If I Bend Over, Will Someone Please Kick Me?
 

Why, oh why did I go back to MFI and engage in my very first (and I hope last) flame war with the obsessives over in OS X Talk? I can't believe I let myself get drawn in--me, who longs for the quiet life--but my ridiculous sense of justice in a forum gone mad overtook my better judgement.

Sigh. I think Thundarr deserves a medal--he still goes over there and fights the good fight. Me, I give up. Again.

Now excuse me while I go bonk my head against the wall. (thunk! thunk!)

Andy

Re: If I Bend Over, Will Someone Please Kick Me?
 

I popped back in to say goodbye to Brad, looked around, and even saw you going at it with the gang, Andy.

So here you go: B-O-O-T!! :D

"Keep coming back, it works if you work it."

in college, I once asked a girl I was dating why she ran marathons...she said "because it feels so good when I stop".

;)

"Thank you, sir. May I have another?"

---
BTW, Andy, look at the bright side. You could have to work with those people. Don't you feel better now? :p

Phil--ouch! Thank you!

Craig, that is a frightening perspective. Yow!

Not trying to be a complainer or or anything, but I work by myself these days and as much as I like it I find Internet forums a nice distraction. It's fun and it keeps me from talking to myself too much. It's sad when you go somewhere and folks immediately jump down your throat the moment you voice an opinion counter to the prevailing regime.

I simply can not understand why some people will not accept the fact that there are people who believe that OS X is a damn fine OS, albeit not without problems related to growing pangs. Seems like there's room enough in ths world for everybody. Where do these silly vulgar pejorative labels like "crap settlers" come from? Are they that threatened?

Sheesh.

Andy

Hey Andy, your judgement was good and your motives excellent, but there are some over there who just won't be reasoned with. And it is hurting MFI. Like you said over there, OSX Talk is just a pissing contest. There are some there that will never see an opposing opinion because it isn't their agenda. It is difficult to convince a log to see your side of things if you know what I mean. My only hope is to keep offering that opposing opinion in case people who want to try OSX are reading. Just to let them know it isn't the horror that is bandied about there. I don't engage in changing anyone's demeanor, I take my shots when I can. Just to let them know the guns can fire.

Unfortunately, too many people who have great insight have disappeared from the forum. Many of the anti-OSX crowd are starting to leave too. Probably because they have so few to antagonize. I am hoping this means new blood will arrive and brighten up the dialogue. I encourage everyone to participate, even old members. The accusational ones have left, so conflict of interest shouldn't be insinuated anymore.

Over here is great too. I like to come here for soothing and calm. Kudos to the moderators for keeping everything well balanced.:)

Just FYI, none of the moderators on this forum have anything bad to say about other Mac forums. No siree! Nothing bad at all! None, zero, zilch! :cool:

(Fire away, Thundarr! :D)

Like I said, Thundarr, you deserve some kind of medal or something because you're certainly going above and beyond the call. Me, I've removed MFI from my bookmarks list because I'm just tired of all the narrow-minded bullying.

I definitely like it over here--it's now starting to reach a sort of critical mass, I think. What sets OS X Hints apart from everywhere else is the grownup to raving-lunatic ratio. Ahhhhh...I can feel myself calming down even now...

The true mystery about this place, however, is what comes after "Triple-A Player" and when does one reach this next plateau? And at one point do I make it The Show?

Andy

practice, practice, practice. ;)

The Mystery... Revealed! (almost)
 

Somewhere between 73 and 346 posts. Not sure on the number, I just know that you can't be cool until you are a Major Leaguer :D

andy, no worries. opinions are like... that guy just loves to hear himself talk. he's what Robert Heinlein called a 'yammerhead'. they go to great lengths to deny any joy in others. always throwing pitches in the dirt.

thundarr, kudos to you for your masochism and tenacity. just don't swing at those dirt pitches. get to our corner and tag me in before they use a folding chair on your cranium.


what's after major leaguer? colonel (kernel) flapgums. then there's general annoyance. the peter principle then dictates the title 'rear admiral'.

generally speaking, fancy titles and nightshirts are a waste of time.

and never miss a good chance to shut up.

cheers to the high s/n ratio that is here.

"Never miss a good chance to shut up."

Excellent advice mervTormel. I will try and apply it in my MFI visits. I will stick it out over there in addition to my visits here. I think any positive addition I can make will help someone, so it is worth it. The key I think is to say what you want to say and make reasonable points, without engaging in the dirty part of the game. Sometimes you have to get a little dirty to defend yourself, but, you are right, usually the best option is to let it go and shut up.

