Those Still Living in the Pre-OS X World need to "let it go"
 

That's the title of this article

It isn't unreasonable to picture Apple with 15-, 20- or even 25 percent market share. Even with conservative estimates, pure Unix has a sizable market share by itself. And wherever there exists Unix, there exists a potential desktop upon which to place Mac OS X.

I believe that the "hold outs" may be left behind, because they have to be left behind. There is no place for the hold outs in the future Mac OS. For too long, Apple catered to them and that held back the evolution and growth of the Mac as a consumer device and as a business machine. Unix wasn't necessarily the key to Apple's success before the advent of OS X, but now that the Unix die has been cast, OS X is the lock, stock and barrel.

Apple has no choice but to create and fine tune its OS X for future users, only making it "Mac like" enough to pacify the old users until the real market-share growth begins.

"Hold outs," you have a few years to get with the program. You have been warned.

25% market share!!

Now there's an optimist! ;)

I'm not entirely convinced that the attitude expressed in that article actually benefits anyone.

I'm as enthusiastic an OS X guy as there is; I also still have systems running 6.0.8.

I'm getting moved forcibly into the Windows XP world to support customers who have it; I also still run NT 3.51 on a server.

We've got a PalmOS system; I also still use Newtons for some tasks.

There is something to be said for "the right tool for the right job"; and latest and greatest is not always 'it' by default. There is actually room for everybody, in a having and eating cake sort of way. This is not the same as making an OS 9.5 wish list, of course. ;)

i tend to agree with Craig. OSX has created somewhat of a schism in the Mac Community and schisms have a tendency to leave some people disenfranchised. we don't need any internal strife if the platform is going to get to that 25% share.

i would hope that we could all be more gentle with the pre-Mac OS X holdouts. not all Mac users want to be geeks on the bleeding edge. they may need a little coddling to get them to turn the corner. i look at it as an opportunity to prevent defectors to the dark side, and getting all pre-X users on the X-train, rather than creating resentful, disenfranchised users.

I thought the author really took a point or two and developed them to the extreme, which accentuates a certain point of view and provides an opportunity to test one's views against this.

I'm as optimistic as he is about the expansion of the market into the Unix world, but that 25% figure seems a little high. But who knows?

His comments about veteran Mac users seem extreme, but he is pointing out a reality that some still seem to want to deny: that OS X is here to stay, and the development of Mac OS 9 is over--except to work better as Classic. There's no need to be "in your face" about this, of course.

OTOH, it seems there really is no crisis yet for those who just can't stomach OS X. OS 9 still works well, and in time, the kinds of configurability most of them want will come to pass--either from Apple or from 3rd party providers. There doesn't seem to be an either-or choice to make yet--especially as long as new Macs continue to be able to boot up in OS 9. I'm all for saying "hang in there and wait it out a bit longer" to those who feel disenfranchised.

OS X is here to stay.
 

I would almost agree with this "Get into the car or get out of the way" attitude, but I see those holdouts as a severe minority. OS X is easy enough to use for any day-to-day user, and in my opinion easier than windows. The holdouts are mostly people who fear OS X because of it's unix belly. Once they spend some time with it they'll come around.

But in the long term, OS X is here to stay. Witness the extremely rapid development of software for X. In the early days of Apple (Oh, how I miss those days!) it could take years to get your favorite application, and it was a complaint of all PC users that there wasn't enough programs for a Mac. Odd, when most of us got our first lessons in programming on an Apple IIc.

Now in what, about a year and a half- we already have tons of software, and in a month or two ALL of the important software will be X-able. Plus, any programmer who knows C+ or Java has the tools needed to build OS X applications. How's that for a brand new OS?

The important thing for the holdouts to know is that OS X is just as easy to use as 9.x.x but IN ADDITION is totally Geek-able. Most of them will come around

Mac OS 3.1 on a Mac Plus can kick any new computers @$$ in start up times. Beat like 5 seconds on your dual gig g4.

I'm one of those curmudgeonly holdouts.

Our griping about MacOS X sometimes improves the quality of the current product, guys. Were it not for a lot of screaming and shouting from folks like me, your OS X environment might well --

• have a Desktop onto which you cannot move or save a file. An alias at best;

• have no view options but column view;

• give you no option for having your drives (hard drives, removables) appear on your Desktop;

• lack AppleTalk capability except for the ASIP variety;

• support considerably fewer printers;

• sport an Apple icon but no Apple menu at all;

• provide few if any useful contextual-menu items;


etc etc... some of the things on this list may not be things you care about, but as long as the options and opportunities under MacOS X are on the increase, would you not agree that this is a good thing?

