The macosxhints Forums

The macosxhints Forums (http://hintsforums.macworld.com/index.php)
-   Applications (http://hintsforums.macworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Rip/extract audio (only) from a DVD I own?? (http://hintsforums.macworld.com/showthread.php?t=32299)

Sumleilmus 12-19-2004 10:53 PM

Rip/extract audio (only) from a DVD I own??
 
OK, I already tried search using permutations of "DVD" "extract" "rip" "audio", and found only 3 fossils.

I own a DVD. All soundtrack CDs are out of print. Is there a way I can coax the audio from the DVD into some format My Friend iTunes can play? (In this case, I want the entire audio track, although having it broken into "tracks" would be nice, so as not to gag caches.)

Thanks in advance.

voldenuit 12-20-2004 04:28 AM

There must be less klunky ways of doing it, but using Audio Hijack would definitely be an option.

ibroughton 12-20-2004 04:59 AM

mAC3DEC
 
If your DVD source has an AC3 soundtrack then try mAC3DEC I haven't used it personally but it looks like it does the sort of thing that you want it to do. (And it's free). Most DVD sound tracks (at least the ones I own) come in AC3 format, so you might want to include that in your search if you find that mAC3DEC isn't for you. Hope this helps!

Sumleilmus 12-20-2004 10:55 AM

Appreciated (merci)
 
I just downloaded mAC3DEC, and will give it a spin shortly.

Thanks.

Las_Vegas 12-21-2004 12:44 AM

You will have to extract/decode the VOB files from the DVD first with a utility like DVDBackup (If the DVD is encoded). You will then need to Demultiplex the VOB file(s) into their separate MPEG2 and AC3 files with a utility like bbDEMUX. Once you have the AC3 files, mAC3DEC will do nicely to convert the AC3 files.

ibroughton 12-21-2004 02:10 AM

Sorry, as I thought you were searching for a utility to extract audio, I thought that these steps had already been done (oops!) but yes,and it is an easy process (even if it does sound long winded!)

Caius 12-22-2004 10:42 AM

You could just download Wiretap off the Ambrosia website. Play the DVD at the same time as you hit record in wiretap and it will save the sound to a file for you. downside is it captures all the computers output sound.

jfunkk79 01-16-2005 02:39 PM

I've found a great combination for ripping audio off dvds. Grab OSEx here http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/9830 and get mAC3dec as ibroughton mentions. Use OSEx to rip the ac3 file then use mAC3dec to convert to aif or mp3. Make sure to change "FMT" in OSEx to "Elem. Streams" and deselect the video track. This will rip to ac3 and not vob. I was hoping to find a one step ripping solution but this works pretty well.

ShavenYak 01-17-2005 09:03 AM

If you're not dead set on a free solution, Cinematize will extract the audio only and decode into AIFF or WAV. So your process becomes decrypt DVD (if necessary), extract audio to WAV, import into iTunes (and compress to MP3/AAC if desired). I haven't actually played with it yet, but it looks pretty slick.

Y'all know OSEx hasn't been updated since 2002? If it works, cool, but I'd prefer to use software that someone is still actively maintaining. I've had good luck with Mac the Ripper.

Las_Vegas 01-18-2005 04:31 AM

OSEx, for what it does, doesn't need updating. All it is, is an extractor. It works perfectly for this. One of the plusses is that it can extract into a single encoded MPEG2 file. Since most editing requires breaking up the file into your own specialized sizes, starting with one file is quite convenient.

Once you have the extracted file(s) from OSEx, follow up with MPEG2 Works, which is updated regularly. This wonderful package lets you do just about anything with the OSEx file including, but not limited to PAL/NTSC conversion. A little feat that would previously take me a week to accomplish! Yes... It also does audio extraction and re-encoding!

Sumleilmus 01-19-2005 03:22 AM

Steep Learning Curve
 
Well, I'm getting this done, sort of. Thanks to all.

I ripped the DVD with Mac The Ripper.

I extracted the VOB files to AC3 with bbdemux.

I converted the AC3 files to AIFF with mAC3DEC.

I got a different aiff file for each channel (lots of channels!).

It seems I have to mix the streams (how??) to get them to be an aiff with at least the right and left channels in stereo.

