ethernet hard drive
 

i'm planning to buy an external hard drive but i want it to be accessible from various computers at home, so i figure an ethernet one connected to the router is the best way. or am i wrong. could i also share a firewire HD? any tips on models based on personal experience?
thankee

Even an external hard drive connected to one specific machine may be shared to all machines... Kind of the idea of a file server. But hat machine would have to be on for other computers to access that hd... So yes a Firewire drive would work for this.
As for the ethernet one, never tried one myself, so can't suggest on it.

Ethernet-attached hard drives are a very nice thing. It sure is simple, and the reliability is high since it doesn't need a computer to play server. As Raven said, you can use a firewire drive on any Mac and share it also. At home we have a dual 200GB NAS (Network Attached Storage, the name of the ethernet-attached technology), a 120/200GB pair in a Windows 2003 server, and 200GB on an old iMac acting as a server. For just raw throughput speed, the NAS wins.

sweet. any hints on NAS brands/models?
i'm looking for affordable options. anyone out there with some words about Ximeta, LaCie or Buffalo affordable drives? or maybe other brands, but not pro-range ones ;-)

I installed a Buffalo 250GB Ethernet drive for a client (They have a Terabyte drive now!). This is a very nice drive with two USB ports for sharing a printer and automatic backup to a USB drive. It required running Virtual PC to initially setup the drive, but once up, it fully supports Windows and Mac with every user having their own login/password and access privileges. Very nice drive, IMO.

I lean toward Linksys, but all of them are about the same. I don't know if they make them yet, but I would avoid all the usual junk brands like D-Link, Belkin, etc.

I bought a SNAP! Server on eBay, but am thinking of replacing it with this...

http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10034

(just discovered it yesterday)

Use an old Mac
 

If you have an old Mac that is not in use, you could adapt it for file server use. An old Beige G3 (Rev B or C) will support 3 IDE drives of 128 GB or less (plus a CD). Adding a newer ATA card can get around the 128 GB limit if you want. And a friend of my loves using his old Mac Cube as the perfect compact file server. With OS X and headless operation, you should enjoy a very high up-time and be able to use the same admin tools/knowledge for troubleshooting etc. I'm sure an old PC could also be put to similar use.

Here's what I've been using for our office:
http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10176

Works great. Been using it over a year now with very few problems. We have 3 Macs and 2 Windows machines, and use this to store all our company files. It runs pretty much non-stop so that files can be accessed at any time. The Lacie plays nice on both platforms. Set-up was a breeze, through a web-browser interface which can also be used to change access privileges.

I recommend looking into the new mini disk (D2) mentioned above. More memory at half the price. :cool:

> Use an old Mac

yes i thought of that. i got an old ibook gathering dust. anyone out there wanna share experiences about this? any tips and tricks on the most effective way to run an old mac as a home server (concerning hard and software) will be much appreciated!

Does your iBook have USB 2 and/or Firewire? If not, forget it. If so, simply set it up with your external drive(s) and share them in the System preferences.

Ethernet drive possible caution
 

The LaCie drive used embedded windowsXP so I wonder if this compromises network security. I.e. if you've got a Mac, do you really want windows on your network? I'd be interested in learning if my all Mac network would be compromised by windowsSP embedded in the LaCie ethernet drive.

> you've got a Mac, do you really want windows on your network?

not windows, but quite possibly linux based machines. so i wouldnt go for a mac-only device, which i reckon most of these disks are not...

linux ethernet drives
 

who makes linux ethernet drives that can be set up via a Mac?

I've been looking into this as well. There are quite a few brands out there. I'm leaning towards Iomega right now. Here's a quick list of available brands at MacWarehouse/CDW.

http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/Resul...100002&grp=nss

i think at least the LaCie and Ximeta support linux, mac and windows. probably other brands do that too...

NAS storage OS systems
 

The Lacie and IOMEGA NAS drives both use embedded windows so I believe using either of these drives exposes your system to all the virus vulnerability of Windows.

I could not readily determing the embedded OS used for the Singletech, IOGEAR, or Ximeta NAS dirves; I'm looking for a drive with a Linux embedded OS.

Then there is always a Mac Mini with one or two firewire drives attached. ;)

Really? I would never have guessed. I was expecting they would use an embedded UNIX varient. My understanding is that most of the home wired and wireless Internet Routers use some sort of *NIX.

