Problems with SMB and Windows 2000 Server
 

Server: Windows 2000 Server SP4
Mac: Mac OS X (10.3.7)

This problem is being replicated in two different working environments.

I am connecting about 6 Macs to a Windows 2000 Server via SMB. I was originally working over AFP but decided to change to SMB for performance and reliability issues with AFP. Everyone I talk to seemed to suggest to change to SMB as it was faster and more reliable.

Our users use Quark, Photoshop and Illustrator. They work off the server in general as they swap jobs, and one person could be working on a job in the morning and someone else could be working on the same job in the afternoon. This never caused a problem when we connected via AFP but suddenly I am having some issues when connecting over SMB.

“User A” opens a file in Quark, makes a change, saves the file and quits Quark. If someone else then opens the file, makes a change and tries to save the file, it does not overwrite the original file. Instead it creates a QXP-04352345.qxp file (where the numbers are random).
“User A” opens a file in Photoshop or Illustrator, makes a change, saves the file and quits the Application. If someone else then opens the file, makes a change and tries to save the file, it says that the file is already in use.

These two errors are definitely linked and I have sort of found out why.

When we connect over SMB, on a Mac you cannot see these hidden ._filename.ext files. I can see them on the Server without any problem.
If I now go to the Server and look under Computer Management -> Shared Folders -> Open Files, I can see these ._filname.ext files open to “User 1”.
I have tried restarting his machine but as soon as he logs on again, the file is in use.
I have manually closed the ._ file from the server and it will then work.

During the day, people obviously work on quite a few files and this leaves a lot of these ._ files open (even overnight).
The only way that I can see to close all these files is when everyone shuts down overnight.

This is fine but doesn’t seem to sort my problem for people sharing files during the day.

Please don’t give me any information from Adobe or Quark that say they suggest working locally because it is not a Quark or Adobe problem. It is either a Server configuration issue or a Mac OSX SMB issue.

Has anyone come across this problem before and does anybody know a workaround?

If you need more information please let me know as I need to get this sorted asap.

Thanks

My suggestion: either go back to using AFP or install DAVE on your SMB client machines.

The Mac programs are creating resource forks (the "._filename.ext files") that unenhanced SMB sharing just doesn't know how to deal with. DAVE uses enhancements to the SMB protocol to overcome this. AFP supports it by nature.

Not trying to Hijack the Thread
 

I have been dealing with an issue off and on here at work that deals with the 2 protocols (AFP and SMB). I have 9 Mac G4's with OS 10.3.7 installed. Most all of them use Photoshop 7, Illustrator 10, and Freehand MX. They were all configured with one protocol or the other, but not all the same. As I have learned, when you create a file with the AFP protocol and store it to a Windows 2000 Server it can only be accessible from an AFP connection, and vice versa with the SMB protocol. I want to find a way to take all the files and make them work under one protocol (which I am not sure which one yet) and prevent the users from having to manage 2 connections depending on the file they are trying to access. If anyone knows anything about how to make them all accessible under one protocol please let me know. Also which protocol should I use and what is the best way to go about doing this. Thanks in advance to all who can help, and I hope I am not hijacking this thread, it just seemed too closely related to this thread to warrant creating a new one.

Nobody has any information to add to this, or any personal situations you have dealt with?

You definately need to use "one or the other".

Which one you choose I have found is a "preference". AFP seems slower than SMB in some respects but quicker in others. I have experienced a lot of machines with Quark, Photoshop and Illustrator crashing with afp while it doesn't seem to with smb.
This is one of the reasons I have switched to smb.

If you want to have "one" connection format. You will need to make sure you log on to the server in the appropriate way ie smb//192.168.1.1 and get the properties on every type of file ie .eps .jpg .tif .qxp etc and choose the application and click the Change All button. Once you have done this, bin the server and log back on. Try it and it should now work for all files.
I have found sometimes that when I first get information on one of the files and try to "Change All" it is greyed out. To get round this change the Application for one of the files, then do the same again and it should change ok.

I have however, found a fix for my problem regarding the Server keeping the ._ files open even though the files are closed.

It seems that with Windows Server 2003. The problems with smb keeping files open does not exist.

I am currently in the process of investigating upgrading the servers and think I will follow that route first.

what is bin?

He prbably means that you should eject or unmount the server from your computer and then connect back to it.

Sorry, bit of South East London terminology for "drag to the wastebasket"....

