Who's going to Macworld SF 2005?
 

I was just curious to find out who is going to Macworld this year in San Francisco.

A lot of us have been posting on the forums for years, but never met face to face.

Maybe we could have a macosxhints party in one of the hotels, or just meet up at the keynote or something. :cool: ...just a thought.

I'm local, so I'll be there at least one day. I think it's a great idea.
I can help coordinate.
Rob, would you change the title of the thread to something like "macosxhints meet at Macworld SF" and pin the topic?

I think it's a great idea! I've had a few spot meetings with a few folks over the years, but a more formal gathering would be great. I will be there from the 10th through the 14th (leaving the evening of the 14th), so anytime in there is fine -- other than on the 12th from 1:15pm to 2:30pm, which is my set presentation time.

-rob.

Good to hear guys. Thanks. I'm flying in on the 10th, staying at the Pickwick. I'll be there the 10th through 13th. I'm willing to offer up my hotel room as it's a 4 person room and I'm the only one staying.

I've been kicking around the idea. Can a relatively new Mac user gain much from this? Is it like Comdex used to be?

And uh, silly question...when is it?

In my experience CAlvarez, the best things about trade shows are the people you meet. There's tons of users and developers there to bounce ideas off. It's like having the power of a web forum, but they're all in one room.

That's why I'd like to organize something between the users on this forum, that alone would make it worth the trip. If you go, you probably won't regret it.

Well put.

Now about the dates...?

You can find out all the info at
http://www.macworldexpo.com/live/20/
the conferences are January 10th to the 14th
the expo is January 11th - 14th
I'll be at the expo January 11th

You're too late for the free exhibit pass, but you can still get a discount on conference packages.

TO REGISTER:
===============
Register online by November 5, 2004 (11:59 pm EST) with
PRIORITY CODE: B0201 to receive a Free Exhibit Hall pass.

Or with the same priority code, you can save with Early Bird
Pricing on your choice of conference package until December 10,
2004. (Exhibit Hall pass included in all conference packages).

Register at
http://emessaging.vertexcommunicatio...378&m=m&type=3

For information on our conferences, go to:
http://emessaging.vertexcommunicatio...378&m=m&type=3

I’ve just booked tickets to California (from Norway) for me and my daughter. Visiting family. Return date 10. January.

Should I extend my stay to catch MacWorld?
I’ve never been to one of these events.

I’m an avid Mac user – but a mere user (copywriter), not a techie. I am, however, endlessly fascinated by IT/Mac developments. And very excited by the direction and tempo of Apple’s strategy in particular.

Is MacWorld 2005 a must?

Best regards,
ArcticStones

Yes, you should extend your stay. MacWorld is not a techies-only event -- average users are there in force every year.

To come all this way and not catch MacWorld would be a Bad Thing.

If you decide to change your schedule, post your changes here. I do think we'll be able to arrange a meetup.

Breen

I've been to several Mac World Expos over the years (all in San Francisco) and have always had a good time (I am not a techie, but perhaps slightly more techie than the average user). If you're going to be in the Bay Area, not just California, it's worth checking out. The exhibit floor is always packed with companies showing their latest products and often offering discounts and giving away a few items each day.

So, if you're going to be in the Bay Area, and it won't cost too much to change your flight, then stay a couple extra days if you can. While you can see everything in one day at Mac World, it's hard... so plan on at least 2 days on the exhibit floor.

OK - you convinced me. MacWorld, here I come!
 

Thx for the advice!
I think I’ll do just that. The ticket change won’t cost me extra. A friend I had in San Francisco has since relocated. So all I have to worry about is rescheduling some projects and finding reasonable lodgings for me and my daughter – she’s 16 and I’m sure she would love MacWorld.

Tickets for MacWorld, practical info – that’s probably not difficult? I saw there were some links here. Are there a lot of people from MacOSXHints goint? I really love the good tone on this supportive forum!!

Best regards,
Olav

When searching for reasonable lodging look outside of San Francisco but near a BART station
http://www.bart.gov/index.asp
or a CalTrain station
http://www.caltrain.com/
(you might something reasonable in SF as well, but I wouldn't bet on it)

Mac World SF is always held at the Moscone Center
http://www.moscone.com/
which is a few blocks (I think 4) from 2 of the downtown SF BART stops.
and something like 5 or 6 blocks from the CalTrain station. (under 10 minutes walking time from each)

Parking is also extremely difficult and generally very expensive in San Francisco.

