troubleshooting internet issues
 

Hello
I have the latest MBP connected wirelessly to an Airport Extreme which is connected to a Time Warner-certified modem on the Time Warner network in NYC.
I keep having terrible drop out issues with the internet, usually they occur during the day. Every time I check the modem and the airport and all the lights are on and green and when I call TWC they say there are no outages in the area so I am starting to wonder if it is a software issue that I can somehow troubleshoot and resolve.
The only other things connected to the router physically are a USB printer and an Ooma base station (a VoIP phone service). In the house we have two macs, a PC (don't ask!), and iPad and two iPhones that are connected to the same network, all wirelessly.
When these issues occur I have at times had luck by resetting the DHCP address in the Network settings and other times I had to restart the modem/router to fully work.
Can you guys give me any insights as to how to troubleshoot this?
Thanks a million!

You need to start with a wifi scanner program, specifically to examine signal strength, channel and noise and compare that with other nearby wifi routers.
It's built-in on Mavericks:
http://osxdaily.com/2012/07/31/wi-fi...mountain-lion/
You can download the free iStumbler for older OSes.
One of the easiest things to try is changing channels (in the router's admin web page) to a less-used one.

Come back with results for us to help more.

Great. Thanks for this amazing tip! Totally unaware of. So am I supposed to just leave the Wireless Diagnostic open all the time and let it do it's thing in the background? It seems if I click the "Continue" buttom it would stop monitoring Wifi.

Also how would I know which channels are less used ones if I wanted to switch to one of those?
Right now in the AirPort Utility Wireless>Wireless Options window it says the Radio Channel is set to Automatic

I can't speak to the capabilities of whatever is built in to Mavericks, but I can say that any real stumbler program, including iStumbler that gsahli pointed you at, will tell you what channel other WiFi networks are using, and how strong those channels' signals are.

To pick a good channel, find one that is separated from your neighbors' WiFi networks by as much as possible. In the old days when WiFi networks were much less common, you tried to get at least 6 channels away from anyone else. In most neighborhoods, that's no longer possible, so nowadays you try to find a channel where there are no strong networks within 3 channels in either direction. Sometimes you can't even do that, so you just do as well as possible looking at what everyone else is using.

Trevor

I've downloaded iStumbler.
All the channels seem to have 13% of noise it says. I'm on ch 11 with 58% signal. There is another network on the same channel that has 34% signal. The next two strongest signals are 55% and 49% and they are channel 6 and channel 157 and they are both my neighbor's network (two channels for the same network name).
So should I switch my airport from Automatic Channel selection to manual? And if so should I choose the strongest channel even though that is already assigned to my neighbor? Or should I pick a channel that is not assigned to anyone? It seems everyone is on 1,6,10,11,149,153 and 157, so are all the other numbers fair game?

Channels 1-11 (in the US--in other countries these channels can go as high as 14) are 2.4 GHz versions of 802.11b, g, and n. The higher numbered channels (they can go between 36 and 165 with some missing in the US, the mishmash in other countries is even more confusing) are 5 GHz versions of 802.11n or ac.

If you are in the lucky position to only have strong 2.4 GHz neighbors' channels on 6 and 11, then by all means use Channel 1 for 2.4 GHz. Probably set 5 GHz to Automatic--that should move it out of the interference from neighbors.

Trevor

I don't see a way to set only a specific channel to a specific frequency, unless I am missing something.
Please see attached the image of iStumbler and of the AirPort Utility wireless option. The first network with 50% is mine.

You don't set a specific channel to a specific frequency. It is inherently that frequency.

Set your router to use Channel 1.

Trevor

ok I have just set it to channel 1, although today there are 4 other signals on channel 1 (but they are all under 30% in strength)

If the other weak signals on Channel 1 cause problems, you can try to move to Channel 3. That's closer to the strong signal on Channel 6, so it's questionable which channel is better for you, but 3 is another good possibility.

Trevor

I've been on channel 3 for a day and my internet dropouts continue ailing me, even now that I am on channel 3 and have been on it for a day or so...

If you look at the 3 screen shots you will the status that AirPort Utility and iStumbler show, and these three screenshots have been taken in the course of about 3 minutes.

Maybe ch 3 is particularly bad but basically it's been going in and out constantly, more so than other times

You don't seem to have specified exactly what sort of trouble you are having - what you mean by "dropouts". Do you lose Internets connectivity entirely? Or just experience slowness?
If it's a complete loss of connectivity, are you still connected to the wireless router? (If so, the problem is at the router and beyond).

