Oh My God! No, Not A Mac!
 

That's almost what the hotel business center employee said when I walked in there to try to print something. She was sure it would not work, and furthermore, didn't want me connecting to their system because "I don't know what a Mac will do to our systems." :rolleyes: :mad:

So I didn't "connect." I used BT to send the print job, which really freaked her out. Apparently she didn't know anything about BT.

It was a bargain too, at only $1 per page. For that price you'd think they could afford to have educated people working there.

Wow that's pothetic, tell me the name of that place and I'll be sure to stay clear of them :p ;)

Seriously... fess up, where was this??

Grand Hyatt in San Diego.

Today I went in there and a sharply-dressed young guy not only knew I could just print like any other computer user, but wanted to touch and admire my PowerBook.

I've slowly been converting my family and friends to Macs for the past few years (ever since I got one for home...had been working on them for years). But I still get the occasional "but will I be able to do the same things on it?", or "are the any programs for it?" etc etc. Obviously the propaganda and misunderstandings from the very early days is still out there!

Dunno.... from my experience most Windows users are so annoyed with the security threats they constantly face that they look on the Mac OS with complete envy. The only criticism that the really clever ones make is "shame you can't play many games on a Mac".

Hahahaha True, so true!

What's BT?? Do you mean BlueTooth?

-Fernando

Yes.
---------
Since the above message is too short for the forum software's taste, I add several other commonly used abbreviations:
BT = BlueTooth
QT = QuickTime
RT = RealTime
UT = UniversalTime (i.e. Greenwich Time)
ET = ExtraTerrestrial
IT = InformationTechnology
MT = nothing
VT = Vermont

LOL!

BTW: BT can also mean British Telecom for most Europeans......

It is usually clear from the context.
E.g. "I used BT to connect to BT to download the QT of ET".

I've never met anyone who knew that the Mac OS has any security advantage, other than people who are already Mac users. Since the Windows issues are easily solved, people either know about them and solve them, or are blissfully ignorant of the whole thing.

The most clever argument I hear against Mac is the cost. It's hard to explain the value of the bundled capabilities and apps. Not impossible, just hard, since most people are used to buying a machine then buying/downloading a bunch of apps to add on.

Seriously? Wow. I've got quite a few clients, all on pcs, who regularly receive dozens of viruses via email. Norton AV filters em out ok, but these guys look on Symantec with the same sort of awe usually reserved for minor deities. And all of them are most definitely aware that Macs don't suffer from the same level of malicious code... possibly perhaps because as I waft in with my PowerBook and tell them so.....<snigger>

And the difference in cost is not just offset by bundled software, it is also offset by not having to buy a card for this and a card for that. The Mac is more capable out-of-the-box unless you buy your PC carefully (in which case you pay the cost up-front). That is, it can't be some trash e-Machines.

See this Linux Insider article for a careful look at this issue.

I didn't say there are no viruses, just that they don't affect you unless you're completely clueless. As for Norton though, I've billed out just over $6k this year fixing things that it failed to protect. That's not counting fixing issues it created. Biggest junk in the AV world. Check this out: http://www.grisoft.com

I don't preach Mac superiority unless it's applicable to their business and a switch could be made without too much pain. It's not easy to change some people from Windows 98 to XP, let alone to another OS altogether. It's also hard to show value for the extra cost for some people.

That's no longer valid. Nearly every motherboard made today includes all the same features as any Mac, except that maybe only half of them have Firewire built in (that ratio is growing though). On the other hand, all the good boards have more drive options like SATA plus ATA and the top 20% have RAID built into the hardware.

Check the above link for an up-to-date discussion of this. Here is an excerpt:
___________________
Macs Over Spec

If we look at these raw cost comparisons carefully, it becomes obvious that none of them really work because the Macs are consistently over spec relative to the PCs. The entry level eMac, for example, costs $350 (78 percent) more than the PC but is usable only to run Windows 98 and other software carried forward from previous generations.

