iBook HD install (multiple questions)
 

Hi all.

I've just been given a 10+ year old iBook G4. The HD is severely acting up. It needs a new boot drive.

Was thinking about buying a 2nd-hand HD from an old PC because brand new PATA drives aren't being sold in this country that I can see. Assuming that I can get it installed properly without damaging the iBook's internals, would I be able to re-format it, while in Target Disc Mode, from my Intel Mac mini? It will probably come as either NTFS, or FAT32, so I'm concerned that the Mac mini might not even see the drive in Target Disc Mode. The shop will be able to re-format the drive for me, but they are PC only, so it's likely they won't have the ability to do APM and Mac OS Extended (Journaled).

Of course, the previous owner has lost the all important install CDs, so that's not an option. More on that later…

Anything I should be wary of during the installation process? Any dip switches (master / slave), or drive height issues?

I have replaced a bunch of iBook G4 hard drives.
It's really challenging to do.
Keep yourself organized, with a good way to keep track of all the screws - there will be about 50 to remove by the time you get to the hard drive, and the iBook is pretty much dismantled then.
No jumpers on a laptop drive, the ribbon cable connects across everything.
Laptop PATA drives were not available beyond 320GB, IIRC, and height shouldn't be an issue in the iBook installation.

Yes, you could reformat the drive in the iBook with Target Disk mode from the mini.
Just make sure that it doesn't try to format as GUID.
You can go with Leopard, if you have the installer for that. Best to max out the RAM. The one slot can take up to 1GB, plus whatever is on the logic board.
Do you know which processor you have? Should be on a label when you lift up the keyboard.

That's some really good information DeltaMac. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

I've taken apart my PowerBook G4 for an HD replacement, but never this iBook, if memory serves. It wasn't what I'd call easy, but definitely do-able.

Now that you mention it, I have got a retail family-pack Leopard DVD here (with one more license!) which I thought I wouldn't be able to use. I'd rather go with Tiger, or better yet Panther, just to keep the system running as quickly as possible, but until I can get my hands on one of those, Leopard will work nicely.

I also made a clone of the iBook's last working installation just before the HD completely stopped cooperating, so once the new drive has been installed, then formatted, I can clone it back over. That was a Tiger installation.

The PATA drives I'm looking at are either 20, 40, or 60 GB. No luck finding a source for 320 GB drives. Not a huge deal to me. I'm on a tight budget right now anyway. Otherwise, I'd order a new 80 GB variant from the US.

It's got a 933 MHz G4. Not sure yet about the RAM, but I'll find out once inside.

Next question: Toast images.

A few years back, I actually made a copy of all the iBook's install CDs (the previous iBook owner is a client and friend of mine), but the disc images were created using Toast, and they look like this >

Will I need the Toast application to burn these images onto a disc, and would that be version specific? Ideally, I'd not need to hunt down the correct version of Toast, and would combine all the CD images onto a single DVD using CCC or Disk Utility.

Yeah, it should be "disk" with a k. It was very late last night when I posted that.

Okay, the search engine thing does work sometimes :). Just found this thread about the Toast images. Now just gotta find a way to possibly combine them into a single DVD image, if possible.

Yep, doable!

New laptop size PATA drives aren't being made in your country (or anywhere else for that matter) anymore. Western Digital is the only one still making PATA drives, if laptop form factor is amongst the models they aren't advertizing very well.

It's a 10 year old computer. Is it worth the effort? At the bare minimum test it with an external in a firewire case to see if the logic board and screen are ok, and that it can do basic things like browse the net without crashing.

Worth it? Yes!

There are several PPC software applications that I'd like to have access to again. It was my mistake selling the PowerBook G4, but now this has appeared, so it's opened those doors back up. Really, I'd like to fix it, sell it, and just buy the latest version Mac mini which had a G4 processor.

Yeah, miraculously, I was able to get it to boot a few times before the HD went completely bonkers, and it worked surprisingly well. I didn't test everything mind you, but nothing jumped out as being seriously broken.