I wonder if I should throw DVD2oneX at the Mac The Ripper output (and selecting just the two channel audio) before throwing bbdemux at it?

Also, I grossly underestimated the size of all the files I would end up with from this one DVD and seriously overinflated my PowerBook, which is just now recovering.

I'm going to start over on a desktop machine with a GIGANTIC attached storage device, so as not to worry as the gigabytes pile up.

Am I headed in the right direction?

Thanks.

ShavenYak 01-19-2005 09:04 AM

You're making it too complex, I think. The latest Mac the Ripper will do the demuxing for you if you ask it to, check http://www.wormintheapple.gr/macdvd/mtr.html for details. This cuts down on some intermediate files. Also, you probably want to use "Title - Chapter Extraction" to chooes only the chapters you want. Your end result from this should be a few stereo AC3 files (do NOT grab the 5.1 stream, it won't do you any good).

I'm not familiar with mAC3dec, the last time I did this I used ffmpegX. It will take your stereo AC3 streams and convert directly to MP3 or AAC. It might be overkill for this job, but I was using it for getting some audio tracks into iTunes and putting music videos in Quicktime format.

Sumleilmus 01-19-2005 10:06 AM

Too complex?
 
I have v. 2.6 of Mac The Ripper. I agree that the documentation to which you link states that MTR 2.6 demuxes. Alas, I can't find any evidence of this (or I don't know what demuxing is). There don't seem to be any simple or advanced settings in MTR that pertain to this.

This is the output of MTR when I throw my DVD at it:

VIDEO_TS/

VIDEO_TS.BUP
VIDEO_TS.IFO
VIDEO_TS.VOB
VTS_01_0.BUP
VTS_01_0.IFO
VTS_01_0.VOB
VTS_01_1.VOB
VTS_02_0.BUP
VTS_02_0.IFO
VTS_02_0.VOB
VTS_02_1.VOB
VTS_02_2.VOB
VTS_02_3.VOB
VTS_02_4.VOB
VTS_02_5.VOB
VTS_02_6.VOB
VTS_02_7.VOB


None of these are directories, and none are AC3.

?????

darelon 01-19-2005 11:54 AM

I have no experience with audio extraction using MTR, but as suggested earlier in this thread: extracting and converting multiple audio tracks at once from music video DVD's is easily done with OSex and mAC3dec.

To demux/extract only the audio with OSex, splitting the audio in one file per chapter (usually equivalent to a song for music videos):
  1. After starting OSex and inserting your music video DVD, make sure the correct title is selected by clicking on the 'Ti' button.
  2. Click on the 'Vid' button an deselect the video stream(s).
  3. Click on the 'Aud' button and select the appropriate audio stream (usually 2 channel AC3).
  4. Click on the 'Fmt' button and select 'Elem. streams'.
  5. Click on the 'Seg' button and select 'Chapter' to split the audio by track in separate files.
  6. Click 'BEGIN' to start audio axtraction.
(Much easier done than described... :))

The resulting AC3 files can then be converted to AIFF, WAV, MP3 or other formats with a tool like mAC3dec, or played directly with e.g. VLC.

Ciao,
Roeland.

Las_Vegas 01-19-2005 03:11 PM

Any technique you use to extract the AC3 files, they will all contain either 5.1 Surround Sound or Stereo. Surround will be in either DTS or Dolby. Only the later will decode into an audio file. Every AC3 decode utility I've found will extract Stereo and Dolby 5.1 AC3 files to Stereo AIFFs. mAC3dec is my favorite so far.

I haven't found a utility yet that will separate the Dolby 5.1 AC3 files to 6 (or 3 stereo) files, but it would be nice. Given the separate tracks, A.Pack will create a Dolby 5.1 AC3 file. I haven't found any utility yet to handle DTS files, but my player doesn't use them anyway.

chris_on_hints 01-19-2005 04:03 PM

The OSex then mAC3dec option is the best option for getting the audio out of a DVD - using Mac The Ripper or other similar programs will result in ripping the video as well, which is a clear (although temporary) waste of disk space.

my only problem is that OSex crashes when i try to run it on my G4... works fine on my dad's G5... strange.

an alternative not yet mentioned is 'DVDibbler' - which is able to output straight to mp3 audio, but im not sure you can disable the video ripping.

can anyone shed light on why OSex would not run on my G4??