Accept Dell's rather warmly endorsed package of the basic upgrades needed just to run XP comfortably, and the price difference falls to $190 (24 percent). That's still considerably less expensive than the eMac, but still short stereo, an RW/CD/DVD combo, graphics capabilities, wireless connectivity and dual FireWire ports. Adding everything except FireWire brings the price to rough parity but still leaves the PC underspecified relative to the eMac.

The same problems afflict the iMac vs. OptiPlex270 comparison. The base PC is $40 less expensive than the midrange iMac, but the PC lacks the iMac's connectivity and multimedia capabilities. It's possible to add these, but doing so pushes the PC well over the high end of the price range for the iMac.

In this case, you should be aware that the PC represents Dell's latest product generation while Apple has just stopped taking orders for the current iMacs in anticipation of introducing the next generation iMacs in September.

At the High End

The high-end comparison shows the result of the underlying difference in functional focus much more clearly. Like the iMacs, Apple's current G5 offering is actually well past its intended replacement date because of IBM's delays in shipping new CPUs. But the basic box is still a full $1,000 less expensive than Dell's newest Xeons.

As usual, however, the PC lacks the Mac's connectivity features. More importantly, my price comparison above omits the monitors for both because the recommended monitors are designed for different jobs and are not remotely comparable. Dell's 20.1-inch flat panel LCD, at $899 by itself or $700 if bundled with the Precision 670, is just a monitor.

Apple's cinema displays are more than that. They're intended to function at the core of digital production environments. Thus all three models, from the 20 inch to the 30 inch, have things like DVI and dual FireWire ports to enable plug-and-go video recording or media sharing.

In consequence, the price ranges from $1,299 to $3,299, or $600 more than Dell wants for the 20-inch unit, but the additional things they do can't be done with the Dell at any price.

The least unfair comparison, therefore, is obtained by adding the Dell monitor, as the lowest common denominator, to both machines, thereby penalizing Apple's price by the $199 difference between Dell's stand-alone and package price. Do that and the Mac comes in at $3,898 with the Dell at $4,709 -- making the Apple about 20 percent less expensive despite offering more features.

At the low end, therefore, the PC desktops are marginally less expensive than the Macs -- if you can do without their connectivity and multimedia capabilities -- and considerably more expensive if you can't. At the very high end, however, all of the design focus is on multimedia processing and the PCs simply aren't competitive from either hardware or cost perspectives.
_________________

how about mountain time?

that is just shameful that they thought it would bring down the other computers just by "infecting" the network with a mac.

However, mT needs no legend (explanation).

Just saw the December 2004 issue of Consumer Reports at B&N yesterday... on the cover it reads "59,940 reasons to buy a Mac" and the reviews inside are favorable to Macs, to the extent that under their recommendations, the first sentence reads something like, "first, consider a Mac." I may not have the exact verbage right (memory ain't what it used to be), but you get the picture...

How's that for moving up in the world??

That excerpt is nearly 100% inaccurate. This sort of misinformation is what keeps people away from Macs when they realize they've been lied to.

In fact, mT is already a legend which surpasses explanation. :D

Which sort of misinformation do you prefer? :)


Most of my Mac customer requests: How do I get (some application) to do this thing I want?

Most of my PC customer requests: My computer's not working. Fix it.

From both: I'm on a trip. Why can't I send email? Fix it.


Editor's note: some literary license employed...

heh heh. You gotta hand it to CAlvarez, he sure starts some lively threads around here.

The information about the price vs. hardware and what the limitations of the PC hardware are is wildly inaccurate. I wouldn't know where to start making points, since I didn't find anything I'd call completely true.

The eMac makes a fantastic attempt at matching Wintel pricing. I've recommended it to quite a number of people. However, most Wintel machines in that price range are better-featured than the eMac. But on the other hand, most people don't need those features. What they do need is a machine that does everything they want right out of the box, and that's what I try to stress to people. The hardware argument is invalid; you can buy more hardware for less money on Intel/AMD platforms any day.