I never have to do that over here. This site truly does epitomize the Mac way. Always friendly, always helpful. Good to see you are a moderator, excellent free agent addition to the team.

merv, speaking of "that guy," my original intention going up against him was to throw all the silly design jargon he uses back at him or at least demonstrate that this sort of nonsense can be used to facilitate an argument from either point of view. I get irritated when one person claims to be the arbiter of taste or judgement for anything. I'm not sure I achieved that, but I gave it the old college try.

The fact is, I agree with him on many counts--IF we were talking about a brochure or some other printed matter. I think a computer interface is a different beast altogether. Yes, certain design priciples hold true in either case, but I also believe the fact that the overwhelming majority of X users seem to enjoy Aqua validates many of Apple's decisions. It's a fresh look and I enjoy living in it.

Does that mean there's no room for improvement? Of course not. But labeling people "crap settlers" because they have different tastes is offensive. Not that it makes any difference to the few at MFI.

Okay, I'm done with the negativity (deep breath)...and I'm one step closer to being whatever comes after "Triple-A-Player!"

Andy

There are several assumptions implicit in the posts of many who are adamantly opposed to OS X, and there seems to be no countering them with facts or contrary experiences. Here are a few of the most common:

1. Apple has made a huge mistake in using NeXT as the basis for OS X. There's too much of NeXT in OS X. The Mac community will never go for it.

2. It's too hard to learn to use.

3. You have to know Unix to use OS X.

4. The OS 9 Finder was superior and had more features.

5. There's only a neglible difference now between Mac OS and Windows.

6. Aqua is unsuitable for pro users and if someone likes it, they must not be a pro user.

7. OS X is unbearably slow.

8. The Dock is a nuisance, always getting in the way, even when hidden.

9. Apple lost market share last year because of OS X.

10. Aqua is a disaster of an interface--very user-unfriendly (just don't ask for specific examples).

None of these are really completely true; quite the contrary, in almost every case. But when you consider that some people accept pretty much all of the above as gospel truth, and are committed to shouting down anyone who has an opinion or experience to the contrary, you can see why dialogue and discussion becomes just impossible.

That won't happen here. Opinions and experiences both positive and negative are welcomed, but we provide no home for anyone with an axe to grind again and again and again. I'm confident I speak for all the moderators in making this point.

Phil

Definition: "crap-settle":

(v) To participate in 150+ post threads arguing the semantics of what insulting name to call each other. :rolleyes:

I've reformed. :D Haven't many of us?

I would like to reform, but apparently I am a crap settler and cannot accept the better alternative.:)

I keep up the fight because I know new users are lurking, I once was in that same position. And since I was helped by the good folks here who put up the same fight, I feel that someone (me) should keep up the tradition. So, up go the sleeves, on go the boots, and into the manure pile I go. If I help even one person, the deed has been fulfilling.

I admire your patience.

It has a certain Winston Churchill-like character. :)

Thundarr, as much as I admire your courage and endurance I think there's a certain sense of Darwinian justice, if you will, in the idea that Mac OS X Talk may asphyxiate as a result of the grip a few very dogged bullies have over the context of discussion.

Anyone lurking who disagrees with them had best hightail it over here or somewhere else, because the next person who says, "I like the stripes," is going to get the business, if you know what I mean.

It's not fair to Ted Landau, I suppose, but preventing that kind of nonsense is what I thought moderators are for. For the good of that forum, someone had best step in and restore some sense of civility. On the other hand, as I alluded above, there are plenty of alternatives.

Andy

I agree Andy. Moderation has been lacking over there, and if present would have allowed the forum to be an excellent source of information, discussion, entertainment. I think that we are certainly at a bottleneck in its evolution. The mud slinging has eliminated a great part of the population and a few remain to propagate or perhaps just die out. I don't mind sticking it out to the end though, maybe there would be a turn around. There are some good characters who have recently popped up. And I still find it very humorous. It is all a moot point anyway, OSX is here to stay for the foreseeable future, so the X-critics are just beating themselves (use all the associations you wish on that verb).

Craig, I am humbled by any connection to Winston Churchill. One main difference is that his challenge was actually doable. Changing the X-critics, impossible. The only fight is the one to give the opposing view point, which I humbly submit mine in a meager attempt.

Hey, Thundarr! I saw your thread over at Earth's last bastion of openminded and balanced thinking concerning the MacWorld poll.

What do you think the discussion would have been like if the poll had produced the "correct" (i.e. their) results instead of the results it actually had?

I'm thinking you'd be seeing a lot of 'mandate of the people' posts instead of the 'hey you can't trust that sample space' posts. :rolleyes:

Your thoughts?


BTW - loved the HeckleWorks program; you should post links like that here where people actually still give a hoot. :p