Where is everybody?
 

Things have been slow on this site lately despite the OS X userbase being larger than ever. Why do you think that is?

For me, it's #3-5 but mostly #4. I still have a Mac but I'm mainly using Linux these days.
I like this site because signal:noise is high and there is less mindless cheerleading than other mac sites but once my last Mac dies, I won't really have a reason to come back.

It probably is a sign of the quality of OS X. Though, there's certainly no shortage of people asking questions and finding system hacks in other venues.

Overall, to be honest, I think it's the quality of the site. The Hints site hasn't seen nearly as much attention since being transferred to MacWorld: there are fewer and less interesting posted hints, eliminated promotions, being forced to answer questions before viewing content; broken forum features: RSS, Tapatalk, periodic spam attacks.

With the site going down hill, there are other sites taking up the slack. Check out the apple, ios, mac, etc. subs on Reddit.

I don't know what's really causing the slow-down; in my gut I feel like it's because MacWorld has starved the community, but when I stop to think about it that just feels to simplistic. They certainly haven't helped anything.

How does one discover the site these days? (I don't know 'cause I come here directly).
I monitor the site via RSS, and respond when I think I can help.
When I have a question and search google, I get a rendition of the site (among many other hits), that is parsed, and suffused with ads. It certainly doesn't encourage a new person to register and participate.

I've commented before that sites like MacRumors forums have thousands of posts, though I've stopped going there because there are some mindless shagwits who spoil it, and the amount of time I spend providing basic answers to googlable (new word) problems offers me little in return.

So it's not that Mac users have no problems anymore. :p

I suspect it may well be that this is not an appealing site for many people, which is a shame. I have learnt a lot here, and hopefully returned the favour

From the "Hello? Anyone there?" thread:

Seriously. 10 days? It's going to get even quieter at that rate. And it seems like that's the plan.

Agreed. Even simple queries are going unanswered. I am curious as to why things are so quiet as well.

Check any search engine for the terms "Mac Help" or "Mac Hints." Only "hints forum" bring up this site on top and the first two terms won't bring up this site on the first couple pages.

Almost like this site has been ostracized. MacWorld not our friend?

Agree.... simple questions not stated very well by a newbie often go unanswered. If the question sits for a day or so, the poster never checks back.

I agree, except that you need to know the required search terms and I nearly always don't.

So, Mate, if you don't mind my asking, what TZ are you in? I imagine that you are somewhere in the southern 48,yes?

Yours always, now in Middle Thailand. ( we moved)
Gavin

Yup, Southern part of the Southern 48... Central Standard Time (GMT minus 4 or 5 depending on Daylight Savings Time).

I would really hate to see this forum slide into obscurity. One can always get sound advice/solutions and, as noted above, without all the noise from advertisements, unthinking responders, etc.

When I see a newbie post, I almost never respond because I consider myself one of the least knowledgeable and most retired persons on the forum and I think it better to wait for one of the pro's to jump in.... then sometimes they don't.

And the quality of the main hints site is getting a bit rubbish. The last few hints have been placed in questionable categories, and some of the recent hints have not been checked, seemingly. And there's quite a few that are verging on the blindingly obvious.

What can we, "relatively" long-timers, do then, to reinvigorate things?

As an observation, I think things started going titsup when the site was sold. That is not a criticism, just an observation. Without naming names, a lot of the Old Hands just don't seem to be around anymore.

Take it somewhere else? How much does it cost to host a forum these days?

Think I'd start with taking a look at the key words on the web page.... make sure things like "Mac Help," as well as iPhone, iPad, etc. are all easily available for the search engines to find and identify.

Don't want to do that. This place is a great resource and has a good membership.

Maybe Macs are too reliable these days? ;-)

This is a screenshot from a bit of the main hints site. Still highlighting Mountain Lion hints, and offering to show us what MacWorld has been saying about Lion.

Someone is asleep at the tiller.
http://hintsforums.macworld.com/atta...achmentid=4727

Nearly 92,000 members, but Active Members are down to 585!

