Well its a consumer computer, designed for people who wont be interested in processor upgrades.

I know plenty of people whod be interested in it and I know very few people who go so far as processor upgrades .. or indeed any upgrades apart from RAM.

You have nearly an infinite number of options as a consumer. One of them is purchasing a Mac mini. Nearly infinity minus one is still nearly infinity. :rolleyes:

Yes, I realize my choices... I was only wishing aloud. Not knocking apple or the mini or anyone posting here. I have an opinion... I wish there were more options with the processor. :cool:

Maybe this will shed some light on the subject....

I talked to one of the Apple reps (at Macworld SF) about the lack of upgradability for the mini. His response was simple: the mini is targeted at the same market as bookshelf stereos. Someone who buys one of these stereos isn't going to mod it themselves. If it breaks, they'll take the whole thing in for repair, if something newer and better comes out (and they can justify the upgrade) they'll simply replace the unit. This is why the Keyboard, Mouse and Display are not incuded with the mini. You simply swap out your mini for a new mini and the rest of your system stays constant.

I'm not sure if I agree with him or not... but that's the Apple approved answer.

I would rather open it up and upgrade the chip and guts on my own/ voiding the warranty or not... But at least it is an option in the right direction. A trade-in upgrade is better than nothing. Another notch on the plus side.

I agree with Xd, it would be NICE if you could replace the processor. We know you can't, but would like it if we could. Even with it's limitations on upgrades it has something the iMac and eMac lack, choice of monitor. I read somewhere on here that if the processor fries you have to replace the entire board. True, but I have a couple of Performa 400s that are still in use and have the processor on the mobo. I've had no hardware problems with them, and I trust the mini's will perform as well (they better, I bought 3 of them!) As for logic boards sliding out, the 5xx and 5xxx series did this. In fact it was the easy way to upgrade your 5xx to a PPC. As far as processor upgrades for the mini, there is potential. If you don't have any wireless options installed there's an extra slot open... Not saying it's possible or probably, but hey look at when the 7200 wasn't upgradable, welcome the upgrade via PCI, or the 5xxxx series, welcome the L2 upgrade. Who knows maybe we'll see a G4 2Ghz upgrade via the RAM slot, hmmm. doubles as 1 gig of RAM. Might be possible, who knows. (P.S. I know the bus speed is only 167 Mhz so how would you get 2Ghz through there? Don't ask me, I just come up with ideas, I don't make 'em work, always)

The problem with replacing the processor is that the current processor (on any system these days) is already far faster than the mother board. Putting in an even faster processor isn't going to make a big enough improvement. Since we're wishing here, it would be nice if you could keep the processor and upgrade the mother board...
:D
Of course, if you're doing that, you might as well get the new processor too. A new, larger hard drive and a better display card would also be good.

Hmm, sounds like a whole new system, doesn't it? Might as well throw in the new case and call it a day.

Which is why I came up with the Component Rack System idea.

What a joy it would be to swap motherboards, video cards and I/O modules without having to be a hardware genius!

Nice idea, but how do you implement it? The difference is that computer improvements involve increasing bus speeds, bandwidths and other interconnects. For example, increasing processor speed and RAM speed won't help much if the path between them is slow and narrow.

These issues don't occur to nearly the same degree with MIDI, because timing down to the nanosecond or even millisecond isn't as big an issue with music.

That is a good question, my only answer to that would be to combine the processor and RAM drawer. Pull out the drawer and the RAM modules are easily accessible at the top. If you want to replace the entire processor unit, you can slide the drawer out and replace it with the new. You would probably have to put speedier RAM in as well unless you did a cross upgrade to a dual processor unit. That should work, right? The rest can be plug-and-play power, Firewire and USB2 connections.

What about the video card? It needs a fast path to the processor too. Adding that into the same drawer pretty much leaves you with a drive-less Mini.

The connection of the video card is PCI based. All the really fast stuff is done in the card itself (ie rendering). The drawer is basically like adding a new card to a tower. I'll admit, the memory should be tied close to the CPU, but anything that can be dropped onto a PCI slot can get away with a drawer system such as the Ethernet, sound and I/O devices.

I suppose that could work in a limited range, but even PCI has seen upgrades.

As long as the components keep improving, the communication between them needs to improve just to keep up. That makes it difficult to design a system that can be upgraded significantly by swapping parts. The closest we have to that is Firewire and USB 2.0, but even they aren't fast enough for the future.

Don't spend your royalities yet... Ever heard of VME? Well, these days, CompactPCI? Not a bad idea, but it's been done...