<edit>
Looking at your screen captures, it would seem that the problem is from the Airport Extreme and beyond.
So maybe check into its settings (consider resetting them) and check into how the modem is configured.
</edit>

By dropout I mean loss of connectivity.
I have a TWC tech coming in today to check my line but over the phone I asked TimeWarner to check the signal strength and the download/upload speed and the logs and they claim I had 100% connectivity over the last 7 days and that the speeds are in line with what I am paying for (13Mbps down, 2Mbps up, even though I am paying for 20Mbps down, but that's another story)...
I am happy with the speed WHEN it works but it goes in an out all the time.

I have connected a mac via ethernet cable directly to the airport extreme and I streamed a YouTube video in HD for about 40 min without dropouts so I am starting to think the issue is the wireless network created by AirPort extreme but I am not sure how to troubleshoot it...

Your screenshots show another strong signal from a device with a Xerox chipset on Channel 3. Given that strong signal on 3 I'd avoid it. Channel 1 or perhaps Channel 9 might be better. Or go to the 5 GHz channels that are higher than 11, if that frequency is supported by your devices.

Trevor

As hayne mentioned, though, your screenshots show that the signal coming into your router sometimes has problems. Your modem itself might be bad, or the cable between modem and router. In those circumstances, the cable company can test the signal all they want and it will always come up perfectly good, but what you actually see is not good.

Trevor

Right that is the predicament I am in.
I have already changed all the Cat 5 cables between modem and router and router and ooma... what else can I try?

1. try a different modem
2. try a different router

Trevor

And try connecting your Mac to the modem directly with Ethernet (as a diagnostic step).

I am still trying to figure this out... is there a way for me to test whether it is my Airport Express or the modem or the connection? I'm kind of at a loss on how to troubleshoot it

The previous two posts suggested ways of distinguishing where the problem is.
Beyond that, you could look at the logs on the two devices.

I don't have a different modem or router that I can try it with.
I did connect directly to the router with an ethernet cable and the connection seemed solid for an hour, but I don't know how to check the wireless connection.
I am assuming that if the Airport Utility shows an orange light by the internet world graphics that would mean that it is the modem that is loosing its connection, right?

Where would I find the modem log and what would I be looking for?

Sometimes that's the only way to diagnose things - swap out parts until you see which ones don't work.
Not sure, but are you saying that the connection between your modem and the Airport Express is a wireless one? You shouldn't do that - you should have the Airport Express connected via Ethernet to the modem.

If you have a solid connection when directly connected via Ethernet to the modem, then it would seem that your problem is with the Airport Express.
But first try connecting your Mac via Ethernet to the Airport Express (which is connected via Ethernet to the modem). That sidesteps any wireless issues.

The Airport Express shows an orange light when something is wrong. To find out what is wrong, look at the logs of the Airport Express - look for an Advanced section in Airport Utility.


For that, you'll need to research the docs for your specific modem model.

The connection between my modem and my airport extreme is wired but when I tested the wired connection I connected my computer via ethernet to one of the available ports on the airport extreme.

I don't see an Advanced section in Airport Utility... where is that?

I'm not at home so can't try it to show you a screen capture.
But I think I recall that the Advanced section might have been removed in the most recent versions of Airport Utility. Not sure. I recall some talk about installing the previous version to be able to get at the logs etc.

I a pretty sure I have the latest version... is there another way to the logs?

Now at home and looking at Airport Utility, I don't see any way to get the logs.
Look for the older version of Airport Utility - I think Apple still makes it available.

I have 6.3.2
I just downloaded and tried installing 6.3.1, 6.2 and 6.1 and for all of them I got a message saying that this version could not be installed on this computer and a newer version should be downloaded

It's the 5.6 (as I recall) version that has the logs.
Googling seems to show that special tricks are needed to install that version on Mavericks.

can't the logs be accessed via Console somehow??
also if I post the Wireless Diagnostics test results, can somebody interpret them for me here?

I do not think you have mentioned the size/distance of your home in relation to Extreme (and your computers). The construction of walls, etc. As a small aside a lot of grief/greater speed can be fixed by switching to opendns.org as your dns settable on computer or router.

It would be helpful to know exactly what Airport extreme, express, model, year, etc. Many homes require two rowers. The last two generation Extremes are much more powerful. if your area as the option FIOS is the best ISP that I am aware of speed wise.

thanks for asking

I am open to switching to opendns.org, but how would that help if the connection to my internet is dropped by the modem? would that still help?

