Panther and Fink
 

What is the recommended way to deal with Fink and Panther? My install is all compiled from source. I assume I need to do a recompile with the new dev tools...

Thanks,
Hugh

most executables will still run fine.

why do you think a recompile is necessary? you don't have to re-install all your other apps, right?

it would be a pretty shoddy OS if for every upgrade, one had to re-install new binaries.

You are right, actually I don't know how soon a new binary distribution will be ready, but if people can't wait for the bindist, they can just install packages from source.

The developers are putting package description files into the 10.3 tree so that part should be ready. And nobody's going to be forced to use unstable this time as "10.3-stable" actually has packages in it.

The change looks much smoother this time than for the 10.1-->10.2 transition.

merv,

Thanks, I use mostly the fink networking tools and they seem to all use the same libs. I'm assuming that once I compile anything against the new tools it will all need to be compiled against the new tools.

Bad assumption?

sao,

Thanks, I have a fast connection and a fast compiler. I do not have loads of customizations or loads of software. I mostly use the networking tools. Perhaps the best option is just to reinstall...

yellow,

Thanks, I looked at that link but I was not real sure of it's ramifications. Am I reading right that all items should be compiled against the same compiler?

Hugh

Only if you want to. Truth is, you don't need to delete and reinstall unless you want to go that way. You can just start "now" recompiling your network tools from the 10.2-gcc3.3 tree (first update to the latest dev-tools) and for later packages anyhow you will use the future fink panther-tree.

eh?

okay, example, nmap is /sw/bin/nmap

the binary executable nmap version 3.26 built on fink/10.2 works fine on 10.3 - in other words, these tools don't hork because of a new OS version underneath. the previous version of the compiler/linker made reasonable executables for the architecture.

most commando tools, the same. no need to recompile.

new tools/compiles may be problematic; yet to be seen.

Right. Some packages will not need to be recompiled. But, some will--those which have C++ code in them do.

Those packages which don't require rebuilding will hopefully be left intact--apart from any LibSystem changes Apple throws at us. :)



From the information I gathered, probably the upgrade path would be:

1- Update Fink to the latest release.

2- Install in 10.2.8 the updated Dev Tools (gcc 3.3)

3- Rebuild those packages which need to be rebuilt. (If they aren't in the 10.2-gcc3.3 tree, they don't need rebuilding)

4- Install MacOS X 10.3

5- Do any further updates that are needed.

merv,

Good explanation - I can understand that.

Sao,

Now that's what I'm looking for... :)

Thanks,
Hugh

Okay, so what do I do if I've just done an Erase and Install of 10.3??? Do I need to install the "Xcode Tools" or some other recent version of the Dev. Tools? And then do I wait for a new version of Fink that's made for Panther?

Oh, and are there any known ramifications of installing Virex [7.2] again? When in this process could I do that (or is it no longer an issue with Fink)?

Sorry, hope you all are still monitoring this thread; thanks for helping out a lost soul!!!

John-o

Actually, I just launched Virex and it worked without problems. This without having copied back my /sw directory saved from my Jaguar install...

And btw, is there any point in bringing that old /sw directory back into the mix now?

Thanks again,
John-o

McAfee issued an updated (fixed) version that no longer breaks fink. It's version 7.2.1 (a.k.a., 7.2 (v1.1) according to the About Virex window), but I don't know if it's available from any place other then .Mac. You might want to check VersionTracker.

Thanks yellow,

I have that version...

Fink is working quite well in 10.3. If you want to install it now together with Apple's X11, the procedure would be as follow:


1- Install Apple's X11, XCode, X11 SDK.

2- Fink installation:

They recommend bootstrapping from source, starting from fink-full-0.6.0.tar.gz available on fink's sourceforge download page.

3- Run 'fink selfupdate' , to get the latest package descriptions. Check in /sw/etc/fink.conf the "SelfUpdateMethod:" set it to cvs or rsync.

'fink selfupdate-rsync' is the recommended method now, as it's more efficient, and generally the mirrors get updated quicker than anonymous CVS.

4- You may have to run 'fink index' afterwards.

Drat!
 

Well, I started right in from your first link and had fink 0.5.3 "bootstapping" away when I came back to your post and saw that I was supposed to be using 0.6.0!?! So how do I fix that (once the Terminal finishes installing 0.5.3, which it's churning away on right now)?

<red-faced grin>

I guess I should read the directions further before I get too far on these things. I was just so impressed that I could get something downloaded and decompressed with curl and tar!

BTW, is now the time I should switch my default shell to zsh, if I'm going to? And <cringing>, how do I do that???