Apple's really after the CPU replacement market for PCs. An EXTREMELY small percentage of PC users actually install replacement PCI cards, let alone those that upgrade the motherboard. They replace boxes. After all, what does the case cost? $20?

That rarely happens due to standardization practices and shelf life. However, with the rack model, you can replace your actual rack with any new and improved version, yet your power supply will still work, your Ethernet will still work and so will your sound and I/O modules. The only thing the case contains is the multiple low-cavitating fans and the socket buss system. On the day they go from copper to optical buss connection, I agree, it will be time to change your rack case. ;)

There are already such a standard (among many), one known as Compact PCI. However, even in the server-rack world this approach is being replaced with stand-alone boxes (blade servers). Look at Apple XServe line. The level of chip integration is to the point where more and more functions are getting absorbed by the processor. First it was MMU, then L1 cache, then L2 cache, next PCI bridge, after that, networking and I/O. What do you need with separate sound and I/O modules today? You're talking about a $10 piece of PCB with a fifty-cent microcontroller.

The component rack analogy is quite accurate. It used to be the case that you had a separate tuner, amp, equalizer, multiplexer, deck, etc. and now you get all the same functionality in a home-theater-in-a-box. And that one box costs the same as any one of the boxes of the previous generation. Audiophiles still buy carefully tuned componets, but they are in the CompactPCI market, not the low-end market.

It's not a bad idea, just false economy. If you look at low-end PCs, everything is on the motherboard and if you ever tried to upgrade anything fancy like display card you'll almost always find it cheaper/easier to buy a new box.

Good points Slacker. However, the rack system would work great for varied specialized uses. One person would install an audio I/O for 16 channel input and output 48khz 16 bit sound for professional recording and mixing. Another would install a Dolby 6.1 sound module for a theater system. The new 9.1 system is out. Replace the entire computer? No, just slide in the new module. I don't care HOW inexpensive computers get, this is still less expensive way to upgrade. Why replace your entire computer system when the new DVD-HD drive comes out?

Yes, the Xserve and blade models are great, but I am looking at a prosumer and consumer level solution. Basically, something extremely easy for people to upgrade and modify on their own.

Basically, todays tower systems do exactly what this rack system does. The only difference is that it is a drawer system so that average users do not need to crack open the CPU box. Sure, it is not perfect, and shelf life may remain the same with advances in buss design, but hey, it has great merit as a design.

True, but how is this any more of an issue than it is on a regular box? If you have an old G4 sitting around and you upgrade the processor, you aren't upgrading the busses. Same thing on an X86 box. Upgrading your Celeron to a P4 is not going to improve bus speed. Just like adding more RAM to any computer is not going to add bus speed.

I think the advantage of Schneb's idea is that everything in the system is an FRU (field replaceable unit), not only that, but any idiot can do it themselves. It would also make adding additional drives and I/O really easy. Not to mention it leaves doors (er.. drawers) open for things we haven't even thought of yet. I think it's a great idea.

Absolutely spot-on, cameranerd. I sat back and thought of some sample third-party modules. It was great fun...

Powerbook and iPod docking slot.
48 channel 24-bit/192kHz analog XLR I/O professional audio.
MIDI sample modules (made especially for this purpose)
Audio Spectrum Analyzer
Telescope controller
Robotic arm (plays physical chess as default demo-just enter board size)
Advanced electronic analysis (oscilliscope in, oscillator out, multimeter etc.)
3x5, 4x6, 5x7 photo printer (slide in blank, photo slides out)
Carousel DVD reader or reader/writer with optional stacker.
Slide out, tilt up LCD monitor.
Slide out keyboard and mouse system.
Battery drawer for remote use (safari video editing)
Theater 9.1 audio system.
High-powered transmission unit for remote robotics.
88 key servo out for MIDI controled player pianos and orchestrons.
Computer controlled FM/AM tuner
X-10 Home automation system. (light & curtain control for home theater)
Multiple HD camera-in, monitor and control bay for live broadcast editing.
Wireless footswitch system for musicians with high-quality output audio.
3D scanner (with included turntable)

1/4" and XLR input/output panel
fiber optic NIC
battery charger (for thousands of types of batteries)
RAID array
Airport Base Station (think about the possibilities here)
Multimeter w/probes
diagnostic boards
digicard readers
VHS (heck, why not BETA?) player
Casette deck
legacy I/O board (ADB, Centronics, etc.)

...the list can go on and on.