Hmm....

While I'm an avid follower of this site (have a hot key combo for it), I think and have said before that social media are cutting into this niche with people getting help from their friends. Further, though, as OS X matures it supports fewer and fewer customizations so people don't screw up (in a little knowledge, dangerous thing way) as often and the tools for getting out of trouble work better too.

I think the part I miss a lot is activity here in the Coat Room. We used to have some dandy debates here ably monitored by Arctic Stones (an amiable Norwegian fellow with whom I have actually had lunch when he visited Halifax, Nova Scotia). Aside from a few mad men, those were quite good.

Is Arctic still about?

Arctic Stones lives in Norway where he's an advertising copywriter and Norwegian-to-English translator of user manuals and advertising material. His daughter went to University here in Halifax (Language) and he came to visit, hence our meeting. He's no longer active on this forum because he's been very busy for the last several years. We communicate sporadically by email.

MacRumors has 863,398 members.

How is this place a great resource? And how would moving the site lose good membership?

How may on the MR site are Active?

This site has been a great resource for many years and is well moderated and polite, even in the face of diametric disagreements.

I, for one, am not moving.

MacWorld has been a great resource, except for all the things you guys mentioned earlier that have been contributing to the forum's slow, but certain demise. You seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth. I don't understand why. MacWorld is not a great resource when the way it runs the forum retards the growth of the forums. (Are we really having this discussion? How could you possibly not be connecting the dots on this?)

I hope you don't have to move. But I look at the trajectory, and it seems like you get to stay where you are, while the site disappears.

Actually, seesolve, it seems to be an almost universal trait that techie forums bloom slowly and then fade away even more slowly just as Microsoft and Research in Motion have in the techie corp world.

For one thing, the founders of these sites lose interest and stop fanning the flames, sell out, or try to rejuvenate in a way that offends the old hands. For another, an initially successful site soon attracts competitors that dilute the interest group. That's certainly happened here. Sometimes forums are overpowered by a small group who by sneering at the lesser lights, drive them away. I won't give an example, but that hasn't happened here. These sites virtually never make money for their owners so they're hard to justify.

Interesting Nova - which competitors popped up after the launch of this place then? I was a latecomer at 2004.

I'm pretty sure GavinBKK was stating that the Hints site has been a great resource and it would be a shame to see it die. I agree there. I can't point to a single thing MacWorld has done that has improved anything here, but I still hope it doesn't disappear. (Anyone want to scrape the site into an archive?)

The best thing they've done is not shutting the site down overnight without warning. (Was anyone here active on the MacAddict Forums when that happened?)

Surely just a bit more participation is all that's needed to keep things ticking along, always assuming the owners don't shitcan it as you mentioned that could have done?

I don't recall when various sites appeared. I joined in 2004 too when I retired and had time. But as an example, I administer an AppleScript site (not much admin to do really) that hints cut into when it added the AppleScript topic. Apple itself competes with both a site and a list. The guy who owns that site has cut it back significantly (some of its sections are no longer available) so he could start two others that earn him an income. I can't blame him -- what started eons ago as a labor of love was getting more expensive to host on a colocation machine that needed upgrading and he retired from his regular job after a heart attack.

I just noticed that I have become a League Commissioner. Apparently that happens at 5000 posts. Didn't realize I was such a blabbermouth (although my wife would refute that).

As would mine, but she is Thai and never stops yakking anyway, so pots and kettles!

Although I was here, I struggle to remember what Thais did before the advent of the mobile phone.

Remove mobile phones, chrome poles and mirrors from this place and they"d all go mad!
;-)

I'm pretty new on here so hope it doesn't go away.
I've no idea why it's quiet and have always had answers to questions, I have to agree with someone else on here though who blamed social media. I wonder if all forums are noticing a difference? We're living in an age where you can ask something on twitter and get replies immediately, that's not the same as chatting though.

Agreed, but the "instant" answers on many of these SM alternatives aren't always thought through and/or necessarily correct.

