Real World performance??
 

I am looking to get the powerlogix 1.4ghz upgrade for my 733 g4 powermac. What kind of real world performance should I expect to see from this machine? Right now, I can barely stand to use this computer due to it's slow performance. Anyone actually try out one of these upgrades? Thanx

What sort of thing are you doing (e.g. which apps) that is so slow?
I use an iBook 600 MHz that performs quite well for what I do.

I don't have any first hand experience with that upgrade, but if the 733 is unusable for you I think the only thing that would make you happy is a dual G5.

I would agree
 

if a 733 is that much of a problem .. then maybe looking at the rest of the system first might well yield more results. Software, what do you have running, the display card, the hard drive and its condition, its type and the controller connection. Tossing a bigger engine on a bad chassis makes more noise and not much else.

Cheers, Gary

benchmarks
 

Here are my xbench results. Are these about right or is something too low. I have a buddy getting a 56 on a 466mhz g4.

Results 59.16
System Info
Xbench Version 1.1.3
System Version 10.3.6 (7R28)
Physical RAM 256 MB
Model PowerMac3,5
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 734 MHz
Version 7450 (V'ger) v2.0
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 256K @ 734 MHz
Bus Frequency 134 MHz
Video Card GeForce2 TwinView
Drive Type WDC WD800JB-00ETA0
CPU Test 71.97
GCD Loop 54.80 2.14 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 77.99 282.02 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 89.12 2.59 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 90.63 1.41 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 61.92 2.48 Mops/sec
Thread Test 56.81
Computation 42.12 568.62 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 87.24 1.10 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 60.17
System 45.05
Allocate 265.66 173.29 Kalloc/sec
Fill 28.69 228.41 MB/sec
Copy 35.75 178.73 MB/sec
Stream 90.57
Copy 88.29 645.37 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 87.48 645.60 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 92.50 591.99 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 94.36 576.53 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 50.65
Line 40.53 1.03 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 57.74 4.06 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 57.28 1.32 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 41.97 456.01 beziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 64.75 1.06 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 43.36
Spinning Squares 43.36 30.34 frames/sec
User Interface Test 56.13
Elements 56.13 18.05 refresh/sec
Disk Test 104.26
Sequential 107.28
Uncached Write 119.30 49.73 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 126.57 51.83 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 90.02 14.25 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 101.07 40.83 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 101.41
Uncached Write 96.21 1.44 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 114.36 25.79 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 90.55 0.60 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 107.97 22.22 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Doesn't XBench publish sample scores that people have submitted?
Note that in comparing to your buddy's 466 MHz machine, the only thing that you would expect to scale up by a factor of 733/466 is the CPU score. Other things (disk, bus speed, etc) are probably similar on your two machines.

There were at least two different models of PowerMac G4 733. I would like to know exactly which of the two models you have.

1. The last of the El Capitan-cased PowerMac G4s, at the time the 733 was the high-end model. This one shipped with a 256 KB on-chip L2 cache and a 1 MB L3 backside cache.
Picture: http://lowendmac.com/ppc/g4small.jpg


2. The next model was the first Quicksilver-cased PowerMac G4, with a 256 KB on-chip L2 cache and no L3 cache at all. This was the low-end model at this time, and Apple only put L3 cache on the middle and high-end Quicksilvers, so the 733 got stiffed. This particular PowerMac is handicapped by inadequate cache in my opinion, and is appreciably slower than the older PowerMac G4/733 with it's L3 cache.
Picture: http://lowendmac.com/ppc/quicksilver.jpg

I note that your XBench report doesn't mention L3 cache, but I'm not sure if that is considered a standard item to list, so it is not conclusive. However, that hints that you may have the Quicksilver PowerMac G4/733.

If you do, then the processor upgrade will help enormously--just make sure that whatever processor upgrade you get has adequate cache--either 1 MB L2 or 1 MB L3.

And finally, you're running this computer with only 256 MB of memory, if you want to speed it up, I'd strongly advise you to buy an additional 512 MB DIMM at the same time you get the processor upgrade. The extra memory will help significantly.

Trevor

I would agree with trevors comments
 

about the quicksilver model ..that was an apple cheap shot .. but the processor scores are right in line with a 733 .. this 533 got a score of 65

The comment about memory is the key one .. ..trying to run X on less than 512 is asking for molassas I have found .. 768 is better ..1024 is better yet. look at the page out values in the activity monitor. That value wants to be zero and stay zero if possible from what I read. I have a 433 beige with 768 .. this box still has 256 as it came (I'm waiting on memory) .. and the difference is noticeable .. the slower machine rarely hits the paging file. This one does constantly.