Thanks sao,
John-o

jiclark,

Fink 0.5.3 in 10.3 will not work. The best way to get a clean install is to download the fink-0.6.0.tar.gz package from http://sf.net/projects/fink/ and run "./bootstrap.sh" to bootstrap your fink installation.

After installing Fink, use it to install the package zsh-4.0.6-1. Then, open NetInfo Manager, in Applications -> Utilities. Click the lock icon and enter your password, click on users and then click your user name. Scroll down to shell, and then click and edit its Value(s) field from /bin/bash to /sw/bin/zsh. Save and quit Netinfo. Go to terminal.app -->Preferences --> write /bin/zsh.

The following would be a good place to start, as Santin shared his /etc/zshrc, /etc/zshenv, ~/.zshrc and ~/.zshenv files in this thread:

http://forums.macosxhints.com/showth...&highlight=zsh

Also, a good read:
http://forums.macosxhints.com/showth...&highlight=zsh

<sigh>

I got 0.6.0 to install, but now when I type "fink selfupdate-rsync", I get "fink: command not found"

?

What now?

John-o

is this in your .cshrc (or equivalent)?

sao, help!
 

I finally got fink running (in tcsh at least). Got selfupdate to run. Now I'm trying to install the zsh package you refer to above, but fink can't find it...

I'm trying:

fink install zsh

or:

fink apt-get install zsh

or either of the above with the '-4.0.6-1' appended to 'zsh'.

What am I doing wrong now?

Thanks a bunch for walking me through this!!

John-o

try and run
that might help ... sao = the answer wiz, so hopefully he can help!

jiclark,

The package zsh is probably in unstable. Enable unstable in your /sw/etc/fink.conf at the Trees: line write unstable/main unstable/crypto, like this:
Then, run:

'fink selfupdate'

'fink index'

After, to see what packages you can install, run:

'fink list'

sao,

When I run the above code, I get:

Trees:: Too many arguments

Man, that is complete greek to me! And why would zsh be in "unstable"??? It's not stable?

It's late here for me (and don't know what it is for you!), so I'm off to slumberland. I appreciate you trying help me sort this out, so I'll look for a reply in the morning...

Thanks again,
John-o

I understand... :)

You need to edit the file 'fink.conf' using an editor like pico. Follow these steps:

From terminal.app run:

% cd (to go to your home directory)

% cd /sw/etc (to go to the /sw/etc directory)

% pico fink.conf (to open the fink.conf file)

Once the file is open, go to the Trees: line and add:

unstable/main and unstable/cryto

After you wrote those lines in the Trees: line it should look like this:
Press Control-o then press Return and then press Control-x to save the file and exit from the pico editor.

Then run 'fink selfupdate' , 'fink index' .

And don't worry, fink zsh package works very well.

still no go...
 

sao,

I've done as you say, but it *still* isn't finding any zsh package to install! What next?

Also,

This is confusing to me, especially since I get mixed messages in the terminal when I run 'fink self-update-rsync'. Do I want my default 'selfupdate' method to be rsync or cvs?!? You say the former, but the info in the Terminal seems to implay the opposite...

This is all very frustrating, I must say.

I haven't given up yet though!!

John-o

jiclark,

Running the command 'fink selfupdate-rsync' will switch you to the new update method and you should run it *only* the first time. Once you have switched, you just run:

'fink selfupdate'

http://fink.sourceforge.net/download/rsync-upgrade.php



Ok, let's see what is the situation now, post the result of:

fink -V
gcc -v
fink list -i rsync

And please, copy/paste here the contents of you /sw/etc/fink.conf file.


PS:
Yes, it is also difficult to learn lithuanian in a couple of days...:D ...not to give up is the right attitude :)

Thanks sao,

Here's the readout for what you asked about:

fink -V:

Package manager version: 0.16.0
Distribution version: 0.6.1.cvs

gcc -v:

Reading specs from /usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/3.3/specs
Thread model: posix
gcc version 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)

fink list -i rsync:

Information about 1401 packages read in 1 seconds.

[Does that all make sense?]

Oh, and here's the output of my fink.conf file:

# Fink configuration, initially created by bootstrap.pl
Basepath: /sw
RootMethod: sudo
Trees: local/main unstable/main unstable/crypto stable/main stable/crypto
local/bootstrap Distribution: 10.3
FetchAltDir: /Downloa
Mirror-cpan: ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/
Mirror-ctan: ftp://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/
Mirror-debian: ftp.debian.org
Mirror-gimp: ftp://ftp.gimp.org/pub
Mirror-gnome: ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/
Mirror-gnu: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu
Mirror-kde: ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/
Mirror-master: http://distfiles.opendarwin.org/
Mirror-rsync: rsync://master.us.finkmirrors.net/finkinfo/
Mirror-sourceforge: http://west.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/
MirrorContinent: nam
MirrorCountry: nam-us
MirrorOrder: MasterFirst
ProxyPassiveFTP: true
Verbose: 1
SelfUpdateMethod: cvs

[SelfUpdateMethod is cvs because I've tried both rsync (first) and cvs, to see if that helped 'find' the zsh package... I will change it back, per your recommendation.]