Are there any of the following features that you'd actively HATE to see as options under MacOS X?

• conventional list view instead of column view in Open, Save, and Save As dialog boxes if you wish;

• support for serial printers for serial-era Macs;

• an Apple Menu that lets you customize its contents;

• spring-loaded folders (or better yet, PopupFolder for MacOS X);

• A show/hide option for the Dock that lets you turn it completely off or toggle it on and off with a keystroke like the Control Strip;

• Support for popular CardBus cards used in PowerBooks;

• Platinum theme in lieu of Aqua;

• Restoring Command-N for New Folder and Command-Y to put away folders dragged out onto Desktop / eject removable media;


So how about some of you rethink that "Oh shaddup, quit living in the past" reaction you go into every time someone says they miss this or that feature of the traditional MacOS, hmm?

Having personally worked with an Apple engineer in that particular area, I can verify that no screaming and shouting were required. Just a willingness to work through some of the problems, and provide accurate and fairly complete test data. I don't that is true of some of the other areas mentioned as well.

Asking and being willing to pitch in works; screaming and shouting produces a lot of hoarse and deaf people.

My 2¢.

I'd hate to see these two, partially. I wouldn't mind a platinum theme being a choice for those people that like it more, but I'd stick with Aqua, and I think that should be the default for new computers (looks snazzier, it has a "new and improved" feel that many new users like, as opposed to the slightly drab platinum theme).

Also, I use command-n for new windows much more often than new folders, especially when using column view. I wouldn't mind seeing command-y come back for ejecting drives, but I like having the standard (in every other program) command-z undo moves, etc.

NOT A FLAME WAR!
 

Yeek - this is like dealing with gunpowder due to the inflammatory thread topic... BUUUUUT

I think a lot of the improvements that have come into X since the Beta days (and before) have come from people refusing to make the switch from 9 before their favourite feature is implemented.

However, I would have to say that I reckon the MAJORITY have come from people using OS X and finding something missing, or finding that what they thought was a bad idea (the <cmd>+<n> shortcut reassignment, for example) was actually really sensible when they experienced it in context.

In any case, I think clamouring for the restoration of legacy shortcuts is fairly silly - if anything, let's clamour for CONSISTENT shortcuts among apps, or even (shock) CUSTOMISABLE shortcuts!

Regardless, I do believe that the more people that use OS X regularly, the more sensible and cogent the development ideas will become. Arguing that "we should have the control strip back" kind of goes against the idea of the new OS. Control Strip made sense in OS 9, but we're not in OS 9 any more, Toto.

I think we should all be embracing OS X as a new system, and looking for ways to improve OS X - realising that "Improving OS X" and "making it more like OS 9" are not necessarily the same thing...

Okay, rant over. Nothing to see here! Move along!

:D :D :D

OSX or bust....
 

I bought a new G4 (733) right after they "bumped" them a few months back. While I'm definitely ready to "learn" OS X and get along with it, for most things, I fear, it won't do me much good.

While I realize that there is OS X-native software being made, I already have Photoshop, Quark, Office 98, and Dreamweaver, all of which run just fine in OS 9. That's great that there is Office for OS X now, but I don't make THAT much money that I'm going to just start replacing applications that aren't necessarily obsolete. I mean, that's a pretty big amount of invested money on all of those programs!

Does that make sense?

I'm having some fun playing with the new features of OS X, but I don't think I'll be running out and getting a whole new suite of applications to do what I'm already doing in OS 9....

G.--

Just wanted to say that we don't approve of schisms here at macosxhints...everyone is just a mac user like everyone else...we want to avoid the "you guys said this" and "we are right because" attitude....there are many places on the net to go find just that sort of thing, and it simply gets in the way of constructive discussion.

This is, after macOSX hints.com....we are basically here to help people who already are using or intend to use OSX...not to discuss whether there should be an OSX, that's a foregone conclusion.

additionally, as you must have read when you registered, we are interested in an honest discussion of problems with OSX, where solutions or workarounds are sought, rather than mounting tireless crusades against OSX or Apple. We are solution-oriented.

However, I know this is the coat room...so...uh....carry on I guess, but try to keep our side/your side thinking to a minimum.

sorry, I seem to have unintentionally derailed this thread...I posted my last post before I realized I was in the coat room, so went back and edited it somewhat. I most certainly was not directing my comments to the most recent poster, but to the thread in general. I was trying to forestall a miniflame squabble before it got any bigger. Of course, I did that with my usual hot air, so not sure that helped any.

please, carry on.