I am a little worried that the AHT is missing. Had a look around the invisible files for it on all of those Toast images, but saw nothing resembling the AHT. The AHT for this iBook model is still not downloadable from Apple either, for whatever bizarre reason.

You'll be challenged by replacing the hard drive in your iBook.
On a scale of 1 to 5, most PowerBook hard drives will be about a 2 (except for 12-inch PowerBooks.
Your iBook G4 would be above 4, particularly if you have not done one before.

You don't need to take the case apart to look at the RAM slot. Just release the latches on the keyboard (top row, a couple of keys from the corners, flip up the keyboard to the wristrest, then remove the Airport card form it's slot. There's a wire frame that holds it in place. And then remove four screws that hold the panel where the airport card was installed. The RAM slot is under that panel.
Those first iBook G4's have 128 MB permanently installed. The one slot can have up to 1 GB more. You'll want at least a 512 MB stick to make Leopard work reasonably well.

Yeah, it was a 12 incher.

Thanks for the heads up. If I can get the AHT working, that, I think, will tell me how much RAM is in there without having to rearrange my workspace more than once.

When I've done this, I've bought a bunch of pill cups and lined them up to hold screws, then for each step of the way in I put the screw sets in one of the cups. When I'm reassembling, I take the screws from the cups in reverse order.

Also good for holding ketchup while you dip your fries!

Or cough medicine, antacid preparations, relish, tartar sauce, etc.

All joking aside, that's a good idea. I'd probably like to number them on the bottom just in case they get blown / kicked out of place. No idea where to find those cups, but someplace like McDonalds, or KFC, might have them.

I'm a fan of plastic ice cube trays for holding screws. The cube grid "keeps track" of disassembly steps and can be labeled if you choose.

I found them in a Pharmacy. They're for holding pills.

Oh, right. I just remembered that I've got several of those pill holders which are arranged like an ice cube tray, but with a lid. That should do the trick.

Hmm… Leopard DVD not booting the iBook. Two times, the screen just went dark, and I guess the computer shut down. Two times, I got the Open Firmware screen which said: "Invalid memory access at > %SRR0: string of letters %SRR1: string of numbers.

Perhaps that's because there's not enough RAM to hold the contents of the DVD? If I were to combine those CDs onto a single DVD, would I encounter a similar problem?

…or maybe it's just got bad RAM.

It looks like the iBook may have been going dark due to bad PMU settings. I reset that, and the Leopard DVD tried to boot for a very long time, several hours, but with no errors. I shut it down before heading off to bed with no progress beyond the spinning grey gear.

Discovered that I had made a bootable TechTool Pro 5 DVD, but assumed that it wouldn't work on the iBook. Tried it anyway, and it booted right up. Verdict: Everything I could check came back normal after several passes. RAM is at 640 MB, which, I guess, is why the Leopard DVD wouldn't boot up.

Any tests related to the HD's integrity were unavailable of course, and by the way, the HD isn't just non-functional, it vibrates incessantly. It sounds like an electric razor sitting on a hard surface. Very annoying, and also very odd.

...and I'm having one bitch of a time getting these boot discs copied. Tried all sorts of techniques, but iBook spits them all back out. Content is being burnt onto the discs, but they're not bootable.

Hi all, I'm back.

The iBook has now got a brand new 60 GB hard drive, and a brand new 1 GB RAM module. It's running smooth as silk!

The HD showed up right away in FireWire Target Disk Mode. Discs in the iBook's SuperDrive show up right away on my Mac mini. I was able to clone the previous bootable OS (Tiger) back onto the internal drive to get it to boot, and that's working fine too. TechTool Pro 5 boots the iBook and the tests all show normal.

…and, miraculously, I am able to connect to the internet (and download software updates from Apple's servers)!