I am in an open loft with no walls and my computer is 10 feet away from my airport extreme... there is some furniture between the computer and the airport but no walls!

I have the square Airport Extreme, the one before the latest tower-shaped generation. I am running 7.6.4 on it.

still no FIOS in my area

But I thought that you had ruled out any problems with the modem by connecting directly to it with Ethernet.

And I don't know of any way to get access to the log files of the Airport Extreme from your Mac (without using Airport Utility). The files are stored on the Airport Extreme, not on your Mac, so you need some program that can communicate with the Airport Express and get the logs from it.

It does not seem like you have yet connected your computer directly to the modem by ethernet cable, as requested as a test.

And you probably should leave that connection up for longer than an hour test, unless you ALWAYS had the dropout problem in a consistently shorter time than an hour.

Because your Airport Base Station showed that it's upstream connection failed, we have inconsistent information right now. Is a wired connection between computer and Airport Base Station solid, as your one-hour test showed? Or does the Airport Base Station itself lose connection, as your earlier screenshots showed?

Trevor

In no particular order...

1) Though I suspect wireless at issue.

2) My colleagues point about confirming wired connectivity from the Extreme and Modem both is important too. I am perplexed at least that some are referring to an express and not an extreme. You mentioned it was the last gen Extreme before the tower version.

3) Two answer your question about opendns and other good dns.... Can both make browsing faster and extreme cases overcome not finding certain parts of the internet. It can very well fix that sort of connectivity issues depending on how their defined. I have with say Verizon or another isp DNS run into an occasional brick wall getting where I want to go. It of course can not fix a complete lack of connectivity.

4) I foo not think unless I missed how were defining the lack of connectivity. I have seen funky behavior on occasion regarding airport status of Airport equipment (extreme, express) that does not necessarily agree with current reality. ? Is it that you can not browse the internet, its slow, that you can not get to certain sites?

Occasionally rebooting the modem can be helpful. You also can speak to your ISP and they should be able to tell you if they see any issues on the modem

5) Sounds like you have a Ethernet cable. You can get a long one from Amazon, new egg or monoprice, say 15 to 25 feet that should let your work comfortably wired for testing purposes ($3-$15).

Lastly since you have line of site if the issue is wireless you can use 5gz which is faster and less susceptible to interference then 2.4ghz. Range is less and it can not go through walls as well, but that is not your current situation.

6) Just making sure but the connection between the Cable modem and the Extreme. Your using the WAN port on the extreme * simple if I remember correctly.

Ok, so when you mentioned it I updated my Airport Extreme to the OpenDNS dns numbers and flushed the internet cache both in the browser and via terminal as suggested by the OpenDNS website. I have now been on OpenDNS for over 24 hours but I still get the dropouts.
In particular in the last few hours I saw 3-4 of them... They only last about 30 sec to 2 min usually.
I have been running Wireless Diagnostics for a while... When I went to dinner and came back it had dropped and so I kept running it and I am attaching the logs to this post.
I am getting a long Ethernet cable so I can try wired connectivity next time I can work from home (Probably Thursday).
Here are the logs: http://we.tl/Ws0xH5qguS
Can you guys make any sense out of these Wireless Diagnostics logs? I really don't know where to start looking. Thanks

Umm - when I click on that link, it says the download is 6 MB. Plus it seems to be a Flash site.
Please just attach the logs as plain text files using the Manage Attachments button at the bottom when you reply.

Um, that's normal. Internet speed is highly variable. By that, I don't mean to say just that your download speed may not always be at max. I mean that servers do not always respond immediately to your queries. Packets do get dropped, and TCP will retry after a timeout, but you have to wait through the timeout. A busy server will sometimes just drop connection requests, on the theory that "if it's important, they'll call back, and maybe I won't be so busy then."

A very important compromise in the design of IP (Internet Protocol) is that it is expressly OK to drop packets, anywhere along the route, for any reason or for no reason at all. As cavalier as that may sound, it's important. IP wouldn't work as well as it does if packet delivery were guaranteed. The guarantee would cost way more than it's worth.

I, at least, thought by "dropout" you meant that your internet access was totally gone. (That also happens from time to time, for time periods lasting from minutes to hours, for no fault of you or your machine, but fortunately that's infrequent. Your electric power also sometimes drops, with similar frequency/duration.)