The challenge for those of us trying to advise users on the best solution rather than the one *we* like is to learn which things will be of value to an individual, including things that the person doesn't know exist or that he will need in the future. What a lot of people end up doing is pushing glitzy features that the user doesn't need and/or doesn't understand. "The Mac has Firewire 800 and the PC has no Firewire at all" is completely irrelevant to the person who wants to write documents all day and nothing more.

I guess that's why combining a consultancy with a hardware (or software) sales business can create a conflict of interest. ;)


By the way, does 'more hardware' or 'cheaper hardware' equate to 'better hardware' in your experience?

I agree on the conflict, which is why I don't "sell" hardware. I may do the purchasing on behalf of others, but I get paid by the hour to do the shopping, with no profit on the hardware. They either pay direct or pre-pay the actual costs. It troubles me greatly to see people getting sold on things primarily based on what a vendor sells or makes profit from. I deal via Insight and Newegg, which means I can get absolutely anything, and with no profit built in the customer knows I have no hidden motives.

I've found only a marginal corelation between price/quantity/quality really. These days any of the mainline PC components are very good, unless you get into the truly cheap stuff. Apple of course always has solid quality. One of the things I tell people often is that you KNOW what you are getting if you buy Apple, Sun, HP, IBM (not recommended, but you do get consistency), and a few others. With off-the-shelf hardware you either buy exactly what I tell you, or pay by the hour when the excrement hits the air oscillation device...

Buying HP is the closest comparison I know of to buying Apple. They are consistent in hardware, and offer equally-good support. I would never recommend Dell, Gateway, or the other off-brand machines in comparison with Apple and the other main brands. You can save about $200 if you buy a low-end HP as compared to an eMac, but you'll pay more once you add the software that Apple includes, not to mention the time to get it installed. And especially not to mention the time spent if it doesn't work, and while most of the time it does work fine, I have to nod toward Apple for having a near-perfect bundle.

Want to make your IT guy insane? Buy 25 machines that are specified "the same" but end up having little differences in hardware and driver sets. That's what I see from Dell, Gateway, and many others. Apple, HP, IBM, Compaq, etc stay the same within any given model line.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought you did. Your approach is very similar to most of the other independent consultants I know.

The "more/cheaper" vs. "better" thing was a bit of a trick question, of course. "More" and "cheaper" are things which are, at least in part, quantifiable. "Better" is a qualitative judgment which is really only meaningful after having some real experience with the various items being weighed.

It seems to me that people like the one described way back at the start of this thread really only have experience with Apple products of the past, which compared to PCs of the present, sure aren't 'better.' And I was a contented user of System 7 for many years.

So how does a company like Apple give people a chance to get some experience with the current product family? You got it - brick and mortar Apple Stores, in all sizes, shapes, and eventually, locations. That's the one strategy which may actually work to overcome the years of Apple's marketing neglect. And, unlike, say, Gateway for example, people may discover a product which is 'better' and not merely which commodity item is 'more' or 'cheaper,' as the mainstream PC market has pretty much sunk to these days, Alienware notwithstanding. Or, they may not.

OK, enough philosophizing for now. ;)

No implication taken, just figured you were opening it for discussion. I used to sell and consult, and while I tried hard to stay objective, I found that customers didn't feel completely comfortable. Since I stopped, I find that I get nearly zero objection to my recommendations.

You're right on the Apple stores, and they sure made them pretty. I may not have made the full switch without one where I could feel, touch, and ask. I may still just be using the iMac to play around on, though honestly, I was doing more and more "real work" on it just because I liked the interface. I send a lot of people to the stores to look.

Another fantastic move is having a low-cost machine. I think they can push it further into low cost to get newbies interested. Right now when I tell people to consider a Mac I have to try to justify the price difference. If it was less, it would be easier.