And thanks, once again for all your help. I shall try to remember that this is like learning lithuanian...

John-o

P.S. I hope my delays in responding are not too annoying. If it would be better for you if we could do this while we're both at the Terminal at the same time, let me know what is a good time period for you. I'm in the Mountain time zone in the US. I think it's GMT -7 now that Daylight S(l)avings Time is over for this year... Do let me know how I can make this process as painless as possible for you!

rsync vs cvs...
 

I just ran 'fink selfupdate-rsync' to change the default back to rsync. The result reminded me why I had tried cvs:

Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /sw/lib/perl5/Fink/SelfUpdate.pm line 528.
Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /sw/lib/perl5/Fink/SelfUpdate.pm line 531.
I will now run the rsync command to retrieve the latest package descriptions.

Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at /sw/lib/perl5/Fink/SelfUpdate.pm line 546.
Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at /sw/lib/perl5/Fink/SelfUpdate.pm line 546.
Warning: unstable/main exists in fink.conf, but is not on rsync server. Skipping.
Warning: unstable/crypto exists in fink.conf, but is not on rsync server. Skipping.
Warning: stable/main exists in fink.conf, but is not on rsync server. Skipping.
Warning: stable/crypto exists in fink.conf, but is not on rsync server. Skipping.
find . -name CVS | xargs rm -rf
rsync -az -q rsync://master.us.finkmirrors.net/finkinfo//VERSION /sw/fink/VERSION
touch stamp-rsync-live && rm -f stamp-cvs-live
Reading package info...
Updating package index... done.
Information about 1401 packages read in 17 seconds.
No packages to install.

The part where it says that 'unstable/main' and 'unstable/crypto' aren't "on rsync server" made me scratch my head...

Awaiting your response [but not until later this afternoon my time],

John-o

Well, line 528-531 look like this:
Which kind of points to your Distribution: line, and I have no problem, and my conf looks like: Note the lack of a FetchAltDir: /Downloa line when compared to your fink.conf.
As well my Distribution: 10.3
line has no local/bootstrap bit.

But I have moved on from the 'bootstrap stage, but it looks like your conf file is messed up.

I was going to suggest some editting here, but since this could be tied in with the bootstrap stuff I will resist.

Sao probably knows what it does (or what it is supposed to do), and can advise when he comes back online.

jiclark,

From man fink.conf :
local/bootstrap should be in the same line as the "Trees: line" as stetner pointed out in his post.

And the default folder for FetchAltDir is /sw/src. Did you changed this yourself (to /Downloa) ?

Also, it seems you don't have installed fink's rsync package. Please, run:

'fink install rsync'

You need the fink rsync package (/sw/bin/rsync) for the rsync update method to work.

And after, set-up the 'SelfUpdateMethod: rsync' in your /sw/etc/fink.conf

Then run:

'fink selfupdate'


PS: It's ok, no pain here...:)

Okay, so how am I supposed to fix those???

Well, 'fink.conf' is fixed (I think)...
 

Here's the content of my fink.conf file now:

# Fink configuration, initially created by bootstrap.pl
Basepath: /sw
RootMethod: sudo
Trees: local/main unstable/main unstable/crypto stable/main stable/crypto local/bootstrap
Distribution: 10.3
FetchAltDir: /sw/src
Mirror-cpan: ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/
Mirror-ctan: ftp://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/
Mirror-debian: ftp.debian.org
Mirror-gimp: ftp://ftp.gimp.org/pub
Mirror-gnome: ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/
Mirror-gnu: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu
Mirror-kde: ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/
Mirror-master: http://distfiles.opendarwin.org/
Mirror-rsync: rsync://master.us.finkmirrors.net/finkinfo/
Mirror-sourceforge: http://west.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/
MirrorContinent: nam
MirrorCountry: nam-us
MirrorOrder: MasterFirst
ProxyPassiveFTP: true
Verbose: 1
SelfUpdateMethod: rsync

Look good?

Now what? I've run 'selfupdate-rsync' and 'fink index'. It seems to find more stuff, but when I run 'fink install zsh', I get "Failed: no package found for specification 'zsh'!"...

jiclark,

Install fink package rsync.

