Ah - you are a prime candidate for the use of Expose (in Panther). Check out the videos on Apple's site if you haven't seen it yet.

Like some of you, I have fought with Aqua at times, using Duality, unsanity haxies, and so forth. The transparent menus and prominent stripes in OS 10.0-10.1.5 were a bit of a strain for me. I found those features improved from 10.2-10.3, with less transparency and more subtle stripes.

What I've eventually come to settle on is a mostly vanilla set-up, with only MaxMenus to enhance the gui. Aqua and the workflow using the Dock and Panther's Finder works well for me. I don't even use Default Folder any more since the Open/Save dialogue options in 10.3 are much enhanced.

I know people from other forums who have written literally thousands of posts on how bad the OS X gui is, but I just don't get it. As JayBee and Hayne have pointed out, there's a lot of thought that's gone into this and it's still evolving. For those who need more than the default, there are some great 3rd party enhancements out there, and they don't even seem to destabilize the system as much as they did a couple of years ago.

Okay, scary. I'm a fully paid up MaxMenus/Liteswitch owner. What are they scavenging from my machine? Should I be worried?

beware/boycott proteron
 

i have seen many posts in different places all talking about the fact that Proteron is gathering personal info off peoples' hard drives and sending it back to their servers for their own purposes.

personally, i use Little Snitch, so i think i'd be immune. and i'd buy their software instead of stealing it, so they wouldn't have that motivation to be snooping into personal info on my hard drive. but once they've crossed that line in the sand, i wouldn't trust their software to not phone home with other personal info, if they thought it would benefit them.

and i most certainly won't do any business with a company that acts in these ways. i sent my money to Unsanity instead of Proteron, and recommend others do the same. if i were a lawyer with free time and a crusading conscience, i'd try to get Proteron shut down.

Here's the first mention i just found on google, from a MacOSXHints posting: (you can google for many, many more.)

----------------------------------

MaxMenus may harbor spyware
Authored by: icday on Tue, Dec 17 '02 at 09:04AM

On the 18th of September 2002 there were a number of posts of usenet saying Proteron had sent them threatening emails for illegal use of MaxMenus. Let me say first up that I do not condone copyright infringement , and if someone obtains software illegally they cannot expect the vendor to threat them with kid gloves. Nevertheless there are some points of concern-

First, more than one person said that they had received and email when they had not supplied that information to Proteron, so that apparently MaxMenus harvests this from the OS X configuration files.

Secondly,I stand to be corrected but , if the software requires administrative privileges on install then appareneltly all security is lost that that time; The installer can read / write /delete the systems most important files.

Thirdly, shareware vendors have a rough road to travel, but even so, the threat to get the offender fired from their job, in the posting below is, if correct, disturbing.

---

After Jag was released, I switched to X full time. I downloaded a bunch
of OS X utilities that provided OS 9 features to try them out, using
serials from Serial Box. MaxMenus was one of them. I registered the
product with a fake name, fake email address, and pirated serial. That
was on or after August 24.

About a week ago, I turned off MaxMenus in System Prefs because I wasn't
using it. I didn't delete it, though.

Today, in my *real* mailbox, not the phony address I typed in when I
installed MaxMenus, I received this gem:

>Subject: your use of an illegitimate MaxMenus serial number
>
> It has come to our attention that you are using an illegally obtained serial
> number for MaxMenus in direct violation of our license agreement.
>
> We'd like to know why you think you're allowed to do this.
>
> The 30-day trial lets you use our software without limitations. You should
> already be aware that no additional features are unlocked by the serial
> number, only the time limit registration reminders are removed. We made the
> decision early in the development process to allow you to test-drive every
> part of the software, without limitations, that is, until a complete month
> goes by. By that time, we theorized, you should be ready to purchase the
> product, or remove it, at your choice. You chose to do neither.
>
> You have not purchased MaxMenus.
> You have been using it for longer than the 30 day trial.
> But that's not all.
>
> You are receiving this note because we are disappointed that you have chosen
> to seek out an illegitimate serial number to register the software without
> paying for it, in an obvious and direct violation of our license agreement.
> If you are an enterprise or institutional user, we plan to notify your
> employer that you violated our license agreement. They will likely take no
> comfort in this information as your actions expose them to civil liability.
>
> Allow us to be as clear as possible here:
>
> Proteron makes absolutely no warranties about what our software will or won't
> do when unlocked with an illegitimate or stolen serial number. On the other
> hand, Proteron absolutely respects the privacy of paid users and will warrant
> that the software will respect their privacy. If you refuse to abide by the
> license terms (to which you agreed when you installed the software) by
> entering a stolen serial number and effectively insist upon stealing the use
> of this software from us, then we cannot guarantee that your privacy will be
> be respected. To reiterate, the privacy of Proteron's customers and users
> who are legitimately taking the software out for a test-drive is absolutely
> guaranteed. However, we are in no position to protect the privacy of anyone
> stealing serial numbers, licenses, or our software.
>
> Many late nights and long hours have been put into the development of
> Proteron's products. Every now and then it is a good idea to state the
> obvious: your purchase of our products provides incentive for us to continue
> to develop neat things for you to enjoy. We have a long history of providing
> innovative software, both in interface enhancement and in the audio encoding
> area. Proteron brought the task bar to Mac OS 9, and brought MP3 encoding to
> the Macintosh long before Napster and iTunes came along. We're currently
> engaged in various efforts to produce new works for Mac OS X. We want to
> keep doing it. But your insistence upon not paying for our software is
> inconsistent with our efforts and our vision to produce the software that you
> want to use.
>
> Straighten up and fly right. You'll be glad you did, and we will too.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Software Development Team
> Proteron LLC

Re: beware/boycott proteron
 

Wow! As mentioned above, I use MaxMenus--legally. I do have it on both my Powerbook and iMac, however, which I thought was OK. Maybe I'd better read the fine print on that license agreement. I'm sure my employer (me) won't fire me, however. :D

I don't like that kind of snooping around either and just hate it when I have to install an app using an installer that requires authentication. Consider all those apps that notify you when an upgrade is due--Watson and RBrowser, for example. If they check for version #, then why not for other info. I usually trust these companies, but you never know, do you?

Proteron really needs some feedback about the kind of letter they send out. A simple notification with a cease and desist would be plenty.

Thanks for the heads up, petey.

There's some good discussion developing here about snooping and spyware, and that's off the thread topic. If someone wants to start a thread on that in the Coat Room, I'll transfer the relevant posts from this one to the new one and we can continue to discuss the original topic--plain windows/gui, etc. here.

Re: Re: beware/boycott proteron
 

note that this devolves to a matter of trust even without authentication. an app that installs without authentication can read/modify/erase your home folder. and if my limited understanding of permissions is correct, it could also read/modify/erase your /Applications and /Library folders.

i use Watson because i trust Karelia. i won't use MaxMenus becuase i don't trust Proteron.

(and FWIW, what i object to is not the psychotic tone of the email they sent out, what i object to is their scavenging their users home folders for email addresses. that seems very far beyond the pale to me...)

Hmm. Interesting. I don't trust Unsanity not to accidentally screw my system, and now I'm not to keen on trusting Proteron not to deliberately screw my system. Yeek.

I know in the UK we have a Data Protection act that means, for a capped admin fee, I can write to any company I have done business with and demand full disclosure to me of all information they hold on file about me. Failure to provide full information is regarded as a criminal offence and I can have all their data storage impounded by the police and searched. I wonder if this would apply to Proteron? Might be worth the email :)

i have my own issues with Unsanity. i don't like that their installers are not transparent (viewable with Pacifist), and i don't like that they install into /System.

that said, i've bought a couple of haxies from them, and run a couple more freeware APE modules. i also have an excellent level of trust in them.

my machine seems very stable running APE. and i like having a single method of hacking my system, rather than multiple ways.

i also like that Slava seems very responsive. he maintains a good blog, responds to email, and even participated in a thread here about his products.

your mileage may obviously vary.

Just to keep everyone updated, this could be interesting (and is way offtopic - sorry about that!) but I've emailed Proteron asking for disclosure of all information they carry on me. I'm assuming they'll at the very least come back and say I need to prove my identity to them.

Might start a separate thread for it, but then again I don't know how open they'd be if there was a massive thread here dedicated to the subject started by a user with a familiar email address ;)

This is a common lament regarding Windows. Every time they come out with a new OS, ya gotta upgrade your hardware. So where are your savings now PC users?

However, to Apple's credit, every OSX iteration gets faster and more efficient. But your lament is worthy of ranting to Apple. I did. I told Apple that they need to create iTheme which is a whole-heap-a-preference settings that gives the user complete control over the OS interface environment.