But now I see that you meant some connections were stuttering. Get used to it. That's the internet.

Hayne, please download that file that is the right file and will be there for a week only. Wetransfer is a very popular file-transfer website. I tried to upload the ZIP file to the forums but this forum will not let me upload 6Mb file and the ZIP file generated by the Wireless Diagnostics app IS indeed 6Mb big and contains several logs... I wouldn't know which one to send/attach here as I don't know what they all mean.
Please download it and take a look at the zip file
Thanks

Ganbustein, I believe you have mis-interpreted what I said. My internet connection DOES TOTALLY GO AWAY, luckily never for hours but for 30 seconds to a few minutes a few times per hour.
In my previous apartment I NEVER experienced this, EVER! I could work un-interruptedly for days at a time. Here I cannot get anything done without being interrupted every hour at least once. I definitely know this is NOT normal internet behaviour

A 6 MB text file is way to too much for me (or I imagine anyone else) to look at.
(It's roughly equivalent to something like a 1000 page book.)
It's hard to believe that the log is really that big if in plain text - if it isn't plain text, then please make it so.

This is (see attachment) what the contents of that ZIP file look like. If you tell me which of these fils to attach here I will, I just didn't know where to start and that is what the Wireless Diagnostics app creates.

Notice the dates on the files.
The only files that are relevant are the ones from the time when you did the test. I.e. likely the most recent files.

For a start, system.log

Trevor

Ok I have uploaded the system.log, the wireless diagnostics log and the wifi log limited to the last 2 days
i hope these will provide a cue

Nothing jumps out at me in those logs as indicating a problem.
I think to track this down, you need to take careful note of the time when the problem occurs and tell us the time and supply logs from that time.

But it would also be useful if you were more precise about what the problem is - what exactly are the symptoms?

I will try to jot down the times but there are no symptoms, connection just stops working, nobody home... if I have the Airport Utility window open I see the internet world icon go from green to yellow

At 10.11 the internet went out and I launched Wireless Diagnostics
Between 10.11am and 10.17am the internet was basically out and consistently (if you loaded a page it would either not load at all or start loading and stop loading right away or display a broken page, maybe from cache? i don't know)...
Because Wireless Diagnostics restarts itself every time a connection is dropped I had to restart it several times so I am uploading multiple reports of that time period.
In the files you'll see multiple System logs, Wifi logs and Wireless Diagnostics logs with names like System.log system copy 1.log etc... they are not copies, they are the files created by multiple runs of the Wireless Diagnostics app.
Thanks guys!

Those logs (esp the wireless logs) show that you seem to have lost "WAN connectivity". I.e. that your Mac could not reach the wider Internet.

Now you need to find out if the problem is with the modem. Did the modem lose connectivity with the Internet at that time?
To find this out, you need to get access to the logs of the modem or else have been looking at the status lights of the modem at the time of the problem.

Or we can also use that longer cable and use a wired connection for a sustained period.. Did we do that already?

I've been using the Cat5 cable for the last two days and haven't had any noticeable drops of connectivity. I connected the ethernet cable to the back of the Airport Extreme.
I guess that means it's the Wifi signal itself, but what does that mean exactly and how can I fix it?

So to clarify, you've had your Mac connected via Ethernet to the Airport Extreme and had no problems - is that correct?
That would seem to indicate a problem with the wireless signal from the Airport Extreme.
But just to be sure, you previously were connecting via a wireless network provided by the Airport Extreme? And your modem is not providing a wireless network which you might have accidentally connected to.
Btw, you do have a password (preferably WPA2) on your wireless network?

I believe Hayne your summarizing correctly, OP of course can say best. Agreed we need to know also if the modem is also throwing out wireless that might interfere.

If I am recollecting correctly the distance is close so the main two possibilities are interference or buggy wifi software, not sure if there are generally current issues. I think all have problems at least periodically. ** Interference can be caused by other wireless device, microwaves, garage door openers, alarm systems, etc. Since the distance is line of site/fairly short without walls. Lets make sure your on the 5gz band which is much more immune to interference then 2.4ghz.

All correct.
Wire seems fine. Wireless drops out.
No garage, microwave or alarm systems anywhere near.
Modem does not do wireless and I do have a wpa2 password on the signal generated by Airport Express.
How would I switch to 5GHz?

One other consideration (not sure if that helps). I seem to have noticed that it seems to drop out more when both myself and my partner (on a PC) connect and work on our computers. Does that mean anything?

