The ultimate PDA/phone
 

Nothing Mac-related here, but I thought some of the other geeks would enjoy this. I've been waiting for this device to be available for about 15 years now. Ever since I picked up the first Apple Newton, I've said that this is exactly the device that would be the ultimate PDA. Finally.

http://www.welectronics.com/gsm/I%20...pc%20pda2k.jpg

It's got 128MB of RAM and 48MB of internal storage memory. That's a hell of a lot when you consider the average Pocket PC program takes 300-700k of storage and 500k-2MB of working memory. I've loaded it up with a slew of extras and have yet to make a dent in the memory or storage capability. With a 1GB SD card, I can also carry hours of music and other fun stuff.

It has built-in Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and GPRS (cellular wireless data). It can roam across any of those, based on your preferences and configuration. For example, at home and the office it pickes up the wireless, which lets me use it for both data and VoIP phone calls. Once I leave that coverage, it will switch automatically to GPRS for data and GSM for cellular calls. Of course it will also notify me if foreign wireless networks are available, and let me connect to them too. With T-Mobile as my GPRS/GSM carrier, I also get free use of their hotspots. This is an interesting move on their part, since it lets me avoid using cell minutes by using VoIP instead. It can do the same if it finds a BT access point, like I have at home, and save power at the cost of a little bit of speed.

With BT and GPRS, I can use it as a wireless modem for the laptop. Since it syncs with the Mac, I have all the same data in it that I have in Entourage, and can make changes on either side to be synchronized later. It will sync by USB, Bluetooth, or Wi-Fi.

With the automatic connectivity and auto-connection to VPN servers, I can have my corporate (Exchange-based) e-mail deliverd to it automatically. Same with POP/IMAP, though it eats up a lot more battery power since it has to poll regularly, rather than the "push" notification it gets from Exchange.

On the downside, the BT stack is a little buggy right now. Sometimes it just loses the headset connection. A quick reset fixes that.

I've always looked forward to the next great PDA, and more recently, PDA/phone. But now I'm out of things to ask for. I got what I said I wanted 15 years ago, that goal never really changed.

Sweet! The power to crash and burn, all in the palm of my hand!

CAlvarez,

I have preference for Linux based PDA phone. Please provide user feedback in due course as the OS from the darkside tends to crash quite often, especially below Version 3.

:D :rolleyes: :cool:

I've been using Pocket PCs since version 3. The crashing mythology is just that--myth. My Palm locked up far more often than the Pocket PCs ever have, and I'm pretty abusive to them (both in the amount of software I load including betas, and physical abuse). The PPC-Phone that I just replaced was the same company's previous incarnation, and it never locked up.

The BT bugginess is really bothering me, though I think I've figured out how to prevent it from affecting my headset. I've also got some conflict issues with software that was written for the last version of the OS. There are only two other devices that I know of on the market now with this new OS version.

Linux on a PDA would be fine if you could actually do anything with it. So far it doesn't support PDA phones, nor any of the apps that I run on my PDA. Seems like a fantastic solution to a problem that doesn't exist. For people that just want a PIM, might as well just stick with Palm OS then.

I still imagine what Apple could have created if Jobs wasn't an egotistical moron and hadn't killed the Newton.

For the love of pancakes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton

Upon reflection, my response was hasty, it could have been S. Jobs that killed the Newton, Inc. company. I apologize for my quick flame. However, since Apple was financially in the toilet at the time and there was no need to waste money, the Newton was killed officially killed. I do not attribute this to either moronic or egocentric behavior. I attribute this to good business sense. So your post still grates on my nerves.

Personally, I don't want anything running Windows anything. I'll let the LCD run Windows.

The pocket PC version actually does a pretty good job with their new 2003 format, I agree. But I do also agree that many enthusiasts would love to see the equivilant of that design in the "iTransport" world. The design even looks apple in nature, its almost sick. :)

My only problem is it runs windblows.....

Damn, I missed it, you edited too quick... There was a great book written about the rise and fall of the Newton, and I was paying close attention to the developments at the time. I actually had contact with the development group, various application developers, and even Eveready for a new battery design for it (try talking with battery geniuses for a couple hours--it'll give you a big headache).