You can buy tickets to Mac World before you arrive, or you can buy them at the door. Order by December 10th and they're $20, after that they're $30, and $40 at the door.

Thx again! Is $20 for the entire event? Exhibition, keynote lecture and all?

As a copywriter I can’t miss Steve Jobs in action. He is a master presenter – probably the best salesman I’ve ever seen. :)

OK, I’m about to call my travel agent and reschedule the tickets so I can catch MacWorld. Thx for the recommendations – you’ve sold me! :)

Steve Jobs holds his keynote at 9am on 11 January. That’s broadcast onto a screen on the exhibition floor, no? Been looking for a program to see when on the 10th the exhibition floor opens. Hopefully early morning. Can’t find those details...

Wondering when to reschedule my return flight. Considering the 12th (best for me), possibly the 13th. Recommendations?

Is MacWorld a good place to shop? (This may be off-topic here; if so, I apologise. Trying to set a budget; balancing between savings to be had and how much I can afford.)
The top priority is a 12" iBook for my daughter, could be used/refurbished. And Tiger – if Jobs has it packaged and ready to go. :D

Best regards,
An excited first-time MacWorlder

Well, that's six of us so far guys. I'm sure we'll round up a few more. Griffman and Breen any ideas of when and where to meet up?

Make that eight (if I can bring my very well-behaved daughter). :)
I’ve now booked my return for the afternoon of the 13th, so anytime before that is fine.

Any requests for refreshments from Norway?

Looking a few posts back...

ArcticStones, the $20 pass does not include keynote admission or admission to feature presentations or classes. The cheapest pass that includes all this is $195 ($156 if you're a student). That's what I opted for.

Steve is there in person at the Apple Booth... at least that's how it usually is. To see the keynote you have to get a conference pass and even then it's first come first served with limited seating. The exhibit floor does not open until after the keynote on the 11th. Conferences start on the 10th.

Yes and no. There are usually a couple booths set up just for selling things. Then the majority of booths showcase their products will take orders for them, or sell them right there. Apple on the other hand doesn't usually sell their stuff at MacWorld but you can use their computers to order from their online store ;-) Most items for sale at Mac World are cheaper than if you buy them afterwards.

Free passes to MacWorld!
 

Yesterday I saw a news item on Macminute.com. PeachPit was giving away free passes to MacWorld 2005. Well, I sent them an e-mail. Lo and behold -- a few hours later I got an e-mail telling me that two free passes had been sent that very same day. And that they looked forward to seeing me there.

Nice! They have more... Here’s the address:
macworld@peachpit.com

With best regards,
ArcticStones

Let's start picking a date
 

I'd prefer the 12th, but I see staypuft is only planning to be there the 11th. Any chance you can do a reprise?

Breen

Of course she'd be welcome. Nor will she be anything close to the youngest attendee. MacWorld always has throngs of knowledgable and enthusiastic younger users. Talking to them was always one of my favorite things about the show.

Breen

Staypuft, thanks for clarifying!
Well... to be honest I’m still not quite clear. :confused:

My conference (exhibition floor) passes are on the way. I did notice the posting that made it clear that any package that includes the keynote is costly. Shucks...
Well, would it be broadcast anywhere, for instance at the SF Apple story?

Here in Bergen, Norway, an Apple dealer has a "great public service" history: They present the streamed keynote on a big screen at a pub/restaurant downtown, rented for the occassion.

Hmm... Can you please advise me? I wish to buy a 12" iBook for my daughter -- at a good rate. It can even be refurbished/used. I’m in California 12/21-01/13. What’s my best strategy? Is it too much of a chance to wait until the 11th or 12th of January? :rolleyes:

My idea was to see if anything new came along at MacWorld; maybe the "old" iBooks would drop in price. Or that someone on the exhibit floor would have a good deal, new or used (not "glow in the dark"). By the way, if anyone knows of such a machine, I’m VERY interested. (A Norwegian keyboard is not a must. ;) )

With best regards,
ArcticStones

The Exhibit Hall pass (what you're getting for free) is to get in to see the exhibits (product demos, some learning classes, buy things from the exhibitors). The exhibit hall opens to everyone with Exhibit Hall passes on January 11th after the keynote. There are specialized conferences on the 10th but no exhibits. People that attend the conferences can go to the keynote in the morning on the 10th, but there is limited seating so you still need to get there early.