The other item which I will note is the video card. I just got a 533 DA dual .. took one of those geforce 2 cards out and put in a radeon 9000 .. I wasn't about to spend the money on a 9800 for a model of this age .. even with running two monitors the video scores I got are triple what you have there.

Last item is the drive .. that score seems about right for a ATA 100 ...I also installed a SATA drive controller and a WD raptor drive on this box ..... the drive scores I got total 130 ..I known there are quicker setups by far ..but for a single drive its not too shabby and makes a big difference compared to what I have been used to using an ata 100.

Happy upgrading! Gary

I have to side with others and suggest your CPU might not be the main bottleneck at this point. I have a 800mhz Quicksilver, which is pretty similar to your system in its basic architecture and here are my Xbench results. The main difference being I have 1gb of RAM and a better graphics card, scoring a 94.37. I don't have any particular speed complaints about this machine; it's fast enough, though faster is always better. SATA might not be something you'd want to look into, but you should probably aim for 7200 Ultra133 ATA drives if one is not installed already.

...
 

I have seen a few g5 motherboards on ebay that are new for usually around $200 auction's end. There are 1.8ghz g5 processors on ebay for BIN price of $300. So for about the same cost as a powerlogix upgrade, I could go to a g5. Is there something I'm missing here? Are the powersupplies different with these? I saw a motherboard or excuse me a "Logic Board" today on ebay for a dual 2ghz g5 for $100. If I were to buy this board, could I install a 1.8 g5 onto or are they not compatible? Thanx for all the replies so far. I just finished ordering a 512 stick of ram so hopefully we'll get some life out of this thing soon enough. What about my g5 project guys??

No, you cannot plug a G5 CPU into your G4's motherboard board.
Furthermore, you're going to get burned if you buy a "G5 logic board" off eBay for $100.
As for buying all the pieces/part and installing them in your Quicksilver's chasis.. it might work, if you had enough fans. My guess, you'd end up spending more $ on your mod then you would if you just bought the real McCoy.

a G5 mobo for a 100 bucks on ebay?
 

*coughs* .... pulls out the stack of photocopy deeds for the ocean front acreage in arizona ...have a bunch of these ...*smile* only 50 a pop

So, texasmeat, can you tell us which PowerMac G4/733 you have?

Trevor

X Bench does have some quirks
 

in its reporting ... it correctly identified this as a 7410 nitro 533 x 2 .. yet the CPU score is virtually identical to a biege with a single 7410 - 533 .. tenth of a point difference. The total for this machine was 94 ..but does that include the second CPU or not? I dont know ..but I know I am happy with it ...except for the memory issue which was known.

*drum roll * ..so ... will it be quick silver ... or ocean front in arizona?

.......
 

Sorry, couldnt post while I was at work for some reason. I in no way was suggesting that I just grab a g5 processor and slap it on a g4 board. I was saying:
Buy a motherboard (g5)
Buy a g5 processor w heat sink
remove g4 board
Install g5 combo

I wanted to know if the power demands of the g5 are the same as the g4 (ie. can a 01' QS PMg4 733/256mb/80gighd power supply-succeed in powering the g5 combo I discussed earlier?

I'd like to see this link
 

for the G5 mobo on e-bay ...but as a self confessed upgrade/parts junkie who has been ripping macs apart and putting back together for years, I will take a stab at the short answer to your question without searching the net for the detailed answer ....:

No

From the information you have supplied, it would be my own opinion you will see the best improvements in the following order, short of getting another machine:

Memory
Video card
Processor
Drive

*places photocopy of deed on the desk .. and hands you a pin to stab your finger with ...just sign here*

Also .. what haxies have you installed ..
 

and what do you have running in the background? I just ran this. Same bus speed as yours, same amount of memory as yours, a slower processor than yours (but two of them) .. a different video card and a different drive.

Look at the memory value.

Results 93.28
System Info
Xbench Version 1.1.3
System Version 10.3.6 (7R28)
Physical RAM 256 MB
Model PowerMac3,4
Processor PowerPC G4x2 @ 534 MHz
Version 7410 (Nitro) v1.3
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 1024K @ 267 MHz
Bus Frequency 134 MHz
Video Card ATY,RV250
Drive Type WDC WD360GD-00FNA0
CPU Test 64.80
GCD Loop 59.55 2.33 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 79.93 289.04 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 44.17 1.28 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 63.98 993.26 Mflop/sec
Floating Point Library 104.38 4.18 Mops/sec
Thread Test 89.77
Computation 69.30 935.62 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 127.41 1.60 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 104.34
System 112.23
Allocate 408.93 266.74 Kalloc/sec
Fill 93.79 746.57 MB/sec
Copy 73.40 367.00 MB/sec
Stream 97.49
Copy 101.77 743.93 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 100.75 743.55 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 92.44 591.62 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 95.59 584.05 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 104.33
Line 87.46 2.23 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 97.37 6.85 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 100.99 2.33 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 92.60 1.01 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 181.17 2.95 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 66.64
Spinning Squares 66.64 46.64 frames/sec
User Interface Test 159.88
Elements 159.88 51.43 refresh/sec
Disk Test 129.31
Sequential 129.90
Uncached Write 144.30 60.15 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 125.59 51.43 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 116.90 18.51 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 136.11 54.99 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 128.73
Uncached Write 129.39 1.94 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 141.38 31.88 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 115.80 0.76 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 130.97 26.95 MB/sec [256K blocks]