Thanks guys

Do not assume not close interference things means they do not cause issues. Do not forget also about other wireless routers, wireless phones, baby monitors, etc, etc.

Quick and Dirty you can hold down Option key and then go to Wifi Icon near the the top right of Menu Bar to the Right of blue tooth Indicator. This will give you a lot of details on how your connected at any one moment.

You Extreme does simultaneous Dual Band 2.4 and 5hz both... If your not automatically connecting to 5ghz you can force it. Go to Airport Utilty, Go to Wireless Tab, Wireless Options button, Check the Radio Button for 5ghz Wireless name and give the 5ghz band a different wireless name so that you can specifically connect to it.

Generally, this manual 5 ghz selection is not necessary and can cause minor hiccups since you are forcing a connection to 5ghz band which if it is to weak will cause a disconnect or poor browsing until you manually switch to 2.4ghz, when you do not specify separate names your suppose to hop back and forth automatically as needed.

In your situation it should work well manually selecting 5ghz or at least be an interesting test. Note 5ghz is faster and less prone to interference. However, 5ghz is much less able to penetrate walls or travel longer distances.

As to what you noticed about another client. Generally more wireless clients should not be an issue and your router is simultaneous dual band. However, if perhaps your on 2.4ghz more when your partner is online that might explain the bad behavior since that band is more prone to interference.

It could mean that your configurations (on one or both of those computers) is incorrect. For example, both of the computers could be trying to use the same IP address - that would cause huge problems. Check that the computers are set to use DHCP and that the DHCP server is the correct one - presumably the Airport Extreme.

I just tried switching the network in Airport Utility to 5Ghz only. I am on my Mac Book Pro and my partner is on her iPad and after about 10 min of internet on the 5Ghz there was a dropout again for a few minutes... I'm really at a loss

I am assuming you mean you set up in airport a 5ghz only option and name and you choose that option from your macbook Pro, and you still have disconnects.

I didn't see the option to create a separate secondary network so I selected 5Ghz only from the drop down menu in the wireless options and the AirPort Extreme went offline for a moment to update it's settings and then came back broadcasting at 5Ghz (I checked by option-clicking on the wifi icon as you had suggested)

Did you?
 

"Your Extreme does simultaneous Dual Band 2.4 and 5hz both... If your not automatically connecting to 5ghz you can force it. Go to Airport Utilty, Go to Wireless Tab, Wireless Options button, Check the Radio Button for 5ghz Wireless name and give the 5ghz band a different wireless name so that you can specifically connect to it."

Verify 2.4 vs. 5ghz connection

"....Hold down Option key and then go to Wifi Icon near the the top right of Menu Bar to the Right of blue tooth Indicator. This will give you a lot of details on how your connected at any one moment."

Hayne's thought about about DHCP and duplicate IP addresses is a possibility too but you need to test one theory at a time in Science..

I had read the instructions the first time but I find now Radio Button to create a 5Ghz wireless name in my Wireless options (see attachment to see what I see) so I just set the Radio Mode to 5Ghz only...

Hmm I have the current tower and Simultaneous Dual band and do not have that option. You most be using older airport software you were getting logs from? In theory that should work just as well if not better except if you need and 2.4 ghz clients.

At this point there are only a few possibilities..

1) IP conflict (you can manually do assignment, e.g. 192.168.1.15 or 16) and see what happens.

2) Defective wireless Airport Extreme

3) Defective wireless in device e.g. Macbook Pro (If you do not have disconnects on other routers has to be extreme)

4) Interference

Have we done an Air Port Extreme Reset to Factory Defaults?

You can also try taking your Extreme to an Apple Store if all else fails.

I think I am going to buy a new Airport Extreme from Apple and see if that fixes this. I can always return it if it doesn't.
I have just re-set my Airport Extreme to factory settings... Before I go out and I buy a new one, could you guys please take a look at my configuration and tell me if it looks ok? This is the default configuration, the only thing that I did is create a network with a WPA2 password.
Please see attached screenshots.

PS On a different notice, can a big battery create interference? I am asking because the only thing that is close to the Airport Extreme is my electric bike, which is of course off, but has a battery. All the other electronic devices in my house are at least 8 feet away (speakers) and microwave and oven are at least 20 feet away or more. Thanks

Thanks

here's more screenshots (the maximum number of uploads is 3 so I had to break it up into two posts)

Is the Router showing up Green in Airport status screen? Did you choose those settings or Did Apple's set up assistant? For many ISP provides a Switch/Router and your daisy chaining your Extreme onto their Switch/router the Network Tab would be set to OFF (Bridge Mode). If Apple choose the settings your probably fine..