You can view the keynote on Apple's website later in the day, and I would not be surprised if it is shown live at their San Francisco flagship store, but I don't know.

Years ago you could buy computers at the Mac World Expo, but that has stopped. I would look on Apple's website for refurbished iBooks. They have one now for $699 (12" 1GHz G4, 256MB RAM, 30 GB HD, CDROM only)
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...ts/AppleStore/
click on the red "Save" tag towards the bottom for the current refurbs.

Since you will be in the Bay Area search the Bay Area Market newsgroups.
ba.market.computer
ba.market.computers
ba.marketplace.computers
ba.marketplace

I purchased 2 PC laptops a few years ago that I found there. Generally you email the poster, you set up a time and place(often their house) to see the computer and make sure it works and everything checks out. Then you give them cash and you get a computer.

I hope that helps and clarifies things.

Yup. Thx! :)

If I had it my way I would be there every day ;-) but I'm flying out there to see my parents, brother, and friends for the holidays (Mac World was just an added bonus) and I'm flying back on Jan. 12th.

So if I can make it to the gathering, great... but don't let me spoil the plans for another day. Perhaps the 10th before the expo would work for everyone? Is this going to be a gathering to just sit and talk, or will it be centered around a meal (lunch, dinner, cocktails, appetizers) or activity (bowling, miniature golf, board games, learning more about certain computer programs)? I'm fine with anything, I'm just wondering.

No, I think we should settle on the 11th then. Everyone okay with that?

Breen

11th sounds good to me. Are we talking at the keynote, post keynote, after the show, or evening??? I'm up for anything.

11th is fine by me... I vote for after the show as I'm sure several of us only have Exhibit Hall passes and wont be able to see the keynote.

The 11th works for me; can someone local to SF pick a good gathering spot? I'm staying somewhere right near the convention center and I won't have a car, so that general area would work best for me...

-rob.

Well cameranerd74 offered his 4 person hotel room at the Pickwick which is near the Moscone Center. Or were you thinking along the lines of a place for dinner?

Yea, I was thinking it might be fun to have a crowd together for a dinner somewhere -- as soon as we get this figured out, I intend to post the details on the main site, so the crowd could get somewhat larger.

-rob.

Dinner ---> then PickWick ?
 

The 11th sounds good to me as well. Perhaps a dinner with the possibility of relaxed discussion afterwards, for example at the PickWick? (By the way, we’re trying to maybe get a room there...) Whatever you decide, I’m open to it.

Really looking forward to this! :)


With best regards,
ArcticStones

That sounds like a good plan. I'm not that familiar with places to eat in that area (I mostly dine in the East Bay where I grew up) but what I remember from walking around that area is small places with limited seating, and large places that appear fancy and expensive.

I'll email some friends and my brother to see if they know of any places. I assume we're looking for a reasonably priced place with plenty of seating. Any food restrictions?

My brother says that Max's Diner, a block or two from the Moscone Center, is good and reasonably priced ($10-$15 for a meal). He doesn't think they have any seating for large parties though. Also a block or two away is a Chevy's (Tex-Mex food for those that haven't heard of Chevy's). He said they have seating for large parties and dinner would be in the $15-$20 price range. Chevy's also has a bar for those that are interested.

For more options he said to look on citysearch.com
I checked quickly and searching for Moscone Center in San Francisco brings you to a page where can see restaurants sorted by distance from the Moscone Center. You can then narrow the search by type of food.

Dinner sounds good, diner or tex-mex is good with me, and yes the invitation to meet up a my hotel room is still open.

Also, I'm going by myself, so if anyone wants to meet up (to have someone to sit with) at the keynote please let me know. I don't mind sitting alone, but waiting in line by yourself is really boring.

This is going to be my first MacWorld. I have been to countless Comdexes, and Interops and CeBits but never delved into the world of the Apple and the Macintosh now. Perhaps it is because of just how far MacOSX has come and my proclivity towards Unix and Windows.

I spent the better part of this year recovering from surgeries and rather than picking up a book to read, i grabbed a hold of a Powerbook, immersed myself in the operating system and am now exploring it deeply.