Sometimes I forget that people aren't from the same part of the world as me

:)

Photoshop just randomly crashes on some Mac's everyday. Can preferences being deleted fix this problem? All I know is that they connect using a SMAB connection and are using Photoshop 7 and then photoshop will crash and want to send an error report. Also Freehand MX is doing the same thing on the same computers. Anyone have any ideas?

why not use one of the macs as a server, in adition to its production duties, and forget the W2000 headache? unless you are sharing the files with windows users?

Don't use SMB with Quark
 

We run a Rampage RIP at work, and have a W2K Server. We were told by Rampage to NOT use SMB, they said Quark has issues with it. Instead we use AFP via IP (not the slower AppleTalk). it works great for us, and all the files we work on are on the server... nothing local at all. Part of the problem is that Quark still uses files with resource forks, the ._files, and Windows file system doesn't deal with them correctly. By using Services for Macintosh, and connecting via AFP you don't have these problems. Keep in mind that Win 2000's SFM doesn't do long file names, and we have been told that although Win 2004 Server does, don't use it.

We never see those temp files, but keep in mind that only one person can open a file at the same time.

As far as Quark files not being able to run off of a Windows server, this has been fixed with Quark 6.5.

This invisible ._file is a know issue with OSX connections to Windows Server 2000/2004 using SMB. This is caused by sessions to the Windows server not closing, leaving the Windows server to cache the file as being open. Apple is aware of this bug, but we will just have to wait and see if and when it is fixed.

Rebooting the Windows server will clear the cache, and report the files as being closed. It seems that over time, depending on how busy your server is, the problem gets worse, so it also seems to be a Windows caching problem, which is not anything new.

After upgrading to Windows 2003, I have found that the problem still persists.

This is strange as when I first tested Windows 2003 on a different Server, the problem did not occur.

I have now done some testing and found some strange results.

In OSX you have 3 folder views.
Icons (Left View)
List View - Single Pane (Middle View)
List View - Multiple Panes (Right View)

For some reason, if you use the Multiple Pane view, when you open files, make a change, save and then close them, the ._filename stays open.
If you use the Single List View and open a file, make a change, save and close it, the file closes correctly.

This has been confirmed by the following:
It seems that when I was doing my testing I always used the "Single Pane List View" to access the Server, whereas my other users always use the "Multiple Pane List View" and I have now got them to change to using the "Single Pane List View".

Can anyone tell me why?

I am in the process of trying to contact Apple about this as I see it as quite a major problem for me.

Thanks

The reason, I suspect, is because the Panel View supplies file info in the panel to the right of the selected file. If this file is one that Quicktime recognizes, a preview is opened in the info panel.

I have already contacted Apple concerning this problem and it currently has a bug number assigned to it. I have run a number of test for them with propriatary code, and of course have received no update from them as far as progress.

What they have assured me is that it deals with SMB sessions not closing as they should. If you have additional finding as far as background network processes, I believe that they might find this informative.

Hoppers I think your initial problem with QXP-122334232.qxp files is Quark related and not OSX and unfortunately it is random.

I run Quark 6.5 on OSX client on OS X Server10.3.7, quark files are opened from share points and saved on them to. Every now and then a saved file takes the guise of QXP-122334232.qxp and the real file does not have the changes saved.

This is due to the following reasons:
Auto back up path in Quark has been broken
Opening multiple files from the desktop (doubleclicking or shift selecting).
Running Nortons on a Windows server
Collect for output "save" generates a QXP

There are probably more reasons - haven't discovered them yet. Anyway Quark are aware but will not publish the bug - apparently it will be fixed in v7.

I can hear Indesign calling......

Has there been any progress on this topic?

We're experiencing the same problems with Quark 6.5 and SMB mounted drives from a Win2003 server.

- we do not run Norton
- we do not use Auto backup or auto save
- we don't use collect for output
- we're opening the files one at a time but double-clicking off the server

Viewing by list vs. preview has made no difference. Nor can I replicate the problem on every single Mac. Some have problems galore, others have no problems, no .QXP files.

However all suffer from files and folders "in use" long after the files have been closed. Preventing the files from being renamed, moved or deleted.

We've gone back to AFP but are sorely disappointed that the only thing holding us back from enjoying the speed boost of SMB is Quark.

"Work locally" is their one and only suggestion.