I told Apple that it is their focus to make the USER dictate how the computer operates and not the OS. So why are we forced to endure the Dock? Why are we forced to look at all that eye candy? Why are we forced to use the Dock trash can that moves every time we need to throw something away!?

Write them. Let them know that we want our control back. Otherwise, we will hack it all away and not pay another $130 for OS10.4

It is possible that MaxMenus (the application itself) only scavenges for information if you give it a pirated/illegal serial number. I have seen quite a few apps that tell you you entered a pirated serial number when you try.
The few shareware products that I am working on will have an internal database of pirated serial numbers, though it won't be phoning home, just wagging a finger at the user.

Anything like the suggested iTheme, coming from Apple, would be a tech support, and bug fixing, nightmare. Apple chose not to continue with the use of the built-in themes in 8.5 and higher for a reason. I installed hi-tech from one of my developer CDs into 9.1 once, and it had a knack for corrupting the finder preferences to the point of the machine needing a reboot and the prefs file deleted.

Personally, I think I'll be using ShapeShifter, as it appears to work in a similar way to Kaleidoscope in pre OS X (in that it doesn't modify existing core system files).

This scenario has been brought up before, and it is a good point. However, if we worried so much about corrupted preferences, we would not have our iApps. After all, they are all susceptable. The answer is not dropping good ideas due to corruption fears, but rather, fixing the corruption causes. You cannot innovate with fear at the helm.

The tech support issue is a good one. That is why I rethought out my proposition in regard to preferences with the following engineering scenario.

Rather than more preferences to set or disable, my answer would be to adjust the OS around my way of working. Let me explain this with our favorite example--the Trash Can.

Currently, the Trash Can is pinned to the Dock. Without using the hack you provided in your post, there it stays.

What I would like to see with this and a few other items in OSX, is for the Trash Can to be an application in the Utilities folder. By default, it is in the Dock. But you can unlock it by cntrl-click and poof it.
Now you have no Trash Can, but you can move it from the Utilities folder and place it on the desktop or place it as an icon in left menu or the customize menu, or locked back in the dock.
It does more, it also does not officially delete, rather it pretends to delete*. You can also do a security zero-bit delete as a cntrl-menu option as well as selected volume deletion.

So now the Trash Can has become an uber-can that is under my control. This to me makes a smarter OS and really shines a GUI. No additional preferences needed, just more control for the user without command-line hacks.


So here we have less preferences, yet power enought to allow the OS to run the way we choose and not visa verse.

The iThemes idea can be limited to window texture, various colors, blessed fonts, progress bar animation, buttons and other such items that could be nothing more but TIFF replacements. Apple could then have full control over its usage.

Again, it is the OS under our control and design, much like the desktop is today.

Everyone seems to be complaining that mac os is too "flashy." Maybe it uses some more system resources..but here is a fact:

-I have a 600mhz G3 slot loading iMac.
-At work I use a 2.08ghz Pentium 4 HP.
-The HP freezes all the time doing little to no tasks at all.
-My iMac outerforms the HP in everyday tasks.
-The HP flat screen monitor hurts my eyes after about half an hour..Also, everything in xp is pixelated and gross looking.
-I can sit at my iMac for hours and not feel any eye strain. OS X is smooth and beautiful to look at. If you use a computer for as many hours a day as I do, you not only need it to perform well, but you need to be able to stand looking at it.

I personaly feel XP is an ugly piece of trash. Just my 2 cents.

Your opinions matter in regard to interface look and comfort of use--especially in the area of eyestrain. I use Windows XP at work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and I agree, XP is bone ugly. However, I set the theme to Classic and all is well.

Alas, there is no such ability built into OSX. It is Apple that has decided to allow no control over the look of the OS--which I feel is a mistake. Perhaps someone wanting to switch from a PC looks at OSX and says, forget it, its ugly. Some have said the window borders are too thick. Others say they hate the brushed metal look.

Apple should realize that all of us Mac users have to look at the interface on a DAILY basis. Does Apple want users to bring their Mac up from sleep and think, "Ugh, I hate the look of those bubble-buttons." Wouldn't it be better to have them think, "Man, I love this new theme I downloaded from Apple."

But it's their baby. Just MY 2 cents for the pot.

XP can be an ugly piece of trash indeed, but to me its a functionnal ugly piece of trash. Did you remove that ugly rounded-corner theme? Did you activate font smoothing? What's the refresh rate of that HP flat screen?