What do they need to do next? Stop price-fixing. It nearly kept me from buying the PowerBook. You have to go to gray sources to get better than retail pricing. I try to buy local, but not when the out-the-door price is $2900 vs. $2445. I felt insulted that retailers had that much extra margin. The internet sources are only "gray" because of Apple's price-fixing contract, not because they are shady or unreliable, so I continue to refer people there to buy the product.

You'd think after so many years of failing to sell an arguably superior product they'd learn something about trying to keep too much control on the market.

Here's something interesting... I'm finding that people in the tech field are moving towards Apple products too, albeit slowly and with some fear. Even people like me who support and work in a Windows world. At a trade show last week I had three people who develop/support Windows products ask me about the PowerBook, and said they planned to follow up with a visit to an Apple store.

I don't think there is as much of a margin as you think there is for the official Apple retailers. Here's an excerpt from a SiliconValley.com story (April 2004) relating to complaints from authorized Apple retailers:
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/sil...ey/8500793.htm

So, it seems that at that time, the authorized retailers were making a profit of $330 on that PB. If grey-market dealers sell it for less, there must be a reason - e.g. that it is a refurbished unit, etc.

You are correct that resellers' profit margins are slim to none. How do I know? I worked at one for 2+ years as a salesman and technician. The silicon valley article, at the time, was exactly correct in the pricing for the 17" powerbook and how much official independent resellers paid.

It truly is a sad time for the independent apple reseller business.

It aint necessarily so...
 

Be careful to note that you are perhaps doing all this from an American perspective.

Outside of the States Apple charges a hefty premium on their machines and so restricts the user's options that modifying and adding to them really blows out prices badly.

On top of that if you don't like what Apple is offering you still have to buy it and throw it away. Things like Modem, keyboard and mouse. Cards that actually support mutiple monitors but Apple deliberately cripples to just offer mirroring on low end Macs. Low spec RAM that occupies one of 2 slots and has to be removed to upgrade. All this punishes the Mac customer.

PC users will say, quite rightly, that the great advantage of PCs is that you can get very good machines built to order for less than buying from the big name dealers. That is how I got my excellent PC after finally being totally exasperated at Apple's tardiness with OSX and lack performance.

Also PCs offer great opportunities for bargain hunting for peripherals etc which you hardly ever see for Macs. I've got some great cards, scanners, graphics tablets, keyboards etc for the PC. Since lots of hardware has to have unique drivers for the Mac, or just is physically incompatible, we still get stuck with a fat bill for official Mac upgrades or take the chance that it just doesn't work.

Lets not embarass Apple by asking how the "better built" Mac has such a miserably short warranty (my PC has 3 years) and such expensive AppleCare.

When I mentioned all this to an Apple employee, he justified Apple's pricing with; "Well on BMWs the tyres are extra!" I said he was buying his BMW with my money and if I switched to PCs maybe I could afford a BMW. Didn't like that at all.

I think it's safe to guess that most people post from the perspective they are most familiar with. I don't think it would be practical to qualify it in every post.

My perspective, from the U.S. but also based on a little time spent in and dealing with Europe (both the UK and the continent) while my wife's mother was a pianist there for two decades, is that most things were more expensive there than in the U.S., and generally harder to come by. Which makes sense given the population density and also to some degree the VAT structure.

There are exceptions of course, for example in the area of cameras and personal electronics there was a lot of direct importing from the Asian manufacturing locations, which helped keep the prices manageable. I doubt that Apple will ever be able to compete with that on price.

I certainly have heard horror stories about Apple dealerships in Europe. I wonder if a stronger direct presence via the Apple Stores will do anything to ease that in the future?



edit- by the way, here in Frostbite Falls we find it easier to glean a person's perspective when they actually put useful information in their profiles. :p

Now there is an argument: the comparison between like-price machines rather than comparing the price it takes to improve a cheaper slug up to specs similar to the (e)Mac. The previous fuzzy "That excerpt is nearly 100% inaccurate. This sort of misinformation is what keeps people away from Macs when they realize they've been lied to." just appeared to be hand-waving and so was not of much use. I started a reply to it earlier and by the time I finished, this later response of yours was there and so I deleted my original request for a better argument. Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I had heard a little of that before, but I wasn't aware that it was prohibative. I wonder why Apple does that. My post was not intended to be a blanket answer, I am just rankled by hearing old recycled arguments like cost and software availability (how many versions of hangman do you need) and so I wanted to input a bit of re-examining. BTW, I'm not denying the greater actual software availability in some categories, just that it is not a meaningful argument for most people.

