900mhz G3 vs. 800mhz G4
 

How much of a difference can I expect when comparing a 900mhz G3 iBook and a 800mhz G4 iBook.


With the same memory, video, and Panther, which would load quicker?
Which would open Photoshop quicker?

Any huge or remarkable difference between the two?

if you're running software optimized for the G4, aka lots of video editing/compression software and some Photoshop functions, the G4 will be many times faster. For everything else, the G3 will be slightly faster.

the G3 will run cooler. it is also capable of booting into OS 9.

Note: Final Cut Pro 4 and DVD Studio Pro 2 will not even install on a G3.

bottom line: if you're planning on doing any video work at all, or more than a little Photoshop work, get the G4. if not, it's a toss up.

iChat AV is another video application that seems to "like" G4's a lot more than G3 processors:

http://www.apple.com/ichat/

Note that the cutoff for iChat AV is a 600 MHz G3 or 350 MHz G4.

I would definitely favor the G4 and would have a hard time recommending the G3.

very little software outside of video and 3D is optimized for the G4. and considering how difficult coding for Altivec seems to be, that's not likely to change...

I agree. Also the video, Bus and Memory Subsystem in the Ibook G4 was improved.
 

I agree. Also the video, Bus and Memory Subsystem in the Ibook G4 was improved over G3 model. I would not buy anything with a G3 as its exists today.

It is usually a fools errand to by the older model with computers. Every few months prices and or performance change for the better.

Older Models are discounted just prior to introductions of the newer ones. Although the discounts are usually in line with what the new unit will cost. They may lower the price of X model to $1099 but then the new better model is introduced $ around the same $1099 price point. This is what happened with Ibook G4.

There are some nice bench marks barefeats.com, macaddict.com, macworld etc.

P.S. I made a similar choice I bought Imac Flat G4 700 October 02. I was well aware that no matter how much I spent in Oct 02 computers 2 or 3 years latter would run circles around it. One should spend for the system that will do what they need it to do, not Future Proof. One can not do that. Less then 9 months later a 1ghz model with better everything costs the same money. It never stops.
-----------------------------

Side note about Future G3 if intersted
 

As a side note of interest IBM is not just making the Kicken G5 and its Future brethern. They are also making a G3 that has Features of the G4 and G5. A high speed bus front side bus. Altec V ehnancements etc.

Apple will probably not call this a G3 Processor. It is of course up to Apple what they rename the CPUs. Makes more sense to then calling the Next thing after G4 a 970.
When these G5/G4 like G3 become Available shortly they might very well become the basis of many of Apples computers.

At the same time the Clock speed of G5 will be jumping shortly and then when the Die size changes it should as "Steve" promised be 3ghz and disapate less eat. And of course there are suceccor chips, G6 G7.

one additional advantage of the G3 machine would be better battery life.

---

as an aside, i'd buy the G4 because i do some video work. however, if i didn't, i'd be perfectly comfortable buying the G3. the higher clock speed should make it slightly faster for non altivec optimized operations - which is almost everything outside of video, 3D apps, and specific filters in Photoshop.

if you're spending most of your time in Safari, Mail, and the Finder, a G4 chip isn't going to do you the slightest bit of good.

and the G3 will run cooler, have better battery life, and boot into OS 9. finally, of course, the iBook G4 is a rev. 1 design, while the iBook G3 has had time to get the bugs worked out.

the decision depends on your priorities.

Just a reminder
 

Small Differences in Clock speed even in the same processor family are not very noticable

800 vs. 900 mhz is like 12 percent. But Keep in mind that the Ibook G4 not only have Altec V ehnacement. They have Double Date Rate Ram, Higher Bus Speeds, and Better Video Cards.

Re: Just a reminder
 

the G3 and G4 are in the same processor family. a G4 is just a G3 with the altivec routines added on. a 900mhz G3 will be 12% faster than a 800mhz G4 on anything other than altivec enabled code. whether this 12% is noticeable or not depends on your threshold of noticeability.

your point about the improved RAM, video card, and bus speed is correct, but on balance i'd guess they'll add up to somewhat less than that 12% for most tasks.

the upshot is that the 2 machines will have very similar performance except on altivec code, which is almost exclusively used for video functions. and if you have no need for altivec, there are advantages to the iBook G3.

Actually the G4 is between 5% to 15% faster than a G3 for non-Altivec tasks for (any given clock rate and cache amounts). Also the caching scheme in the G4 allows for multiprocessing which the G3 was unable to do (the G4 was based on the 604e while the G3 was based on the 603e).

Also I would guess that Apple would call a G3+Altivec a G4 in their product line. As these would most likely end up in the mid to low end systems, odds are that the multiprocessing ability (or lack of them) aren't going to be a factor.