I am curious to see how Apple and its vendors are looking for ways to approach the enterprise corporate community who are so staunchly in the Microsoft Windows camp.

Should be a hoot :)

I say we go with Chevy's
 

After looking at the San Francisco map, Chevy's looks like a good place. It's about half way between The Moscone and The Pickwick (about a block to a block and a half from each), and seems to have seating for medium to large groups. Not to mention it's hard to beat the location. Unless anyone has an objection to Tex-mex, I say we go with Chevy's... maybe 6pm on the 11th????

Any takers????

Sounds great to me! My daughter is a non-carnivore, but I’m sure the Tex-Mex menu will have something that tempts her as well.

By the way, I tried to get a room at the PickWick, with no luck yet. Considered the Montecello or Best Western Americania. Anyone know anything about these? Or other recommendations? I haven’t a clue...

There’s apparently a Housing hotline for MacWorld (866-704-6724). Professional, courteous and gives a discount.

– Arctic

PS Have we set a time?

Just to throw out another option, my friend mentioned an Italian place right by the Moscone Center, Buca Di Beppo. They have a menu with prices listed for their San Francisco location here.

http://www.bucadibeppo.com/m_storeMe...&menuTypeId=13

Yeah, Bucca Di Beppo should be convienient as well, it's also about half way between the Moscone and the Pickwick. I have never eaten at one in California, but I have eaten at several in other states. The food was always decent, but the atmosphere is always a good time. I'm fine with there as long as no one else has an objection.

We should think about getting a time locked down, Macworld is only a few weeks away. We may have to get a reservation made as well. Perhaps one of the locals can help out with that.

Jeez, it’s been ages since I ate great Tex-Mex food. But I’ve never been able to argue with a good Italian meal either. I’ll leave all that to the local experts.

More importantly, it would be really nice to have enough space, and a noise level that’s low enough to allow for great, fun conversation.

I think either one will offer plenty of room and good food...maybe not great food though.

As for great Tex-Mex... well you can find plenty of great (and often cheap) Mexican food (better than Tex-Mex in my opinion) in the Mission district, and plenty of good Italian food in North Beach.

I like the food at the Steps of Rome Trattoria in North Beach and I've heard a lot of good things about the Pancho Villa Taqueria in the Mission. A fun fact... San Francisco has the highest number of restaurants per capita in the United States... so you'll have plenty of chances to find great food. The hotel staff will surely know of some good restaurants that are near by.

I'm fine with either Italian or Tex-Mex... and I like the 6:00 time that was suggested as that's when the Expo ends for the day ;-)

I agree with the quality comment, but there is something to be said for conveinence. I say we go with 6 PM though, I think that would work nicely. Someone pick a place, I'm fine with anything.

Side note: Breen I didn't realize who you were until about 5 minutes ago, when I was reading about the feature presentations in the conference brochure. I've read a lot of your stuff over the years, but never drew the connection. Small world. :)

LOL!! No, I'm not Chris Breen. It's his last name but my first. (He got a very funny look on his face one time when I won a tchotchke at the MacWorld booth...)

Breen

OOPS, honest mistake. ;)

No problem. It's not a common name. I sometimes drop by the local outlet of the Evil Coffee Empire, where they're required to ask your name so that they can put in on the cup.
As often as not, the barista just punts and I get an unlabeled cup... ;)

Well, at least we got that ironed out :D We still need to get a place and time nailed down here before too long. Since you're local Breen, you may have a suggestion.


Also:
Which Users Conference are you hosting Griffman? I have a Users Conference pass, so I'll be sure to attend.

I just saw on www.macobserver.com that TechRestore has restored (refurbished) iBooks.

http://www.techrestore.com/xcart/pro...cat=254&page=1
remember to use the coupon code "BRIGHT" to save $100.

They have several other models of restored iBooks and PowerBooks if that one isn't what you want.

*EDIT* Apple has a refurbished 12" 1GHz G4 iBook 256MB/30GB/CD-RW-DVD combo drive for $799 in their Special Deals section of their online store. I thought it might be more along the lines of what you're looking for.

OK, I put up the Official Notice™ on the main site this morning. There's been a lot of banter here, all good, but now it's time to iron out the final details. So as noted on the main page, please send an email to mwsf2005@macosxhints.com if you'd like to attend the dinner, and include the number of people you'll have in your group.