I never did like those BMW comparisons that have shown up in the past several years with regard to Apple vs Microsoft. I think these odd comparisons of niche players were spawned in desperation by the continual business media reports of Apple's imminent demise. However, talking about the tires being extra is going too far.

Hmmm. There's certainly a huge buzz here in the UK about the new London Apple Store (and the prospective Birmingham one too). But I can't help wondering about the Authorised Apple Retailers in my region - three of them have gone out of business in the last two years because of increasing overheads & low margins. Let's hope that the Apple Stores don't tread on the toes of the existing AARs.....

CAlvarez: Well, for that matter, "The PC has a 2 GHz processor and a 360 gig hard disk and a gig of RAM, and the used eBay Performa going for $50 only has a 180 MHz CPU and 64 MB of RAM and a 2 gig HD" is pretty close to irrelevant if all you're doing is word processing. Any computer faster than a Quadra is overkill for writing letters and reports. Nevertheless most people buy far more computer than they need.

Meanwhile, all things legitimately considered, FireWire is a good thing for the average consumer to have in their computer because of digital cameras and camcorders and whatnot. The person who doesn't use one today might end up with one within the next couple years.

I agree with that too. If people honestly just need basics, and I know plenty of those, then I recommend not spending money for things they'll never use. Therefore I recommend used PCs, older iMacs, or the Lindows machines from Wal-mart ($200 for a 1GHz Celeron).

Firewire sounds like a great idea, but it's quickly becoming irrelevant with the advent of USB 2. Yes, I know Firewire is still superior to USB 2, but consumers don't, and thus all consumer-grade video camera makers are moving to that since it's cheap and ubiquitous.

The pricing is something I can't figure out. I'm sure there can't be a huge margin, but the fact remains that reliable internet dealers are selling the top of the line PB for many hundreds less than Apple and the local retailers. Like I said, I try to buy local, but...

PowerBook, $2799
Tax, $223.92
Total, $3022.92

Internet price, $2399
Overnight shipping, $46
Total, $2445

Today the price is down to $2335. How can they afford to do it? I don't know, but mine was factory sealed, and when I call Apple they don't have any issues with the serial number. I ordered at 3pm on a Tuesday and had it at 10am on Wednesday. All the clients I've referred to them are happy with their Mac buys.

They do - and they will.

Here's the perspective from Australia.

US Apple Store
G5 Dual 2.5Ghz US$2999 = A$3999
PBook 17" Super US$2799 = A$3732
iPod photo 60Gb US$599 =A$799
(at conservative A$ = US$0.75)

Australian Apple Store
G5 Dual 2.5Ghz A$5299 Difference = A$1300
PBook 17" Super A$4499 Difference = A$767
iPod photo 60Gb US$949 Difference = A$150

If Apple is a truly global player let me buy from the Apple USA website and I'll happily pay for the freight myself.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of the iLife features of Macs are not available to Australians and iTune Store is still over the horizon. Whilst we have no Apple stores here yet, Apple has forbidden its AppleCentre retailers here from even adopting the Apple Store layouts.


NB A$ is currently trading at close to US$0.76.
The Australian price includes a 10% GST refundable if claimed by a business, otherwise not.

Love it.

It's amazing today how people get so hung up on MHz and HD size... it's this need to have bigger, faster, better all the time. I just switched over an entire law office (mind you, law firms live in the PC world) to the Mac platform. They understood that for word processing, email & web, and a few other minor applications, it wasn't necessary to spend thousands of dollars for each machine. They bought entry level iMacs (with a little extra RAM) and were able to afford a new machine for every single employee. Now all the office computers run beautifully, rarely (if ever) crash, and are still WAY more powerful than what anyone needs...