Jobs always thought the Newton was a bad idea, from day one. The guy with the supposed vision at Apple just never believed that people would want to carry computers in their hands. He tried to kill it a number of times before, and upon his return, he not only killed it but refused to sell the rights to anyone. Hmm, Apple is in financial trouble, they have patents and copyrights worth cash, and he says that he absolutely won't sell them AND that Apple absolutely will never make another Newton.

Yup, brilliant.

And you see nothing short-sighted, reactive, or non-sensical about that position...? I mean, who cares what it runs, if it does the job?

Damm, that's cool!

What's going on with that keyboard? Does it slide out of the body or something? It looks like two versions in the picture.

But it doesn't do the job. I have to deal with enough crashing inconsistent windows machines at work, the last thing I need is to carry around a blood pressure raising OS on a PDA.

I will continue to use and cherish my Newton 2100 until I find something that works better.

Read my lips. The Pocket PC does not crash. Simple as that. There are rare occasional problems, and my 2100 had rare occasional problems. Nothing different. Except you can get new software for it and use the wireless internet connection, phone, Bluetooth, etc. I hung on to the 2100 for a very long time, but finally gave it up for better connectivity.

The body of the PDA is split all the way. About 1/3 is the top/screen and 2/3 is the bottom/body. The KB is part of the main body. You slide the screen up and the keyboard is exposed. It is lighted, and actually more usable than it looks. I'm a firm believer in handwriting recognition (first developed on the Newton, then they went to work on the PPC when Jobs fired them). The KB helps with techie stuff that the HWR doesn't recognize properly.

What's the price range?



edit - RTFP, Craig. :o

Is it a touch screen?

Well, I was keeping up with all this way back when, and the Newton never got very far before Jobs was "outed." Back in those days, Apple had plenty of money; they didn't mind spending on R & D that wasn't directly related to profit, but might pan out one day. When Jobs returned around 97, it was a very different story, and Newton was a huge cash drain. The name of the game was simplify and improve the product line, trim wherever possible, and cut out the non-productive ventures. Given Newton's awful history from a business standpoint and the emergence of other PDA providers, it made sense to say that Apple was out of the Newton business.

Why they didn't sell patents and copyrights . . . who knows? Maybe some of those would have given competitors advantages in other areas? Maybe they weren't worth much, financially? Maybe he thought the technology could be used in other ways in the future? It's hard to know for sure, but the least convincing hypothesis, imo, is that it was Jobs' egocentricity (note - I'm not saying he is without such). He made too many very good business decisions around that time.

Horrible design, too metalic and no soul [mind you, just my taste].

Still in posession of a Newton 110, 2 Newton 120 and an eMate 300, all working and in mint condition.



Stetner, I envy you...I desire your Newton 2100. If you ever think of selling, please remember me... :)

.

u got it! try this instead:

http://www.hkpug.org/images/xplorer_m28.jpg


Hardware Specification
Description
Comment
O/S Palm OS 5.4
Processor ARM 9 OMAP
Flash Memory 32 MB
SDRAM Memory 32 MB
RF Module Dual band GSM/GPRS 900/1800GSM/
GPRS terminal Type BGPRS class 10 capable
LCD Display Size: 2.2” TFT Max Color:
260KResolution: 176 x 220 pixelsBlack
Light: YES Sound Up to 44KHz 16 bit StereoSupport
volume controlSupport MP3 playbac
k Ring Tone l Support 40-chord
polyphonic melody playback
(software emulation)l Support background melody
playbackl Support user-select melodies for different events (e.g. alarm, warning tones)l Support 8 levels of volume control Camera l Featuren 300K pixeln Captured image size Active pixel resolution: 640x480)n Support White Balance n Support Exposure Control:n Support back-lighting (??) capture by weighted/spot exposure
Voice Recording Built-in
Vibrator Built-in vibrator
Speaker Dual Speaker
Video Capture Support Mpeg 4, 3GPP
External I/O SD/ MMC Card Slot
SIM Card 3V
IrDA Hardware support IrDA 1.2Speed: 115.2 kbps
Connection / Port 18 Pin I/O include USB, DC Jack, UARTMICHeadset JackIrDA
Dimension 106mm x 50.8mm x 23.5mm130.5mm x 50.8mm x 23.5mm (slide up)
Weight 132g (including battery and stylus) Battery life
Max Standby time: 100 hrsMax Talk time: 210 minsMax MP3 playing: 240 minsMax Video playing or recording: 240 minsMax Voice playing or recording: 240 mins
Weight 132g (including battery and stylus)