Then, just edit with the pico editor the file /sw/etc/fink.conf as I explained to you in a post above, making sure that local/bootstrap is in the same line as the "Trees: line" and if you want to use the default /sw/src, you can just delete the line "FetchAltDir: /downloa"

Here is my fink.conf file, edit it to look the same if you want:
Then after run:
'fink selfupdate'

sao,

See above. I've done all of those things. It's still not working...

I was a bit late with my post. Ok, your /sw/etc/fink.conf looks good.

Try again just:

'fink selfupdate'

I've done that, three times now...

And, still, no zsh! Am I entering that command correctly?

'fink install zsh'

?

jiclark,

You are right, it seems the zsh package is not there yet in the 10.3 tree. I installed it before updating to 10.3. Sorry for the long exercise.

Well, you can use bash for the moment or go back to tcsh, as you wish.

But your set up now will give you a bigger selection of packages to install and remember the rsync method is updated hourly, so the fink developers keep uploading packages constantly. The zsh package will follow soon, I hope.

Happy finking....:)

I just added the unstable stuff and selfupdated to see if it was there myself, and came to the same conclusion, that it is not...

Gee, thats a bit anti-climactic isn't it.... :)

Ahh well, as Sao says, it will be there eventually and at least you have it working now.

You're kidding, right???
 

;)

Oh, well; educational nonetheless, I guess...

So why can't I just change to zsh right now? I won't be able to use fink from zsh if I don't install it from fink?!?! I can get into zsh right now, can't I?

[All very confusing, as I said before...]

BTW, Why is it that fink only works from within tcsh (for me)? Bash gives me 'command not found' when I enter 'fink'.

I really need to wait until zsh is available through fink, in order to fully switch to zsh and be productive with it? [You can tell I'm confused about this.]

Also, how do I make the hint from this morning about sending man pages to Preview work for me in zsh (once I've got it up and working like it's supposed to)?

Thanks again!!
John-o

Re: You're kidding, right???
 

Yep, panther ships with a zsh, /bin/zsh
Probably because you need a line like in you .profile so that the path to the fink software etc. gets set up right.
Nope, as I said, it is there as /bin/zsh in panther.

Even if you are running zsh, you can still run a script that uses another shell. IE if you take from that hint and put it in a file, make it executable (chmod 755 <filename>) and put it somewhere in your PATH, you can still run it. The first line of the code: tells the OS to use /bin/sh to interpert the script,.

So Douglas...
 

...can you tell me why sao is having me go through such hoops to install zsh through fink??? What advantage will that give me?

Thanks for your interest, and help!

John-o

Also, I can remember many times seeing hints that tell you to "...put [something] in your PATH..."; how exactly do I do that?

Is that the same as putting a line in my '.profile' (in zsh) or my '.cshrc' (in tcsh)?

I feel like I'm just beginning to understand a little bit about all of this...

Maybe!

jiclark

Sorry, my mistake, when I installed zsh from Fink, it was the latest version. Of course you can use /bin/zsh in Panther.

Just write:

source /sw/bin/init.sh

in your .bash_profile

The script works for me from zsh, just make sure you have in your .zshrc:

questions, questions...
 

1) I've noticed that there are two zsh files in /bin:

zsh
zsh-4.1.1

Why is that? Is there a difference? And if there is, how do I choose one over the other?

2) You say:

Just write:

source /sw/bin/init.sh

in your .bash_profile

Where is '.bash_profile', and will this fix things in zsh as well as bash? Where is '.profile' [for zsh] if it's different than 'bash.profile'?

3) What is "your .zshrc" and where is it? And how does it differ from '.profile'??

[Man, I think it's time for bed! My head is beginning to spin a bit from all this!]

I'll come back tomorrow and try and sort this out, once and for all...

<Yeah, right!>

jiclark,

Many of your questions can be answered by making a search in the forums and and I would suggest a bit of study from your side. :)

Have a good rest tonight and tomorrow is a new day!

Could you maybe just answer the first question I had? ...About 'zsh' vs 'zsh-4.1.1'??? I just did a quick search on that, and this was the only thread that came up!

Otherwise, I know I need to do some studying, and I surely will!

Later,
John-o

jiclark,
Maybe you choose /bin/zsh ?

jiclark,

To help you in your studies...what "dot" files do the various shells use?

Re: So Douglas...
 

Well, look at the topic of this thread (panther and fink) :) Sometimes a thread starts and people assume because a question is asked in the thread it is related to that thread.

It probably would have been more appropriate for you to have started a new thread along the lines of 'How do I switch to zsh' then we wouldn't have all though that you wanted to do it with fink.

As to why you would use the fink version of zsh, the reason is that the fink software can be much newer than what apple provides, by the time Apple gets through all its testing etc, the source could be 6 months old. You might need a new feature, or even want to hack at the source code.