That's a large discrepancy, no doubt about it. I'd take the trip instead too.

Plenty of US resellers will be happy to ship to Australia. I buy things from Europe and Asia all the time if the pricing is favorable (or many times for things you can't buy here). I sell to Australians on eBay regularly, as it appears there are a number of things you can't buy at reasonable prices down there.

It's a global economy, whether Apple wants it to be or not.

Given the state of geographical knowledge in the USA, I wonder how many of them accidently ship to Austria?

Just kidding.

I used to ship from the States but had some unpleasant experiences with US Resellers. If I did it again I'd want to do it face to face and checking the inventory.

Besides which I could claim the trip as a tax deduction. No Aussie customs official would believe I flew from Australia to Hawaii for the sun, beaches or the food s:-)

Tell ya what, I'll pick up a machine from the low-cost reseller I use, inspect it, and you send me a plane ticket...

Tell you what, you stay where you are, be my agent and I'll keep you well lubricated with a few cases of good Coonawarra reds.

s:-)

I re-ship motorcycle products to people in Europe and Canada all the time, I'd be happy to help if I could. I think most people don't understand how easy it is to ship internationally now, which is why lots of the motorcycle people refuse to do it. So seriously, if I could help in procuring a system and shipping it, would be happy to.

I bought my 17" PowerBook last March -- from MacWarehouse in the USA. The brand new product had not yet arrived in Norway, where I live. The US purchase saved me approx. $1400. With an additional $600 saved on a Nikon CoolPix 5700, and more bucks saved on two iPods, MS Office and other software, I was really happy.

A bizarre detail... I’m sure most of you have seen the TV ads with Bruce Willis: "The future takes VISA". Don’t believe it! MacWarehouse absolutely refused to accept my VISA card since I had a Norwegian address, even when I told them they didn’t have to ship to goods (to a Massachusetts address) until they had actually received payment. So I had to wire them the money.
(By the way, this refusal is NOT dictated by VISA.)

The savings basically paid the airfare for me, my wife and daughter, including two nights hotel in Boston.

For my next upgrade I may just add a few items and purchase them all in the Apple Store in Honolulu, Hawaii -- stopping at the beach on the way.

:)
ArcticStones


PS The VAT in Norway is 24 %. Anyone beat that?

The Visa refusal is understandable; there is nearly no protection for the merchant on this transaction, which can come back to bite them up to 60 days later. It's a high-risk item because it's more of a tradeable commodity than gold or diamonds.

I accept cards for online transactions as well as in-person, and I've had a couple close calls. Had one I absolutely knew would be a scam, but Paypal told me to go ahead and ship it, and when it turned out to be a scam, they covered it under the Seller Protection plan. Otherwise I would have been SOL if it had been a regular merchant account.

My motorcycle friends run into the same thing, so they just Paypal the money to me and I pay for and ship the product. It's annoying, but a hazard of business being so "virtual." It makes it easier to be a thief.

:eek: So I guess I should stop whining that when I moved recently my sales tax rate went from 7.8% to 8%... And in the US, when we buy from another state, there is no sales tax (legally it is still due, but it is not enforced).

To clarify ArcticStones' Visa issue, the Visa billing address (Norway) didn't match the delivery address (Massachusetts). This could easily be exploited by a credit card thief, and the policy of all shippers is to decline it as suspicous.

As far as sales tax goes, isn't it such a huge variable in the States? You have a layering of Federal, State and even Local taxes that make it hard to predict a final price. Not to mention the tip when eating, in a hotel or taxi or even someone handles your bags. This is highly degrading for travellers from Australia, where we have one GST of 10% (included in the price) on everything except food you cook yourself (jokingly called the thermometer test). Tips are purely optional and mostly not done, because people are paid a living wage here.

Ah well different strokes for different folks.