Once I have a semi-final tally, I'll pick one of the spots that have been mentioned here and see if I can't reserve a room or area for us.

-rob.

I just wanted to say a quick thanks to everyone for participating in this thread.

... and a special thanks to griffman for pinning the topic and posting a blurp on the homepage.

I wasn't sure if anyone would respond to the topic, but I'm glad you all did. I'm looking forward to meeting all of you in SF.

We're at 14 or so people after a half-day, so hopefully we'll wind up with a good-sized group!

-rob.

I started reading this thread yesterday, but wasn't sure if it was a small group or a general pow-wow. I'm game, I'll send an email to the address.

Also, if you need help scouting any places out, I live in San Francisco.

I think it came down to Chevy's and Bucca Di Beppo. Both within a block or two of the Moscone Center. If you can stop by and check them out for large seating areas, noise level that would be great. If you want to try the food and service even better ;-)

Also if you see another option that is within say 3 or 4 blocks of the Moscone Center that looks good and has several dinner items in the $10 - $15 range let us know. As far as I know nothing is set in stone yet. And it's probably a good idea to give Rob multiple places to try to get a reservation for a large group as there are likely to be other groups with the same idea.

Cool, lets see...Chevy's and Buca are both good for groups. Both have ample space and aren't too noisy.

I personally like the food at Buca better, the only drawback being it's family style. The Linguine Fruti di Mare serves 4~5 people. At least if we go to Chevy's we can each order our own dishes and share the bucket-o-beer.

Update...

I have rooms reserved at both Chevy's and Buca (someone on the main site mentioned Thirsty Bear as an option, but a glance at the menu showed the prices to be somewhat high, and the food is authentic Spanish, which may not suit everyone's tastes). So at this point, we need to make a decision on which one the group would prefer (it's expanded to about 25 people now!).

Some info that I can see from the web, and from the phone calls...

• Both places will *only* do a group bill for a group of this size (though it appears that Buca will do separate tabs for drinks). So if you're not comfortable with splitting the bill amongst the group, we could have a bit of an issue. I have a feeling that any place we call with a group this size will insist on a combined bill.
  
• I think Chevy's is a bit less expensive than Buca, but the portions at Buca are big "family size," designed to be shared.
  
• Both are quite close to Moscone.
  
• Relevant websites: Chevy's (corporate site); Buca (SanFran location specific)
  

I need to call one of them back and cancel before the end of the weekend, so speak now, or I'll just make a choice :). I can't add a poll, I don't think, so just voice your comments here (or email me directly).

-rob.

I vote for Bucca, just because of the drink thing. I would say that everyone should pay for their own drinks, but we take the total price of the food (plus 20% for tip) and divide it by the number of people (split it evenly).

I'm my experience this is a better way to do it than figuring out exactly what each person owes. That becomes a mess.

With the size of the entrees there, we'll only need 6 or 7 dishes to feed a group of 25. It won't be that expensive and everyone will end up sharing.

Sounds good! I assume that any restaurant, including Bucca, has at least one non-carnivore dish. :)
I need to know where I can get ahold of someone in the group the old-fashioned way - cell phone / sms. Please drop me a note by this Monday.

Looking forward to this get-together!
And really looking forward to spending a few days in San Francisco again before and during MacWorld.

Two favors I'd like to ask:

First, somebody take a couple of pictures and we can have them posted here or on the main site;

Second, for those of us who'd dearly love to attend but can't, maybe someone who's there can post an update or two about what they see.

Also, there is an IRC area for the site you can read about here. For myself I'll probably keep iChatAV up and running in case anyone wants to do a realtime.

Hope you all have a wonderful time; and don't neglect the Asian cuisine while you're in S.F. :cool:

Gotcha covered Craig. I'm a photographer by profession, so I'll definitely be taking a few snapshots of the show and the dinner, and whatever else intrigues me. I planning on posting a gallery and blog on my .Mac site for updates, as long as I can gain internet access from the show and/or hotel. I'll let you use any of the photos royalty free, and if you send me your contact info, I'll just email them to you as soon as I get online. Contact me off board if you need to talk more about it.

How about the keynote?
 

I have a Users Conference pass, which gets my into the keynote, but I have never gone to a keynote before.

I know that the people with the combo passes get preferred seating and there's more attendess than seats, but how early should I show up to get a seat?