You have used an Ethernet Patch Cord on the Lan Port of ISPs device to the WAN port of your Airport Extreme?

I would still use Opendns for the DNS settings.

Though not relevant I would also switch back to the current AirPort software. Radio wise depends on your equipment.

Good Luck.

To answer your questions:
- There is no router in my setup. There is only a modem and the Airport Extreme (which is my router)
- the Airport Extreme shows up Green when it works but goes to yellow when the internet drops out (and the world icon representing the internet goes to yellow as well during a dropout in connectivity).
- The settings you see are the default settings chosen by Apple's setup assistant.
- Yes I have a 1' cat 5 ethernet patch cord from the only port on my ISP's modem to the Airport Extreme port that has a star (the only one with a start out of the 5 ports)

- I have tried OpenDNS in the middle of all this troubleshooting but I saw now difference or improvement so when I reset the modem to factory settings I didn't bother to re-set that up but I might in the future.

2 questions:

- What do you mean by switching back to the current AirPort software? That is the most current airport utility software (6.3.2)

- Should I try setting the Switch/router setting in the Network Tab to Bridge Mode or leave it as Apple's assistant set it?

I would leave it on the Defaults as it pretty good at detecting the correct settings. I asked about the Patch cable to make sure it was "seeing" correctly:)

Could not see from screen shots the current version thought you had switched back to 5.x for testing.

Note that ISP equipment can be a router even if it does not do wireless. But I get it you have a "cable modem" with a single Ethernet port, so I believe all you have is correct.

Open Dns should speed up browsing but would not fix connectivity issues unless they were caused by DNS which they do not appear to be.

Note that my Internet/World Icon is Yellow sometimes when I first launch Airport software, seems to evaluate and display prior to checking real status.

Don't forget you can try Manual addressing as a test too. That is take note of your computers. Ip address, e.g. which I presume from your screen shot is somewhere between 10.0.1.2 to 200.

Hayne's theory was perhaps you were getting IP conflicts. Actually manual assignment is another way to get them. That said you can try (after testing your Extreme for a while assuming the problem is still present ) Manually on your computer changing the IP address to an address in the range above. I would try for the tail end of 190 to 200 to avoid conflicts. There is probably nothing in your home above 10.

Thanks for the reply.
I've been keeping Airport Utility open next to my browser and every once in a while, while it's open, not just when I first launch Airport Utility, the world icon or the Airport Extreme icon or both go yellow and the connectivity is lost.

As to your last point, are you saying I should put the three computers in the house as well as the ipad and the iphones on specific IP's and manually set them to something like 10.0.1.190? Would I do that from the Network/TCP/IP preferences? And would I have to set the IPv4 Address to that? or the Router address (which is currently 10.0.1.1)? And should I be doing this Manual configuration to the IPv4 or the IPv6 addresses?

Not sure you can trust what is displayed in Airpot Utility moment to moment. I believe I have seen similar, though not routinely had any "real" connectivity issues.

The manual addressing was following up what Hayne mentioned. And you would likely have gotten a message alerting you to an IP conflict if it was happening. The change if you want to make it would be from Network settings of each computer or iPad, etc. You would replace configure with DHCP with Configure with DHCP with manual address and then choose an address toward the end of the range that is unlikely to ever be handed out.... And Yes those are all IP4.

Since your only seeing the drop outs that I am aware of on your Macbook Pro, make the change there.

Just to clarify the dropouts are for all my home's devices. When it goes out it goes out for everyone and it stays out for between a few and as long as 10-20 min. All iPads, iPhones, macs and the one PC are down

Hmm and this behavior never exhibited at least on the Macbook Pro while wired to the Airport Extreme?

If it never occurred wired we can not blame the ISP.

And of course were back to devices are or Extreme. There is no harm in doing the manual IP test. You need only do it on one device you use frequently to be an effective test.

Then if your still having issues it makes sense to try another router. You certainly can bring yours to the Apple Store to inquire while your buying the new one to test with.