800mhz overclock
 

here are some real world performance figures for anyone interested.
I overclocked my processor this morning and it has been stable in every way. I ran xbench and here are the results. I'm pleased for sure at the increase. All I did was remove a solder.

Results 62.66
System Info
Xbench Version 1.1.3
System Version 10.3.6 (7R28)
Physical RAM 256 MB
Model PowerMac3,5
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 800 MHz
Version 7450 (V'ger) v2.0
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 256K @ 800 MHz
Bus Frequency 134 MHz
Video Card GeForce2 TwinView
Drive Type WDC WD800JB-00ETA0
CPU Test 83.62
GCD Loop 87.51 3.42 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 89.72 324.44 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 97.28 2.83 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 96.49 1.50 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 60.32 2.41 Mops/sec
Thread Test 61.37
Computation 44.22 597.03 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 100.22 1.26 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 58.22
System 43.16
Allocate 447.06 291.62 Kalloc/sec
Fill 23.16 184.35 MB/sec
Copy 41.52 207.58 MB/sec
Stream 89.38
Copy 88.15 644.39 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 87.36 644.74 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 90.90 581.74 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 91.25 557.51 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 53.88
Line 43.59 1.11 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 61.10 4.30 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 61.05 1.41 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 44.93 488.21 beziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 67.34 1.10 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 46.26
Spinning Squares 46.26 32.37 frames/sec
User Interface Test 61.78
Elements 61.78 19.87 refresh/sec
Disk Test 100.85
Sequential 109.48
Uncached Write 126.09 52.56 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 131.37 53.80 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 90.16 14.27 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 100.99 40.80 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 93.48
Uncached Write 77.02 1.16 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 113.58 25.62 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 86.76 0.57 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 105.54 21.72 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Its the memory and the video that are coming up short
 

First Second

+ 6 % Results 59.16 Results 62.66

+ 16% CPU Test 71.97 CPU Test 83.62

- 4% Memory Test 60.17 Memory Test 58.22

+ 6% Quartz Graphics Test 50.65 Quartz Graphics Test 53.88

+ 7% OpenGL Graphics Test 43.36 OpenGL Graphics Test 46.26

+ 10% User Interface Test 56.13 User Interface Test 61.78

- 4% Disk Test 104.26 Disk Test 100.85

.......
 

Thanx Gary..

Ok, I have since this posting, upgraded my processor to the sonnet encore 1.4ghz processor (single). I also purchased the radeon 8500 mac edition graphics card. here are my results...

Results 134.10
System Info
Xbench Version 1.1.3
System Version 10.3.6 (7R28)
Physical RAM 256 MB
Model PowerMac3,5
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 1.4 GHz
Version 7455 (Apollo) v3.3
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 256K
L3 Cache 2048K
Bus Frequency 134 MHz
Video Card ATY,R200
Drive Type WDC WD800JB-00JJA0
CPU Test 142.46
GCD Loop 157.63 6.16 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 168.07 607.81 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 170.18 4.94 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 176.16 2.73 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 88.88 3.56 Mops/sec
Thread Test 114.28
Computation 81.33 1.10 Mops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 192.12 2.41 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 116.68
System 150.50
Allocate 926.42 604.31 Kalloc/sec
Fill 116.49 927.22 MB/sec
Copy 97.38 486.88 MB/sec
Stream 95.28
Copy 95.77 700.05 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 99.70 735.78 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 93.29 597.07 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 92.66 566.14 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 156.61
Line 132.17 3.36 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 134.76 9.48 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 151.48 3.49 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 173.55 1.89 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 218.47 3.56 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 128.93
Spinning Squares 128.93 90.22 frames/sec
User Interface Test 238.39
Elements 238.39 76.68 refresh/sec
Disk Test 105.02
Sequential 94.64
Uncached Write 48.75 20.32 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 136.60 55.94 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 142.39 22.54 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 134.96 54.53 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 117.95
Uncached Write 111.55 1.67 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 153.46 34.61 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 102.73 0.68 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 114.98 23.66 MB/sec [256K blocks]