ShavenYak 01-20-2005 09:19 AM

Yes, Mac the Ripper can extract audio only!
 
Well, I just fired up MtR on my iBook... and it's not intuitively obvious how to do it, so here's a quickie step-by-step.
  1. Insert DVD and launch Mac the Ripper.
  2. Click the Mode button and choose either Title Set, Title Only, or Title - Chapter Extraction. Choose which titles and/or chapters you want to extract.
  3. Click the 'D' button and the Streams button will be activated. Click it and a drawer will pop out showing the streams that are available.
  4. De-select your video stream and any unnecessary audio streams.
  5. Click Go, and watch and wait as MtR dumps an .ac3 file onto your hard drive. It'll also put an empty VIDEO_TS folder there, don't worry about that.
  6. There is no Step 6.

The one advantage OSex seems to have over MtR is the ability to automatically split into multiple files by chapter. In MtR you'll have to select each chapter individually. I'll have to put in a feature request for that.

Unfortunately, I don't have ffmpegX installed on my iBook, so I can't do a step-by-step right now, but I can do it later if anyone wants.

Las_Vegas: DTS soundtracks should get extracted into .dts files, not .ac3, although I suppose it's up to the ripping or demuxing program to get that right. There are very few tools to work with .dts files, even in the peecee world :( . A decent DTS encoder program typically costs $1000 or more (and it's nearly impossible to find... ahem... "evaluation ;) " copies because most are dongle-protected). Decoders are built in to many of the peecee DVD player programs, but are usually so hidden or crippled as to be unusable for decoding stand-alone files.

It's also sometimes possible that you'll find a DVD with PCM stereo tracks. These are the ones to grab if available - real CD quality uncompressed sound. I'm guessing a ripper on the Mac would save these as AIFF files... I'll have to check that on my Hell Freezes Over DVD.

Edit: I forgot to point out another way to decode your .ac3 files... if you have Toast with Jam, you can drag the .ac3 files to a Jam CD-audio compilation, save as a disc image, then iTunes will rip it like it was a real audio CD. In fact, if you do this with .ac3 files from a DVD-audio disc, it might find the matching CD in CDDB and get your track names for you.

Sumleilmus 01-20-2005 01:13 PM

The job is done!
 
I used 0Sex and mAC3dec per Darelon's advice above, and it worked very well indeed. (Thanks for the details re the settings.) As ShavenYak points out, the nice thing about using 0Sex is getting the individual tracks. This DVD had 62 tracks, and that's what I got. I titled them, ripped to aac, and did the needful with the id3 tags in iTunes.

Red-faced, I admit that the problem I had using MTR -> bbdemx -> mAC3dec was due to overlooking a checked preference for "separate channels," hence the excessive and fragmented output.

By this point, everyone or no one wonders what was the DVD. It starred Roger Daltrey (remember The Who?), and is from 1983: The Beggar's Opera, by John Gay.

Thanks to all.

ShavenYak 01-21-2005 12:20 PM

Ouch, 62 tracks? That would induce carpal tunnel if you used Mac the Ripper. I did put in a request to the developer for splitting the output at title or chapter boundaries. No response yet, though. I might have to play with OSex, if it'll run on my G4 iBook.

Sumleilmus 01-22-2005 02:34 PM

But, but
 
62 tracks is the RIGHT number, just the number I wanted.

The DVD has 62 chapters. It's a ballad opera, and each chapter has one song in it.

Really, nothing needs or needed to be fixed save for my skills at using these now less unfamiliar tools.

Thanks again.

cjsmacosx 03-07-2005 12:58 AM

Hi,

I used Extractor 0.97 to extract the .ac3 file and .m2v file from a .vob file on a DVD I made in a Panasonic DMR-E85H. The .ac3 file can be played in Apack and also imported into DVDSP2. The .m2v file can be played in VLC but not in QT; it also cannot be imported into DVDSP2, saying the file is not recognized.

Can anyone suggest what is wrong with the .m2v file that it cannot be used in DVDSP2?

Thanks,

C.J.