For instance, I saw someone asking (on one of my Military Vehicle forums) how to run in ("break-in") a newly rebuilt engine and he got told to start it up and revv the **** out of it for 20 minutes!!??

In case you don't know, that is an awful long way away from mech eng best practise.

An interesting question. My 2 chosen HD fora are much quieter than when I first joined them, only 18 months ago.

I think that the interaction you might get on something like twitter isn't as deep, or informative, as that you would get on a forum. Forums can be more specific, other types of social media are just too generic.
I'm not on many forums but have noticed that the ones I do look at are a lot quieter. Maybe it's something that comes and goes in waves, I haven't been involved in them long enough to know.

One of the great beauties of a forum like this one is that the answers seem to be well thought out and authentic, never of the "rev the **** out of it" kind. Certainly I've seen disagreement on best courses of action but they are matters of priority not polar opposites.

PS: run the engine in normal service without taking it to extremes, i.e., don't red line it or lug it.

Interesting that you use that analogy Nova.

I just had someone advise exactly that on a Military Vehicle forum when a chap asked how to run in (North American translation: "Break-in") his newly rebuilt engine in his M151 A1. It took quite some explaining that that was a long way from engineering best practise and just because that's what F1 teams did, it was not done because they expected the engine to last a long time!

Running in (breaking in) a new engine or a rebuilt is hardly necessary any more anyway. I have rebuilt several engines (in a 1934 V-8 Ford coupe & a 1936 straight-6 Chevy sedan) and a 4-cylinder boat engine. Assuming that cylinder liners have been honed, valve seats ground, and badly scored shafts have been replaced or ground smooth, new rings are installed, main bearings and wrist pins brought up to spec, etc., with the use of modern artificial lubricants, you can just use the engine normally and you shouldn't find an oil plug covered in filings.

Sorry mate. I'll argue that one with you until I'm in my box.

Nicely, of course! ;-)

There will always be dissent on that score, GavinBKK. I will agree that rebuilt gearboxes and differentials need careful handling until they wear in, but I replaced the cam shaft in an old VW bug years ago and without any special treatment drove it for many more years. I suppose it depends on what you've done to it. I will admit, however, that I haven't repaired a car engine since 1970 when they began to bristle with anti-pollution gear that I didn't understand. Having said that, however, I have a 2012 Honda CRV and a 2013 Honda Odyssey and neither of them came with any break-in instructions.

Modern materials technology makes it less important, but not unimportant.

On the older vehicles, it's still vital.

I have had several new vehicles in my life and the only one that came with such instructions was my Harley. The others just came with a bit of verbal from the dealership.

I confess, GavinBKK, that in spite of a complete lack of break-in instructions, I was (because I always am) fairly gentle for the first few and subsequent miles. Decent gas mileage requires gentle anticipatory driving. Given gentle driving, I usually get long life from my tires and brakes as well. I don't mean that I'm one of those slow pokes that drive you nuts at traffic stops, I just don't floor it for a getaway or slam on the brakes to stop it.

I used to have a toy car which had a sticker in the back window saying "Running in", which my father said cars used to do in the 50s and 60s.
I have seen only about four cars in my life with such a sticker -- one of them recently on a Rover P6, and unlikely to be still running in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_P6

Modern engineering tolerances are such that the need for running in on new "hardware" is non-existent. (Whether that applies to Detroit.... ;-) )

Three decades back or so, new Detroit cars came with a "break in oil" in the engine. Drivers were advised to drive easy and to not maintain a constant speed (vary speeds) for the first 1,000 miles. After that, you would change out the break in oil for your regular oil and install a new filter. Besides breaking in the engine, this was supposed to make sure that any medal shavings or other debris left over from the manufacturing process were removed.

My last couple new ones, going back to 1990 did not come with those instructions.

Also gone are the instructions to let your car warm up at idle for 5 minutes before driving.

Of course, AEH, the reason for the last is pollution-driven. A cold engine idling doesn't heat up the catalytic converter fast enough to meet pollution standards.