Slamex is right. I'll bet big bucks that your monitor is set at a refresh rate of 60 Hertz. Right-click on your desktop and choose properties. Click "Settings" tab and then the "Advanced" button. Click the "Monitor" tab then up the Screen Refresh to as high as your monitor will allow. If your monitor cannot break 60 Htz, then the problem is your monitor and not your interface.

For reasons I cannot even begin to comprehend, both of the two mainstream commercial operating systems have gone to infantile in the decor department. Windows XP's Luna and its siblings all look like something the Teletubbies would use. But compared to anything except that, the Aqua appearance is pretty damn ugly too.

I don't mind "flashy", but Aqua is an odd mixture of plain and silly. System 6 has more dignity and clarity, while MacOS 9 (Platinum) looks more cool and modern.

Main dislikes about Aqua:

• The fonts are like something out of Reader's Digest LARGE PRINT EDITION
• The "stoplight motif" for the window widgets is infantile and silly-looking
• Absence of window borders make windows look plain and the inability to click and drag from edges or bottom is annoying
• The GummiWorms-R-Us sliders and OK buttons and whatnot are silly and distracting and infantile.
• The "Computer" window and the Dock are Windows wannabe elements. The Dock in particular is an intolerable eyesore with no redeeming features whatsoever, eating up screen real estate, getting in your way, doing cutesey infantile things like jumping up and down for attention. It's useless as a launcher unless you're one of those folks who use less than a dozen applications, and very Windowsesque as a process swapper. (I will never, ever, under any circumstances, put up with the Dock. The moment Apple makes it truly impossible to run OS X without the Dock, I quit upgrading.)
• Prior to Panther, the Open/Save/Save As dialog boxes in MacOS X were the worst I've ever seen, with keyboard navigation a nightmare and mouse navigation frustrating as hell. Windows for Workgroups did it better. I don't have Panther installed yet so I can't credit the improvements yet (they sound great -- although what I'd really really really like would be the GUI of the pre-Navigation Services MacOS 8 dialogs except with the buttons to connect to servers like Nav Services added, the non-modal nature where you can leave the dialogs sitting there and go do other things in other programs, and the abilities provided by Default Folder (adding/renaming/deleting folders, renaming or deleting files, editing file characteristics, etc) or Windows Open/Save/Save As dialogs (which despite their other limitations were pretty good about letting you edit "Finder"-level stuff from these dialogs)

As others have said, the key thing is to give us choices. If I want all my overhead menus in Chicago 12 and my contextual menus and Finder labels in Monaco 9, I should be able to set them that way without semi-functional 3rd-party hacks. The Dock (including Cmd-Tab functionality as well as launching and minimizing and making any type of on-screen appearance) should be entirely customizable, or else be optional in its entirety (with the OS not dependent on it being a running process). MacOS X should have a general GUI pref that lets you use Classic Platinum or Aqua or System 6's GUI, which should come with the install pkg, or any of a zillion compatible 3rd-party alternatives that match a published standard.

MacOS X should have a general GUI pref that lets you use Classic Platinum or Aqua or System 6's GUI, which should come with the install pkg, or any of a zillion compatible 3rd-party alternatives that match a published standard.

Interesting idea. I wonder how much it would cost to test a commercial application against 'any of a zillion compatible 3rd-party alternatives that match a published standard,' and how much of that cost would be reflected in the price of said application.

Any software developers out there care to take a guess, based on experience with previous 3rd party alternatives which claim to match published standards?

Misery Loves Company
 

Ahhh, a kindred spirit. You will find an advocate here, AHunter. Your rants about the interface is almost parallel with mine (and funnier too). Caution, you can expect alot of flack (as I have) in these forums. Some are valid such as the support issues involved. Others are mindless and counter-productive such as "I like it, get used to it." nonsense.

Craig is right regarding the zillion 3rd party alternatives. That is just asking for trouble. Better yet would be to pin down the interface and just offer iThemes which will switchout the TIFF and PDF textures, buttons and bars. This then will not change the actual interface workings--just how it looks.

Now, Apple has stated with the new Panther Finder that the user dictates how the OS works and not visa-verse. I would apply this thinking to the dock, trash, and other items. There needs to be more control given to the user. I've discussed this before, so best look at those posts.

</mytwocents>

Unsanity has put out a program called ShapeShifter that allows os X to be themed. Resexelence.com has tons of themes. this fixes my problems. I themed XP to look like os X, but still wasn't happy, everything still looked gross to me. I guess i'm just a die-hard mac guy...anti microsoft.