None of the sites I have listed yet have all the new systems benmarked
 

None of the sites I have listed yet have all the new systems bench marked against all the older systems, Yet.

Barefeats has some of the newer units tested but most of the comparisons are completed stacking the Ibook G4 against Powerbook G4 (where their smaller level 2 cache in the Ibook G4 make them a bit slower).

If the poster has the desire/Patience they can wait for all the Comparos to come in.

*** But, Again we are all splitting hairs here. On everything but the Altec V enabled apps the machines should be very close. And I am not so sure about the only Video Apps. I have not kept a running tally. I would not be surprised to find even parts of Apple OS optimized. Other then Photoshop, Final Cut, Mp3 crunching, and Virtual PC and similar programs. I do not remember, perhaps others (that which is Altec V Opimized [these get 50 to 200 percent]).

My point to the Poster is that the G4 unit is quite nice for the money and will serve well. It is quite possible as in all bench mark tests not all the tests will go in Favor of the G4, it would surprise me , but it is possible.

There are of course reasons why Apple Dropped the G3 as it exists today from the prodcts that still contained it (and expense was not it). They felt it was the superior CPU choice.

Re: None of the sites I have listed yet have all the new systems benmarked
 

i'm unaware of any parts of the apple os outside of quicktime being altivec coded.

only very small areas of Photoshop are altivec enabled.

i'm also unaware of VPC improvements, but i could be wrong there.

on the other hand, mp3 compression definitely takes advantagle of altivec, but that shouldn't be much of an issue unless you're planning on ripping several hundred CD's.
likewise, it would surprise me if the 900 G3 doesn't outperform non-altivec tests over the 800 G4.

but again, if you're not going to be relying on Altivec for any serious work, you'll get an iBook G3 that runs cooler, gets better battery life, boots into OS 9, gets you a much more proven model design, may run slightly faster, and saves you a few hundred dollars to sweeten the deal.
or they felt that manufacturing one chip in quantity would get them lower unit costs than maintaining two separate development cycles and production runs.

or their marketing department decided that a G4 iBook would get the suckers to go into a revenue producing upgrade cycle to be current with the kewl kids.

as i keep repeating, it depends on the the buyer's priorities. i do video, so i'd go G4. if i didn't do video, i'd get the G3. (unless, of course, my priority was to brag to my friends over diet pepsi about my snazzy G4 chip and how kewl it is...)

If the Ibook g3 is really being offered for hundreds less
 

If the Ibook g3 is really being offered for hundreds less then it is worth considering.

I was under the impression the prce with about the same.

If it were my Personal money I would buy an Ibook G4 unless the price difference was greater then $300.

Actually I would probably take my $1299 and buy Flat Imac G4 1gig.

Although I would be awfully tempted by the Poweerbook Alumi 12 1gig $1599.

When I made my Purchase in Oct 02 the 15 was almost double the price, it was easier to reject.

Another Kernal for the Oringial Poster:)
 

Just a reminder that Ibook line G3/G4 is limted to one SODIMM slot/640 ram unless you employ very expensive 1 gig modules.

The Alumni 12 is similarly limited to 768ram with out the 1 gig modules.

The Powerbook line (besides the 12), the Imac and Emac lines each have two memory slots.

While the difference bettween 640/768 and 1.0, 1.1, or 1.2, gigs of ram is not monumental. It does make a difference. It is more Apparent in Photoshop and Video Editing Apps that take large advantage of ram.

It is nice that 1gig SoDIM have become Available (though there price $450 to $600 depending on the system in ? is frightening).

Just note that until recently 512meg SODIMS were around $60 and now about $110 or about $220 a gig/pair.

In Short there is currently a $230 to $380 Priemium per gig using gig modules.

In the Power book 15 and 17, Imac and Emac the two memory slots allow getting up to a gig with 512's. And at least in the Powerbooks Up to two gigs with the Expensive 1 gig modules. Have not seen anyone take Imac and Emacs up to 2 gigs though I know of of no reason why you could not. Just people that spend 1k+ on ram usually buy G4 or G5 towers instead. Especially because the latter has 8 dimm slots. You have to wanna go higher then 4gigs of ram before you switch to 1 gig modules.

Indeed Apple Dealer's seem to be offering the ibook G3 12 for $100 less then G4
 

Indeed Apple Dealer's seem to be offering the ibook G3 12 for $100 less then G4.

Not enough incentive for me though I know Petey disagrees..

And that $100 evaporates pretty quickly when you consider that OOTB iBook G3's don't come with Panther.