Anyone who's been through this before please let me know. I would really like to attend.

It's official:

6:00pm January 11th Buca di Beppo

We have an unofficial headcount of somewhere between 27 and 32, so it should be a lot of fun -- Buca says 30+ in the room won't be a problem. As noted earlier, this will be a group food bill with individual drink bills. The restaurant is reasonably priced and serves "family style" large servings, so it should be a reasonable total.

A notice will go up on the main site shortly, but I thought I'd post it here first.

See you all there!

-rob.

Get there early. Really early. When I arrived last year, about 45 minutes before the keynote, the line for the general admission portion of the keynote was already quite long.

That said, the room is huge, and unless you're right up front (most of those seats are reserved for the bigwigs), you'll probably end up watching the video screens as much or more than the stage.

-rob.

I vote from Bucca di Beppo. Fun place. Good for large numbers of people. Plus I like Italian food.

"I vote from Bucca di Beppo."

Good thing that's the one I chose :). See above for the official selection...

-rob.

Oh, sorry.

That's what I get for posting while on the 'phone. :-P

irc.krono.net?
 

Can't seem to connect to irc.krono.net on ports 6667,6668,6669,7000, or 9000. Anyone else able to connect? And if so, what port are you using?

It looks like the domain expired on the 13th and needs to be renewed.

For folks that want to chat now, I created #macosxhints on irc.freenode.net…if you know how to use IRC and can log on, come on over.

Directions on connecting: http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml

Who has any MWSF predictions?
 

Well, now that we've got the get together under control... Who has any predictions for what's coming at Macworld.

Personally, I predicting more mobile devices... perhaps an iPhone, or iPDA (the return of the Newton), and probably new iPods. I'm hoping for the possibility of an iTablet. In any case I hope we get a ship date for Tiger and some solid Betas to play with.

I predict Cool Stuff™ from Apple™.

MacWorld Product launches
 

Been working w/ BioTech/Healthcare Vertical Channel on XSan for a couple of months and and pretty confident that XSan will be launched at MW2005. The last release is stable and most of the bugs have been worked out. Not sure if its the "pre-release" yet (obviously they are keeping a lid on it). Definitely not Tiger yet. Would like to join in on the "meet & greet". Any details?

Please read above for the details, or see the blurb on the main site, right above the start of the hitns. Basically, Bucca di Beppo at 6pm on the 11th.

-rob.

did you read this?

sounds to me like they're having some problems.

Sans are hard to do, too. I wonder if Apple is making their own virtualize file system…if they are that might be what the issue is from.

I Hope This Is True!!!!!!
 

Did anyone see this???

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0412expo2.html

Just a quick Thank You to everyone who showed up tonight; I think we had somewhere between 25 and 30 for most of the night. It was a lot of fun, great food, and lots of chatter about Apple, the keynote, and life in general.

So thanks to all who showed; it was great to put some faces to the names I see every day on the two sites!

-rob.

Thanks to you for organizing everything Griffman. I had a great time. :)

An interesting side effect of the people who attended MacWorld remotely: Netcraft's report on generated web site traffic. :cool:

Hey, it only took me a month and a bit, but, ummmm, the dinner pictures are *finally* online. Making the album took all of three minutes. Getting my act together to sort the images, clean up redeye, etc., took 30+ days :).

Anyway, you can now view the photo album online, as well as a short (3.6MB) video clip.

Again, thanks to everyone who attended; it was great putting some faces to screen names!

-rob.

Great to see those get online…I'd almost forgotten they'd been taken.

The dinner was a lot of fun, and my only regret was that I managed to sit at the end of one table with people I already knew…but that's what next MacWorld is for.

We're doing another one, right, Rob? ;-)

Oh, and if anyone cares, I'm in pictures nine and seventeen on the left…next to the folks in the Apple shirts (if you weren't at MacWorld, they all had those green shirts). Rob is in picture 13 in the grey shirt, and it was great to meet him.

Thanks for posting those Griffman.

When I looked at all the pics, I realized how many people were there that I didn't get a chance to talk to. I hope I can attend again next year... there will be a next year... right?

Also, a special thanks to the folks I sat by (at Griffman's end of the table: Breen, Hayne, ArticStones and others) for the great conversation. I hope to see you all at the next Macworld SF.