:D

I'm big on X. I love it. I am quite nearly to the point where I can ditch Classic altogether.
What amazes me is the amount of folks (an admittedly small bunch) who are just being unreasonable about it. Example: last month, a very irate reader wrote into MacAddict. He was responding to the title article, "Time to Switch?" His tirade went along the lines of "since when are you in the business of telling users what to do? Cancel my subscription."
I am beginning to think there are quite a few similarities between some Mac users and Lutherans. "Change?!? Wha? WHY!?!? No change! Change BAAAAD!"
The nature of technology is that it moves. It grows. For the most part, you can resist for a while, but there will come a day when you WILL be left behind. Apple cannot please everyone. Apple is sucessfully pulling off a nearly impossible hat trick: pulling the rug out from under all of us and TOTALLY changing the OS, which is, let's face it, the cornerstone of the appeal in the Apple Market. Apple is not losing customers... or, if they are, they are being replaced as soon as those luddites jump ship. The market is opening. Good for Apple means good for us.
So, to that guy who was soooooo desperately offended by MacAddicts suggestion: the gangway is over there. Enjoy the good ship XP. No one will shanghai you. No one will push you off the boat. Hell, no one will even note your departure.

Re: OSX or bust....
 

Hi G. :) Welcome!

I'm having some fun playing with the new features of OS X, but I don't think I'll be running out and getting a whole new suite of applications to do what I'm already doing in OS 9....

Makes perfect sense to me, and the good news is that Apple still provides OS 9 on all its new computers, if you've a notion to buy one. Getting one's software and peripherals up to snuff for OS X can cost a bundle, depending on what one uses, of course. Updates like Golive 6.0 make it easy, however, as they run very well on both OS 9 and OS X. Other companies have made sure they get you to pay for both an OS 9 and OS X version . . . no names mentioned. ;)

Of course, even running OS 9, one eventually upgrades all of the software used for work. That's a good time to switch over to OS X. For most of us, there was a loonngg transition of running some apps in X, and others in Classic. It's a tolerable situation, for the most part, depending on what apps we're talking about. I'm pretty much all-X now, and it's a much better situation for me.

Phil

actually, since Retrospect OSX version came out, I have no reason at all to boot from 9. I did so last weekend due to an unrelated thing (was trying to fax something) and gawd! I wanted to log back in immediately.
Still on classic with some apps, but they work fine. I have to wait for 10.1.4 to use my fujitsu dynaMO, but that's the only hangup thus far.

this is interesting, because i find the divisions w/in the mac world as pointless as the rest of you.
i'm currently still running 9, but i'm intensely curious about x.
why?

because i know x is the future. i want x. i want x and i want _speed_ and i want native apps.

eventually, i'll be able to get all that.
and eventually, i'll have the money to afford it.

(looks more and more like around september i'll have all three)
and i'm excited about it.
sure, there are features i'm going to miss.
i use popup folders CONSTANTLY.
i use a variety of k-schemes, and i'm going to miss the variety.
i use a very customized apple menu,
but unlike most people, my customization is to make it smaller.
so i don't care.

but overall, i think that the more options x has,
the more flexible it is, both for the unix gang and the grandma9 gang,
the better off we all are.

and the better off we all are, the better off apple is.
(despite that some woudl argue the opposite).

go apple go.
i'm not resisting, i'm just waiting.

:)
poocat.

Well Phil, part of my desire to take the OS X plunge is from talking with you (somewhere else ;) ). I start my new job next Monday and should have all sorts of free time now, and I'm ready to spend it a) out in the garden and b) with my Linux box and my G4 with OS X. I'm SURE I'll be bothering the heck out of you folks then... :)

G.--

Hey poocat, no worries..

Pop-up folders probably coming with 10.2 (I'm taking bets on MWNY, but then, the Lions are my second favorite NFL team, and I believe they'll turn it around any time now)

Duality is a great tool for installing themes, and though kaleidoscope still has more, people are making new ones all the time.

FruitMenu gives you great customization options for the apple menu, I'd say even better than OS 9.

Oh, and to ahunter3 and others, sorry if my last post was incendiary, so to speak. I forget we're all Mac users here :).

Yeah, really. No incendiaries; try to keep it to fragmentation grenades. :D

Apple says they will be previewing 10.2 at WWDC. That makes a July release sound pretty plausible.

"Dear Developer,

On May 6, WWDC 2002 attendees will be the first to explore the
powerful new capabilities of the next major release of Mac OS X."