(never mind the ATI 9200 vs. 7500, faster memory, slot-loading drive, USB 2.0, etc.)

Preaching to the Converted:) here
 

Preaching to the Converted:) here

Course I forgot about Panther. That is a motivation too. To be fare I am not certain, but is possible the system qualifies for $20 upgrade. Still its nice to have Panther Pre Installed and in the Box, not fun to wait for a few weeks.

Hmmm Just occured to me no matter how frighteningly expensive the 1gig modules are at least with the G4 Ibook, I know its an option. Not sure that is the case with G3 Ibook (anybody know)?

Don't fear the G3
 

i don't really disagree. if i had to choose between the two, i'd take the iBook G4 because i have use for altivec.

but my larger point is that a G4 is not a magic chip that will solve all your life's problems. if will dramatically speed up altivec optimized operations, and nothing else. if you aren't doing video, or a very limited number of other things that are altivec optimized, you have nothing to fear from a G3 chip.

personally, since i need both altivec and OS 9 booting, i'm in the market for a used TiBook on eBay.

No fear, Honest Difference of Opinion
 

No fear, Honest Difference of Opinion: Anyway, movin on....

For the moment we seem to have lost our faithful reader, the orginal Poster.

So at the risk of "Hijacking the thread"

What App/s do you still need OS9 "bootin" for??

You should be Able to find TiBooks still. I think all the Tibooks are 9 bootable (even the 1gig?).

Also recommend that Purchase go through a dealer. Should be Able to still find one that is "new" and Apple Care warrantable.

At the very least you won't have to sweat the transaction hoping to find all that is wrong durring the escrow period.

Even being Able to use your Credit Card WITHOUT Pay Pal is Huge. Regular Credit Card Transactions are disputable, if you find anything Fishy out for months, well 45 days after Delivery (I believe is the offical time frame).

I'm sure you know...
 

The Usual Suspects and many more (867s seems to be around $1500 and 1gigers around $1900)

e.g.

http://www.smalldog.com
http://powermax.com

They still have new, some refurb and some Open Box.

Even Apple has refurbed

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL....3.1.1.0?93,52

e.g.

PowerBook G4 867MHz/256MB/40GB/SuperDrive/E/12"TFT - Refurbished Add $1,399.00
PowerBook G4 1GHz/256MB/60GB/Combo/GigE/15"TFT - Refurbished $1,699.00

Re: No fear, Honest Difference of Opinion
 

- Specialized app with a USB copy protection dongle.

- QXP Photobook (best Contact Sheet software ever) which won't work in Classic

- Accessing my MP3 Jukebox. The manufacturer doesn't have an OS X USB driver. I keep hoping there is some kind of generic OS X USB harddrive driver that would work, but I haven't found one yet. The Jukebox mounts in OS 9 as a standard harddrive.
i have no problem in buying a used laptop on eBay. the protections i keep in mind:

- eBay feedback of the seller.

- buy a laptop that is either still in warranty, either the original one year so i can add on AppleCare, or a laptop that already has AppleCare.

I opted for the G3 iBook.
My primary use was for wireless internet access and Microsoft word processing.

I don't do video editing and can't afford Adobe Photoshop. :D
Thanks for the information. I didn't want to feel like I made a bad purchase. This is my first Mac btw, heh.

err Well do not forget you Discounted Upgrade to Panther
 

err Well do not forget your Discounted Upgrade to Panther.. I hope... Supposedly good on all purchases Made a little {Edit } After Oct 8. See next post for URL.

I think It is $20 Dollars. Someone may have the URL to print, email, fax to Apple....

Even if you do not want it you could always Ebay it I guess. It Sells for around $119 if you did not just buy a new machine after it came out.

Good Luck.

P.S. I mean no Disrespect for Pettey's Opinon. He is a Good contributer. That Said
I and a number of others feel the Ibook G4 significanly faster/better Video Card, G4 processor, Better Bus Speed, and Double Date rate ram are worth way more then the $100 premium.

Re: err Well do not forget you Discounted Upgrade to Panther
 

Would like to find that deal. No luck searching the forum. Thanks for the reminder.

Took me a minute to find it too:)
 

Here you go $19.95

**** About

http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

***Looks Like you can order it on line with your Serial Number

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...mber=M9231LL/A

Qualifying Compurters:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/list.html

e.g. M9018LL/A Z07R iBook 900
----------------------------------------------------------

Apple would like to give you the opportunity to upgrade to Mac OS X Panther v10.3 and Mac OS X Server v10.3 for US$19.95.* Product availability: October 24, 2003

The program ends on December 26, 2003. Your order must be postmarked or faxed by December 17, 2003, so order your upgrade now.