The sales tax varies by locality. There is no federal sales tax in general. Sales taxes are apportioned to and levied by the states, counties, and cities. It is collected as one sum by a merchant. A couple of states have no sales tax, and some have no income tax. It does vary, but generally is within 6%-8%.

Some cities further like to rip off the traveler, since who can they complain to, they don't vote. There are special taxes for hotel rooms, rental cars, and such. For example, if you rent a car in my fair city, you also contribute about $5 to one of our billionaires in the form of a stadium tax. Never mind if you never visit the stadium to watch his loser teams play, and then pay another $50 or so, or not.

Tipping is an interesting thing. My general view with limited world travel is that where tipping is not done, food costs more. The money comes from somewhere. I agree on the issue of knowing the local customs. You might want to buy a book if you ever go to Japan, they seem to have the most convoluted and strict customs.

But back on taxes...federally the average consumer doesn't see much on sales taxes. There is an excise ("luxury" tax) on gasoline, tires, and other items. This is bundled into the prices however, paid for by the manufacturers. Normal sales tax is added at the time of sale.

Tipping is really bad practice, often not optional and frequently demanded despite cr@p service. When I was waiting as a student I found it was applied on mood rather than real service. Someone showing off to his girlfriend, a family man enjoying a birthday with his kids or when I was a raw beginner given out of sympathy. The really rich were tight arses, demanded extra service or priority because they were going to a show and then gave nothing.

Thankfully it plays little part here except occassionally in a restaurant if a waiter has been very nice and even then the waiters share it amongst themselves. I remember an American tourist thinking all his birthdays had come at once when I told him he didn't have to tip.

I think our restaurants are very good and very cheap compared with the States. The reason you may find food cheaper in the States is the huge subsidies paid to your farmers, the low wages paid to staff and may I be unkind and suggest quantity figures higher in your thinking than quality.

Just to clarify the VISA issue: MacWarehouse (and other vendors) have an absolute policy against accepting foreign credit cards. Actually it had nothing to do with the delivery address being my holiday (father-in-law’s) address.
Since I had to wire the money, I chose a well-known reliable vendor (which I assumed MacWarehouse was), rather than the cheapest. I did not want to get screwed. The cheapest (apple-4-less) had a payment address in Romania, and no telephone no. at their "US warehouse"...

Nevertheless I did have a considerable headache with MacWarehouse. I had an absolute agreement as to when the PowerBook would be delivered. It was clear-cut since I was only in the USA for 2 weeks.

When I arrived: no Mac. I called them and was informed that I had been waitlisted. "It would arrive sometime in the next 6 weeks". It cost me a couple of hours on the phone, and I finally had to demand to talk to the head of their shipping department. "No, I was not interested in having it shipped to Norway (even free of charge)." The aforementioned 24%... I had to insist that we had an absolute binding contract, explain my travel situation in detail, and stress the fact that I had NO leeway.

Luckily she cut through the red tape, promised to ship me one of the PowerBooks that they just, in fact, received from Apple that day. I received everything a couple of days before my return to Norway.

Best regards,
ArcticStones

PS I was not aware of the 60 days thing in regards to VISA. Does this mean that, theoretically, a disgruntled customer can rescind payment at a restaurant (minus the tip) once he’s home, safely out of reach of the restaurateurs? :rolleyes:

Theoretically, yes. In the US, credit cards offer a lot of protection for the customer since they can dispute the validity of a charge based on not having received the product/service promised or expected. In the US there is a "warranty of merchantability" implied on every sale. Meaning that the customer can expect that a product or service will work as intended/advertised. The credit card is a way to enforce that, and I've used it once when I was given shoddy service on an auto repair.

The restaurant thing could generate an interesting conversation with the card provider...

OK, thanks for the clarification.
You see, I thought once my money was in MacWarehouse’ hands ...well, that it was in their hands. I was actually offering to prepay them, with my Norwegian VISA, about 6-7 weeks in advance of shipping.

Best,
ArcticStones