You're right...I dismissed that without thinking carefully. However, cache files (most likely to be taking up significant room) are an easy and well marked place to look for and kill. That brings to mind another incompleteness in my post: to look in

~/Library/Caches/
~/Library/ApplicationSupport

for additional folders and files related to an application which one has tried.

Once the cattle are out of the barn, it is rather difficult to try and find unnecessary items. However, if one planned in advance (as per my previous post), then accumulating useless preferences would not be a big problem. One really would not need to place the two above folders under the same folder action because application data in these folders *is* well named. Upon trashing an application, one would only need to trash obvious items from the above two folders, and labeled items from the ~/Library/Preferences/ folder. If I am correct, AppleScript does not yet support labels, but when it does, this could be automated a little.

Perhaps a better answer is that Apple should include in its guidelines to developers that
(1) include a file listing what the application and its installer installed, and where;
(2) each application follow a natural naming scheme for its preferences files;
and perhaps even:
(3) each application include a menu item which would delete all preferences, cache, etc for that application. For something like Stuffit which installs things in system locations, there could be another menu item which removes these as well. (Of course, then watch someone select these by accident).



I hesitate to go so far as to request an uninstaller; in OS X this issue is not so complicated as it is in the window's world and I'd hate to make it sound so.

I hesitate to go so far as to request an uninstaller; in OS X this issue is not so complicated as it is in the window's world and I'd hate to make it sound so.
I just noticed that Tinkertool has an uninstaller.

I wonder. Would it be possible to put some kind of teather or thread that when you throw an application in the trash it pulls the various library files with it?

Good points. I think it could be as simple as:

1. Asking developers that if they're going to use more than one pref, etc. they put it in a folder (this applies also to application support). And that the pref and/or folder be named appropriately.

2. To have applications use the .bom file. Or if they don't have an installer, that they put the file in ~/Library/Receipts on first run.

That way there's no need for an additional place to store " (1) include a file listing what the application and its installer installed, and where;" when bom files fit this nicely.


v

What leads you to believe that developers and 3rd party Installer vendors have not already been asked to do this? Or that they will pay any more attention if asked again?

Some of both the largest and smallest developer (including Apple themselves) break the suggested guidelines all the time. Just like the largest and smallest (including Microsoft themselves) break the suggested Windows guidelines all the time.

Unfortunately just one is enough to start screwing things up. :(

That is true, in the end they're just guidelines. But I'm pretty sure the bom isn't a guideline (maybe if you use installer.app).

v

Hi schneb - flattery will get you everywhere ;)

Just a quickie (haven't they all been?!

"You should not have to hack to have the interface work the way you feel it should"

Hrm. I can't agree with you without qualification there. Define "the way you feel it should", or better, replace it with "the way I feel it should" ;)

Seriously, though, there's a limit. The point I've found with OS X is that there ARE "prefs" for power users - you refer to them as "hacks". We're agreed that Mom and Pop don't need or want most of the stuff we're talking about, so why should the prefs be Mom and Pop friendly?

To take the symbol of the trash as an example. You're not a Mom and Pop user, so you'll be comfortable following simple "power user" instructions. Open Terminal, type "ln -s .Trash Desktop/Trash". Copy and paste whatever icon you like on to the new alias. Good to go.

Is this "Apple Intuitive"? No. Should there be a way to do it without having to go through this procedure? Possibly, as there seem to be enough people with this issue to warrant the ability to drag the Trash alias off the Dock.

However, this is at best a borderline case, and illustrates my point - the prefs ARE there generally speaking. The user IS in control of their system, whether they know it or not. However, comparing the two routes, we have two options - scare the user with a myriad options, or hide those options.

Believe it or not, many "normal" users feel the opposite of you - they feel that more options put the computer in charge, as the computer bombards them with handholding queries every step of the way - Windows Wizards are a major symptom of this, with Apple's ideal install method (Drag app to Applications) makes the Wizards look both arcane and archaic. I would stick my neck out and sweepingly say that "most" Mom and Pop users feel empowered, not entrapped, by a distinct lack of options. They feel like they can get on with telling the computer what they want done and have the computer work for them, not the other way round.

What you seem to be suggesting is that this be thrown away and that Apple provide every conceivable option as a click box somewhere. Why? There ARE ways to do most of what you're suggesting, and if they're hacks then so be it - that's what you're suggesting - hacking the system.

Anyway, rant on :)

Oh, and best of luck with the admin/users idea. Hope it makes sense? If you need any pointers let me know and I'll see what I can do!

I don't check private messages very often, so if you send me one let me know on one of the multi-threads ;)

Thanks Jaybee, stimulating as always. And your comments have spurred me to recode my preferences concern and rewrite it thus...

Rather than more preferences to set or disable, my answer would be to adjust the OS around my way of working. Let me explain this with our favorite example--the Trash Can.

Currently, the Trash Can is pinned to the Dock. Without using the hack you provided in your post, there it stays.

What I would like to see with this and a few other items in OSX, is for the Trash Can to be an application in the Utilities folder. By default, it is in the Dock. But you can unlock it by cntrl-click and poof it.
Now you have no Trash Can, but you can move it from the Utilities folder and place it on the desktop or place it as an icon in left menu or the customize menu, or locked back in the dock.
It does more, it also does not officially delete, rather it pretends to delete*. You can also do a security zero-bit delete as a cntrl-menu option as well as selected volume deletion.

So now the Trash Can has become an uber-can that is under my control. This to me makes a smarter OS and really shines a GUI. No additional preferences needed, just more control for the user without command-line hacks.


*This may need clarification. Back in the OS9 days, there was this great utitlity that made your trash can act exactly as it always did. However, it only pretened to empty, even displaying available space opened on the hard drive. But the files were there unaltered in case you made a booboo. It was a great utility. In the case of needed space, this new application idea would write over older files first (all in the background of course, you would never see this)

Was I the only one that thought of "oh I looove trash! I love it because it's trash!". That was the best app of all times. Anyway, sorry for the OT.

v

schneb ---

I was at Barns and Nobles today browsing the magazines and there was an article in Mac Tech about building your own Preference Panes using Project Builder.

Was a bit over my head - but while sitting there looking through the magazines I thought of this thread and though you might be interested.

Interesting, thanks, I will look for it. The website did not offer it... yet. But thanks for thinking of me regarding this issue and discussion.