse plugged into the keyboard.
Try wiping the surface of the CD carefully with a soft, dry cloth.
Try carefully cleaning the CD tray lens with a cotton swab damp with iso-alchohol. You can see that small lens when the tray is open, and no disk.

Thanks everyone for your help.

I finally got OS X installed! The solution, as this might help others, was to use ORIGINAL install discs and not the backup on CD-Rs that I was trying in the beginning. I guess the tray loading iMac drive being old was having difficulty reading from the CD-R.

imac 333 10.3.9
 

okay i have an imac 333 tray loading running 9.2.2 and macos 10.1.5. i wish to install 10.3 but it won't upgrade. i've checked the firmware upgrade which is 3.0 and all seems to be okay. when i put the 10.3 cd in the drive it goes straight to a grey screen saying apple firmware ok. i then type boot-cd and nothing happens. can someone help please. as i only want to set up this machine purely for email and web.:confused:

Exactly what does it say on the 10.3 CD? Is it marked for another computer? If so, that won't work.

Trevor

trevor basically what happens is that i insert the cd. hit restart as instructed and then it goes to a grey screen which looks like dos on a PC. the message just reads apple firmware 3.0 and then foloows to another line saying ok. i've tried by typing in boot-cd which takes a while. and the next reply is LOAD LIMIT. thats all. i should also let you know that the imac is running 256mb and it only has 6gig. hope you can help.

the cd just says mac osx install 10.3. it'd from another imac i have which was given to me by a friend. the cd worked fine on that imac but not the 333. cheers

What happens if you shut the iMac off, insert the CD in the drive, then restart while holding the letter C ?

If you get the same response, then you may have a poor quality CD disk, or the internal CD drive is not reading CDs properly.

You can try burning a copy of that installer CD, and trying to boot with that copy.

yeah tried that and to no go. i'm justing wondering if maybe i don't have enough room. need to up the HD from 6 gig to ??. but even so i read the forums and people have it running on 190 ram and the same HD space. :(

The space available on your hard drive would not prevent you from booting to the installer CD. A faulty CD, either the installer disk, or the CD drive itself, could be the problem. I vote for the CD drive, you can try gently wiping the laser lens on the drive tray.
Try booting to that installer CD again.
At the Open firmware screen (the text screen that you boot to), type reset-nvram, then press enter. You should get an OK as a response.
Then type reset-all, and press enter.
Your Mac should reboot, so hold the letter C, and see if there is a different response this time.

If this iMac doesn't boot to the CD, by far the simplest way to proceed is to open 'er up, and remove the hard drive. Install in an external FireWire case, and install your OS X while the drive is connected to a different Mac (with a FireWire port, of course, and has to be a PPC Mac)... But, I have access to all this stuff.
Once the operating system is installed, transplant the hard drive into the old iMac, and you should be good to go! Simple!

delta mac... what can i say... one happy old mac lives another day. correct cd tray lens was filthy. just gave it a quick clean andf waa-laa. presto. thanks again. :) :)