Here's the problem: When I try to boot the iBook using my retail Leopard DVD, I get either a decrementer exception error message in the Open Firmware screen (usually if I've taken the battery out), or the DVD will try to boot for a long while and then the iBook just turns itself off.

What's going on here?

Is the Leopard DVD supposed to support PowerPC models (like the G4)?

Good question. I thought of that too. Seems to me that I had this DVD (family pack) which was installing itself onto PPC and Intel alike. The instructions on the DVD itself indicate that it's Universal Binary.

How about if I created a separate partition on the internal HD and somehow clone the DVD onto it so that when I reboot the iBook, it sees that DVD image as bootable? That would eliminate possible problems originating at the optical drive.

Any other suggestions?

Have you reset Open Firmware? Boot to OF by holding down Command-Option-O-F at boot. You'll see a text screen with a white background and gray text. At the prompt, type

reset-nvram (and hit Return)
reset-all (and hit Return)

The computer should reboot.

Trevor

About two dozen times over the past month.

Holy mackerel, it worked!

Restored the Leopard DVD onto a separate partition while the iBook was in FW TDM, and it actually booted into the installer. Same data on both discs, so what should I attribute the failure to? A bad optical drive? Problems on the logic board? A firmware glitch?

It was a PITA. I wouldn't say it was particularly difficult, but just very looong, long like the Lord of the Rings, and complex. I split it up over two or three sessions, and I recommend at least taking a sandwich break in the middle there.

On top of the already lengthy procedure, I found that some Thai technician who worked on this before me had put several screws back in the wrong order and wrong configuration. I had to take extra time to backtrack and re-order the screws, take things back apart, and extract one screw that got stuck because it was in the wrong position (not easy!).

If you want something done right, you really have got to do it yourself, especially over here. I think all screws are now in order though.

The most difficult thing for me was finding just the right tool to pull out some of the cables with the tiny plastic sockets. Apparently, you can't just pull those cables out with your fingers. I was able to bend a paper clip into the right shape, but it certainly was not optimal.

Gotta give credit where it's due: iFixit's guide was the key. I followed it closely, and it provided all of the necessary information.

Hmmmmm. Bad optical drive is possible, as is a dirty lens on the optical drive. Perhaps try running a cleaning disc through your existing optical drive before you try replacing it.

I doubt it's the logic board, and since you reset Open Firmware, it shouldn't be any problem with that either.

Trevor

Okay, but remember that my TTPro 5 disc boots the machine right up, no problems. I'm also reading that exact same Leopard DVD while in FW TDM with no problems. Your guess could be correct, but it seems not highly probable.

Don't these DVD writers (SuperDrives) have firmware of their own? I was guessing that the problem might be there if somehow it got out of whack. The reset command from the open firmware screen, does that affect the firmware of the SuperDrive too? I was under the impression that it does not.

Very common for Leopard DVDs to read OK, but really struggle to actually boot.
I have burned numerous copies of Leopard installer disks, even brand new out of the box, where the original may boot with errors, or not even boot at all. Burning a copy usually will give you a working disk.
It's also a good reason that I have the Leopard installer on its own partition on a Firewire external drive. MUCH more reliable, and faster install, too.

Yes, the DVD writers have firmware of their own. It's far less sophisticated firmware than the Open Firmware present in your iBook. If there were a problem with the SuperDrive firmware, you could look for a program to reflash it, but I doubt that that is the problem, and I also doubt that you can do much about it if is were the problem.

And of course you're right that nothing you do in Open Firmware will have any effect on the firmware in your Superdrive.

Trevor

Agreed--not highly probable.

Trevor

Thanks for taking the time to give input here guys.

This iBook is now just about 11 years old, but running Leopard really takes it into the golden age of Mac OS X. (We're now post-golden age, if you ask me.)

Anyway, next question would be: Anybody want to buy an iBook? :) As much as I love having this guy up and running, I really would prefer to have a Mac mini of the same era. Will have to find a local buyer since shipping costs will eat up all the profit.