The catch 22 is that you'd need VPC to sync it. So i guess in the end it's 6 of 1 1/2 dozen of the other right?

Regardless of the Palm vs. PPC argument, that device doesn't come anywhere near the PDA2k in terms of memory and capabilities. Also, it's not yet compatible with any systems in the US (note the frequencies are Asian and European only). I'd like to see more Palm-based phones in the US, even though I dislike the Palm OS personally. Palm makes a fantastic PIM for users who don't want a full-blown computer in their hand, and this would let me move people towards more productive mobile solutions. The Treo has too many oddball issues and limitations. The latest one may be good, I haven't tried it, since the others have been such a problem.

When I sold my Newton I got a Palm, of course, because I bought into the "MS sucks and crashes" argument. First a VIIx (integrated wireless), then a Vx with the Minstrel wireless modem sled. I quickly learned that Palms crash a lot of you ask them to do anything more than the very basic things. After much frustration, I tucked in my pride and went ahead and gave Pocket PC a try (iPAQ 3235). Never looked back. I felt like an idiot for letting my prejudices keep me from buying the best solution on the market.

This phone is pricey, $900, and has major Bluetooth bugs in the software. Interesting note...they used a third-party BT stack, and it's crap. The previous model by the same company (which I had before this) used the MS stack and it worked perfectly.

I would suggest to people that base their solution decisions on bigotry and myth to set those aside and look at how things really work, and how they solve business needs. I learned that lesson, and am more productive for it. That's how I'm now a PowerBook user in a Windows world, despite being surrounded by anti-Mac bigotry and myth.

You mean like my PowerBook, which actually is metal? I happen to like that kind of look, and they certainly look beautiful together. They have the same metal finish and color.

For $900 I can carry lots of quarters if I need to make a call. :D

I told you, it's just my taste...I prefer smooth black curves anytime :)

:p What's even worse, is being digital GSM only, in the rural parts of AZ I have to resort to the quarters method... Of course, the value in this is having all of your business data in one place and integrated (contacts list tied to calls for billable time, for example, track work for your contacts, even record calls relative to contacts, etc). The recording saved my butt this week in relation to an auto accident and insurance issue; I was able to prove what I said rather than what they claimed I said. The liars were very pissed off that I recorded them and could prove them liars.

Question 1: What about the Sony-Ericsson P900 or P910i? It’s tri-band, has Bluetooth, excellent PDA functions and visually intuitive menus, writes e-mail on the go, has a QWERTY keyboard on the flip, runs Java programs (that you can write yourself), handles MP3 and MPEG4, and has and integrated camera/video. The P910i even has handwriting recognition! (Haven’t used it, but it looks promising.)

Question 2: If they can fit 4 Gb into the puny iPod Mini, why can’t someone introduce a PDA/phone that has, say, a built-in 1 Gb disk? (This is my biggest gripe.)

Just asking...
ArcticStones

I'm playing with the HP hx4705 now. A PDA with a VGA screen, and I've got a 5GB drive in it right now. Didn't come with it; fits into the CF slot. Sharp has introduced a PDA with a HD inside, but it only runs Linux, so it's got very limited use and marketability.

The downside to the Sony, Motorola, and other Symbian/Linux/proprietary phone/PDA devices is lack of add-on software. If you like what's built in, go for it. I just have yet to find a PIM that's as well-featured as Pocket Informant. With a hectic schedule, big task list, lots of travel, and lots of contacts, I need a powerful way to tie it all together. All of the built-in PIM tools are very light-duty.