Fortunately the two clients I have who want to use an Ethernet drive are both behind NAT routers. Still it's important to know the risks. Thanks for posting this.

You guys don't understand how OS vulnerabilities work. There's nothing to worry about in this situation for a list of reasons, but I fear whatever I say about Windows will end up as another OS war. Anyway, if you think it's a problem, try to find a single example of one of these devices being compromised.

I'm not looking for a war and I appreciate your posting here. I admit my reaction was a reflexive one. I'd like to find out more about Embedded Windows. I guess it's off to google for me.

I guess I'm jumpy about Windows subjects here.

Embedded Windows means it is in firmware, and a virus or such couldn't over-write the firmware. Also, you're probably talking about Windows CE, which has no viruses. CE is the normal thing to use on devices, rather than XP (though there is an XP for devices also). Most of the vulnerabilities that affect Windows use vectors which aren't in embeded devices, such as Outlook and IE.

Thanks for the explanation. I appreciate it. And sometimes it's not a bad idea to be jumpy about Windows around here. :-)

Does the LaCie ethernet disk support file names longer than 31 characters on Mac systems? I know some of the consumer-level NAS systems do not... something to do with which level of AFP they support.

This is a good question for them. I have written a few questions of my own to them and they have not answered yet. Mine are...

Can you use the USB and Ethernet input at the same time?

Will the unit sleep while not being accessed?

What is the power requirements?

The unit has been delayed until March. Must still be working out the bugs. I will resend my questions and include yours--it's a good one, and now that I think about it, my Snap! server does not handle the long filenames either.

Neither does the Buffalo drives support filenames over 31 characters. I suspect this is to maintain compatibility with OS 9 systems. The Buffalo has USB to allow access to an additional USB drive either through the network or as an automatic backup device. It also supports a USB printer for network access. It does sleep when not in use and uses very little power (a small power brick).

I can't answer for them specifically, but in general with these devices:

1. No
2. Yes
3. Depends on the drive mostly, the electronics are low-power. I'd call it "insignificant" when compared to a computer.

Close, here is the answers from LaCie

Thank you for your inquiry.
1. Can you use the USB and Ethernet input at the same time?
No, the USB input is for attachment to a computer for administration rights to format the drive, or to be used as an attached drive.

2. Will the unit sleep while not being accessed and come out of sleep when called for via the ethernet?
The drive is not capable of a "Sleep" mode.

3. What is the power requirements (wattage)?
The power supply that ships with the unit is 100-240V.

4. Does the LaCie ethernet disk support file names longer than 31 characters on Mac systems?
The character limit is depending on how you format the drive.


#3 is a stupid answer and obviously the person giving the answer didn't know what the heck he was talking about. Voltage is not power. I even clarified by putting WATTAGE in my question. Sheesh.

Based on number three, I am wagering #2 might not be a knowledgeable answer.

So you can reformat the drive without messing up the firmware? Or do you use the firmware to do the reformatting? I'd like to get my hands on the manual for this in PDF form. I think that would answer a lot of questions.

Having long filenames is important for the two clients I have that are looking for something like this. Is the 31 character limit typical for these NAS devices?

I downloaded the manual for the big rackmountable NetDisk models from LaCie's site, and it indicated that you have several choices for the disk format (you format through the drive's admin tool, which seems to be Java based - yay, cross-platform). It seems that if the disk will only be used by Windows and OS X systems, you get 255 character filename support. OS8/9 compatibility forces you to choose a different format, and you end up with 31. So answer 4 was correct.

As for sleep mode and power consumption, I'd be really surprised if the disk doesn't spin down when not being accessed, and the rest of the electronics can't draw much power when idle.

I don't get the 31 character limitations on most of these things... I have a Linux box (Debian) at home which happily serves up long file names with netatalk. It's a bleeding-edge build, but surely it's not beyond the capability of the hardware vendors to get it working reliably if I can do it.

I hope he's wrong about #2. Every cheap consumer-grade NAS I've tried out will sleep the drive when it's not being used. If this is true, then there's no reason to buy the LaCie over the others.

And yeah, pretty clueless on #3...

They did write me back when I challenged them on #2...

AC Input
100-240V and 50-60hz@1A
DC Output
5V@2A, 10W
12V@2.2A, 26.4W


I think they have a terminology and just gave me a pat response. By sleep they may be thinking the way a Mac sleeps, which it does not do. However, standby is different. I will try clarifying with them.

Here is what LaCie said...