Rokcet Scientist 03-07-2005 08:06 AM

If you've successfully ripped the audio off of the DVD and are left with one big continuous sound file, you can chop that big continuous sound file into manageable tracks using "Amadeus II" (http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/)

darelon 03-07-2005 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjsmacosx
The .m2v file can be played in VLC but not in QT; it also cannot be imported into DVDSP2, saying the file is not recognized.

To play back MPEG2 video files (.m2v) with Quicktime, you'll need the extra MPEG2 Playback Component, which can be purchased from Apple. I don't know DVDSP2, but it probably depends on Quicktime for its decoding.

cjsmacosx 03-07-2005 11:46 AM

Hi,

Final Cut Pro makes .m2v files through File ... Export ... Conversion and DVDSP2 makes .m2v files through its encoder. There seems to be something different about the .m2v files made by Extractor and those made by FCP and DVDSP2. Only once did Extractor make a useable .m2v file, the rest of the time it makes files not recognizable by DVDSP2.

C.J.

mreadman 04-14-2005 06:48 PM

Audio from DVDs
 
Many thanks for this easy-to-follow set of instructions - I've also been trying to extract audio from DVDs and discovered that Wire Tap's AIFC files wouldn't play on the iPod (and, of course, have to be recorded in real time). Consequently the process outlined below is a real gift.

Mark.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darelon
I have no experience with audio extraction using MTR, but as suggested earlier in this thread: extracting and converting multiple audio tracks at once from music video DVD's is easily done with OSex and mAC3dec.

To demux/extract only the audio with OSex, splitting the audio in one file per chapter (usually equivalent to a song for music videos):
  1. After starting OSex and inserting your music video DVD, make sure the correct title is selected by clicking on the 'Ti' button.
  2. Click on the 'Vid' button an deselect the video stream(s).
  3. Click on the 'Aud' button and select the appropriate audio stream (usually 2 channel AC3).
  4. Click on the 'Fmt' button and select 'Elem. streams'.
  5. Click on the 'Seg' button and select 'Chapter' to split the audio by track in separate files.
  6. Click 'BEGIN' to start audio axtraction.
(Much easier done than described... :))

The resulting AC3 files can then be converted to AIFF, WAV, MP3 or other formats with a tool like mAC3dec, or played directly with e.g. VLC.

Ciao,
Roeland.


Scooter1112 05-26-2007 08:52 PM

Merging the files
 
Okay. I now have the audio files in MP3 format. What I need to do now is edit the files together and then split that one big stream into tracks. What program do I use and how do I do it?

I am pretty good with Macs, but software like this just scares me! (:o )

melon 05-27-2007 08:03 AM

Scooter1112, try using Audacity. A brief tutorial on joining mp3 files here: http://www.simplehelp.net/2007/04/24...files-in-os-x/

Scooter1112 05-27-2007 10:16 AM

Thank You. I have a big stream of audio. Now how straightforward is it to divide it into tracks?

melon 05-27-2007 12:14 PM

Google is a magical thing you know :)

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/help...=files&i=split
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/manu...mmon_ed_3.html
http://www.jakeludington.com/ask_jak...dio_to_cd.html

More tutorials here: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/manu...tutorials.html

reeserv 05-27-2007 12:50 PM

Just read this post and I have a different way that I have used to get Audio off of anything that I can play on my Mac. If might be a little clunky for some and I'm no expert, but it works.
I use a program called iShowU, it is a screen capture program similar to Snapz Pro. It costs $20 and I use it mostly to make training movies for programs we use at my school.
After I make my settings in iShowU, I use a small size capture window and I have it capture the system audio and set the audio quality to high.
Record the track, chapter or complete sound track. The program saves the recording as a .mov file on my desktop.
I open the .mov file usng QuickTime Pro, select Show movie Properties from the Window menu and then click on the sound/audio track and extract it. I then Export the track to either AIFF, Lame MP3, AU or Wave format. Then I can fine tune it in Audacity.

melon 05-27-2007 02:21 PM

Reeserv, if you're going to record the audio like in your method, Audio Hijack or Wiretap (both mentioned already on the first page) are better as the record straight to an audio file.

antiPIG 07-26-2007 03:44 PM

Thanks, everyone. I've been wanting to get the songs off a live music DVD for a while. your instructions really helped out.

sopps 09-15-2007 03:49 AM

Hello,

I don't know if anybody is still reading this thread, but I am curious still how to convert DVDs to MP3 or other audio formats. I was reading post #17 and followed the instructions but still does not work. Can anybody help me?

tu24la 04-02-2008 03:10 AM

Extract Movie Soundtrack - works great
 
I finally figured it out.