** Almost forgot did this always happen with this Extreme** ?

Yes this always happened with the same Extreme, which I bought back in 2007.
I took it to Apple and they said that because it's so old it's "vintage", hence unsupported, so they can't even fix it.
I bought a new one and I am not on it. There is a 14 day return policy so I will keep testing the connection on the new one and if it doesn't go out in the next 2 weeks I'll know it was the antenna of the old one (since it seemed to work when I used a cat5 into the old one).
I'll report back in a week or so... hopefully this works cause if it doesn't I have not idea what to do next!
Thanks for all your help, support and patience guys! You are all amazing to donate your time to strangers like me and I really appreciate that!

Good Luck. There are other pages but here is a breakdown on the different extremes...
7 years is a long time for a router. The age would explain some of the config differences I believe. Do not forget to flash the new one up its new firmware. You will get prompted from Airport Utility. Do note that there have been quite a number of different models of the Square (5) before the current 6th Gen Tower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPort_Extreme

Big battery? No.

Microwave, yes possibly.

Things more than 20 feet away? Yes, definitely.

For example, a cordless phone. Bluetooth stuff. Wireless headphones. etc. etc. etc.

Trevor

The age and your link explain why it didn't do 2.4 and 5Ghz at the same time but only one or the other...

Thanks for the info Trevor.
My microwave has not been on any of the times the internet was lost.
I do have a cordless phone but I unplugged it for a few days as part of the testing.

I shall report back on the new latest tower extrme

I have a feeling you will do well with the new one.

Interference can come from way more then 20 feet away. All the Neighbors, Garage door openers, Microwaves, cordless phones, Baby monitors, wireless alarm systems, etc etc.

Unfortunately I have to report that my bad luck with this connection continues...
I've set up a new Aiport Extreme network at 5Ghz and one at 2.4Ghz. Right now I am on the 5Ghz one with my laptop and my partner is on her iPad with the 2.4GHz one and we have two iphones and the internet keeps cutting out (see attachment)... The only difference I notice is that with the new Airport Extreme the AirPort Extreme light never goes yellow (it stays green even when the Internet icon goes yellow).
I don't know what else to try... Please help...

I'd call your ISP for support since it seems likely that the problem is with the modem. Maybe you can get a new modem?

I've already called them, they came, tested the line and the modem and claimed everything was fine...

I don't know if this makes any sense, but it seems to me that it happens when both my partner and I are online at the same time, it almost never happens when I am browsing alone at home... weird

That sounds like it might be an issue with both of your computers trying to get an IP address from the ISP when the ISP only provides one IP address.

Make sure that your computers are configured to get their IP addresses from your Airport Extreme or other local router - not from the ISP. IP addresses are assigned by the DHCP server so it is the DHCP server settings that you want to check.

Check that your computers' IP addresses are in the range supplied by the local router (usually 10.x.x.x or 192.168.x.x)

Also check whether you have your Airport Extreme set up to do NAT or to "bridge" to some other router.

I would still keep a new router because your old one was really old....

Agree with Hayne, this goes back to trying manual addressing the outside of the range that is normally handed out. If I remember correctly you Airport is handing out addresses not the cable modem. Note the suggestion from prior about creating a second network was because of interference. Of course there is no harm in doing that if 5ghz reception is good but know that if it is not good that too will cause hiccups as the device that is on 5 network will not auto hop to 2.4 seamlessly.

I would also repeat your wired test periodically to make sure that the issue is really not the ISP.
***** Even if your line is supposedly fine some extended pleasant speaking can often net you new cable modems, which can help. It is still possible the cable modem and airport are not getting along perfectly.

Lastly though Airport auto detected the settings there is not harm in confirming the correct settings with provider, perhaps after they cough up the new equipment.

If I understand this correctly, the Airport Extreme gets one IP from the cable modem and then distributes the other IPs to the devices wirelessly.
I do have the Router Mode set to DHCP and NAT.
Here are my settings on the new Airport Extreme.

and the other three windows

Yes, but what are (all) the computers configured to do (re IP address, DHCP server, etc)?
E.g. if one of the computers is (wrongly) configured to get its IP address from the ISP's DHCP server, then that would (effectively) take that one IP address away from the Airport Extreme.

How can I check if any of the computers are configured that way? Both the MacBook Pro and the iPad are just set to their defaults

By the way I just found the cable modem's config page by accessing 192.168.100.1

here are screenshots of the current configuration
let me know if you see any red flags
thanks

and the last two

If you lose ALL wireless, and any wired, then maybe the cable modem is just not working reliably.
When you realize that you have a dropout - Have you verified, by browsing the 'net on any other device, that OTHER devices/phones, etc, also lose the internet?
If you rent the modem from TimeWarner - consider contacting them for a replacement unit.

when the internet drops out no devices work at all!
unfortunately I bought the modem so TWC won't give me a different one

Just to double-check - when you have a dropout, are your devices STILL connected to the network (your AE), but simply have no internet, and won't load internet pages?