1. When not in use, does the hard drive spin down? Do the electronics go into some kind of standby mode? Basically, are we looking at a 26watt power drain while it is not being used?

The drive will unfortunately, not go into any standby mode. So long as it is plugged in, it will be "awake"


2. What OS base is being used Java (like some of your other NAS servers) or Windows based?

The Ethernet Mini will be using a bare bones Linux OS internally.

Still doesn't make any sense to me. If true though, then I'd recommend one of the many others that does spin down the drive. "Sleep" is probably not the right terminology, and there may be some confusion there.

On the power side, the usage calculation is not that straightforward. The figures are probably max, not constant, and it takes more to start the drive than keep it running. But on the other hand, the power supply is probably only 50% efficient, maybe 70% tops.

I agree. As far as marketing this product, they are not doing a very good job at showing off the good points.

Ooh, Linux inside! If you can get a shell on it, you can probably do all kinds of neat stuff. Run Apache on it and make it a web server!

I still can't believe they'd not let the drive spin down when idle. That seems stupid, especially for a product targeted at home users with light duty cycles.

I don't think they understood the concern. I'm almost positive that the drive spins down, but the software remains active.

There's been some great research done in this thread; I really appreciate it. One concern that hasn't been mentioned is the ability to have more than one user get write access to a file.

In particular, there is a feature in Entourage 2004 that allows many people to share project data such as calendars, contact and to-do lists, etc. The way this works is that the calendar files get put on a server and everybody points their individual copy of Entourage at the files. There is no Entourage server application, just all the clients accessing one file at the same time.

On one of these devices I noticed that there was a limit of only one user having write access to a file at a time. The second user would be granted read only access to the file. I know that I can put the files on an old Powerbook G3 running OS 9 and the sharing works fine, although it's slow. If the OS in one of these Ethernet HDs can't handle that kind of sharing then I can't use it. I'll make some enquiries and post back if I get any relevant information.

Normally, the file open mode is determined by the application. However, because these are consumer-grade devices, they may lock down open files to prevent people from shooting themselves in the foot. That's a great question you have, I'd really like to know the answer if you find it.

Seems to me that all depends on what kind of sharing level you put on the partition. If it is "everyone" full read and write, I do not see why it would not work.

The reason I'm concerned is because of this statement I found on Iomega's site. This is for the Iomega® 160GB Network Hard Drive High-Speed Ethernet.
This makes me think that permissions have to be assigned by the device, not by OS X.

This question is not about permissions. It is about file locking conventions, which are completely seperate from permissions. You could be root and still be locked out of a file that is opened for exclusive write. OS X will assign the permissions. File locks are handled by the application and the OS of the host where the file is stored.

Thank you, that was my mistake saying "permissions." Now I'll know better what to ask the folks at LaCie and other vendors. You can see why I am concerned though. It looks like Iomega's drive will not cut it for what I want to do.

Very likely. File locking is fraught with complexity and pitfalls. They may have made the decision that since this is a consumer-grade device, they should take "safe" over "flexible."

I'd recommend you look at one of the low-end Snap servers prevalent on eBay. I'm pretty certain all those support proper (application-driven) file locking.

Not sure I can agree with this statement having worked with embedded Windows. The whole concept of embedded windows is you can take the OS apart piece by piece and only include the services and items you want.

I HIGHLY doubt a drive manufacturer would include those services in their embedded windows build that typical viruses use to travel on. Lets be real here that the majority of all viruses come in one of three ways:

1) email
2) web page
3) direct file copy and execution of said infected file

I don't think your etherdisk is going to be firing up outlook express or any other mail transport and I certainly don't think it will be surfing the web in your absence.

That leaves #3 which is still a possibility regardless of mac or windows. If you take a file from an unknown location, you don't virus check it and then you execute it yes you run the risk of infecting something.

But again what transport does the virus have on the embedded windows file server? The chances are EXTREMELY small that something could propagate that way. In fact I would venture to say it would have to be written specifically to attack that etherdrive and exploit some weakness there.

Also most Etherdrives should be installed on the private LAN side of the firewall. That will also protect them should their developers have been stupid enough to include something like MSN messenger in their build. Then the only people you have to worry about are the folks within your trusted group.

Mark

Is it possible?
 

Is it possible to use a Seagate Free Agent Pro USB/eSATA external hard drive to back up an old iMac and a new duo core on the same LAN through a router? My MIS guy says this is not possible but I can't believe that. If yes, how?