The phone that I started this thread about is rather problematic right now due to a third-party Bluetooth stack. Unfortunately the manufacturer went this route instead of the stable and reliable MS Bluetooth software. It makes headset connections flaky. So while the hardware and OS are fantastic, the BT issues make it very problematic for someone who spends the day on the phone and absolutely needs a headset. They said a fix is coming in three weeks.

I think it's going to be time soon to just figure out where to draw the line between a PDA and a mini computer until the 2 actually converge.

The O2 PPC is kind of a brick, but it does have alot of horsepower behind it.

I mean, if they added a phone feature to this would it be the ultimate pda/phone?

Kind of a brick?!? Have you seen one in person? Held it? And which version are you talking about, there are three of them now. The latest (pictured in this thread) is slightly larger/heavier than the other two, but those were sleek, small, and light.

The OQO is just a small computer. There's a HUGE difference between a standard computer that you can squeeze into your hand and a computer designed to be used that way. The PPC OS has gone through many generations of being streamlined for a handheld device that you can use on the run. The thought of trying to use Windows XP while running between flights is just ludicrous.

BTW, you can add a phone to the OQO via a CF GSM/GPRS card. It would still suck though, as a PDA. It certainly makes a nice replacement for a laptop for some people. In any case, this is just going to be a niche market. For me the OQO could not replace my PowerBook because of the small screen and KB size, and could not replace my Pocket PC because it's not geared toward being used as a handheld.

I guess the true ultimate PDA-phone would be the hx4705 I picked up today with a phone built in. I could add a CF phone card, but it doesn't integrate the audio, so you can't use a BT headset, just wired. It would work nicely for data though.

Yes
No
O2 Xda II

And yes, i think it's huge.I havn't carried anything 190g's in my pocket since the early 90's.

But after reading your comments on PPC's I was thinking about waiting for this.

Any thoughts?

The Magician is going to be the first of the devices targeted toward people that think a PDA is too big. This trend is what's going to kill the "smart phone" market, which I think is only transitional. It's reasonably powerful just less so than the top devices on the market. Most people will be very happy with it, and it's as powerful as the best devices from a year ago.

Personally I don't understand the size/weight issue, since the tiniest phone on my belt is no different from the largest phone on my belt. But then, I carried a Newton for so many years, and that was huge.

The VGA screen on the hx4700 is very nice. Great to be able remote to a machine from the handheld and see the whole screen. Admin work is much easier than it used to be.

Does the touchscreen on a PocketPC go out of whack? I've owned 4 Palms now and every single one of them, the touchscreen goes to hell eventually and I find I have to constantly re-calibrate the digitizer (sometimes 6 times a day! ARGH!). This alone might convince me to move on from the Palm platform..

Yeah, I remember that with my Palm. I also recall that happening on some of the Netwons.

No, I've never once had to recalibrate a PPC screen. Surprisingly, even when you rotate the screen back and forth a lot it stays calibrated.

This iPAQ I'm playing with now is so impressive (unfortunately it's not a phone). The VGA 4" display is just amazing. The 624MHz processor is pretty damn nice too. Wireless is fantastic. The Motorola phone I'm using it with is another (very annoying) story.

ok - u got me. It looks like I'm gonna take the plunge & go PPC.

Now I'm starting from square1, so what do I need 2 know? (OSX syncing related, as I can find the Palm->PPC switching stuff NEwhere) (Unless some1's just got some free time & and nothing better to do of course ;) )

An interesting note on Pocket PC crashing... Today I got an e-mail from a user that I support. She complained about her three year old Cassiopeia Pocket PC doing strange things. I mentioned a few things to check and noted that at three years old with daily use, it might just be worn out. I also suggested that she do a reset on it. She answered, "How do I do that?" Turns out it has never been rebooted in THREE YEARS.

Yeah, those Pocket PCs crash all the time...

Seen it in person, held it, XDAIIs.

8 my words.

Own 1 now. ^_^