Step 1 - Use HandBrake to extract the movie into Quicktime format (.m4v). Select only the chapters you want to extract. For example, I wanted just the main title and ending credits music from Star Trek First Contact, which sounds great by the way.

Step 2 - Use Extract Movie Soundtrack by http://www.monkeybreadsoftware.de/Freeware/index.shtml
on the extracted video file to create an audio file.

Step 3 - Open the file in iTunes or do some editing on the file in something like CD Spin Doctor (comes with Toast) and then import into iTunes.

No need to record the soundtrack while it plays. I didn't get good results when I tried to do so with the new CD Spin Doctor that comes with Toast 9. Perhaps it was simply the DVD player in the Mac I was using. Anyway, the above works very well.

Bluesun 05-26-2008 08:53 PM

I've been following this thread trying to do something similar for music videos that I downloaded from iTunes. I wanted the audio tracks and accidentally bought the music videos instead. The files are in m4v format. Is there any way to extract just the audio for my iPod? I tried the suggestion above to no avail. Thanks for any help you can offer!

Las_Vegas 05-27-2008 01:27 AM

You can capture the audio in real time as it plays using Audio Hijack Pro.

chris_on_hints 05-27-2008 02:31 AM

Vegas is right - these files are protected video files so you cannot just pull them apart. Audio Hijack or Audio Hijack Pro are definitely the answer.

PeterMac 01-11-2009 11:59 PM

Extracting audio from DVD with iLife
 
It's actually fairly simple to capture audio from a DVD onto your Mac. If you want to rip, extract etc you can do it all with software you already own, and only generate a fairly small (500MB) master file in the process. You need to be able to play DVDs, and also have GarageBand and iTunes (part of iLife). The only non-standard item is an audio cable with a stereo 3.5mm plug at each end.

The principle is as follows:
1) Play the DVD on your computer
2) Use the cable to take the audio from the headphone socket back into the microphone socket
3) Record the audio on GarageBand
4) Export to iTunes
5) Burn to CD, upload to mp3 player etc.

Tips:
- Set up GarageBand and DVD windows so you can watch video and see the audio trace (wont be able to hear anything as your headphone socket is in use)
- Set up 2 GarageBand tracks - one unmuted to generate the initial recording and then transfer trimmed tracks to iTunes, the other muted as a working space for holding the unedited remainder (wont transfer to iTunes this way)
- In the Finder, ensure System Preference>Sound>Input is set to Audio line in port
- Also useful to set GarageBand recording to time rather than measure, and to switch off metronome
- The menu bar volume should be up pretty high to get a rich recording - but stay about 2mm shy of full volume or you will get weird feedback
- Hit record on GarageBand and play on DVD
- Once recorded I drag my edits between the muted and unmuted tracks submitting each freed song to iTunes as it's ready. In this way, an iTunes playlist is built up that generates a CD etc with individual tracks rather than a single long recording.
- This works great with Music DVDs that have a sing along version with the music only. Just set and forget.

Good luck

chris_on_hints 01-12-2009 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterMac (Post 512792)
The principle is as follows:
1) Play the DVD on your computer
2) Use the cable to take the audio from the headphone socket back into the microphone socket
3) Record the audio on GarageBand
4) Export to iTunes
5) Burn to CD, upload to mp3 player etc.

Ah - the 'analogue hole'. This will definitely work, no matter what the application you are using and will completely bypass any DRM, whether on DVD, iTunes, realplayer, windows media etc. You will lose a bit of quality in the conversion to analogue (ie coming out of the headphone socket) and then back to digital (ie going into the mic port).

When using the analogue route, it is a good idea to turn off any Mail or IM programmes - you dont want a 'new mail' beep in the middle of your recording!!

I have Audio Hijack, so can avoid that double conversion and it is able to isolate the sound from a single application, so I can continue to make all kinds of noise on my Mac while doing the recording.

akerdoc 01-16-2011 09:44 PM

I will list what I did to extract the Audio from a couple of DVDs.