All I can report is that Apple engineers have been able to duplicate the problem. As far as a solution, nothing to report.

Duplicate with Quark files or other kinds of files?

I haven't seen this problem with any other program's files, just Quark.

Quark engineers has said to us they're going to fix it in Quark 7. We told them you better fix it before 7 and make a free fix!

our "by-pass" for this problem
 

one WIN 2003 Server
some Mac OS X 10.3.9 clients
_________________________

hi to all of you "brothers-in-pain",

since we have been suffering under the same prob for some time, we changed our way of working as follows:

- as long as no probs occur, we save files via keystroke "apple-s" ("save")

- when probs start, we switch to saving via keystroke "apple-alt-s" ("save as…") and use serially numbered file names (e.g. temp1, temp2, temp3…). (each time we save again, we create a new file name as well. curiously enough, the newly created file can be saved via simple "save"! when probs start again on this new doc, we then give another new name and so forth.)

- when work at one doc is done, we rename the last "temp"-file to a logical name: e.g. -lay2 (or whatever is approrpiate)

this not really smart, but it works for us as long as QUARK is not able to solve this issue nor APPLE does so via a OS update...

hope this helps others as well.

mats
germany

ps - we are as well working on a decent solution on this issue, but it needs resources, time as well as training-on-the-job experience. it's called "switch to InDesign"... ;-)

any news?
 

one WIN 2003 Server
some Mac OS X 10.3.9 clients
--------------------------------------

hi to all of you "brothers-in-pain",

since we have been suffering under the same prob for some time, I just wanted to know whether one of you has a work-around for this issue...

thanks for any assistence...

mats
germany

ps - we are as well working on a decent solution on this issue, but it needs resources, time as well as training-on-the-job experience. it's called "switch to InDesign"... ;-)

Hi! Trust me when I tell you, "I feel your pain"

We tried renaming the temp files too, but apparently our server is locking them somehow ... we get a message that says the file is "in use" and thus can't be deleted or renamed.

SMB and Tiger
 

Since switching to Tiger, we have not had any of the problems running off our Windows 2003 Server. However, we have not changed our socks since we noticed this, in fear of jinxing ourselves. I should not even be posting this statement, because the server pixies may find out what I have said and retaliate.

Networking with tiger and windows 2K
 

I know your pain as well.

I have 3 - G5s running tiger, an xserve running panther, 3 - G4s running panther and 2 windows 2K servers which we use to connect to our photographic machines

When using panther (using AFP) i can connect to them with no problem, I can create folders, delete folders, i can drag files in, replace the files once updated and delete the files.

But when using tiger I connect using SMB, I create folders, Drag files in.
I cant delete folders, files or update them via tiger it says "the operation cannot be completed because you do not have sufficient privileges for some of the items" it also adds in an extra file which you can see on the PC but not on the mac. _filename and the only way to delete them is to disconnect all the users and restart the server and then delete the files.

I would like to get this sorted, so i can upgrade all the other macs to tiger.

any suggestions would be helpful.

thanks.

tiger and pc networking
 

I have discovered a piece of software called PC MACLAN from computer associates.

http://ca.miramar.com/

this should fix any problems that your having.

Hi, we have been having the same problems on our network has anyone been able to find a working solution to this? Has the PC MACLAN software continued to work in the long run?

Thanks!

Hoppers,
Are you still there? It's been a few years since this thread began and there are several issues being tossed up so I hope I am not going back too far. Those ._filename files -- I get one for each MP3 file when I use my Windows format MP3 player on my MAC. Then the playback is all wacked out and has stall out issues. I delete all the ._filename files in Terminal. That allows it to play all the songs fine. Maybe you could use a script to do it but I do it one by one. Painful but effective.

Is there a fix for this issue yet? We are having the same problem with our Mac 10.3.9 clients connecting to a Windows 2003 server.

WoW I guess i will revive this thread....I have mac osx machines running 10.39 and quark 6.5 and using a windows 2000 file server. When we open a file on the server and go to save it, no matter what way, it disappears and leaves that temp QXP.#'S.QXP file, but that disappears also from the mac's view when clicked on. The files do get saved but has to be recopied to the server via a windows machine or the server itself. I need help, im sick of this quark issue.

Please try to not cross post rboklewski.. It just confuses the hell out of many people and also since you didn't state your original thread people would only ask the same things.

Has there been any concrete resolution to this problem?