I'm a bit confused about your setup. It might help if you drew a rough (even using ASCII text) diagram showing what is connected to what (and how - Ethernet / WiFi /etc)

In particular, I think those latest screenshots show that your modem is providing a wireless network. Usually you don't want it to do that if you have an Airport Extreme. Usually you connect the Airport Extreme to the modem by Ethernet and disable all wireless functionality on the modem.
(Not that this is causing your problems - but simpler is better when it comes to networking)

Hello Hayne,
as far as I can tell the modem doesn't have wireless capabilities... I could be wrong but if you google "motorola sb6141" it doesn't call it a wireless modem or wireless router or anything like that...

here's a diagram:


internet >(coaxial)> Motorola modem >(RJ 45 cat 5 patch cord)> Airport Extreme >(wireless)> all other devices

For the record, I do also have a VoIP phone that connects via RJ45 cat 5 cable to the Airport Extreme but for the sake of testing the dropouts it's been turned off and disconnected from the airport extreme and from the wall/power to make sure it wasn't causing interferences and I have had it disconnected for the last week trying to test everything as thoroughly as I can

Here is the spec sheet
 

Here is the spec sheet no wireless. The info that was hard to read in the screen shots the hz that caught there eyes was of the the DOCS Cable signal not Wifi.

http://www.arrisi.com/modems/datashe...Data_Sheet.pdf

I do not have too much else to add the moment. Hayne and Delta are great. Truly that assuming their is nothing wrong with the Surfboard which does NOT provide routing capabilities of its own wired or wireless.

Your provider would be the best to answer how to best set up. Normally the Airport would do its job and give you the correct settings and you I assume have all the clients set under network to DHCP not putting in any custom settings other then connecting to the wifi and putting in the password.

The fact that the signal drops and seems sensitive to more then one device being on seems to belie what Hayne indicated about multiple IPs or conflicts.

I am not very good on PC so I don't know where to check on the PC but even when the PC is off the internet drops out when it's just my Mac Book Pro and our iPad that are connected and I have definitely checked the settings for those two and they are all set to automatic and no manual DHCP or IP settings

A few other notes I searched elsewhere for you. There a number of threads that point to settings or bad surfboards. Some said IPV6 had to be on. There were of course many different issues some physical with the hook up from RR to the Surfbaord. Hayne or Delta may have other ideas. But if not I would:

A) Find out exactly how RR or Time warner recommend setting up the surfboard and Airport Extreme (they should be able to tell you what settings to use even if they are not able to tell you specifically about your extreme).

B) Failing that you may need to switch modems.

For the record my Dad has Time Warner and Airport Extreme and no issues. I will take note when I visit which Modem they gave him, he rents. I can also check his settings. Note though that I think you have RR and he time warner though their almost the same company.

Lastly I would not think it would be a bad idea to whine and have them come back out since you keep have service drops. You can even keep a log and tell them about how often per day since your keeping such carful track.

IP conflict is possible but only would toast the two machine conflicting not all the devices in the house.

One last thought. My father's connection use to suck. It was slow, painfully so. He eventually upgraded to their higher tier of service. Sounds silly but they might latterly be bandwidth starving you and hence the issue with more then one device.

I do have Time Warner, like your dad, it shows up as RR.nyc.com but it is TimeWarner and my bills come from TimeWarner.
If you could let me know which modem he has so I could maybe try that that would be great.
Thanks

Will do. Please re-read the end of my last post because I edited while you were posting back.

I have already done that. I am paying for Turbo service and I have a good upload/download speed, in fact when the tech came and checked that he was impressed I was getting as much as I was getting when he did the speed test

Fair enough. Will get you what info I can from my fathers.

thanks a lot!

My father was given a Ubee DVW3201 which is Cable Modem and Router though he does not use. Have not had the opportunity to check his Airport settings but I suspect there on the defaults I left them on long ago, I will try to get on there soon.

This hardware was given to him has part of the upgrade when he upgraded his service. I do not know what the Rental fee is. I do not remember a separate fee I believe it was part of the contract cost for monthly internet.