I used 2 programs, Handbrake <http://handbrake.fr/> and Amadeus Pro <www.hairersoft.com>. With these programs there were only 2 steps. I tried several other ways, but they all took 3 steps. (Rip the Video to MP4, Convert MP4 to AIFF, Convert AIFF to MP3.)

With Handbrake and Amadeus Pro, it only took 2 steps. Handbrake to convert the Video_TS folder to MP4, then use Amadeus Pro to convert MP4 to MP3

With Handbrake I could select several files to convert at a time, and then with Amadeus I could select the files and covert the MP4 directly into MP3. You could also record to multiple other formats with Amadeus.

My 2 DVD had several hours of lectures and it only took me about an hour to convert all the files to MP3. I was going to use AudioHijack, but that would have taken 6 or 7 hours to record the files and then i would have to edit them. This was was much easier and faster.

Sumleilmus 01-18-2011 06:22 PM

thread not so old after all
 
If one's goal is to listen to the extracted audio on an iPod/iPhone, then the fact that the newer devices don't mind very large file sizes is a big plus.

So: rip the DVD to mp4 using Handbrake (about an hour, your mileage may vary)

Open the mp4 with QuickTime Player (pro). Export (not "save as") as aiff (not very much time)

Open the aiff file in iTunes and gasp at the speed with which it is converted to m4a (or, probably, to mp3).

While it is true that this takes 3 steps, it is fast, and it uses only one program not included in the OS (Handbrake) -- except for the pro upgrade to QuickTime Player. I spent my $29 on this in 2004 or so, and got my money's worth out of it before 2006, and it still works well. I bought the upgrade for QTP 7, now 7.6.6 in my machine).

My iPhone is quite comfortable with the big m4a files.

Although I still have a Tiger machine with 0SeX and the other tools needed to extract aiffs directly from a DVD, I find I no longer want to go to the trouble, because I can use my new machine to do it.

beerobber 01-20-2011 08:58 PM

Here are my steps to happiness ripping audio from DVD. This takes just two pieces of software, both free.

1. Handbrake (at release level 0.9.4 64-bit) to rip DVD to an MP4 file (.m4v)
2. Audacity (at release level 1.3.12-beta Unicode) to import (File, Import, Audio) while ignoring the complaint about ffmpeg libraries missing...unless you have ffmpeg libraries, but then you probably don't need to be scanning this post if you have your arms around ffmpeg.
3. In Audacity: Edit if you'd like; at least trim to exactly the audio you want; compression (Effects, Compressor) can help if you are after dialog or find the loud/soft variance unpleasant.
4. In Audacity: Export to MP3 or whatever (File, Export)

Jane55 01-25-2011 10:52 PM

Handbrake is great, and also did well jobs for me, but now, yeah, I used to use iFunia DVD ripper for my DVD movies ripping, and it have the option to extract soundtracks from DVD disks.

Narthex 10-17-2011 08:28 AM

This Works in October of 2011:

Handbrake to rip the DVD.

- Set the framerate to lowest (5) under Video, and also the Constant Quality all the way left (RF 51). This makes for really nasty video, but you don't care about that anyway if you're just wanting to rip audio.

- Right under the icons at the top you see two sections for chapters. Make the two numbers the same and you'll just rip that track. E.G. "Chapters" "1" through "1" to begin.

- Keep changing the file name and chapters numbers to rip a different file for each chapter. This is a real drag, but too bad. It works.

Now open a new program -- "MPEG Streamclip".

- Drag a file into the center of the app.
- Up under "file" click on "Export Audio".
- Take it from there, choosing the file type, etc., you want.
- Again, it's a lot of busy work, but it works, and both programs are free.

isadorasarah 10-18-2011 11:35 AM

MAC3dec'm not familiar with, the last time I did I used ffmpegX. Will take your stereo AC3 http://yoogya.com/ref/i4.jpgstreams and convert directly to MP3 or AAC. It might be overkill for this job, but I was using to get some audio tracks to iTunes and put music videos in Quicktime format.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:25 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site design © IDG Consumer & SMB; individuals retain copyright of their postings
but consent to the possible use of their material in other areas of IDG Consumer & SMB.